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BEASTMEN DLC - We need Ghorgon, Doombull and Tuskgor Chariot

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  • dodge33cymrudodge33cymru Registered Users Posts: 1,864

    Okay, i'm putting my foot down - how under Morrslieb's Gaze is a Tuskgor Chariot iconic? :D

    Because in TT it was a core choice. Allowing a Beastmen player to have unlimited pumba-gor chariots up to the points limit. So every sane Beastmen player used them.
    While it is an explanation, I think it doesn't justify putting it into the game as Beastmen already have one monstrous chariot.

    Please note that that this statement isn't aimed at you personally but it's connected to your comment and because quote system works as it does it stands there.
    Every beastmen army has tuskgor chariots though, never seen a TT force without one. Razorgor are johnny come latelies and certainly not deserving of being the priority IMO. For example, I would be gutted if they have lion chariots (lore-breaking 8th ed addition) for High Elves rather than the historic Tyranioc Chariot.

    Oh, and OP, no "we" and no "need" please. You won't die without it and personally I'm fine without a doom bull or Ghorgon.
  • Blood_DragonBlood_Dragon Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 882
    edited July 2016
    Inappropriate comment removed.

    Why do you have a problem with people wanting more from the DLC that costs so much? Is it really that incomprehensible to you that someone could feel a little bit cheated when they have to pay X amount for a DLC and not get their money's worth?
    Post edited by dge1 on

    "Victory or death, there is no other outcome. Honour is everything. I am a knight of the Ordo Draconis, and I will achieve perfection."
  • Blood_DragonBlood_Dragon Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 882
    So breasts are bad, but blood guts and gore flying through the air, decapitated and dismembered bodies, and general horrible violence, are OK?

    "Victory or death, there is no other outcome. Honour is everything. I am a knight of the Ordo Draconis, and I will achieve perfection."
  • StoreslemStoreslem Registered Users Posts: 304
    jabberslythe is basically a vargheist reskin just bigger so no reason to not add it.
    and rat ogre is varghulf reskin when skaven is released. they dont need to create units from scratch aka CA is lazy with rosters
  • sigrsigr Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 714

    This is probably going to be the last ever Warhammer Fantasy Battles video game. So far it's been the best of the lot. But it needs all the tabletop units (or the vast majority of them). MAKE IT COMPLETE!

    We want more units, more variety, more depth!

    But more importantly, the Beastmen roster is small anyway to begin with. Now it's even smaller because you're cutting out these units. Also, you're charging so much for such a tiny army list.

    Hear hear.
    <insert witty signature>
    Team Parthia
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    Team Ikko-Ikki
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    Please return the Parthian avatar to the profile picture choices.
  • sigrsigr Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 714
    DeuZerre said:


    Breasts may have something to do with it IMO.

    CA could probably just "fur them over", so to speak.
    <insert witty signature>
    Team Parthia
    Team England
    Team Maratha Confederacy
    Team Ikko-Ikki
    Team Something-Something-Germanic
    Team Tomb King, but until then Greenskin

    Please return the Parthian avatar to the profile picture choices.
  • ladymissfitladymissfit Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,732
    Eh, don't mind the Jabber being gone at all personally. never really felt it worked that well conceptually.

    Now the Cockatrice on the other hand...
    Chaos lords should be women

    Why is no one talking about mouth feel!?
  • DeathofjamsDeathofjams Registered Users Posts: 290
    edited July 2016

    Why do you have a problem with people wanting more from the DLC that costs so much? Is it really that incomprehensible to you that someone could feel a little bit cheated when they have to pay X amount for a DLC and not get their money's worth?

    I think you're misunderstanding the argument. Pretty much no-one is saying that people shouldn't say that they don't think the DLC is worth the price - this, after all, is a completely subjective point-of-view, as value means something different to everyone. For most people in the world, after all, this DLC is worth nothing whatsoever.

