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SiWi's School for the helpful use of the Winds Magic to overcome your foes!

13

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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,144Registered Users

    thanks for doing this, SiWi! Interesting stuff and a good read.

    MGT = Magic the Gathering

    Thanks you.

    @Qliphoth
    I never really played it, but I know some cards (and systems which imitate it) and like the concept of flavour text.

    @ikki
    I would love to see what you mean "filth-catapult magic" for the greenskins, since I never seen or any description what defensive buildings do (thou according to more recent statements, it could be that they simply improve the garrison) .

    I doubt that the Anvil of Doom will a defence, since it is cleary use mobile(TT and lore) as artillery and it is a mount option for a runelord.
    I doubt that a runelord will be demoted to be a garrison.
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  • SetrusSetrus Senior Member SwedenPosts: 18,363Registered Users
    @SiWi here you go. :)

    Apparently it's also adding a garrison, it's just not shown in this version of the game.
    image

    I wonder how the dungball works...how dangerous is a dungball!? :lol:

    Doesn't seem to be something magical to me though...
  • DalakhDalakh Senior Member FrancePosts: 1,937Registered Users
    Setrus said:

    @SiWi here you go. :)

    Apparently it's also adding a garrison, it's just not shown in this version of the game.
    image

    I wonder how the dungball works...how dangerous is a dungball!? :lol:

    Doesn't seem to be something magical to me though...

    LOOOL :D how did I miss that ? It's hilarious, such Greenskin, very smart.
    "We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

    — Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,144Registered Users
    Setrus said:

    @SiWi here you go. :)

    Apparently it's also adding a garrison, it's just not shown in this version of the game.
    image

    I wonder how the dungball works...how dangerous is a dungball!? :lol:

    Doesn't seem to be something magical to me though...

    Thanks for the picture.
    Not quite magical thou this is rather less a argument for Anvil of doom being a defence tower.
    ;)
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,144Registered Users
    Skaven magic
    General:
    The skaven don’t use the 8 main lore’s, but have 2 lore’s on they own. They are the lore of Ruin and the lore of Plague. One thing special about Skaven magic is, that they Lord level characters, the “Grey Seer” can those between both of them at the same time.
    It is also a 7th edition Lore, which means that they lack a “lore attribute” and no signature spells but they do have a 13th spell which compensate for this lack, me thinks.

    Lore of Ruin:

    Skitterleap
    Now you see me, now you don’t.

    TT:
    Augment spell. The caster (not the Vermin lord) or a friendly infantry model within 12 inches, can be teleported to anywhere on the battlefield.
    Cost: 5+.

    TW:
    We will most defiantly see more restrictions in TW in terms of range and where to place the character. Having said that, this will be a useful tool, if use carefully. Can be very powerful in sieges and will probably case a lot “fire and forget” action in skirmish and multiplayer battles.


    Warplighting
    A: Have you seen the Warplight?
    B: ARGGGGGGGGG!!!
    A: I take this as a yes.

    TT:
    Damage spell with 24 inches range. Causes D6 hits with strength 5 and in case the dice shows a 1, the caster suffers a strength 5 hit.
    Cost: 6+.

    TW:
    Good “handgun” range and pretty good damage. It comes with a bit of risk attached, which makes it a potential heartbreaker.

    Howling Warpgale
    Never say to a skaven “blow me”. Never.

    TT:
    Hex. All flyers are grounded and must use basic movement range (which s often VERY low). All enemy range weapons suffer a -1 on the hit roll.
    Cast: 7+.

    TW:
    This spell need to be nerfed. It has to be nerfed in terms of area of effect, since it would be unthinkable to me that CA would allow one skaven mage in the corner of a TW map (which are far bigger that TT fileds) and shut down all enemy flyers.
    Nevertheless, this spell will be very important for the Skaven and a big annoyance for everyone else.
    The skaven do not have flyers themselves and while they do have good range weapons, it will help to neutralize and kill enemy flyers, when you can attack them on the ground.
    The other effect, crippling enemy range, will help a lot to keep the skaven hordes alive.

    Death Frenzy
    EXTERMINATE! ANNILATE! DESTROY!

    TT:
    Augment spell with 18 inches range. The unit gets the rule “frenzy”* but gets 2 extra attacks instead of 1. Loses D6 wound each round without armour saves. The spell is lost, when you lose a combat.
    *”Frenzy” means that you gain an extra attack, are “immune to psychology” (ignore fear/terror). All units with at least one model with “frenzy” has to try to attack if possible, unless it passes are moral test. When it beats an enemy unit, it has to either “follow” or “overrun”.
    Units with hand weapon and shield don’t get to parry (6+ ward save).
    Cost: 9+.

    TW:
    An interesting spell, but isn’t a no brainer. Firsts, lets talk about the implantation of “frenzy” in general. BI had already berserkers with an ability to (likely) go into a mode where they simply attack the nearest enemy and made great damage. Now CA has told us that they want to reduce active abilities, so it could be that we see a very close to the TT.
    You have full control as long the unit is far away from the enemy, but as they come closer, they will have to pass moral test and if they fail, they charge the next enemy. If they lose a combat, aka they get broken, they lose the rule.
    For the spell this is less of a problem, since you can and should only cast it right before the fight.
    It will likely boost your close combat abilities, perhaps improve damage.
    As for the tactical use, this is a spell you don’t want to use on your best units, since the damage you get does hurt you. Luckily for you, the skaven have a lot of cannon fodder, which could use the spell in order to break enemy lines.

    Scorch
    For the lovers of “scorch earth” tactics, the perfect spell.

    TT:
    Damage spell with a small round template (3 inches). All models under the template suffer 4 strength, which count as flaming. If a unit lost a model, they have to take a panic test.
    Cost:10+.

    TT:
    This isn’t a bad spell, but it suffers from the fact that 7th edition spells don’t have upgrade version, thou I would expect that CA will fix that. Something interesting is the fact that this spell, unlike other templates, doesn’t scatter, which makes it more reliable (a word rarely use with skaven) that those spell.
    The damage itself is good, thou not spectacular and the ability to probably lower moral will come handy.


    Cracks Call
    “The Crack is calling; it is really calling, on the battlefield tonight!”
    “Ouch Ouch Ouch Ouch…”

    TT:
    Damage spell. You draw a line of 4D6 from the caster in a direction of your choosing. Every model hit, must pass an innovative test or dies.
    Warmachines and Chariots need to pass a 5+ or die.

