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People are entitled.

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  • Zatrakus95Zatrakus95 Posts: 708Registered Users
    edited July 2016
    jamreal18 said:

    jamreal18 said:

    In my opinion, unit cutting started with Chaos Warrios dlc.

    No one spoke up about the units that were not present in steam page.

    I thought those missing units would be released when I saw the freeLC plan of CA.

    But when it was released, no one still asked about those units....

    I made a thread and many said im just complaining...

    Glad now that players are starting to voice up their opinion about missing units.....

    If by voicing you mean accusing and insulting than perhaps it would be better if they stood silent and showed their resistance by not buying the dlc.
    In this thread,

    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/179419/opinion-about-unit-freelc/p1

    I just said my opinion is that the free dlc is underwhelming, ... did i say anything wrong?

    Take a look at people's response!!

    Who is accusing and insulting then??

    Edited.
    I meant people calling CA lazy, this dlc a cash grab and so on. It wasn't aimed at you or any user in particular. I'm not defending ones who attack complainers as they break the rules as well and should be punished for it. My message is simple- we, users and CA employees are all humans, civilized, mature adults and we should respect each other. Claiming that CA tries to cheat us with their dlc or lies to us without any proof is wrong. Calling someone a fool or worse for having a differnet stance on any matter is just as bad. Just because I agree with overall message of a comment doesn't mean I won't report it for false accusations, personal attacks, cynisms and other behaviours that lead to the atmosphere of the forums turning toxic.
    Post edited by dge1 on
  • ShogokiKoaShogokiKoa Posts: 91Registered Users
    Tzarken said:


    Yes, there is such a customer base in gaming, for Star Citizen, people have bought ingame only ships for hundreds of real world dollars, each. The dev even said that it was just to support the development of the game and those ships can be earned normally in game when the game fully launches.

    That's actually the opposite of the point i'm raising.

    I know there are "some" people wanting to invest lots of money in one game. I know with microtransactions having only a few but paying more works out in the end.

    But as to DLC, if the same number pay 20$ (and only 20$, they're not gonna buy the same dlc thrice) and that number is low, is it sustainable.

    What % of the people who bought the vanilla game will buy 7 / 6 / 5 / 4 / 3 / 2 / 1 DLC and what is reasonnable pricing based on that, is my question.
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Posts: 3,041Registered Users
    Hmmm, I think I know how to answer your question.

    If the game is like WOW. (multiple expansions) I will surely buy it.
    If the game shows to just churn out dlc like a printer. I will most likely not buy it. (due to the fear of being milked to the death of me lol)

    I tend to look more favorably upon expansions then dlc.
    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Posts: 3,041Registered Users
    The reasonable pricing part of your question to me is impossible to answer because no one knows what's going to be on dlc's 3-7 (except wood-elves)
    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
  • Sky_SweeperrSky_Sweeperr Senior Member OklahomaPosts: 1,701Registered Users
    Dr_Mold said:

    I've read a lot of posts about how people are "outraged" or feel cheated over the upcoming DLC. Because there's not a full roster? Because of the price? They even released a QA explaining it and still people are mad for no real reason other than they feel entitled.

    For one, we should be lucky this product exists at all. It's a luxury item, it's made for us to have fun and take a break from the real world **** that's going on. Second, like a book to a movie, you can't compare the miniatures to the game. (And from what I understand, those miniatures aren't cheap). Things HAVE to be different in the video game format, you can't just copy and paste. Just like you can't copy and paste a book into a movie or it'll be horrible. I don't know if people don't know economics, or what, but unless we want to pay 50$ and wait another three months for them to do one race, I'll take the beast men as is.

    From people whining about not getting information on upcoming DLC (after it only being out for 1 month), to enraged at the DLC announcement, I feel most of the people on this forum are young and entitled. This isn't the tabletop, nothing is done for free, we should be happy we have this amazing game in the first place.

    I get emotions get high over things people love, but let's remember this is a video game, people are dying out there, save your high strung emotions for something that matters and let's all thank this amazing company for even making a game this cool and trying their hardest to do so.

    Yes because We can totally do something about the bad stuff going on in the world... seriously, that's what you're resorting to? The "There's worse things going on in the world than this" argument? Yeah, there is, there ALWAYS is. Us buying or not buying this DLC isn't going to do anything about that and neither is us getting or not getting mad about the price of it. That's like trying to say not to eat crab for dinner because the alaskan snow crab is being over fished and going extinct, and even THAT analogy has more linkage than the comparison you're trying to make between people being upset at over-priced content and world problems.

    It's not a luxury item, it's an entertainment item. Those are greatly different things. Remember that.
    A brave man marches into danger and ignores his fear. A courageous man marches into danger while embracing his fear.

