Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Fire Drake question

2»

Comments

  • DerpCatDerpCat Registered Users Posts: 448
    edited June 2016

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    I havnt used these at all in game but wouldn't they be a nice counter against a Greenskin army that uses Savage Orcs?

    thats weirdly specif, i mean lets be honest how many times is someone bringing a savage orc army? Rarely, that tinny little possibility justify having these otherwise useless units? i think not. I thnk it is common sense that they need to have other roles other than savage orc killers and that the moment they lack those targets, not to mention that quarrelers a much cheaper units gets the job done if not better.
    Wierdly specific? Have you never fought The Top Knotz? They use savage orcs and they have zero armor. If you crush The Greenskins then The Top Knotz usually survive and thrive.
    i couldnt give two **** about what army compositions a brainless AI army decides to use, MP is the real test to a units balance and in MP almost no one if actually anyone brings savage orc armies. And if they do its so rare the dwarf player wont be expecting it and probably wont bring the flame canon or the iron drakes in the first place but beet them with quarrelers
    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize this game was only MP or that I was only posting to you or that the value of a specific unit is only derived from MP.

    So basically I couldn't give two **** about your opinion if it is only based upon MP.

    No, the Top Knotz are not always dead by the time you can get to Iron Drakes. If all you do is paint the map, then perhaps but with my Dwarf campaign I was being pulled into fights to the North quite often. My Armies in the South beat down The Greenskins pretty well but I was in no hurry to fight the attrition of moving across the worst of The Badlands in order to wipe out The Topknotz.
    are you crying it feels like you're crying, anyway let me get this straight the devs could have made a faction lets call them faction "x" and faction x can only recruit goblin spearmen, so the dwarfs got a unit named "goblin ****" and these guys were **** at everything BUT they could take on armies of goblins at a time and because of that they would cost 1000p do you think thats a necessary unit? A balanced unit? MP IS the real test because units are faced with almost every scenario and army composition, and not just their ideal scenario that are presented in campaign... so you can have your tantrum i'll stick to my opinion
  • Sky_SweeperrSky_Sweeperr Senior Member OklahomaRegistered Users Posts: 1,701
    I don't get the weak against armor thing. I would think molten fire would be pretty effective at melting through armor or boiling the wearers alive inside it. Seems silly that they shrug of freaking lava.
    A brave man marches into danger and ignores his fear. A courageous man marches into danger while embracing his fear.

    OS: Windows 7 Premium 64 bit
    CPU: Intel i7 4970k 4.0 Ghz
    GPU: AMD r9 290x 4GB
    RAM: 16GB DDR3

    Veteran of the Total War franchise since Shogun: Total war. (I was 10)
  • DerpCatDerpCat Registered Users Posts: 448

    I don't get the weak against armor thing. I would think molten fire would be pretty effective at melting through armor or boiling the wearers alive inside it. Seems silly that they shrug of freaking lava.

    i totally agreed and would give a larger range of usability to them that otherwise lacks
  • Blood_DragonBlood_Dragon Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 882
    They seem to be quite effective against Empire state troops. I'm sure there is a way to make them work, but it would be difficult, and you would have to build your force around them. Definitely more worthwhile than the Flame Cannon which is utterly useless.

    "Victory or death, there is no other outcome. Honour is everything. I am a knight of the Ordo Draconis, and I will achieve perfection."
  • rhinoinsomniacrhinoinsomniac Member Registered Users Posts: 950
    there is a mod that changes their damage to be more AP - and of course some person on the mod comment page said something like "yeh nubs can't handle the game - gotta make it easier by changing stuff" lol

    it's not a super well known mod - "better irondrakes" by Rompa


    honey will catch more flies than vinegar

    Team Lizardmen


  • ImmaculateDeceptionImmaculateDeception Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,073
    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    I havnt used these at all in game but wouldn't they be a nice counter against a Greenskin army that uses Savage Orcs?

    thats weirdly specif, i mean lets be honest how many times is someone bringing a savage orc army? Rarely, that tinny little possibility justify having these otherwise useless units? i think not. I thnk it is common sense that they need to have other roles other than savage orc killers and that the moment they lack those targets, not to mention that quarrelers a much cheaper units gets the job done if not better.
    Wierdly specific? Have you never fought The Top Knotz? They use savage orcs and they have zero armor. If you crush The Greenskins then The Top Knotz usually survive and thrive.
    i couldnt give two **** about what army compositions a brainless AI army decides to use, MP is the real test to a units balance and in MP almost no one if actually anyone brings savage orc armies. And if they do its so rare the dwarf player wont be expecting it and probably wont bring the flame canon or the iron drakes in the first place but beet them with quarrelers
    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize this game was only MP or that I was only posting to you or that the value of a specific unit is only derived from MP.