    TW:
    Another “cannon ball” spell! As establish before, I think they will be very strong in general and this one could be one of the strongest. Instant dead is always nice, thou it doesn’t ignore ward or armour saves (unless GW updated it somewhere). We will see if Warmachines/Chariots have a 33% survival rate or not.
    As for something our all favourite forum pet-rat suggested, I don’t see the crack staying as obstacle. Partly because of technical reason, but also the amount of exploits are too high.
    When an enemy army has to march to you, you have too much time to make too many cracks and in many sieges, this could then mean that a gate (and it is possible that we only have one gate this time).

    Conclusion:
    Very good variety of spells, some of them have the danger of blowing into your face, but are worth the risk. Especially damage wise, you have it all: precise single damage, AE damage and cannon ball damage.
    But also the “tactical” spells like “Skitterleap” or “Howling Warpgale” have great potential and will most likely critical tools in a hand of a competent commander.
    The downsides of a 7th edition lore, matters little for the Lord level Grey Seer but probably more to the hero level guys. Since it means probably that your skill tree will be short, unless CA makes more buffing skills, which we know exist in the lore of death. On the bright side: you can use the free points for other things.
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  • DwarfMasterRaceDwarfMasterRace Posts: 1,960Registered Users
    Nice thread mate, it is good to see people doing some real work and effort for the good of the community. Very much appreciated. :smile:
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,144Registered Users
    Lore of Plague

    Pestilent Breath
    He should really brush his teeth.

    TT:
    It is a damage spell, which use either the flame template starting from the caster or if he is in close combat makes D6 hits. These have strength 2 and don’t allow for armour saves
    Cost: 5+

    TW:
    A good damage spell, if use against the best armoured troops. Against State troops(except Great swords) the damage will be kinda “meh”, despite the potential of the flamethrower.
    Speaking of which, I don’t see the game making a difference between melee or not, so you always will have the flamethrower.
    The flamethrower effect will make this spell very useful during sieges, no matter offence or defence. You can easily clear or hold gate houses with this or walls.

    Bless with Filth
    Maybe you shouldn’t have cleaned your weapons that much, before the battle.

    TT:
    Augment spell with 12 inches range. Friendly unit gains “poison attacks”, if they already have the rule, the spell improves it to 5+.
    Cost: 7+

    TW:
    My guess it that “poison” will work like classical poison, aka if you hit an enemy with it, the will start losing HP passively for an amount of time. When this is the case, it would be wise to use this on units which have not enough weapon damage to effectively kill the enemy they face.
    Example: clan rats with weapon damage 10 fight longbeards with 35 health each, poison could greatly help to defeat them.
    On the other hand: if your stormvermine with weapon damage 18, face goblins with 16 health, the spell would be a waste.

    Wither
    Maybe you should have spent the money on a life insurance, instead on healthcare.

    TT:
    Hex spell with 12 inches range. One enemy unit loses 1 toughness. Last till the end of the game. If a model is down to toughness 0, it is removed as casualty.
    Cost: 8+

    TW:
    On the core, we are looking in a hex spell with short range, which lowers defence/health for close combat mostly (the range isn’t good enough for real range combat support). While it maybe will stay a permanent debuff (through the lack of dispel unlikely), I don’t think we will see that this spell could kill entire units, when they hit toughness 0.

    Vermintide
    Rats, Rats everywhere…

    TT:
    Summons a large template (5 inches) that moves 4D6 inches away from the caster, which never can be hit. All units touch suffers 3D6 hits with strength 2. When use in close combat, no template is not use, but just suffers 3D6 hits.
    Cost: 8+

    TW:
    This is an AE spell which would prove well against the worse armour units. Thou it is also a “cannon ball” spell. Not in a classical sense, but you could use it to flank shot and hit a couple units and potential destroy a flank.
    Thou things will be different, if the rats summon where actually creatures, which could get stuck in a unit, but my guess is that this is not going to happen.

    Cloud of Corruption
    Who farted?

    TT:
    Every unit in 12 inches range must roll a D6. Non skaven units are affected on a 2+. Skaven units are affected on a 4+, clan Pestilens on a 5+. D6 Hits with strength 5, no armour saves
    Cost: 11+

    TW:
    This is a bit of a tricky one. First: it won’t help you in a Skaven civil war, unless you focus on clan pestilens units.
    Second: it does still hurt your unit, if they are close to the caster. The damage is pretty good against elite units with high armour. So if you use it when your lesser units are fighting elite units, the trade could be worth it.


    Plague
    We don’t know the colour of this plague, so I will call it Rat-Plague.

    TT:
    Damage spell with 18 inches range. Every model in the unit must pass a toughness test or suffers a wound without armour save. When cast into a close combat, all units are hit.
    After the casualties are removed, roll a D6.
    On 1, the spell back fires can the opponent choose the next target, within 12 inches.
    2-4 the spell just ends.
    5-6 you can choose the next unit within 12 inches. The same effects as before apply.
    Cost: 13+

    TW:
    This can be a devastating spell, thou again, not without risk. You can take out the toughest units with this spell and either forces your enemy to spread his army or to suffer terrible loses, when lucky and this spell stays close to the TT.

    Conclusion:
    This is not a bad Lore, but it is a Lore where you have to pay a price. It has a lot of AE and hard hitting AE, but has also a fair amount of risk for you own troops so you may want to keep skaven slaves or other cannon fodder units in armies with this lore.

    The Dreaded Thirteenth Spell:
    13 is not everyone lucky number…

    TT:
    Damage Spell with 24 inches range, against enemy infantry units. Roll 4D6 and take so many enemy models away as dead and if the number is bigger than the number of enemies create a new unit of clanrats, under your control.
    If the number is smaller, the clan rats just die. No saves of any kind allowed.
    Cost: 25+.

    TW:
    There a number of spell in the TT, able to make devastating damage. There are some spells which can give you more men. This spell does both. No protection against it, the only thing which holds it down, is it high energy cost. One detail in functionally would be interesting: as explamed, in the TT you both wipe a unit out and get a new unit or all the mutated clan rats are instant dead. For the game I hope we see always the mutation of some solider, followed by fighting in the unit, where the clan rats fight against they former comrade for survival.
    This is the ultimate spell of the skaven indeed.
    This brings me to my next point:
    This spell can be chosen in the TT by all Grey Seer and Vermine Lords(for balance issue, probably no in the game, outside maybe special rewards). For the game I would assume that it is at the very end of the two skaven lores and one perhaps needs considerable amounts of skill points in both of them to unlock and forces the Grey Seer/Vermine Lord to spend a lot of points getting there.
    But even if this true, the points spend are not lost, both Lore’s have excellent spells and the 13th spell is worth almost any price.


