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Suggestion for Dwarf Slayers.

FizzlewizzleFizzlewizzle Posts: 9Registered Users
edited June 2016 in General Discussion
Good day everyone.

I might be the only one, maybe one of the few, or maybe the first one that just talks about this... but i think that Dwarf Slayers in this game are done wrong.

My personal first thought when i saw slayers in the army roster was "i need at least one of them so i can fight giants, monsters and enemy generals". My first thought when i recruited a slayer unit in my army and entered the battlefield was "i need 5 of those units, put them in front of my artillery to hold enemies in place so i can shoot them without without having to worry that my SHIELD runs away".

Slayers come in very large numbers. They aren't the strong (crazy) fighters they are made out to be in the tabletop game.
I think that Slayer units should be (greatly!) reduced in numbers, and made more of a honor seeking killing machine rather than some expendable line which won't give up.


For this a few suggestions:
Normal Slayers:
- Reduce their unit size to a single character!
- Lower their total (unit) health to about 50% of what it is now.
- Increase the "unit" damage output by at least 50%
- Increase the base cost of a single Slayer unit to 3K

Passives:
  • Anti Large (Optional).
  • Fast [For a dwarf] (Optional).
  • Deathblow.
  • For Honor (new):
    - Increase damage by 10% for every "negative" aspect of the enemy (Faster/ Stronger/ Intimidating).
    - Increase damage by 10% for each allied unit that routs within X meters of this unit.
    - Increase damage by 10% when below 75% max health, 20% when below 50% health and 30% when below 25% max health.
Monument of Grimnir (building):
- Increase the requirement for this building to level 5, as well as the price to 20K.
- Having a monument of Grimnir will unlock 2 new units: Daemon Slayer and Dragon Slayer.

Daemon Slayer:
Same stats and passives as the normal Slayers suggested above, and a 25% increase in price (3.75K
Added Passive: fearless (new):
- Makes the Daemon Slayer unaffected by any forms of attrition while in Chaos/ Vampiric contaminated lands.

Dragon Slayer.
A 50% increase in all stats of the normal Slayers suggested above (besides health), as well as price (4.5K)
For the "for Honor" Passive this would mean:
- Increase damage by 15% for every "negative" aspect of the enemy (Faster/ Stronger/ Intimidating).
- Increase damage by 15% for each allied unit that routs within X meters of this unit.
- Increase damage by 15% when below 75% max health, 30% when below 50% health and 45% when below 25% max health.


This would basically make Slayer units an expensive unit with a lot of potential... if you're willing to throw them towards their honorable deaths.

Comments

  • Rochaid29Rochaid29 Senior Member Posts: 1,278Registered Users
    This is a nice idea, maybe someone that can do mods can make it happen. Maybe a squad of 5 like the trolls instead of a single unit and I could get behind that.
  • GaussiaGaussia Junior Member Posts: 1,260Registered Users
  • conorrobconorrob Posts: 13Registered Users
    man 3k for slayers with 50% of their current health.... they will be so OP ;-)
  • conorrobconorrob Posts: 13Registered Users
    edited June 2016
    I do agree they need work though... not suited for purpose (monster killers) and struggle to be anything other than vamp snipe and crypt horror spam protection...

    EDIT: In mp of course
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,809Registered Users
    The slayer.


    Maybe warhammers most iconic thing.


    And in this game wet paper towels.


    CA really dropped the ball on this one.

    I love your ideas.

    I suggest making the slayers into small unit of 15 per unit and making them the most powerful melee that the dwarfs have and make them alot faster to help the dwarfs in that regard. And add in Gotrek as a LL
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • DalakhDalakh Senior Member FrancePosts: 1,937Registered Users
    You've been readin too much Gotrek & Felix son, the uberroxxorherothatneverdiesortakesadump syndrome has had the better of you.
    "We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

    — Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,103Registered Users
    edited June 2016

    The slayer.


    Maybe warhammers most iconic thing.


    And in this game wet paper towels.


    CA really dropped the ball on this one.

    I love your ideas.