    So basically I couldn't give two **** about your opinion if it is only based upon MP.

    No, the Top Knotz are not always dead by the time you can get to Iron Drakes. If all you do is paint the map, then perhaps but with my Dwarf campaign I was being pulled into fights to the North quite often. My Armies in the South beat down The Greenskins pretty well but I was in no hurry to fight the attrition of moving across the worst of The Badlands in order to wipe out The Topknotz.
    are you crying it feels like you're crying, anyway let me get this straight the devs could have made a faction lets call them faction "x" and faction x can only recruit goblin spearmen, so the dwarfs got a unit named "goblin ****" and these guys were **** at everything BUT they could take on armies of goblins at a time and because of that they would cost 1000p do you think thats a necessary unit? A balanced unit? MP IS the real test because units are faced with almost every scenario and army composition, and not just their ideal scenario that are presented in campaign... so you can have your tantrum i'll stick to my opinion
    Why is it that sad little persons such as you cannot take it when someone simply responds in kind? You have to do all this silly childish stuff such as saying I am throwing a tantrum and crying. No, I am merely telling you that your aggressive post was ignorant and silly. If anyone is throwing a tantrum over it, that is obviously you and thus you are simply trying to project your own emotional immaturity upon me.

    I mean, just look at this response. It is clearly an emotional one. Pathetic.
  • DerpCatDerpCat Registered Users Posts: 448
    edited June 2016

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    I havnt used these at all in game but wouldn't they be a nice counter against a Greenskin army that uses Savage Orcs?

    thats weirdly specif, i mean lets be honest how many times is someone bringing a savage orc army? Rarely, that tinny little possibility justify having these otherwise useless units? i think not. I thnk it is common sense that they need to have other roles other than savage orc killers and that the moment they lack those targets, not to mention that quarrelers a much cheaper units gets the job done if not better.
    Wierdly specific? Have you never fought The Top Knotz? They use savage orcs and they have zero armor. If you crush The Greenskins then The Top Knotz usually survive and thrive.
    i couldnt give two **** about what army compositions a brainless AI army decides to use, MP is the real test to a units balance and in MP almost no one if actually anyone brings savage orc armies. And if they do its so rare the dwarf player wont be expecting it and probably wont bring the flame canon or the iron drakes in the first place but beet them with quarrelers
    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize this game was only MP or that I was only posting to you or that the value of a specific unit is only derived from MP.

    So basically I couldn't give two **** about your opinion if it is only based upon MP.

    No, the Top Knotz are not always dead by the time you can get to Iron Drakes. If all you do is paint the map, then perhaps but with my Dwarf campaign I was being pulled into fights to the North quite often. My Armies in the South beat down The Greenskins pretty well but I was in no hurry to fight the attrition of moving across the worst of The Badlands in order to wipe out The Topknotz.
    are you crying it feels like you're crying, anyway let me get this straight the devs could have made a faction lets call them faction "x" and faction x can only recruit goblin spearmen, so the dwarfs got a unit named "goblin ****" and these guys were **** at everything BUT they could take on armies of goblins at a time and because of that they would cost 1000p do you think thats a necessary unit? A balanced unit? MP IS the real test because units are faced with almost every scenario and army composition, and not just their ideal scenario that are presented in campaign... so you can have your tantrum i'll stick to my opinion
    Why is it that sad little persons such as you cannot take it when someone simply responds in kind? You have to do all this silly childish stuff such as saying I am throwing a tantrum and crying. No, I am merely telling you that your aggressive post was ignorant and silly. If anyone is throwing a tantrum over it, that is obviously you and thus you are simply trying to project your own emotional immaturity upon me.

    I mean, just look at this response. It is clearly an emotional one. Pathetic.
    So....what are you doing right now?
    I simply said i didnt give two **** about an AI army, and you found the appropriate response to be: "So basically I couldn't give two **** about your opinion" you started the attacks, and to get all worked up, seems like a tantrum to me... Also i really like you insulting people who insult, kind of a void statement when you think about it, but i'll take the high road, all is forgiven
  • rhinoinsomniacrhinoinsomniac Member Registered Users Posts: 950
    actually - you started it DerpCat with your post about not giving two crap.s. but who cares? this is the internet. either resolve your issues and ignore each other in peace or just keep arguing and see where the thread goes.


    honey will catch more flies than vinegar

    Team Lizardmen


  • DerpCatDerpCat Registered Users Posts: 448
    edited June 2016

    actually - you started it DerpCat with your post about not giving two crap.s. but who cares? this is the internet. either resolve your issues and ignore each other in peace or just keep arguing and see where the thread goes.