    Before I take on the potential magical LL of the Skaven, I will revisit Balthasar Gelt first, since there were a couple of interesting information in the last video.
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,144Registered Users
    edited February 2016
    Revisiting Balthasar Gelt:
    Let’s start by comparison his stats with that of Karl Franz:
    Disclaimer: of course I’m looking at “work in progress” and hence some of the stats may only be place holder or simply get adjusted.

    Karl Franz = Balthasar Gelt



    And right here we already have a big surprise. Level 3 Gelt trumps level 11 Karl Franz, with some gear and skilled as warrior, in the category of “melee attack”, beating his 67, with whopping 71. CA seems to like Gelt really well…
    Now this is the only category he does win, it is nevertheless astonishing.
    Some of the categories are obscure by the fact that Karl Franz is riding a Pegasus, and while it appears after the Ahzag video, that mounts wouldn’t increase health and such, it most defiantly increases speed and charge bonus.
    Over all, he can hold his own in terms of making damage in melee, but can’t hope to endure as much as Karl Franz, who clearly wins in all defence categories and while some may be influence by his level ups (some can be seen in the video), I don’t think that he gain 100+ armour.

    But now let’s take a look at the gear he can have.

    “The Amulet of the Golden Sea”:

    It doesn’t copy the TT rules, of getting better with the number of enemy wizards, but the basic spirit stays the same. It gives him a nice bit of Magic resistance. 15% means that any spell which would hurt him with 100 HP, now only hurts 85 HP.
    Further more; CA gave it melee defence, which is nice, but hardly more.
    On the campaign, he gains two things: defence against enemy heroes, which again, goes with the theme of the item, but not the exact function and it fights corruption of any kind.

    In terms of game play, I think this is a good item, since I helps to keep Balthasar safe, battlefield wise or on the campaign map.

    In terms of Design, we can see that CA doesn’t exactly translates the TT rules, but keeps the spirit and adds new effects, which enhances mostly the main function (this case: keeping Gelt alive), but have no real roots in the TT rules.

    “Cloak of Molten Metal”:


    While one could argue that the Missile Resistance is about 41% too low (3+ Ward Save would allude to 66%), it does keep the principle of the item.
    Defending Gelt against enemy range and ones again, addition melee defence as bonus.

    Campaign wise, we also gain protection against enemy heroes, which goes with the theme of the item.

    This is very close to the TT, major difference being that it does reduce the damage flat and not by chance (you could roll three ones in the TT…). Thou one can make the argument that the TT buff is stronger, I think 66% missile resistance would be a bit much and any enemy will be angry enough that he need 25 % more range to concentrate on Gelt. This does help him a lot, since he will be a magnet for enemy range, since he will not be in close combat himself, if he can avoid it.

    “Staff of Voltan”:


    This one works pretty different as in the TT. Instead of passively improving the casting likeliness, it gives an active ability to use more winds of magic. We don’t know exactly if only he can use those winds or other characters of his army can use them as well, but base on what I see (“target: self”), my guess is that those are only for him.
    This ability would mean that he could use sooner big spells as opponents or win an “attrition” war against another mage.
    What made me chuckle and has nothing to do with TT rules, is the fact that the staff actually also improves melee attack. I can’t help myself and smile by the though that the staff makes him better in melee.

    The Campaign effects of this are both interesting and fitting. A battle wizard more and more experience for those recruited in the province where he is. Combine with the actually offices of Patriarch (which ironically enough, he can have 5 level before the staff), he would be a serious buff for new recruited wizards.

    Loremaster, Lore of Metal:


    This is perhaps the most telling from all.
    First we learn that “Loremaster” relative common special rues for LL’s) will not increase the power, but reduce the cooldown of spells.
    I personally dislikes this a bit. It is less universal useful; since spamming spells only works with enough energy, while I would imagine that there is always enough energy to cast something. Nevertheless, if enough energy is there, a loremaster will out cast an enemy caster.
    Second we learn that the speculations were accurate: ever wizard can learn every spell of the lore he/she has. Otherwise, “loremaster” would have done what it does in the TT: give you every spell of a lore.
    They might have a limit how many they can with them in a battle (early interview allude that characters will have limited skill slots), but they can learn every single one of them.
    Thirdly, at least surprising: all spells of the TT are there and no new ones.

    Conclusion:
    I think we learnt a lot through the last video. On the topic on how spell general work, how they are design in certain question and how CA transtlates the items: keeping the spirit, but also adding, mostly minor, effects which don’t necessary have something to do with the TT rules.
    Also some question are answered in terms of details of spells/caster.

    PS: I realize by going back, that my LL review where much broader back then and less detail as the more recent ones.


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  • ThanquolThanquol Senior Member SkavenblightPosts: 2,017Registered Users
    Did this Manling just prioritize a foolish shiny Manling mage-man before the post about my own prostigous self? Come-come Boneripper we must pay-see this Manling a visit and show-see him the error of his ways, in a most pain-screamful way.
    "Fear me for I am Grey Seer Thanqol, Greatest TWW player in all of Skavendom."

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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,144Registered Users
    @Grey Seer Thanquol
    The sentence I have prepare in my mind for your preview will now be even more delicious...
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  • ErminazErminaz Senior Member Las Vegas, Nevada, USAPosts: 5,559Registered Users
    Great information SiWi.
    Tacitus Quotes:
    Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.

    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
    The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.

    I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
  • IchonIchon Senior Member Posts: 4,751Registered Users
    edited February 2016
    I am a bit underwhelmed by what I've seen of the magic spells so far. Far weaker than in TT yet there are far more units in typical TW battle than on TT so magic really is going to be much less relevant.

    Maybe the spell powers shown so far are placeholders or grow in strength significantly as a caster gains levels but so far levels seem to simply give reductions of casting speed which I REALLY dislike. If anything simply make the first spells last longer as adding more reasons to click seems bad design as it becomes really annoying to have 2-3 casters that can each cast every 30 seconds a new spell but the previous spells expire also every 20 seconds... maybe if there is a way to set it so a caster continually casts the same spell on a particular unit or in a particular area of effect but other wise- not a good system in my opinion. Would be much better if a spell gained +5 seconds every 5 levels or something so starting at 10 seconds and reaching up to 40 seconds at level 30.