    OS: Windows 7 Premium 64 bit
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  • MasqueradeMasquerade Posts: 292Registered Users
    edited July 2016

    Dr_Mold said:

    I've read a lot of posts about how people are "outraged" or feel cheated over the upcoming DLC. Because there's not a full roster? Because of the price? They even released a QA explaining it and still people are mad for no real reason other than they feel entitled.

    For one, we should be lucky this product exists at all. It's a luxury item, it's made for us to have fun and take a break from the real world **** that's going on. Second, like a book to a movie, you can't compare the miniatures to the game. (And from what I understand, those miniatures aren't cheap). Things HAVE to be different in the video game format, you can't just copy and paste. Just like you can't copy and paste a book into a movie or it'll be horrible. I don't know if people don't know economics, or what, but unless we want to pay 50$ and wait another three months for them to do one race, I'll take the beast men as is.

    From people whining about not getting information on upcoming DLC (after it only being out for 1 month), to enraged at the DLC announcement, I feel most of the people on this forum are young and entitled. This isn't the tabletop, nothing is done for free, we should be happy we have this amazing game in the first place.

    I get emotions get high over things people love, but let's remember this is a video game, people are dying out there, save your high strung emotions for something that matters and let's all thank this amazing company for even making a game this cool and trying their hardest to do so.

    Yes because We can totally do something about the bad stuff going on in the world... seriously, that's what you're resorting to? The "There's worse things going on in the world than this" argument? Yeah, there is, there ALWAYS is. Us buying or not buying this DLC isn't going to do anything about that and neither is us getting or not getting mad about the price of it. That's like trying to say not to eat crab for dinner because the alaskan snow crab is being over fished and going extinct, and even THAT analogy has more linkage than the comparison you're trying to make between people being upset at over-priced content and world problems.

    It's not a luxury item, it's an entertainment item. Those are greatly different things. Remember that.
    Actually video games are luxury items especially pc master race is even more luxurious than console gaming.
    Which is also why We have to pay 21% tax on video games and not the standard 7%.

    Just a PS. Luxury items can also be entertainment items. An xbox is a luxury item that provides entertainment.
  • DwarfMasterRaceDwarfMasterRace Posts: 1,960Registered Users
    edited July 2016
    I agree, I think people are being unfair and don't understand what things are like from the creator's perspective. Consider the dilemma: you want to make a good game, but you need people do make it. They need a salary to eat and pay bills and rent and stuff. So, there is a minimum cost of production - and that's assuming you don't need a profit to invest into other projects, and just wanna make a good game that breaks even.

    On top of the minimum cost for development, you also have time to consider. More time spent on each part of the project delays the rest of the project, and that screws up the wider development schedule for your company. You need people working on other things, and you can only hire so many people when the current item isn't even on sale yet.

    But the biggest problem is this - consumer barriers. Time is one barrier (people get fed up waiting), but so is the price. A very high price will put people off. Which will result in lower revenue, even though the price is high. Which means the extra content is just not worth the effort from a fiscal point of view (very important in business).

    Now, I would have preferred more units over a mini campaign. But that's me. I do hope we see unit packs later on to complete the rosters, assuming it is financially viable.

    Cut CA some slack, they can only do so much with the budget and schedule they have. They are developers, not miracle workers. What they are doing is far more than any other developer has done for WH! :)
  • PerfectVictoryPerfectVictory Posts: 121Registered Users
    Remember folks...the ten year window. We have at least what....four to five years left? It's just two months post release.
  • Sky_SweeperrSky_Sweeperr Senior Member OklahomaPosts: 1,701Registered Users

    I agree, I think people are being unfair and don't understand what things are like from the creator's perspective. Consider the dilemma: you want to make a good game, but you need people do make it. They need a salary to eat and pay bills and rent and stuff. So, there is a minimum cost of production - and that's assuming you don't need a profit to invest into other projects, and just wanna make a good game that breaks even.

    On top of the minimum cost for development, you also have time to consider. More time spent on each part of the project delays the rest of the project, and that screws up the wider development schedule for your company. You need people working on other things, and you can only hire so many people when the current item isn't even on sale yet.

    But the biggest problem is this - consumer barriers. Time is one barrier (people get fed up waiting), but so is the price. A very high price will put people off. Which will result in lower revenue, even though the price is high. Which means the extra content is just not worth the effort from a fiscal point of view (very important in business).

    Now, I would have preferred more units over a mini campaign. But that's me. I do hope we see unit packs later on to complete the rosters, assuming it is financially viable.