    i said i didn't give two **** about an AI army, im insulting no one, im offending no one, im talking about the game not anyone nor their opinion, it was strongly worded but was directed at the Top Knotz, srsly who gets offended when someones insults an AI army. He, on the other hand, said: "... 2 **** about your opinion". But who cares, completely blown out of proportions
  • ImmaculateDeceptionImmaculateDeception Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,073
    edited June 2016
    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    I havnt used these at all in game but wouldn't they be a nice counter against a Greenskin army that uses Savage Orcs?

    thats weirdly specif, i mean lets be honest how many times is someone bringing a savage orc army? Rarely, that tinny little possibility justify having these otherwise useless units? i think not. I thnk it is common sense that they need to have other roles other than savage orc killers and that the moment they lack those targets, not to mention that quarrelers a much cheaper units gets the job done if not better.
    Wierdly specific? Have you never fought The Top Knotz? They use savage orcs and they have zero armor. If you crush The Greenskins then The Top Knotz usually survive and thrive.
    i couldnt give two **** about what army compositions a brainless AI army decides to use, MP is the real test to a units balance and in MP almost no one if actually anyone brings savage orc armies. And if they do its so rare the dwarf player wont be expecting it and probably wont bring the flame canon or the iron drakes in the first place but beet them with quarrelers
    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize this game was only MP or that I was only posting to you or that the value of a specific unit is only derived from MP.

    So basically I couldn't give two **** about your opinion if it is only based upon MP.

    No, the Top Knotz are not always dead by the time you can get to Iron Drakes. If all you do is paint the map, then perhaps but with my Dwarf campaign I was being pulled into fights to the North quite often. My Armies in the South beat down The Greenskins pretty well but I was in no hurry to fight the attrition of moving across the worst of The Badlands in order to wipe out The Topknotz.
    are you crying it feels like you're crying, anyway let me get this straight the devs could have made a faction lets call them faction "x" and faction x can only recruit goblin spearmen, so the dwarfs got a unit named "goblin ****" and these guys were **** at everything BUT they could take on armies of goblins at a time and because of that they would cost 1000p do you think thats a necessary unit? A balanced unit? MP IS the real test because units are faced with almost every scenario and army composition, and not just their ideal scenario that are presented in campaign... so you can have your tantrum i'll stick to my opinion
    Why is it that sad little persons such as you cannot take it when someone simply responds in kind? You have to do all this silly childish stuff such as saying I am throwing a tantrum and crying. No, I am merely telling you that your aggressive post was ignorant and silly. If anyone is throwing a tantrum over it, that is obviously you and thus you are simply trying to project your own emotional immaturity upon me.

    I mean, just look at this response. It is clearly an emotional one. Pathetic.
    So....what are you doing right now?
    I simply said i didnt give two **** about an AI army, and you found the appropriate response to be: "So basically I couldn't give two **** about your opinion" you started the attacks, and to get all worked up, seems like a tantrum to me... Also i really like you insulting people who insult, kind of a void statement when you think about it, but i'll take the high road, all is forgiven
    I don't give two **** about your high road or your forgiveness. You simply got what you asked for and now you want to act otherwise? So why would you think I would give two **** about your opinion? Nice attempt, but you still just look like you cant handle someone calling out your opinion for what it is.

    It's not my fault if you are completely unable to understand how a greenskin unit that is all about damage while having 0 armor would be a good unit to use drakes against if you can. Obviously though, you cannot comprehend that and since the idea didn't come from you.....you had to belittle it. Well that leads me to belittle your idea and you cant handle that either so you go about insulting me by trying to say I am crying and throwing a tantrum. That is classic forum projection. Thus, pathetic.
  • DerpCatDerpCat Registered Users Posts: 448

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    I havnt used these at all in game but wouldn't they be a nice counter against a Greenskin army that uses Savage Orcs?

    thats weirdly specif, i mean lets be honest how many times is someone bringing a savage orc army? Rarely, that tinny little possibility justify having these otherwise useless units? i think not. I thnk it is common sense that they need to have other roles other than savage orc killers and that the moment they lack those targets, not to mention that quarrelers a much cheaper units gets the job done if not better.
    Wierdly specific? Have you never fought The Top Knotz? They use savage orcs and they have zero armor. If you crush The Greenskins then The Top Knotz usually survive and thrive.
    i couldnt give two **** about what army compositions a brainless AI army decides to use, MP is the real test to a units balance and in MP almost no one if actually anyone brings savage orc armies. And if they do its so rare the dwarf player wont be expecting it and probably wont bring the flame canon or the iron drakes in the first place but beet them with quarrelers
    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize this game was only MP or that I was only posting to you or that the value of a specific unit is only derived from MP.