    How spells drain mana and how replenish also hasn't been explained very well. Is there a total amount of mana available that can be exhausted or more a max mana in use cap depending on winds of magic? IE will there be 500 mana available with heavy winds of magic and spells have a cost like 25 points or 50 points depending on the spell? In the case having faster casting times IS quite favorable to the side with higher level casters as they might be able to use 400 of the available 500 mana. If there is a max amount of mana available for spells IN PLAY for each side of a battle then reduced time to cast is a very small advantage if an advantage at all. So if winds of magic are heavy and 500 mana is available but each side can only use 250 mana for spells in play then if 3 casters cast 150 worth mana of spells with 20 seconds duration and then can cast the next round of spells 2 seconds faster... then only 2 of the 3 can cast the next round of spells at that precise moment else 150 + 150 is above 250 allowed yet the 3rd caster only has to wait 2 seconds for the 1st round spell to expire to then cast again...

    Needs more explanation but so far I don't like how it seems to be set up with rapid expiration and small boosts or hexes- far less than available via Lord/Army/Hero skill tree's and XP. That means the deeper into a campaign the less useful magic actually becomes since it affects overall lower amount of stats per unit.
    YouTube, it takes over your mind and guides you to strange places like tutorials on how to talk to a giraffe.
  • ErminazErminaz Senior Member Las Vegas, Nevada, USAPosts: 5,559Registered Users
    edited February 2016
    @Ichon I think the reason the spells were reduced in power is because there doesn't appear to be anyway to dispel the magic. I haven't seen anything like a dispel scroll or dispel dice type mechanic in the game, only the limitation of a magic pool which is sort of what channeling power was in the TT.

    Or do you think that spells like Purple Sun of Xereus at the power level of the TT would be okay to freely cast without the enemy having a chance to stop it? I honestly want to know your thoughts on this.
    Tacitus Quotes:
    Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
    They plunder, they slaughter, and they steal: this they falsely name Empire, and where they make a wasteland, they call it peace.

    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges.
    The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.

    I found Rome a city of filth covered marble and left it a pile of rubble. - Me
  • dorfdorf Senior Member Posts: 209Registered Users
    Erminaz said:

    @Ichon I think the reason the spells were reduced in power is because there doesn't appear to be anyway to dispel the magic. I haven't seen anything like a dispel scroll or dispel dice type mechanic in the game, only the limitation of a magic pool which is sort of what channeling power was in the TT.

    Or do you think that spells like Purple Sun of Xereus at the power level of the TT would be okay to freely cast without the enemy having a chance to stop it? I honestly want to know your thoughts on this.

    I get the feeling (and hope) that there will be a way to dispel. I think it might be a button for wizard units, (like a loose formation or fire at will button on the UI) that put them in a battle stance that actively blocks enemy magic. We still don't know how the winds of magic in a battle work either. Will each side have their own supply/meter or will it be shared between the sides? If each side has a meter, maybe dispelling just actively drains the enemy magic pool in lieu of casting any spells yourself.
  • IchonIchon Senior Member Posts: 4,751Registered Users
    Erminaz said:

    @Ichon I think the reason the spells were reduced in power is because there doesn't appear to be anyway to dispel the magic. I haven't seen anything like a dispel scroll or dispel dice type mechanic in the game, only the limitation of a magic pool which is sort of what channeling power was in the TT.

    Or do you think that spells like Purple Sun of Xereus at the power level of the TT would be okay to freely cast without the enemy having a chance to stop it? I honestly want to know your thoughts on this.

    In TT there were almost always some spells that would get through every round and more often than not some of the smaller hex/boost spells that an opponent decided were relatively safer to ignore. So certainly lack of dispel dice is an issue but in my opinion almost completely countered by the fact that most TT battles that the spells were designed for had half or fewer units than the average 20 vs 20 TW battle.

    Also theoretically TT limited max mana by power dice- bringing more than 2 casters was very rarely a good spent of points except for a couple of the more magically dependent armies like VC (though even there often a result of Vampires basically being level 1 casters by default).

    The frequency of Purple Sun of Xereus is already limited by Winds of Magic... and could easily be even more limited if agents had campaign map abilities to lower the Winds of Magic... which I think we've already seen demonstrated.

    Also I can't really judge the deadliness of the high end vortex spells. We've seen just a couple demonstrations and they seem to miss a fair amount more often than in TT because in TW units move around ALOT more.

    My main concern is the lower level spells which so far seem nearly useless.

    YouTube, it takes over your mind and guides you to strange places like tutorials on how to talk to a giraffe.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,144Registered Users
    @Ichon
    I would agree that the augment/hex spells right now look under performing (the damage spell looked powerful in the trailers we saw). And the fact that the magic appears to be balance on using them all 30 seconds is not necessary to my liking either.

    But... I could think of a couple of reasons for that which not make it all good, but at least explain it:
    As @Erminaz mentioned, the lack of dispel is a problem, since now you almost certainly know you will get the spell (we know there can be "miscast", but don't know if it has TT like consequences). And a lot of spells are too strong if you KNOW you "always" have them, without that the enemy could disturb those (fun fact: in my vision thread I talked greatly how important the "magic defence" aspect is from a strategy perspective in Warhammer TT).
    Another reason I could think of is simple: CA doesn't want caster to be too inactive. If the game would be balance on casting all 2-4 minutes (and the power levels with that)., then what does the caster do in the meantime? The vast majority of them aren't good in melee (thou at least Gelt, can hurt people attack him) and having your heroes/lords/LL's stand there and maybe cast something all 2 minutes probably felt under whelming.
    Finally: skill points. Looking at the last video and the handling of Karl Franz Pegasus, it appears that everything can be upgraded 3 times (could be a accident, since in the TT a peagsus has also two upgrades). So perhaps the spells get powerful with the tiers or scale otherwise.

    As for energy: I remember a bit of conflicted statements in the earlier phase and for that reason I'm unsure how they handle it as well.
    But judging how it works in the TT, I would assume that the strength of the winds of magic determinants the regeneration rate of "mana" and that we start with relative little mana (base on a side sentence of the black fire pass video) and build then up.
    That regernation is a thing, is evident through the bonus the offices of "supreme Patriarch" (hopefully only available for wizards), gives.
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  • IchonIchon Senior Member Posts: 4,751Registered Users
    SiWi said:


    As for energy: I remember a bit of conflicted statements in the earlier phase and for that reason I'm unsure how they handle it as well.
    But judging how it works in the TT, I would assume that the strength of the winds of magic determinants the regeneration rate of "mana" and that we start with relative little mana (base on a side sentence of the black fire pass video) and build then up.
    That regernation is a thing, is evident through the bonus the offices of "supreme Patriarch" (hopefully only available for wizards), gives.