    Cut CA some slack, they can only do so much with the budget and schedule they have. They are developers, not miracle workers. What they are doing is far more than any other developer has done for WH! :)

    It's not are job to think about what it costs them. The consumer's job is to see what something costs, buy it or not or say they don't like the price, and MAYBE do research on what is included in the product. Not to go digging for what it costs the company to make and what all the money went into. The consumer doesn't care about that. They care about "What do I get to do for what I paid for?" And in the case of this DLC, you get 1 race, with an incomplete roster and a mini-campaign where you can only play as one race. The new race just has re-hashed mechanics taken from the other races (orc fightiness meter, horde mod from chaos, forest-version of the dwarf underway, etc), and thats all you get for 20$.
    A brave man marches into danger and ignores his fear. A courageous man marches into danger while embracing his fear.

    OS: Windows 7 Premium 64 bit
    CPU: Intel i7 4970k 4.0 Ghz
    GPU: AMD r9 290x 4GB
    RAM: 16GB DDR3

    Veteran of the Total War franchise since Shogun: Total war. (I was 10)
  • NG12345NG12345 Member Posts: 150Registered Users
    It's easy to hate and hard to love. Most people like to jump on the bandwagon, no matter if it's a hype train or a hate train, most people want to aboard.
    Sadly, CA is one of those unfortunate companies that struck by the hate train :'(
  • SaphironSaphiron Junior Member Posts: 827Registered Users

    It's easy to hate and hard to love. Most people like to jump on the bandwagon, no matter if it's a hype train or a hate train, most people want to aboard.
    Sadly, CA is one of those unfortunate companies that struck by the hate train :'(

    I don't think that's fair, I mean I DO think the internet is a cesspool of whining hate-filled morons, but here the problem isn't just unfair complaining.

    I figured the dlc would be more expensive, maybe 12-15 dollars, and I like warhammer so I was actually pretty okay with that because I want to support the game... but it's $21 here. That makes it the most expensive DLC I would buy this year, when I saw it my immediate reaction was "holy crap that's high".

    Add in the fact a good chunk of the roster is reused chaos units, and it feels like an unfinished faction for a bonkers pricepoint.

    CA charges alot for dlc, we all know this, but 33% of the main game for a single race? I want to support them but if we don't speak out, the next one will be $24 or $30. Can't do it.
  • ozgodozgod Posts: 3Registered Users
    Rich55 said:

    ozgod said:

    It's like this in every gaming forum these days. Doesn't matter which game. Endless whinging. Check out the Overwatch forums, or Battleborn, World of Warcraft, SC2, LoL, DOTA, CS:GO...full of whingers raging about everything. It's much easier to do with the anonymity of the internet obviously.

    They aren't representative of the gaming community though. People who are loving the game tend to be playing it, not posting on forums (unless they are part of the few that like to provide constructive criticism). Forums tend to magnify displeasure.

    Has nothing to do with the anonymity of the internet. Everything to do with an easily accessible forum where people can voice their opinions to those other then their friends.
    The manner in which people complain on online forums has a lot to do with the anonymity of the internet.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 17,375Registered Users
    Saphiron said:

    It's easy to hate and hard to love. Most people like to jump on the bandwagon, no matter if it's a hype train or a hate train, most people want to aboard.
    Sadly, CA is one of those unfortunate companies that struck by the hate train :'(

    CA charges alot for dlc, we all know this, but 33% of the main game for a single race? I want to support them but if we don't speak out, the next one will be $24 or $30. Can't do it.
    Could be right. BeastMen are one of the easier factions to do, why wouldn't they charge more for a harder faction?
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • Rich55Rich55 Posts: 856Registered Users
    ozgod said:

    Rich55 said:

    ozgod said:

    It's like this in every gaming forum these days. Doesn't matter which game. Endless whinging. Check out the Overwatch forums, or Battleborn, World of Warcraft, SC2, LoL, DOTA, CS:GO...full of whingers raging about everything. It's much easier to do with the anonymity of the internet obviously.

    They aren't representative of the gaming community though. People who are loving the game tend to be playing it, not posting on forums (unless they are part of the few that like to provide constructive criticism). Forums tend to magnify displeasure.

    Has nothing to do with the anonymity of the internet. Everything to do with an easily accessible forum where people can voice their opinions to those other then their friends.
    The manner in which people complain on online forums has a lot to do with the anonymity of the internet.
    No, there are whingers raging in all forms of life. Just that with the internet you are exposed to a far larger number of them from a greater area becoming condensed in one area that they feel aggrieved about..
  • GRAY_HATGRAY_HAT Senior Member UKPosts: 5,394Registered Users

    Saphiron said:

    It's easy to hate and hard to love. Most people like to jump on the bandwagon, no matter if it's a hype train or a hate train, most people want to aboard.
    Sadly, CA is one of those unfortunate companies that struck by the hate train :'(

    CA charges alot for dlc, we all know this, but 33% of the main game for a single race? I want to support them but if we don't speak out, the next one will be $24 or $30. Can't do it.
    Could be right. BeastMen are one of the easier factions to do, why wouldn't they charge more for a harder faction?
    Beastmen are easy? I'd have though beastmen are one of the hardest as they need more models and the animations have to be made up from scratch you can't video capture how goat people move.
    Team Wood Elves

    boyfights loves wood elves.