    So basically I couldn't give two **** about your opinion if it is only based upon MP.

    No, the Top Knotz are not always dead by the time you can get to Iron Drakes. If all you do is paint the map, then perhaps but with my Dwarf campaign I was being pulled into fights to the North quite often. My Armies in the South beat down The Greenskins pretty well but I was in no hurry to fight the attrition of moving across the worst of The Badlands in order to wipe out The Topknotz.
    are you crying it feels like you're crying, anyway let me get this straight the devs could have made a faction lets call them faction "x" and faction x can only recruit goblin spearmen, so the dwarfs got a unit named "goblin ****" and these guys were **** at everything BUT they could take on armies of goblins at a time and because of that they would cost 1000p do you think thats a necessary unit? A balanced unit? MP IS the real test because units are faced with almost every scenario and army composition, and not just their ideal scenario that are presented in campaign... so you can have your tantrum i'll stick to my opinion
    Why is it that sad little persons such as you cannot take it when someone simply responds in kind? You have to do all this silly childish stuff such as saying I am throwing a tantrum and crying. No, I am merely telling you that your aggressive post was ignorant and silly. If anyone is throwing a tantrum over it, that is obviously you and thus you are simply trying to project your own emotional immaturity upon me.

    I mean, just look at this response. It is clearly an emotional one. Pathetic.
    So....what are you doing right now?
    I simply said i didnt give two **** about an AI army, and you found the appropriate response to be: "So basically I couldn't give two **** about your opinion" you started the attacks, and to get all worked up, seems like a tantrum to me... Also i really like you insulting people who insult, kind of a void statement when you think about it, but i'll take the high road, all is forgiven
    I don't give two **** about your high road or your forgiveness. You simply got what you asked for and now you want to act otherwise? So why would you think I would give two **** about your opinion? Nice attempt, but you still just look like you cant handle someone calling out your opinion for what it is.
    You got some anger issues my friend...
  • ImmaculateDeceptionImmaculateDeception Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,073
    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    I havnt used these at all in game but wouldn't they be a nice counter against a Greenskin army that uses Savage Orcs?

    thats weirdly specif, i mean lets be honest how many times is someone bringing a savage orc army? Rarely, that tinny little possibility justify having these otherwise useless units? i think not. I thnk it is common sense that they need to have other roles other than savage orc killers and that the moment they lack those targets, not to mention that quarrelers a much cheaper units gets the job done if not better.
    Wierdly specific? Have you never fought The Top Knotz? They use savage orcs and they have zero armor. If you crush The Greenskins then The Top Knotz usually survive and thrive.
    i couldnt give two **** about what army compositions a brainless AI army decides to use, MP is the real test to a units balance and in MP almost no one if actually anyone brings savage orc armies. And if they do its so rare the dwarf player wont be expecting it and probably wont bring the flame canon or the iron drakes in the first place but beet them with quarrelers
    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize this game was only MP or that I was only posting to you or that the value of a specific unit is only derived from MP.

    So basically I couldn't give two **** about your opinion if it is only based upon MP.

    No, the Top Knotz are not always dead by the time you can get to Iron Drakes. If all you do is paint the map, then perhaps but with my Dwarf campaign I was being pulled into fights to the North quite often. My Armies in the South beat down The Greenskins pretty well but I was in no hurry to fight the attrition of moving across the worst of The Badlands in order to wipe out The Topknotz.
    are you crying it feels like you're crying, anyway let me get this straight the devs could have made a faction lets call them faction "x" and faction x can only recruit goblin spearmen, so the dwarfs got a unit named "goblin ****" and these guys were **** at everything BUT they could take on armies of goblins at a time and because of that they would cost 1000p do you think thats a necessary unit? A balanced unit? MP IS the real test because units are faced with almost every scenario and army composition, and not just their ideal scenario that are presented in campaign... so you can have your tantrum i'll stick to my opinion
    Why is it that sad little persons such as you cannot take it when someone simply responds in kind? You have to do all this silly childish stuff such as saying I am throwing a tantrum and crying. No, I am merely telling you that your aggressive post was ignorant and silly. If anyone is throwing a tantrum over it, that is obviously you and thus you are simply trying to project your own emotional immaturity upon me.