    Yeah I noticed that is appears mana pool grows based on winds of magic but then the lower casting times making even less sense! So I discounted that since we've seen lower casting times in more than 1 video but the regeneration only recently. Unless the mana generation is almost always going to be so fast 1 caster can always start casting right away and only when winds of magic are high will there ever been enough mana for more than 1 caster to be in play.

    Basically we don't know enough yet but the system so far doesn't appear very fluid or appealing to me.

    As for CA wanting casters to be 'busy' huh, if that is really a reason that seems good to CA or you for suggesting it I can't understand it. That conflicts with the whole premise that CA mentioned earlier of less clicky unit special abilities rather than just including that in the units base stats. Casters will already by busy enough dodging enemies and having to do that + move in and out of range every 30 seconds to cast a spell seems like bad design especially given most spells relatively low results.

    If I were playing in such a system I'd almost entirely ignore casters until they were rather highly leveled and then worth my attention/micro time in battles. Having spell effects that 1 army tradition increase or smith upgrade can surpass means bring casters to battle vs another unit is hardly ever worth it until the top level spells are unlocked for each caster.
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  • DwarfMasterRaceDwarfMasterRace Posts: 1,960Registered Users
    Surely the Runesmith will be able to dispell magic? Otherwise, well... he's not gonna have much to do. :wink:
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,144Registered Users
    @Ichon
    If I remember correctly, the less "clicky" was about that units will have barely special abilities, while the new big stars, the lords and heroes, are probably the opposite. They will requite more micromanagement.
    How much I personally like or dislike this, I will have to test.
    As for the effectiveness I would also wait. -4 Armour doesn't sound much, but in Medieval 2 for example the difference between having the armour upgrade (+1) and not having it, made a big difference. And while this is obviously a while ago, I would't discount that -4 Armour may be a game changer in some engagements.

    @dwarfmasterrace
    I doubt it, unless there is a general system of dispel. Runesmith are probably about giving magic resistance and offer buffs to units.
    In the TT, one of the reason most Dwarf armies have 2 of them is less because magic, but because they give armour piercing to the unit. Which greatly buff the melee effectiveness.

    So they will have probably more a support role.
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,144Registered Users
    edited February 2016
    Ikit Claw
    Partly genius, partly mad, thou on second through, mostly mad.

    TT:
    His stat line isn’t bad; he is pretty strong, pretty tough, okay fighting skills, but surprisingly low initiative. Overall, he has equal fighting power of an Empire General, without taking his gear into account, which is impressive.
    He uses the Skaven Lore of Ruin and is a level 3 caster.

    Magical Items:

    Iron Frame:
    This is an impressive magic armour, which increases his strength 3+ (is already included in his armybook stats, without it he would have S 2). It also gives him very strong 3+ armour save and a 5+ ward safe.
    Additionally, you have the ability to use ones per game what is essentially a Warpfire thrower which is a pretty strong flamethrower.

    Storm Daemon:
    It is a magical Halberd that ignores armour saves. Additionally, it has a bound spell which fires for 5+ energy attack with Strength 5 and 24 inches range. The number of hits is determent with the artillery dice (2-10 and misfire).
    In case of a misfire he must roll a D6. 1-2 means that he and everyone in contact suffers a S5, 3-4 means that he can’t cast anymore and 5-6 where he gains D3 energy for his other spells.

    He also uses a warplock pistol, which is a slightly stronger (and more dangerous to the user) pistol.

    Special rules:
    Special rule wise he has the Skaven rules, which I won’t address here. Magic wise, he is a level 3 caster, which is weaker than comparable LL’s.

    TW:
    He is a pretty interesting case. With all what he has, he is easily both a pretty good fighter and a caster.
    But since he starts without his gear, he starts probably roughly as strong as most caster in terms of melee strength. The fact that he is a weaker caster with only level 3, doesn’t really matter in TW, since it doesn’t appear that the level strength is translated and in terms of number of spell, you simply invest as much you want.
    What could make him interesting is the fact that he is basically the “lord” version of “warlock engineer” and so one could imagine that he has abilities which improve the technology weapons of the skaven, being the boss of the and all.

    Iron Frame:
    This is quite powerful and so I wonder: is CA going to spilt the different aspects of this, into different quest?
    First quest, unlocks the armour upgrade, second the strength updated, the ward save and Warpfire thrower?
    It would be kinda fitting, seeing how he always improves the armour.

    Storm Daemon:
    It is a nice strong weapon, which has also the decency to cast lighting at your enemies. Not necessary needed, giving that you have spell which do similar, but it could be proven handy. It is hard to tell if the miscast effects are translated, but they are relative rare and not that bad.

    Faction traits:
    He could be boosting the modern weapons of the Skaven and Warlock Engineers.

    Conclusion:
    While he has some weaknesses (no mount or obvious bodyguard), he sound very good to me. He could combine being a good caster and being a good fighter into one Lord. Thou naturally, he would probably be weaker then a specialist in both.
    While he has the mentioned problem of mount absence and the lack of mobility that comes with it, the skaven lore of Ruin can help you to bypass this weakness a bit and the spells of this lore are important and strong.
    His abilities to wreck havoc amongst enemies with his spell gets even enhance once he unlocks his halberd, which could mean that the spell “warp lighting” loses appeal. Afterall, why get something so similar twice?
    His probably mightiest tool, will be the flamethrower, since the nature of TW, this can be dangerous for any enemy.
    Grey Seer Thanquol
    Has the biggest collection of Silver Medal in the whole Warhammer wolrd.

    TT:
    He is a classic caster, so don’t aspect too much in terms of combat from himself.
    In terms of magic, he is a grey seer, which means not only that he is level 4 but also that he uses both Skaven lores and even the dreaded 13th spell…

    Magical items:

    Warp-amulet:
    He can roll a D6 and on a 5+, he regains a wound.

    Staff of the Horned One:
    Knows an additional spell.

    Warpstone Token (connected to a special rule for Greey Seers, more about it later):
    He starts with D6+2 Warpstone token.