    However, I take issue with a related argument, which occurs when take this point about personal desires and turn it into a broader, moralistic one, implying that CA are somehow harming people or performing some sort of moral wrong by choosing a high price point. Which is kind of silly. No-one is being cheated or exploited, as anyone who doesn't think it's worth it can simply choose not to buy.

    In other words, I disapprove of the move from one argument, "I *want* this DLC to be cheaper/have more content" to another, "this DLC *should* be cheaper/have more content (i.e. CA have some sort of objective moral obligation to provide more content at a lower price)". The former is completely fair. The latter is not: it implies a sense of entitlement totally inappropriate for discussions about a luxury entertainment product, and completely ignores the real-world economic and financial constraints on game production.
    Post edited by dge1 on
  • IzzyStradlinIzzyStradlin Senior Member Karaz BrynRegistered Users Posts: 11,118
    edited July 2016

    Why do you have a problem with people wanting more from the DLC that costs so much? Is it really that incomprehensible to you that someone could feel a little bit cheated when they have to pay X amount for a DLC and not get their money's worth?

    Myself, I merely found the suggestion that the Tuskgor Chariot is iconic roughly as amusing as the suggestion that the Spirit Host is. :p

    I suppose that I ought to attempt an actual reply to the thread, though - no-where has it been said that that the full roster will never appear, is my reading of it. Merely, it has been said why it has not yet appeared. Sure, i'd probably prefer the full Wood Elves or Vampire Counts roster as soon as possible, if not at launch in the former case, but i'm pretty relaxed about it. So long as I have my damned Great-Eagle Spellweavers. :(
    Post edited by dge1 on
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  • HorseDroppingsHorseDroppings Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 334
    edited July 2016
    Would a Jabberslythe not be pretty similar to a manticore? Apart from the head.
  • StoreslemStoreslem Registered Users Posts: 304

    Would a Jabberslythe not be pretty similar to a manticore? Apart from the head.

    yeah thast even better or wyvern
  • rhinoinsomniacrhinoinsomniac Member Registered Users Posts: 950
    Sbygneus said:

    Earlybird said:

    So why are they not included ?

    Thats exactly what I thought! Should not be THAT hard to reskin.
    it's not a reskin.

    the word "reskin" is really being thrown around way too much. vargheists and harpies are a different shape.
    that means they would be different models. different meshes. that means it's not just a simple "reskin"

    reskin really just means retexture.

    so since these two unit entities are different shape meaning they need different models which means 3D sculpting, it also means they prolly need different animations, otherwise stuff would look weird.

    now - it really would be simple to just mod harpies by just copying the assets of vargheists, naming em harpies, lowering their scale in the variants_table , putting all the stuff in the right places so they can be recruited, used in custom battles stuff like that
    - but they really would look like smaller vargheists and about the only thing that could be changed about their look currently is their texture.

    here - read some stuff that i thought was helpful cuz i know all these 3D graphics terms are a little confusing
    http://blog.digitaltutors.com/cover-bases-common-3d-texturing-terminology/


    honey will catch more flies than vinegar

    Team Lizardmen


  • GRAY_HATGRAY_HAT Senior Member UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,394
    edited July 2016

    So breasts are bad, but blood guts and gore flying through the air, decapitated and dismembered bodies, and general horrible violence, are OK?

    welcome to the west, it all makes sense if you don't ask why.


    OT:

    Are harpies actually a beastmen unit or are they just nicked because GW panicked when they saw how few models they could sell to the furries?
    Team Wood Elves

    boyfights loves wood elves.

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    "It's amazing how many mistakes your enemy will make in haste after seeing that he's outgunned" -The Organ King
  • gatormarinediazgatormarinediaz Member Registered Users Posts: 408

    So breasts are bad, but blood guts and gore flying through the air, decapitated and dismembered bodies, and general horrible violence, are OK?