    I mean, just look at this response. It is clearly an emotional one. Pathetic.
    So....what are you doing right now?
    I simply said i didnt give two **** about an AI army, and you found the appropriate response to be: "So basically I couldn't give two **** about your opinion" you started the attacks, and to get all worked up, seems like a tantrum to me... Also i really like you insulting people who insult, kind of a void statement when you think about it, but i'll take the high road, all is forgiven
    I don't give two **** about your high road or your forgiveness. You simply got what you asked for and now you want to act otherwise? So why would you think I would give two **** about your opinion? Nice attempt, but you still just look like you cant handle someone calling out your opinion for what it is.
    You got some anger issues my friend...
    Nope, don't. If you think I do then you should probably check out your own posts. You even have someone else calling you out on it. Fire Drakes work on 0 armour greenskin units. You hate that someone else thought of that instead of you thus why you continue to try and insult me instead of posting on topic. You could admit it since you want to take the "high road" but obviously you cant.
  • DerpCatDerpCat Registered Users Posts: 448
    edited June 2016

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    I havnt used these at all in game but wouldn't they be a nice counter against a Greenskin army that uses Savage Orcs?

    thats weirdly specif, i mean lets be honest how many times is someone bringing a savage orc army? Rarely, that tinny little possibility justify having these otherwise useless units? i think not. I thnk it is common sense that they need to have other roles other than savage orc killers and that the moment they lack those targets, not to mention that quarrelers a much cheaper units gets the job done if not better.
    Wierdly specific? Have you never fought The Top Knotz? They use savage orcs and they have zero armor. If you crush The Greenskins then The Top Knotz usually survive and thrive.
    i couldnt give two **** about what army compositions a brainless AI army decides to use, MP is the real test to a units balance and in MP almost no one if actually anyone brings savage orc armies. And if they do its so rare the dwarf player wont be expecting it and probably wont bring the flame canon or the iron drakes in the first place but beet them with quarrelers
    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize this game was only MP or that I was only posting to you or that the value of a specific unit is only derived from MP.

    So basically I couldn't give two **** about your opinion if it is only based upon MP.

    No, the Top Knotz are not always dead by the time you can get to Iron Drakes. If all you do is paint the map, then perhaps but with my Dwarf campaign I was being pulled into fights to the North quite often. My Armies in the South beat down The Greenskins pretty well but I was in no hurry to fight the attrition of moving across the worst of The Badlands in order to wipe out The Topknotz.
    are you crying it feels like you're crying, anyway let me get this straight the devs could have made a faction lets call them faction "x" and faction x can only recruit goblin spearmen, so the dwarfs got a unit named "goblin ****" and these guys were **** at everything BUT they could take on armies of goblins at a time and because of that they would cost 1000p do you think thats a necessary unit? A balanced unit? MP IS the real test because units are faced with almost every scenario and army composition, and not just their ideal scenario that are presented in campaign... so you can have your tantrum i'll stick to my opinion
    Why is it that sad little persons such as you cannot take it when someone simply responds in kind? You have to do all this silly childish stuff such as saying I am throwing a tantrum and crying. No, I am merely telling you that your aggressive post was ignorant and silly. If anyone is throwing a tantrum over it, that is obviously you and thus you are simply trying to project your own emotional immaturity upon me.

    I mean, just look at this response. It is clearly an emotional one. Pathetic.
    So....what are you doing right now?
    I simply said i didnt give two **** about an AI army, and you found the appropriate response to be: "So basically I couldn't give two **** about your opinion" you started the attacks, and to get all worked up, seems like a tantrum to me... Also i really like you insulting people who insult, kind of a void statement when you think about it, but i'll take the high road, all is forgiven
    I don't give two **** about your high road or your forgiveness. You simply got what you asked for and now you want to act otherwise? So why would you think I would give two **** about your opinion? Nice attempt, but you still just look like you cant handle someone calling out your opinion for what it is.
    You got some anger issues my friend...
    Nope, don't. If you think I do then you should probably check out your own posts. You even have someone else calling you out on it. Fire Drakes work on 0 armour greenskin units. You hate that someone else thought of that instead of you thus why you continue to try and insult me instead of posting on topic. You could admit it since you want to take the "high road" but obviously you cant.
    We all know fire drakes work on 0 armor units, who the hell said they didnt, go read the arguments that have been made before you rant. You are just plain incoherent... I've already said my argument, MP is the true test for a unit, and in MP they are not viable to which you responded "i dont give two **** about your opinion", but oh well... Your argument is that a faction that uses savage orks justifies the existence of an otherwise unbalanced unit... ok... you are just the loud minority here, other people have spoken and they stand with me that fire drakes need to change. You are just desperately striving for attention because almost no one else agrees with you... Do yourself a favor and go reed what has been said in this thread instead of blindly throwing insults.... pathetic
  • DerpCatDerpCat Registered Users Posts: 448
    edited June 2016
    Also i've gotten what i wanted from this thread, i know that the majority stand with me, and you are just a loud noise in a crowd, so as far as im concerned you can talk to yourself i've given you enough attention... Continue to rain down fire on those Top Knotz, but friendly advice stay out of MP, you'll get wrecked
  • rhinoinsomniacrhinoinsomniac Member Registered Users Posts: 950
    well, i am of the opinion that irondrakes are difficult to use and pretty underpowered because other units can do what they're sposed to much better. i only use them in campaign and in only one army for coolness and it's really hard to use them well cuz they're so damn slow and their fire arc and range really suck. the only times i've gotten great use out of them have been siege battles (cuz they have a ton of ammo compared to other units)
    siege battles are different and allow yeh to position troops with more ease than field battles