    Special rules:

    Warpstone addiction:
    Now before we talk about this, we have to talk a bit more about the Warpstine tokens. They can be bough by both Greey Seers and Warlock Engineers. If they are use, they gain a additional energy dice for a spell, but if that dice rolls a one, they suffer a wound without armour save.
    In case of our friend here, he can reroll the dice, but suffer also on a two a wound.

    Blessing of the Hornded Rat:
    Has a ward save from 4+, but if friends are near 6 inches, the wound gets to them (player choice).

    Boneripper:
    He is a modify rat ogre, most build by the parts of early incarnations of “Boneripper”.

    Has a solid statline for melee combat, but isn’t really amazing. He does cause fear and he is unbreakable.
    He also has a Warpstone thrower (flamethrower), which he can fire once per game.
    This isn’t bad at all, but he has one practical weakness: he must be close to Thanquol.
    If he isn’t within 12 inches of him, he shuts down, can’t move and is automatically hit. If Thanquol dies or flees, Boneripper is also destroyed.

    TW:
    Being a classic caster in roughly the same matter Balthazar Gelt is, I think he be quite hard hitting, but will not have the armour necessary to scurvies melee combat.
    But since he is a Grey Seer should have both lores and the 13th spell, which is proper devastating.

    Warp-amulet:
    This could be very nice. The ability (I don’t see this become a passive), to regain health is always nice and the strategic help this supports (helping you to keep using him) shouldn’t be underestimated.
    It could also provide less time wounded, after a knock out and better replenishment of his health when wounded outside of battles.
    Probably also defence will be going up.

    Staff of the Horned One:
    Since learning an additional spell is pointless, we will either see cooldown reduction or an energy buff. Also melee attack will be raise.

    Warpstone Token:
    Now this one depend on how the whole thing will be translated, (my guess: skill points for more), but no matter what CA will do with this, he should get an extra bonus.
    Which is good, since they do give access to more energy, for a risk of course, but Skaven are risk taker…

    Special rules:

    Warpstone addiction:
    Again, depends on how the original rule is handled, but in case CA decides that they shouldn’t have the chance to wound the user, then this could simply boost the usage of those warpstone token to gain more energy.

    Blessing of the Hornded Rat:
    This could be one of the hilarious passive abilities you have ever seen.
    It could mean that every time he is hit and the ward saves did reduce the damage, that it gets partly send to friendly unit around him.
    Example: he gets hit by Karl Franz with a Damage of 350, which his ward save reduces about 20% (base on Gelt Ward save). Those 20% (70 damage) would then go to the clanrats nearby, meaning that every time KF hits Thanquol, some random rats nearby die.
    Now this would mean that he is kinda a loose cannon, since it could just finish off the level 29 hero you though were safe, but it is manageable, thou it maybe not for poor little Boneripper.

    Boneripper:
    This is truly interesting. You see, people sometimes say that certain people have to come together, because the lore makes them so close to each other. But here we have a case, were the TT rules demand it.
    You can’t have the one without the other in the TT and Boneripper is useless, if Thanquol isn’t nearby. Now this begs the question: how does this work in TW.
    Does Boneripper make a unit with Thanquol? And what does this to the Blessing? Does it then only effect him or does the blessing redirects the damage than to a completely different unit?
    Or is Boneripper a own “hero”/unit, which then takes a slot in the army of Thanquol (probably the most expensive price, one could pay). He is pretty similar to what an Empire General is stat wise (stronger, but slow initiative and bad armour, Karl Franz would most likely kill him before he can do anything in the TT).
    Assuming that he will be a unit of his own, he does come with a couple of strings. On one hand, he can’t be too far away from Thanquol, since he does shut himself down and becomes useless, when to far away from Thanquol. But being too close to him could be dangerous thanks to the blessing.
    This also has some implications for Thanquol himself: you don’t want him too close to the front lines. Because even without the blessing side effects, he is still a not so tanky caster and with his blessing he is more tanky yes, but he then shouldn’t stand too close to anybody then, if you like avoiding casualties. But in order to actually use Boneripper, you likely have to be rather close to the frontlines, since boneripper is a melee fighter, flame thrower or not.
    And in case he does take a unit slot, you want to actually use him badly.

    In short: should CA stay faithful to the TT, then using Thanquol and Boneripper together will be a balancing act.

    Campaign traits:
    We have a couple of options here:
    Since Thanquol is great in collecting silver medals for his plans and selling them as gold medals, it could be fitting that under his command, you don’t suffer defeat penalties, even gain loot when losing.
    While cool, it wouldn’t be too good as a bonus, since it requires you to lose battles to trigger.
    But perhaps in combination with something else it could work.
    He is known to have a vast spy network amongst the humans, which he especially studies. So perhaps a number of boni against humans could be fitting right.
    Then of curse boni for mages (rather boring) or something warpstone related, could also work.

    Conclusion:
    While he has a rather complicated relationship with Boneripper and some of his rules can be a bit dangerous to your own forces, adding to the danger skaven are to themselves, he is still a very good choice.
    From all possible LL’s, he is probably the best caster, thank to having both lores and the 13th spell and with Boneripper he has the potential to bring a capable unit with him. Thou due the special rules, an enemy (especially a human in multiplayer) could exploit that with for example using “wind push” on you to bring Boneripper out of support range.
    Now he doesn’t have a mount and must rely on the natural speed of skaven, but that still quite okay and he also could use the lore of ruin to solve that problem.
    So overall a very interesting case for CA to adept and most likely a great choice as LL…
    If you like silver medals, that is…

    Lord Skrolk
    Father’s Nurgle favourite rat.

    TT:
    He is pretty good in melee and pretty tough. He hits fast and hits a lot.

    Magic:
    Is level 3 caster with Skaven Lore of Plague.

    Terror:
    He causes “Terror” which once again leads to the question what CA is going to do with it:
    Make it lower moral or lower fighting stats (if they fail the moral test).

    Frenzy:
    Must pass moral test or attack the next enemy model.

    Aura of Pestilence:
    All models in base contact with him, suffer -1 on hit rolls, only exceptions are the plague units of the skaven.

    Magical Items:

    Rod of Corruption:
    It is a flail (+1 strength on attack), every model hit with it, must pass a single toughness test or die. No saves of any kind allowed. If they survive, you hit normal to wound.

    The Liber Bubonicus:
    Has a bound spell, Cost 6+. One enemy unit within 24 inches must roll a D6:
    1 Squeaking, squealing nonsense. No effects.
    2-4 Every model suffers a strength 1 hit, with no armour saves allowed.
    5-6 Every model suffers a strength 2 hit, with no armour saves allowed.

