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Some suggestions on how to improve Chaos Warriors campaign game-play (poll included)

BheringBhering NorwayRegistered Users Posts: 198
edited June 2016 in Feedback & Suggestions
TLTR: Just some suggestions on how to improve the Chaos Warriors campign-gameplay. Also a poll to gauge player opinions on the matter.

In the interest of seeing what the player-opinions are for CW campaign gameplay I'd really appriciate it if you answered this straw-poll. It could well be the CW have an audience that are quite happy with them, for all I know.

How do you feel about the Chaos Warriors campaign gameplay?:
http://goo.gl/JJ3lWJ

Results:
http://goo.gl/PwVebe


I posted this in general discussions aswell. I feel it also has a place in feedback & suggestions so I hope the double-post is acceptable.

I don't feel like the Chaos Warrior campaign is working. Maybe I'm wrong and it has an audience who likes it, but it seems to me like it's just a string of battles without the variety of custom battles. I kind of feel like they failed entirely with the campaign-mode for this faction, if the goal is to have fun playing them that is.


In the interest of offering some alternatives that may or may not make them play better..

Management
I feel the management part would need to be entirely different. It would need to be a mini-game in itself where the number of options would rival the entirety of the non-horde factions when a mid-sized empire is achieved.

Perhaps a mini-game that expands as a function of razed cities and corruption. Perhaps management that ties more into demonic worship and weakening the weil between the physical world and the warp than physical buildings.

Infrastructure
Horde infrastructre would feel way cooler if it was organizational rather than buildings. Various cults of followers, philosophies, showing favour to one cult over another could all take the place of the current horde buildings.

I've heard you currently loose all infrastructure if you loose a horde. What that makes sense with the current physical horde buildings, it makes no sense from a game-play perspective. Having the organizational infrastructure instead would allow it to follow the lord and not be lost (if that is actually the case).

Horde Mechanics
While the horde infighting sounds fun in theory, it currently just seems unappropriate mostly because a "Horde" is limited to a single stack. That's not much of a horde at all, just a mid-sized army. If feels about as appropriate as if dwarf units had zero armor-value.

An alternative would be to allow for a high number of stacks in a single horde, where unlike waaagh stacks you'd instead have to pay for the extra stacks just like normal, but they otherwise behaved like waaagh-stacks with following the leader. The extended horde would be slow on the attack, but absolutely overwhelming when faced head-on without lightning strike to whittle them down.

Raid-Attrition Upkeep
Further the current upkeep system seems entirely out of place. The whole point of a horde is it's organization. The lord doesen't pay them as if they were a professional army. They "get payed" from the loot of raiding, sacking and razing.

There could be a system with severe attrition that increased with the size of the horde (symbolozing ppl leaving the horde to plunder on their own), every turn the horde didn't raid, sack or raze. It would make the horde appropriately slow except when it's pouncing, friendly to lore and fictive realism.

To counter-balance and simulate the slow growth of a horde, the cost of getting units in the first place could be multiplied a number of times, making every new addition feel like a meaningful upgrade, a small cult of following in themselves. A horde should take relatively long to get traction, but once it does upkeep should not be an issue and it should be difficult to stop. Once it's destroyed however, it should take long to regain traction once more.

Representatives of the Gods
Chaos Warriors lack some important thematics. While it's very cool to make them chaos undivided, it feels out of place that all followers should be aswell. How much resources would it have taken to make some reskins of the current chaos warriors, to get some dedicated ones following the horde?

They could be slight varieties. Example, khorne ones dual-wielding for frenzy and anti-infantry but severe melee-defence penalties. Tzeentchians with halberds, good melee-defence, a model that looks like a sorcerer, a spell-like CD, but melee attack penalties. Nurgle warriors with high HP, poison attacks and a CD or passive debuff (nurgle rot). Slaneeshians with extra speed (or something, if speed on warriors is out of place). Etc. Limit them to one per horde (not per stack), and suddenly the chaos horde starts to feel more like just that.