    It comes down to age ratings, ultimately. It may be that the ESRB or PEGI system (or both) would necessitate an 18+ age rating for the Beastmen DLC if they included the bare-breasted, totally nude harpies, and locking a whole race behind an age rating like that is probably not worth it to CA for one unit.

    I kind of hope, if this is going to be a problem, that there will be an adult DLC for things like Harpies, Dark Elves and Slaanesh. I hope this isn't the problem, but if it is I'd be down for paying a couple bucks for a few extra units.
  • GRAY_HATGRAY_HAT Senior Member UKRegistered Users Posts: 5,394
    edited July 2016

    Why do you have a problem with people wanting more from the DLC that costs so much? Is it really that incomprehensible to you that someone could feel a little bit cheated when they have to pay X amount for a DLC and not get their money's worth?

    because the doomsayers make hundreds of threads (mostly merged now), demanding ("we need") for their idea for the DLC to be the one used?

    I may have been a little fanboyish over the last few days, memories of clients that don't understand how long certain things take to program and want you to just add this (upto £1000 worth) as part of the work I'm doing for them might fave something to do with it, but Unlike most of these threads I haven't pre-ordered the DLC because I'm not convinced of the value to me (wood elf fan boy)
    Post edited by dge1 on
    Team Wood Elves

    boyfights loves wood elves.

    "Heaven forbid that under the Vail of military training we should subject our young men to the lust of our general" - Hanno to the Carthaginian senate on the future of Hannibal.

    "Guard mode is back in Warhammer :)" - Darren_CA

    "It's amazing how many mistakes your enemy will make in haste after seeing that he's outgunned" -The Organ King
  • WraithzsWraithzs Member Registered Users Posts: 62
    If you think it just a simple reskin your wrong the harpies would need a new skeleton
  • RadiousRadious Senior Member Czech RepublicRegistered Users Posts: 1,277
    Complete rosters and additions/enlarging the GC - what most TW players always wanted. Mini campaigns were never so popular and this time with Beastmen is ultra tiny and with no replaybility due to only 1 playable faction.

    Adding 3-5 more unique missing units to Beastmen and increase size of GC map would be wanted by milion more people and nobody would complain about poor roster or expensive dlc.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 22,927
    Radious said:

    Complete rosters and additions/enlarging the GC - what most TW players always wanted. Mini campaigns were never so popular and this time with Beastmen is ultra tiny and with no replaybility due to only 1 playable faction.

    Adding 3-5 more unique missing units to Beastmen and increase size of GC map would be wanted by milion more people and nobody would complain about poor roster or expensive dlc.

    Played the campaign already?

    Or how can you already judge it's got no replayability?

  • Blood_DragonBlood_Dragon Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 882
    edited July 2016
    @grayhat

    It may be true that there are some toxic whiners, but there is a very good reason that a lot of people are voicing criticism and concern. Not only is the Beastmen army list (which isn't cheap!) woefully incomplete and missing some really iconic units (the Ghorgon, Doombull and JABBERSLYTHE) but this also is not a good sign for the future. Next they'll be charging £15 for one unit, like the Tabletop!

    Post edited by dge1 on

    "Victory or death, there is no other outcome. Honour is everything. I am a knight of the Ordo Draconis, and I will achieve perfection."
  • RadiousRadious Senior Member Czech RepublicRegistered Users Posts: 1,277

    Radious said:

    Complete rosters and additions/enlarging the GC - what most TW players always wanted. Mini campaigns were never so popular and this time with Beastmen is ultra tiny and with no replaybility due to only 1 playable faction.

    Adding 3-5 more unique missing units to Beastmen and increase size of GC map would be wanted by milion more people and nobody would complain about poor roster or expensive dlc.

    Played the campaign already?