    TW:
    He is defiantly not your typical caster, but closer to a Warrior Priest (even better in some aspects, thou worst in other) in terms of melee performance. But he is still a full caster.

    Magic wise, he profits from the same advantage as Ikit: his weak level 3 doesn’t matter.
    The lore he uses is a bit specially and pushes you further to use plague monks, since they suffer less under the negative side effects.

    Terror:
    See above.

    Frenzy:
    Could be an interesting quirk: on one hand, losing control over your main Lord is not funny, thou this would be counter acted by raising leader ship. On the other: the charge bonus you could get from it could outweigh the control lost.
    Maybe CA turns it into an active ability, where you exchange control and defence against charge bonus and attack.

    Aura of Pestilence:
    It could work in different ways. The closes to the TT, would be an aura which debuffs melee attack for all except the skaven plague units.
    But it could also grant melee defence instead.

    Magical Items:

    Rod of Corruption:
    I assume that it would have an ability which causes some sort of “poison” attack, which does hard damage. It also should provide a charge bonus

    The Liber Bubonicus:
    It is a spell which should work well against relative weak and not so tough horde units. Possible a “poison” spells. It could also work some surprise damage against empire knights (ignores armour) thou I wouldn’t count on that.

    Campaign Traits:
    Since he is the ultimate plague priest, he should boost improves everything from plague monks, priest and/or plague clawcatapult.

    Conclusion:
    Similar to Ikit, but in a different taste. He has instead of high-tech weapon, dieses and instead of very good armour, toughness (HP) and poison effects instead of flamethrower.
    When you want to use plague monks extensively, he is your guy, otherwise I would prefer either Thanquol or Ikit.
    The first has both magic option and the second has the better of the two lores and it a bit less build on just on unit type.
    Post edited by SiWI on
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  • IchonIchon Senior Member Posts: 4,751Registered Users
    SiWi said:

    @Ichon
    If I remember correctly, the less "clicky" was about that units will have barely special abilities, while the new big stars, the lords and heroes, are probably the opposite. They will requite more micromanagement.
    How much I personally like or dislike this, I will have to test.
    As for the effectiveness I would also wait. -4 Armour doesn't sound much, but in Medieval 2 for example the difference between having the armour upgrade (+1) and not having it, made a big difference. And while this is obviously a while ago, I would't discount that -4 Armour may be a game changer in some engagements.

    @dwarfmasterrace
    I doubt it, unless there is a general system of dispel. Runesmith are probably about giving magic resistance and offer buffs to units.
    In the TT, one of the reason most Dwarf armies have 2 of them is less because magic, but because they give armour piercing to the unit. Which greatly buff the melee effectiveness.

    So they will have probably more a support role.

    I'm sure the melee lords will have some click, recharge, click abilities as well as the casters but they also are unlikely to be moving around quite as much as casters need to protect themselves and move into range to cast.

    Remember on MTW2 that the armor upgrades were actually 2.5 armor per color so full armor upgrade offered something like +7.5 armor when most units had alot less than 30 armor so many units were getting over 100% armor upgrade and even the best units were getting close to 30% armor upgrade. Contrast that to the stats we've seen so far where the best units have over 100 armor and even mid tier units have 45 or so range roughly 9% to 4% difference in armor. I wouldn't call that useless but neither is it very useful especially in increments of 20-30 seconds only.

    As for Runelords- we've seen Orc shaman on map ability to affect winds of magic and I would be very surprised that Dwarf Runelord wouldn't have a similar or even greater ability to dampen the winds of magic on the campaign map to make opposing armies have less mana available in battles.
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  • ThanquolThanquol Senior Member SkavenblightPosts: 2,017Registered Users
    edited February 2016
    SiWi said:

    Ikit Claw

    Thou due the special rules, an enemy (especially a human in multiplayer) could exploit that with for example using “wind push” on you to bring Boneripper out of support range.
    Now he doesn’t have a mount and must rely on the natural speed of skaven.

    I the most great and powerful Thanquol first amongst Mage-Rats, chosen of the Horned Rat, and most favoured amongst The Council suspect these to be non issues. I see no reason why my own prostigous image will not be based on the most recent model of myself with the newer Boneripper model as a mount choice. (that way when in battle I'm afixed to my pet as a single model much like Karl Franz upon Deathclaw) For game balence have him equiped with the warpfire braziers and have him perform on the battlefield as a bigger, stronger rat ogre with a large HP pool that can inflict a fair bit of damage to a unit in melee but is likely to get surrounded, overwhelmed and thus killed if not assisted relitivley quickly. (It would also make me a "large" unit making me particully vunerable to units with "good against large"....such as slayers, most appropriate me thinks)

    Having Boneripper as a mount in this manner would also allow for the option of haveing myself on foot to make use of Skitterleap (plus I'd likely start the campaign with no mounts unlocked anyway) Notice I stated mounts, As CA appears to be giveing LL mount options they don't have regular access too (eg Karl Franz on a pegasus) I see no reason that CA would not grant me back the choice (once unlocked) to once more ride a Screaming Bell as i could in other past iterations.
    "Fear me for I am Grey Seer Thanqol, Greatest TWW player in all of Skavendom."

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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,144Registered Users
    @Grey Seer Thanquol
    I discount Endtimes models, because of Endtimes. Thou Boneripper as mount could also work. Not matter if you are actually riding him or he is just a bodyguard.

    And you are wrong on Karl Franz. Karl Franz has the Pegasus, with two upgrade option, as mount. You must improve your studies on us humans.
    Hence it is unlikely that you get access to the Screaming bell, the same Ironhide doesn't have access to wyvren.
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  • crimsonsuncrimsonsun Junior Member Posts: 390Registered Users
    fail (+1 strength on attack), every model hit with it, must pass a single toughness test or die. No saves of any kind allowed. If they survive, you hit normal to wound.

    Sorry this made me giggle. Possibly in the top ten of most broken items in Warhammer. so to be called fail instead of flail (which is debated by historians as to if correct) just made me laugh.

    Something that I'd like to know regarding magic is are there rituals that are used on the campaign map? I could see this as the most obvious way of bringing about many Vampire abilities or requirements to protect them and there armies.
    "This land" "Is my home, my birthright! The wind and rain are my allies. The trees and stones are my foot soldiers. The very earth will rise up against you, should you try to take it from me. And my people will feast on your bones!"
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  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,144Registered Users


    Sorry this made me giggle. Possibly in the top ten of most broken items in Warhammer. so to be called fail instead of flail (which is debated by historians as to if correct) just made me laugh.