    the only thing i disagree with yeh, DerpCat, and even ImmaculateDeception is just that y'all are using this thread as a personal arguing ground. and the language and obvious anger. chill out guys. you can't kill each other thro the screen so just laugh a little and chill.


    honey will catch more flies than vinegar

    Team Lizardmen


  • ImmaculateDeceptionImmaculateDeception Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,073
    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    DerpCat said:

    I havnt used these at all in game but wouldn't they be a nice counter against a Greenskin army that uses Savage Orcs?

    thats weirdly specif, i mean lets be honest how many times is someone bringing a savage orc army? Rarely, that tinny little possibility justify having these otherwise useless units? i think not. I thnk it is common sense that they need to have other roles other than savage orc killers and that the moment they lack those targets, not to mention that quarrelers a much cheaper units gets the job done if not better.
    Wierdly specific? Have you never fought The Top Knotz? They use savage orcs and they have zero armor. If you crush The Greenskins then The Top Knotz usually survive and thrive.
    i couldnt give two **** about what army compositions a brainless AI army decides to use, MP is the real test to a units balance and in MP almost no one if actually anyone brings savage orc armies. And if they do its so rare the dwarf player wont be expecting it and probably wont bring the flame canon or the iron drakes in the first place but beet them with quarrelers
    Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize this game was only MP or that I was only posting to you or that the value of a specific unit is only derived from MP.

    So basically I couldn't give two **** about your opinion if it is only based upon MP.

    No, the Top Knotz are not always dead by the time you can get to Iron Drakes. If all you do is paint the map, then perhaps but with my Dwarf campaign I was being pulled into fights to the North quite often. My Armies in the South beat down The Greenskins pretty well but I was in no hurry to fight the attrition of moving across the worst of The Badlands in order to wipe out The Topknotz.
    are you crying it feels like you're crying, anyway let me get this straight the devs could have made a faction lets call them faction "x" and faction x can only recruit goblin spearmen, so the dwarfs got a unit named "goblin ****" and these guys were **** at everything BUT they could take on armies of goblins at a time and because of that they would cost 1000p do you think thats a necessary unit? A balanced unit? MP IS the real test because units are faced with almost every scenario and army composition, and not just their ideal scenario that are presented in campaign... so you can have your tantrum i'll stick to my opinion
    Why is it that sad little persons such as you cannot take it when someone simply responds in kind? You have to do all this silly childish stuff such as saying I am throwing a tantrum and crying. No, I am merely telling you that your aggressive post was ignorant and silly. If anyone is throwing a tantrum over it, that is obviously you and thus you are simply trying to project your own emotional immaturity upon me.

    I mean, just look at this response. It is clearly an emotional one. Pathetic.
    So....what are you doing right now?
    I simply said i didnt give two **** about an AI army, and you found the appropriate response to be: "So basically I couldn't give two **** about your opinion" you started the attacks, and to get all worked up, seems like a tantrum to me... Also i really like you insulting people who insult, kind of a void statement when you think about it, but i'll take the high road, all is forgiven
    I don't give two **** about your high road or your forgiveness. You simply got what you asked for and now you want to act otherwise? So why would you think I would give two **** about your opinion? Nice attempt, but you still just look like you cant handle someone calling out your opinion for what it is.
    You got some anger issues my friend...
    Nope, don't. If you think I do then you should probably check out your own posts. You even have someone else calling you out on it. Fire Drakes work on 0 armour greenskin units. You hate that someone else thought of that instead of you thus why you continue to try and insult me instead of posting on topic. You could admit it since you want to take the "high road" but obviously you cant.
    We all know fire drakes work on 0 armor units, who the hell said they didnt, go read the arguments that have been made before you rant. You are just plain incoherent... I've already said my argument, MP is the true test for a unit, and in MP they are not viable to which you responded "i dont give two **** about your opinion", but oh well... Your argument is that a faction that uses savage orks justifies the existence of an otherwise unbalanced unit... ok... you are just the loud minority here, other people have spoken and they stand with me that fire drakes need to change. You are just desperately striving for attention because almost no one else agrees with you... Do yourself a favor and go reed what has been said in this thread instead of blindly throwing insults.... pathetic
    Blah blah blah....pathetic.