Tilt
Even with all this Chaos Warriors wouldn't be quite enjoyable. It needs something unique to its gameplay. Chaos corruption is not interactive in a way that make CW meningful and fun to play. You have the option to awaken tribes, but there is no sense of purpose to it. Maybe you can get something out of it once you have plowed through Norsca several times, but its way to little way to late.

To me CW feels directionless, like I'm just wasting time no matter what I do. Something needs to happen. Something meaningful needs to happen everytime I direct my attention to stuff like awakening, and there need to be a worthwhile long-term purpose to it aswell.

Ah well, just some thoughts. As it stands now CW is not worth the time spent playing in campaign-mode for me. Could be the things I suggested wouldn't make the game enjoyable either, but I think it's somewhat meaningless to complain about it being booring if I don't have suggestions on how to make it not so.

But the CW faction still makes a nice addition to the custom battles. So worth getting for that.


PS: Feel free to add suggestions in this thread if you feel like me, that campaign-gameplay for CW is really bad. Also feel free to discuss CW gameplay in general. Please refrain from discussing CW balancing in this thread, as there are plenty other threads that does that and it would likely derail this one.
Post edited by Bhering on

Comments

  • IsbjornIsbjorn Registered Users Posts: 34
    While I feel like many of the things you've posted are a wee bit too unspecific to actually fix anything, I like your ideas for horde management, and I fully agree on the infighting mechanics. Currently the infighting just means that you'll always be fighting considerably larger forces with too few forces.
  • OrsoOrso Registered Users Posts: 3
    For chaos campaign I would like a complete overhaul. With some change in the mechanics maybe it is just matter of modding it, I'm not a modder myself, so i don't know what is doable what is not. Here is some idea about it.
    My concept is: the north tribes are the chaos citizen, nor the chaos hordes. You are the Everchosen, the chaos bringer, they have to freak and obey you (chaos obedience is a partial concept ofc). From a mechanics point of view the chaos tribes you free can be your "power rising" tool. So they have to start as puppets not allied, and pay you a real tribute in chaos favour (their ppl need to "pray" a lot). The first part of the campaign would consist in the rising of all the tribes, end subjugation of the the starting Norse faction too. Your puppets IA will only build new towns on ruins (only if the region reach a minimum of chaos corruption). Each nation will focus on on a different region (with some overlap is ok, but not much, as if you "lose" a tribe you have to pay a fee for it). They will never send armies in attack, nor to help you conquering new regions. They will defend themselves and the chaos domain doing it. Their armies will stay behind nor they will declare war to anyone, nor yours enemies. Their role in the game is stop the enemy IA "factions" to rebuild on ruins, stopping the chaos corruption expansion, when your hordes leave a region. They will give you enough income to pay off the expanding armies expenses, no other "consistent" source of income, so without them you will have the favor to maintain only the 1 basic starting horde. Sacking will give you way less favor, if any (maybe only grow points like raze?). You have to balance your entries helping your puppets to survive, rise their income and secure their borders, so they can feed you more. To realize it you have to adjust/remove all those bonus to recruitment, maintenance cost and increased sack income coming from building, abilities and techs. Instead they will rise income from puppets, chaos corruption spread from chaos rift / Norse altar / hordes, whatsoever can help expanding chaos and consolidating the puppets defending abilities in the long run.
  • supersandmansupersandman Registered Users Posts: 18
    For me the chaos campaign wasn't very enjoyable or engaging. I think the whole infighting thing is silly, and i was surprised how huge the infighting radius is. I didn't like that the Norse tribes where at war with you and only you in the beginning of the campaign. They should have been at war with the northern empire provinces a least.

    Yes Chaos fights it self a lot, but this is Archaon here. Not some petty warlord. The Everchosen is supposed to unite all of Chaos to put aside all of their differences and focus on the bigger picture, destroying the world lol.

    I think how they did the green skin "fightyness" would have worked a lot better and made much more sense than infighting mechanic. If your armies are raiding and pillaging the warriors are content and stay, if you havent done anything in awhile they will get bored and leave.

    Daemons arent in the game yet, but if the Chaos mechanic was like the "fightyness" mechanic, instead of a waagh it could be a Daemon incursion. That would make sense and would be **** awesome!

    Anyway, i really hope they rework the chaos campaign.

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