    Or how can you already judge it's got no replayability?
    1 line of quests, same every time, 1 playable race, few provinces only - how to have any replaybility in that? Would not be better to place new area into GC, story quests place into GC and have it with all together so you can interfere with all playable factions?
  • Blood_DragonBlood_Dragon Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 882
    Wraithzs said:

    If you think it just a simple reskin your wrong the harpies would need a new skeleton

    Fine. They should have no problem doing it. It's their friggin' JOB.

    They don't do it for free, they aren't handing it out like good Samaritans. They're charging money for it, creating a demand, and then satisfying that demand... only they aren't because they cut corners all the time.

    "Victory or death, there is no other outcome. Honour is everything. I am a knight of the Ordo Draconis, and I will achieve perfection."
  • JavorJavor Registered Users Posts: 910
    Tuskgor chariots are iconic because when someone says "beastmen" one of the main units that spring to mind is tuskgor chariots (for people who actually played the TT game, that is). Beastmen armies fielded a lot of these chariots, and it was one of their strengths.

    If we take the other factions into account, only the greenskins are missing out on similarily iconic units: squigs. That's just my opinion though.

    Jabberslythes are new additions, and were pretty crap, thus rarely used. They are in no way iconic for beastmen. I think the problem is that you don't really get what iconic means (no offense meant with this!!)

    Ghorgons and Cygors stem from the time when GW decides to go full-on lazy-mode (very clever from a financial point of view) with their unit Kits. They are exactly the same unit, save for one having one eye, and the other having an additional pair of arms.

    An example of this can be seen with the Slaughterbrute and the vortex beast for chaos, same unit, but with different heads. Neither of these have been missed much, or debated much about either, because they aren't iconic in any way, shape or form.
  • PerfectVictoryPerfectVictory Registered Users Posts: 121
    edited July 2016

    There isn't good reason to gripe about the price. You haven't seen the finished product and you haven't played it.

    The only "reactionary" viewpoints on this forum right now are those trying to ignorantly judge this DLC without having seen it.

    I really don't get that logic. It's like you want me to say to myself "I don't know anything, I should just keep buying things that I don't feel good about and should stay silent when I feel like I'm being ripped off".
    I'm not surprised you don't get it. You can most certainly feel like you are being ripped off but you have no idea if you actually are. For whatever reason, there is something to it that you don't like so you immediately think you are being ripped off.

    Guess what, no one is forcing you to buy it, so don't buy it. Therefore, you aren't being ripped off if you decided to buy it. You may or may not end up with some buyer's remorse but that happens all the time. At least with buyer's remorse, the buyer actually bought the product AND THEN decided that it wasn't worth the price. You don't know that about this DLC yet.


    No one told you to buy it ignorantly or to stay silent. Do you always create straw men arguments to argue against when someone says something you don't like? That is exactly what you did with this post of yours.
    Post edited by dge1 on
  • SbygneusSbygneus Registered Users Posts: 799

    Sbygneus said:

    Earlybird said:

    So why are they not included ?

    Thats exactly what I thought! Should not be THAT hard to reskin.
    it's not a reskin.

    the word "reskin" is really being thrown around way too much. vargheists and harpies are a different shape.
    that means they would be different models. different meshes. that means it's not just a simple "reskin"

    reskin really just means retexture.

    so since these two unit entities are different shape meaning they need different models which means 3D sculpting, it also means they prolly need different animations, otherwise stuff would look weird.

    now - it really would be simple to just mod harpies by just copying the assets of vargheists, naming em harpies, lowering their scale in the variants_table , putting all the stuff in the right places so they can be recruited, used in custom battles stuff like that
    - but they really would look like smaller vargheists and about the only thing that could be changed about their look currently is their texture.

    here - read some stuff that i thought was helpful cuz i know all these 3D graphics terms are a little confusing
    http://blog.digitaltutors.com/cover-bases-common-3d-texturing-terminology/
    ok I am not an expert. thanks for info
  • WraithzsWraithzs Member Registered Users Posts: 62
    edited July 2016
    Whiners don't seem to understand that if you want change

    you will have to be an adult and don't buy the dlc like CA say

    If enough people don't buy than clearly their way of going about DLC is wrong don't complain about the price take action

    Action speak louder than words
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 22,927
    Radious said:

    Radious said:

    Complete rosters and additions/enlarging the GC - what most TW players always wanted. Mini campaigns were never so popular and this time with Beastmen is ultra tiny and with no replaybility due to only 1 playable faction.