    MP is not a true test of a unit. The game is made for SP. I'm sorry if you mistook TW as an MP first game but you are completely mistaken at that.

    It should be pretty clear that the game was created with SP first. That is why MP whiners like you throw temper tantrums every time you try to point out problems in MP.

    You think EVERYTHING needs to change. Quite frankly I don't give a damn whether or not Fire Drakes get changed. I merely pointed out that they would work well in stopping a flanking attack from Savage Orcs, which are very good in flanking attacks. You absolutely cannot stand any contradictory posts to yours which is why you are now claiming it is the entire world of posters with you against lonely ole me.

    Pathetic.
  • ImmaculateDeceptionImmaculateDeception Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,073
    DerpCat said:

    Also i've gotten what i wanted from this thread, i know that the majority stand with me, and you are just a loud noise in a crowd, so as far as im concerned you can talk to yourself i've given you enough attention... Continue to rain down fire on those Top Knotz, but friendly advice stay out of MP, you'll get wrecked

    LOL

    Was this a Crusade against Fire Drakes? What is truly funny is that you had the audacity to say I had anger issues. Just look at you. Telling me I will get wrecked because I don't stand with you in a conversation about Fire Drakes? Go to bed kid.
  • ImmaculateDeceptionImmaculateDeception Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,073
    edited June 2016

    well, i am of the opinion that irondrakes are difficult to use and pretty underpowered because other units can do what they're sposed to much better. i only use them in campaign and in only one army for coolness and it's really hard to use them well cuz they're so damn slow and their fire arc and range really suck. the only times i've gotten great use out of them have been siege battles (cuz they have a ton of ammo compared to other units)
    siege battles are different and allow yeh to position troops with more ease than field battles

    the only thing i disagree with yeh, DerpCat, and even ImmaculateDeception is just that y'all are using this thread as a personal arguing ground. and the language and obvious anger. chill out guys. you can't kill each other thro the screen so just laugh a little and chill.

    Oh I am laughing, quite a bit, so don't you worry about me. I will just keep on laughing at the kid that thinks that he will make a difference with this post when this game is based on MP. Making whiney threads and posts about every single unit that doesn't work properly isn't going to get him anywhere. It's quite clear I am already killing him through the screen. He is having a serious tantrum. It's clear because he had to make back to back posts that weren't responses to different posts. LOL
  • Mac_Mac_MacMac_Mac_Mac Registered Users Posts: 120
    Greetings fellow gamers. if I'm not mistaken, according to the Lore, Firedrakes where created as a counter in underground battles where the Skaven armies where tight together in chokepoints.
    Maybe that's it's use, firing against highly packed unists of infantry. Even because I saw Firedrakes shooting down a vargulf, 1 full unit of zombies and 1 full unit of skeletons warriors that where fighting my dwarf warriors(Quest battle for the Book of Grudges). Perhaps they have an explosive ammunition.
    It seems they even outperformed quarrellers and thunderers in this matter. Where quarrellers and thunderers required 1 shot to deal damage to 1 model in a unit, Firedrakes required 1 shot to damage more models that were tightly packed.

    As for the Trolls, while they are vulnerable to fire, they have large HP, needing a bigger punch to bring them down. I think that's why Firedrakes armed with Trollhammer Torpedos are for.

    If you may, please make your own tests regarding these matters.

    Trolls and Arachnarok Spiders do indeed have armor, not in the common sense, as a piece of metal straped on them, but trolls have ther thick skin and spiders have their exoskeletons that function as armor. READ ARMOR HERE AS PROTECTION AGAINST DAMAGE.


    TL;DR?

    Firedrakes - good against highly packed infantry.
    Firedrakes (Trollhammer torpedos) - good against Trolls and others large/huge units.
    Armor for Trolls, Arachnarok Spider, Crypt Horrors, etc - Thick Skin, Exoskeleton. Regard 'Armor' as 'Protection Against Damage'.

    PLEASE TEST THESE UNITS IN THE CENARIOS MENTIONED SO AS TO SEE IF THE RESULTS MATCH.
  • TheRainbowDwarfTheRainbowDwarf Registered Users Posts: 441
    edited June 2016
    There's nothing these Irondrake variants due that's better than other missile units, except take up less real estate on the map.