    I suggest making the slayers into small unit of 15 per unit and making them the most powerful melee that the dwarfs have and make them alot faster to help the dwarfs in that regard. And add in Gotrek as a LL

    Also paper towels in actual warhammer and useless unless you're vsing someone that you could defeat blindfolded anyway.

    Not CA's fault. The unit has been crap in Warhammer for at least the 15 years I've played it. The role it fills within the dwarf army is pointless and they have too many weaknesses without enough strengths.


    Dwarfs already have slayer heroes, they will be added at some point. Probably to give dwarfs an actual assassin on the campaign map.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • ImmaculateDeceptionImmaculateDeception Senior Member Posts: 2,073Registered Users
    The only reason I use slayers in this game is as pursuit units that chase down fleeing units. Slayers are by far the quickest Dwarf unit and they are very efficient with their pursuit attacks. I would put them on par with Hounds and Wolves.

    Personally I prefer gunners for taking down monsters and regular dwarf line troops to hold the monsters in place. Slayers definitely didn't seem to get properly balanced.
  • AetaosRauKeresAetaosRauKeres Posts: 327Registered Users
    edited June 2016
    slayers are dwarfs without armour. What did you expect?
    60 Gotreks killing giants, trolls and zombiedragons left and right?

    they could need some help in overall damage output but still normal dwarfs without armour
  • knodo85knodo85 Member Posts: 1,135Registered Users
    If you're going to turn slayers into a one man unit, you may as well make him into a hero instead. They could get a very interesting skill tree.
  • FizzlewizzleFizzlewizzle Posts: 9Registered Users
    I don't really like the idea of Slayers being heroes and such.
    Heroes can't die. They get wounded and are out of service for a short time, but they will return after a few turns.
    Doesn't really fit with the "dying for honor" thing slayers have.
    (Main reason i don't use the Slayer king as my legendary lord).

    Them being a 1 character unit would make them (sort of) the same as Giants and such.
    Single character, should pack quite a punch, but since its an unarmored dwarf they can die pretty fast (but they will go out in a blaze of Glory).

  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,103Registered Users

    I don't really like the idea of Slayers being heroes and such.
    Heroes can't die. They get wounded and are out of service for a short time, but they will return after a few turns.
    Doesn't really fit with the "dying for honor" thing slayers have.
    (Main reason i don't use the Slayer king as my legendary lord).

    Them being a 1 character unit would make them (sort of) the same as Giants and such.
    Single character, should pack quite a punch, but since its an unarmored dwarf they can die pretty fast (but they will go out in a blaze of Glory).

    Heroes can die on the battlefield.

    And I don't care if you don't "like" dwarf slayer heroes. They have them.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • FizzlewizzleFizzlewizzle Posts: 9Registered Users

    I don't really like the idea of Slayers being heroes and such.
    Heroes can't die. They get wounded and are out of service for a short time, but they will return after a few turns.
    Doesn't really fit with the "dying for honor" thing slayers have.
    (Main reason i don't use the Slayer king as my legendary lord).

    Them being a 1 character unit would make them (sort of) the same as Giants and such.
    Single character, should pack quite a punch, but since its an unarmored dwarf they can die pretty fast (but they will go out in a blaze of Glory).

    Heroes can die on the battlefield.

    And I don't care if you don't "like" dwarf slayer heroes. They have them.
    I don't mind if you agree with me or not. Just wanted to voice my thoughts.

    I have had enough heroes who got wiped in battle.
    A few turns later you get the "XXX" returned to your service. Not really what i call dead.
    Don't know if its the same guy or not, as i don't remember all their names. It's just that Thorgrim died once, and he got back a turn or two later.

    Normal units seem much more "expendable" compared to heroes, which seems more fit for slayers.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,798Registered Users
    I'd like to see CA move away from the TT on this and make them a useful unit ingame. They're too iconic to be useless.

    I say give them 40 slayers in a unit and up their health to the point where they take a proper beating before going down.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • LeztaLezta Posts: 40Registered Users

    I don't really like the idea of Slayers being heroes and such.
    Heroes can't die. They get wounded and are out of service for a short time, but they will return after a few turns.
    Doesn't really fit with the "dying for honor" thing slayers have.
    (Main reason i don't use the Slayer king as my legendary lord).