    Ups. ;)
    Something that I'd like to know regarding magic is are there rituals that are used on the campaign map? I could see this as the most obvious way of bringing about many Vampire abilities or requirements to protect them and there armies.
    We know that they will have the ability to drain the magical winds in a province.
    Some of they campaign map action could be explained by magic.

    As for "strategic spell", like the Discipline series, will be a thing, we don't know and I'm sceptical, since the thing was a bit broken.
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  • DwarfMasterRaceDwarfMasterRace Posts: 1,960Registered Users
    Ichon said:

    SiWi said:

    @Ichon
    If I remember correctly, the less "clicky" was about that units will have barely special abilities, while the new big stars, the lords and heroes, are probably the opposite. They will requite more micromanagement.
    How much I personally like or dislike this, I will have to test.
    As for the effectiveness I would also wait. -4 Armour doesn't sound much, but in Medieval 2 for example the difference between having the armour upgrade (+1) and not having it, made a big difference. And while this is obviously a while ago, I would't discount that -4 Armour may be a game changer in some engagements.

    @dwarfmasterrace
    I doubt it, unless there is a general system of dispel. Runesmith are probably about giving magic resistance and offer buffs to units.
    In the TT, one of the reason most Dwarf armies have 2 of them is less because magic, but because they give armour piercing to the unit. Which greatly buff the melee effectiveness.

    So they will have probably more a support role.


    As for Runelords- we've seen Orc shaman on map ability to affect winds of magic and I would be very surprised that Dwarf Runelord wouldn't have a similar or even greater ability to dampen the winds of magic on the campaign map to make opposing armies have less mana available in battles.
    I can make do with that I suppose, so long as the Runesmiths have at least some anti-magic role to protect my armies.

    I wonder what the Anvil of Doom will be able to do if we get that - that could make magic more interesting for Dwarfs!
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,144Registered Users

    Ichon said:

    SiWi said:

    @Ichon
    If I remember correctly, the less "clicky" was about that units will have barely special abilities, while the new big stars, the lords and heroes, are probably the opposite. They will requite more micromanagement.
    How much I personally like or dislike this, I will have to test.
    As for the effectiveness I would also wait. -4 Armour doesn't sound much, but in Medieval 2 for example the difference between having the armour upgrade (+1) and not having it, made a big difference. And while this is obviously a while ago, I would't discount that -4 Armour may be a game changer in some engagements.

    @dwarfmasterrace
    I doubt it, unless there is a general system of dispel. Runesmith are probably about giving magic resistance and offer buffs to units.
    In the TT, one of the reason most Dwarf armies have 2 of them is less because magic, but because they give armour piercing to the unit. Which greatly buff the melee effectiveness.

    So they will have probably more a support role.


    As for Runelords- we've seen Orc shaman on map ability to affect winds of magic and I would be very surprised that Dwarf Runelord wouldn't have a similar or even greater ability to dampen the winds of magic on the campaign map to make opposing armies have less mana available in battles.
    I can make do with that I suppose, so long as the Runesmiths have at least some anti-magic role to protect my armies.

    I wonder what the Anvil of Doom will be able to do if we get that - that could make magic more interesting for Dwarfs!
    Well I review the Anvil and must admit: I don't find it too impressive in terms of the spells.
    If the dwarfs would have access to any of the main rule book Lore's, it would be better than the Anvil. But thanks to the fact that they don't have it, it does give you at least something in that regard.
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  • DwarfMasterRaceDwarfMasterRace Posts: 1,960Registered Users
    SiWi said:

    Ichon said:

    SiWi said:

    @Ichon
    If I remember correctly, the less "clicky" was about that units will have barely special abilities, while the new big stars, the lords and heroes, are probably the opposite. They will requite more micromanagement.
    How much I personally like or dislike this, I will have to test.
    As for the effectiveness I would also wait. -4 Armour doesn't sound much, but in Medieval 2 for example the difference between having the armour upgrade (+1) and not having it, made a big difference. And while this is obviously a while ago, I would't discount that -4 Armour may be a game changer in some engagements.

    @dwarfmasterrace
    I doubt it, unless there is a general system of dispel. Runesmith are probably about giving magic resistance and offer buffs to units.
    In the TT, one of the reason most Dwarf armies have 2 of them is less because magic, but because they give armour piercing to the unit. Which greatly buff the melee effectiveness.

    So they will have probably more a support role.


    As for Runelords- we've seen Orc shaman on map ability to affect winds of magic and I would be very surprised that Dwarf Runelord wouldn't have a similar or even greater ability to dampen the winds of magic on the campaign map to make opposing armies have less mana available in battles.
    I can make do with that I suppose, so long as the Runesmiths have at least some anti-magic role to protect my armies.

    I wonder what the Anvil of Doom will be able to do if we get that - that could make magic more interesting for Dwarfs!
    Well I review the Anvil and must admit: I don't find it too impressive in terms of the spells.
    If the dwarfs would have access to any of the main rule book Lore's, it would be better than the Anvil. But thanks to the fact that they don't have it, it does give you at least something in that regard.
    I am thinking the Anvil will come with Thorik Ironbrow as a unique mount option, basically making him a powerful spellcaster for the Dwarfs. Or it might be a mount option for all Runelords if they get added, in which case it will probably be weaker, but you can make as many as you have Runelords to use them.

    Compared to other races though, it should be less impressive. Dwarfs definitely should not be magic heavy, aside from it not being in their character it would make them OP given their magic resistance, amazing infantry and powerful war machines! For some basic magic options though it would be nice to have. :smile:
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,144Registered Users
    Updates for Lore of Heaven, Windblast
    Updates for Lore of Death in progress.

    Any wishes which races I should do next?
    Wood Evles?
    Orges?
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  • ThanquolThanquol Senior Member SkavenblightPosts: 2,017Registered Users
    Lore of the Wild for Beastmen???
    "Fear me for I am Grey Seer Thanqol, Greatest TWW player in all of Skavendom."

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    Team Empire Team Bretonnia Team Kislev Team Dwarf Team Chaos Dwarf Team High Elves
    Team Dark Elves
    Team Wood Elves Team Warriors of Chaos Team Daemons of Chaos
    Team Beastmen
    Team Vampire Counts Team Tomb Kings Team Orcs and Goblins
    Team Ogre Kingdoms
    Team Lizardmen Team Skaven




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