    Adding 3-5 more unique missing units to Beastmen and increase size of GC map would be wanted by milion more people and nobody would complain about poor roster or expensive dlc.

    Played the campaign already?

    Or how can you already judge it's got no replayability?
    1 line of quests, same every time, 1 playable race, few provinces only - how to have any replaybility in that? Would not be better to place new area into GC, story quests place into GC and have it with all together so you can interfere with all playable factions?
    I ask again, did you already play it? I don't trust self-proclaimed oracles.

  • WraithzsWraithzs Member Registered Users Posts: 62
    edited July 2016

    Wraithzs said:

    If you think it just a simple reskin your wrong the harpies would need a new skeleton

    Fine. They should have no problem doing it. It's their friggin' JOB.

    They don't do it for free, they aren't handing it out like good Samaritans. They're charging money for it, creating a demand, and then satisfying that demand... only they aren't because they cut corners all the time.
    Yah it their job and they have a budget and the harpies didn't make it in
  • DalakhDalakh Senior Member FranceRegistered Users Posts: 1,937
    Some one can't count up to six limbs.
    "We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

    — Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth
  • dodge33cymrudodge33cymru Registered Users Posts: 1,864

    And Lizardmen? Tomb Kings? Ogre Kingdoms etc.?

    They will go the same way? God...

    Might just be my opinion, but they each need to. Those are three that were pretty accurately summarised by @Mustachio_Furioso above, rosters padded with units in the final edition due to GW's desperation. Tomb Kings in particular got destroyed for me in the final edition, they went from being masses of skeleton warriors, archers, cavalry and chariots to just monster after monster. Would love to see half of those monsters cut out.


    Radious said:


    Adding 3-5 more unique missing units to Beastmen and increase size of GC map would be wanted by milion more people and nobody would complain about poor roster or expensive dlc.

    Ha, I would. I'd rather they added those units to Middenheim or to different human factions instead. If a Jabberslythe is worth the entire of Age of Charlemagne, budget-wise, I'd love to see a pack expand Tilean cities, Estalia, Kislev and other Empire states before one flying monster that no lore-history anyway and it should cost roughly the same amount.


    grayhat said:


    memories of clients that don't understand how long certain things take to program and want you to just add this (upto £1000 worth) as part of the work I'm doing for them might fave something to do with it,

    Amen brother. Also, I'm getting accused of being a blind fanboy here too, but I'm certainly not buying this pack at full price either.

    By the way, @Mustachio_Furioso 's post above is excellent, should be stickied to the top any time someone asks why some 8th edition monster isn't available. If only CA had seen fit to leave out demigryph knights too... @Deathofjams is also pretty spot on about business practice in all these threads and @PerfectVictory has an enviable level of patience! Kudos to you all.


  • LudboneLudbone Registered Users Posts: 1,158
    Radious said:

    Complete rosters and additions/enlarging the GC - what most TW players always wanted. Mini campaigns were never so popular and this time with Beastmen is ultra tiny and with no replaybility due to only 1 playable faction.

    Adding 3-5 more unique missing units to Beastmen and increase size of GC map would be wanted by milion more people and nobody would complain about poor roster or expensive dlc.

    I agree.

    The fandom (and others) wants new units, these 3-5 new MISSING units.
    I think Call of the Beastmen will sell very well if they add Ghorgon, Doombull, Harpies and Tuskgor Chariot (maybe even Jabber).

    Happy shoppers for what they want. Happy CA for sales.
    Beastmen: where is the love?


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