    Them being a 1 character unit would make them (sort of) the same as Giants and such.
    Single character, should pack quite a punch, but since its an unarmored dwarf they can die pretty fast (but they will go out in a blaze of Glory).

    Heroes can die on the battlefield.

    And I don't care if you don't "like" dwarf slayer heroes. They have them.
    I don't mind if you agree with me or not. Just wanted to voice my thoughts.

    I have had enough heroes who got wiped in battle.
    A few turns later you get the "XXX" returned to your service. Not really what i call dead.
    Don't know if its the same guy or not, as i don't remember all their names. It's just that Thorgrim died once, and he got back a turn or two later.

    Normal units seem much more "expendable" compared to heroes, which seems more fit for slayers.
    Legendary Lords (such as Thorgrim) can't die, they only get wounded.

    Other Lords and Heroes can die, but they can also be wounded.

    Wounded characters will come back, dead ones obviously will not. Makes sense to me - not every injury that takes you out of a battle is going to kill you.
  • FizzlewizzleFizzlewizzle Posts: 9Registered Users
    Lezta said:

    I don't really like the idea of Slayers being heroes and such.
    Heroes can't die. They get wounded and are out of service for a short time, but they will return after a few turns.
    Doesn't really fit with the "dying for honor" thing slayers have.
    (Main reason i don't use the Slayer king as my legendary lord).

    Them being a 1 character unit would make them (sort of) the same as Giants and such.
    Single character, should pack quite a punch, but since its an unarmored dwarf they can die pretty fast (but they will go out in a blaze of Glory).

    Heroes can die on the battlefield.

    And I don't care if you don't "like" dwarf slayer heroes. They have them.
    I don't mind if you agree with me or not. Just wanted to voice my thoughts.

    I have had enough heroes who got wiped in battle.
    A few turns later you get the "XXX" returned to your service. Not really what i call dead.
    Don't know if its the same guy or not, as i don't remember all their names. It's just that Thorgrim died once, and he got back a turn or two later.

    Normal units seem much more "expendable" compared to heroes, which seems more fit for slayers.
    Legendary Lords (such as Thorgrim) can't die, they only get wounded.

    Other Lords and Heroes can die, but they can also be wounded.

    Wounded characters will come back, dead ones obviously will not. Makes sense to me - not every injury that takes you out of a battle is going to kill you.
    In that case i won't mind Slayers becoming heroes (if they become a single character unit).

    Seems like i've always been lucky with only having wounded heroes.
    Always got wiped followed by a "I'm back" message.

    In any case. Slayers need to be more useful.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,798Registered Users
    Lezta said:

    I don't really like the idea of Slayers being heroes and such.
    Heroes can't die. They get wounded and are out of service for a short time, but they will return after a few turns.
    Doesn't really fit with the "dying for honor" thing slayers have.
    (Main reason i don't use the Slayer king as my legendary lord).

    Them being a 1 character unit would make them (sort of) the same as Giants and such.
    Single character, should pack quite a punch, but since its an unarmored dwarf they can die pretty fast (but they will go out in a blaze of Glory).

    Heroes can die on the battlefield.

    And I don't care if you don't "like" dwarf slayer heroes. They have them.
    I don't mind if you agree with me or not. Just wanted to voice my thoughts.

    I have had enough heroes who got wiped in battle.
    A few turns later you get the "XXX" returned to your service. Not really what i call dead.
    Don't know if its the same guy or not, as i don't remember all their names. It's just that Thorgrim died once, and he got back a turn or two later.

    Normal units seem much more "expendable" compared to heroes, which seems more fit for slayers.
    Legendary Lords (such as Thorgrim) can't die, they only get wounded.

    Other Lords and Heroes can die, but they can also be wounded.

    Wounded characters will come back, dead ones obviously will not. Makes sense to me - not every injury that takes you out of a battle is going to kill you.
    Actually it doesn't make sense, it's not like they've limped off the battlefield, they've died. I get it for assassinations, but if a hero dies on the battlefield they should be permanently dead.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • lcmiraclelcmiracle Posts: 116Registered Users
    edited June 2016
    LLs shouldn't have a death animation; they should storm off the battlefield when their hitpoints reach 0.