    Flame Version

    1) Range is very small. You have to get quite close to use them. It can shoot over friendlies, but they need some room to arc it and even then not the entire unit fires (easily obstructed)
    2) When shooting into combat, unless you can line up a flank shot, a lot of damage is wasted in overshots.
    3) It's best as counter-archer support (raining fire on the back line) as those targets are usually lightly armored, or if the enemy is dumb enough to ram all of his units into a single blob.

    But due to the range I'd always take 2 units of Quarellers instead for 150 more points. I have been using them the last few days, and they are always underwhelming. I did watch them break two units of peasant archers in rather short order, which are probably among the best targets. But Quarellers would have done it much easier, as the amount of micro involved to get those clean shots (and my opponent didn't use the immense range of long bows) more than lost any advantage in rapid damage dealing the Irondrakes have. Rather than waddling into a good position to shoot, quarrelers would be shooting the entire time.

    Against regening big targets, they don't do enough damage per hit to matter (most of it is splash and it gets wasted on monstrous units and monsters). 20% extra damage doesn't matter. Maybe against Plaguebearers when they become a thing.

    Troll Hammer Version

    1) Again with the range.
    2) Low rate of fire
    3) Miss a LOT, even against stationary targets at max range

    Thunderers are better, they do similar damage over time at longer range, and are less easily disrupted than a small number of little tanks. And are more accurate. At very short ranges the Trollhammers hit a lot. But the ROF means that's usually just 1 volley before they get run over. Or you're close enough to the infantry line large enemies can just push through and into contact with the Irondrakes!

    The main advantage Troll Hammers have is knockdown capability against Monstrous infantry (doesn't work on Monsters).

    They can work against cavalry, but the range and accuracy and rate of fire make that mean they only work when shooting into a sustained combat against cavalry. Miners charging into that cavalry would do more damage and have a better effect.

    ***
    Suggestions
    ***
    The flame version needs more AOE damage or slightly faster ROF. It's fine if it only works against 30 or less armor units well. But 2 Quarellers are just flat out better in this role. The lack of range on the flame throwers mostly negates the small formation advantages. They need to be very brutal in the range they do get.

    The Trollhammer needs more range (they had Xbow range in TT, but you only had 1 per unit) and better accuracy. These would not improve how they work against blasting big targets for the most part (which they can do ok in) but it would help a lot with fliers and cavalry. 17 second reload is also pretty grim, proportional change between ROF and Damage (shoot more often for less damage per shot for same Damage over time) would be nice. Heavily microed units laugh at them as by the time you setup a shot, they are in your face or out of range, or your guys are standing there waiting for that long reload.

    Hell, the reload is so long they can miss out on the entire buff from the Master Engineer as it can run it's course between volleys!
  • DeuzerreDeuzerre Member Registered Users Posts: 939
    OK, so I tried firebreathing fire drakes extensively for testing.

    They -can- be great, but that requires a lot of mistakes from the opponent.

    The main problem comes from the fact that it's a 1000 gold unit for barely any men. With the number of men it has, its specialized role against weak to fire units and lightly armored infantry, they aren't great. The best use is generally in team battles where your ally can block the enemy cavalry and where spells can be used to hold off giants and the like to prevent them from going through. Then, move them from behind your lines and flast against big blobs. It's awesome.
  • MellyonzMellyonz Registered Users Posts: 40
    I use them to break moral. I can set up a kill box with just a front line quarreler, thunderers and then iron drakes in front. they destroy any low moral unit. I have then split armies in 2 from this. and i push out and kill the flanks easy win.
  • MellyonzMellyonz Registered Users Posts: 40
    I played two armies one with and without iron drakes and the speed at which I can route even dwarfs is frightening. Most armies biggest weakness is morale.
    I now have 4 iron drakes per army.
  • Mac_Mac_MacMac_Mac_Mac Registered Users Posts: 120
    Mellyonz, that's an interesting way to use them. Definitely going to try this next time I play with firedrakes. XD
  • Mac_Mac_MacMac_Mac_Mac Registered Users Posts: 120
    Just an update from my last post. Tested Lord + 3 Dwarf Warriors + 4 firedrakes against 5 zombies, second test 5 skeleton spearmen, third test 5 Grave Guard, and the result was as Mellyons said, big hit on enemy morale to the point that when I did 1(firedrake)v1(undead) the unded unit reached my line with less than half the morale. Similar results with the flame cannon(Killed enemy necromancer in the process, hahahahah funny).

    Even against Grave Guards the Firedrakes did a considerable amount of damage, not like quarellers or thunderes would do, but nothing to be ashamed of.

    Definitely going to use Firedrakes in my Dwarf campaign from now on.
Sign In or Register to comment.