    But as whole the TW games overestimated the lethality of cold-weapon wars. We should get about 60-70% of the casualties as POW.
    Post edited by lcmiracle on
  • DwarfMasterRaceDwarfMasterRace Posts: 1,960Registered Users
    They should be a band of slayers as they are now, not individual slayers. Don't forget this is replicating the TT game, and in the TT game slayers are groups of slayers, not individual slayers. Only the slayer heroes should be individual slayers. But yeah, I agree they need changes. They simply do not fulfil their role very well as they are right now.
  • Zatrakus95Zatrakus95 Posts: 708Registered Users
    I find slayers to be solid as they never break but some changes would be welcome to inrease their usefullness.
  • theedge634theedge634 Senior Member Posts: 1,772Registered Users
    I would cut it down the middle and give them monstrous unit squad size. So 12 Slayers, but much more powerful. I really dislike the single unit idea.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,809Registered Users

    The slayer.


    Maybe warhammers most iconic thing.


    And in this game wet paper towels.


    CA really dropped the ball on this one.

    I love your ideas.

    I suggest making the slayers into small unit of 15 per unit and making them the most powerful melee that the dwarfs have and make them alot faster to help the dwarfs in that regard. And add in Gotrek as a LL

    Also paper towels in actual warhammer and useless unless you're vsing someone that you could defeat blindfolded anyway.

    Not CA's fault. The unit has been crap in Warhammer for at least the 15 years I've played it. The role it fills within the dwarf army is pointless and they have too many weaknesses without enough strengths.


    Dwarfs already have slayer heroes, they will be added at some point. Probably to give dwarfs an actual assassin on the campaign map.
    Awesome in every video game they have been part of though. Until now.
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,103Registered Users

    The slayer.


    Maybe warhammers most iconic thing.


    And in this game wet paper towels.


    CA really dropped the ball on this one.

    I love your ideas.

    I suggest making the slayers into small unit of 15 per unit and making them the most powerful melee that the dwarfs have and make them alot faster to help the dwarfs in that regard. And add in Gotrek as a LL

    Also paper towels in actual warhammer and useless unless you're vsing someone that you could defeat blindfolded anyway.

    Not CA's fault. The unit has been crap in Warhammer for at least the 15 years I've played it. The role it fills within the dwarf army is pointless and they have too many weaknesses without enough strengths.


    Dwarfs already have slayer heroes, they will be added at some point. Probably to give dwarfs an actual assassin on the campaign map.
    Awesome in every video game they have been part of though. Until now.
    Yeah, but this one is actually based off the TT game in terms of game balance.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • ImmaculateDeceptionImmaculateDeception Senior Member Posts: 2,073Registered Users

    The slayer.


    Maybe warhammers most iconic thing.


    And in this game wet paper towels.


    CA really dropped the ball on this one.

    I love your ideas.

    I suggest making the slayers into small unit of 15 per unit and making them the most powerful melee that the dwarfs have and make them alot faster to help the dwarfs in that regard. And add in Gotrek as a LL

    Also paper towels in actual warhammer and useless unless you're vsing someone that you could defeat blindfolded anyway.

    Not CA's fault. The unit has been crap in Warhammer for at least the 15 years I've played it. The role it fills within the dwarf army is pointless and they have too many weaknesses without enough strengths.


    Dwarfs already have slayer heroes, they will be added at some point. Probably to give dwarfs an actual assassin on the campaign map.
    Awesome in every video game they have been part of though. Until now.
    I think they are absolutely essential on the Dwarfen side but not for the battle itself. I hate watching enemy units getting away so that I have to fight them again. With the Dwarfs, that was the part that irritated me the most. Slayers can catch and quickly dispatch pretty much any foot unit in the game. That is a huge benefit to have. Just have one or two of them to plug holes or to be used as flanking units until enemy units start to flee then send them after the enemy and watch those little stunties sprint.
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