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  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 19,023Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    edited July 2016
    Off topic posts and those with comments or content about other members have been deleted.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
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  • MasqueradeMasquerade Posts: 292Registered Users
    dge1 said:

    Off topic posts and those with comments or content about other members have been deleted.

    Tyrant
  • GoreGaloreGoreGalore Posts: 66Registered Users

    Remember folks...the ten year window. We have at least what....four to five years left? It's just two months post release.

    This is cool to think about. Hope the game evolves via ca. And it could end up like skyrim with modders creating all new units, textures etc...

  • Gr_Ad_KinzGr_Ad_Kinz Senior Member Posts: 1,052Registered Users
    I agree. While I wish some different units were included in the Beastmen DLC, I am happy that they are releasing this DLC so soon. The more, and quicker, they get DLC out the Door the happier I will be.
    Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war.
    Donald Trump

  • Gr_Ad_KinzGr_Ad_Kinz Senior Member Posts: 1,052Registered Users

    Remember folks...the ten year window. We have at least what....four to five years left? It's just two months post release.

    If I remember correctly CA stated in an Interview that they would be done with Warhammer in 2-3 years. The Ten year window could be when they actually started planning and working with Gameshop on this. However far back that goes.
    Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war.
    Donald Trump

  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,242Registered Users
    Kirkilius said:

    Remember folks...the ten year window. We have at least what....four to five years left? It's just two months post release.

    If I remember correctly CA stated in an Interview that they would be done with Warhammer in 2-3 years. The Ten year window could be when they actually started planning and working with Gameshop on this. However far back that goes.
    They won't be done with Warhammer in 2-3 years. The 10 year thing started in 2012 iirc.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • Gr_Ad_KinzGr_Ad_Kinz Senior Member Posts: 1,052Registered Users

    Kirkilius said:

    Remember folks...the ten year window. We have at least what....four to five years left? It's just two months post release.

    If I remember correctly CA stated in an Interview that they would be done with Warhammer in 2-3 years. The Ten year window could be when they actually started planning and working with Gameshop on this. However far back that goes.
    They won't be done with Warhammer in 2-3 years. The 10 year thing started in 2012 iirc.
    I can almost guarantee you that both Warhammer Expansions will be done in around 3 years max. They may continue with DLC after that, but the ground work will be completed.

    They stated that they are treating these games Like Attila, which was built upon Rome 2. Attila came out 18 months after Rome 2. Times that by two is 36 months = 3 years. Warhammer team is arguably bigger at this time with more man power. I expect we will have both expansions out before 3 years from now.
    Sometimes by losing a battle you find a new way to win the war.
    Donald Trump

  • throumbasthroumbas Junior Member Posts: 40Registered Users

    It's easy to hate and hard to love. Most people like to jump on the bandwagon, no matter if it's a hype train or a hate train, most people want to aboard.
    Sadly, CA is one of those unfortunate companies that struck by the hate train :'(

    Poor CA and their multi-million dollar profits. :'(
  • GrimmBroGrimmBro Junior Member UK.Posts: 89Registered Users

    Lord Name: GraeChan

    All views and opinions expressed in these forums by me are my own and I accept full responsibility for them.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,242Registered Users
    throumbas said:

    It's easy to hate and hard to love. Most people like to jump on the bandwagon, no matter if it's a hype train or a hate train, most people want to aboard.
    Sadly, CA is one of those unfortunate companies that struck by the hate train :'(

    Poor CA and their multi-million dollar profits. :'(
    How are they going to feed themselves? :'(
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • SutuulSutuul Posts: 19Registered Users
    edited July 2016
    While I did express some concern at the Beastman roster, I admit I completely forgot that CA would be doing large expansion packs for the game further down the road. These expansion packs could very easily include new units for existing factions, especially ones that are sold seperate from the expansions like the Beastmen. We could see Ghorgons or Jabberslythes make their way into the game in an expansion pack, Harpies could make their way into the Beastman roster when Dark Elves join the faction roster, and so on.

    I don't know, I think when most people see the $20 price tag for the Beastman faction they were taken aback. Sure, Total War fans are used to big expansion packs for a relatively low price in the past (like Medieval 2) but times have changed and games are now significantly more expensive/time consuming to make. I bought Call of the Beastmen. The mini-campaign looks neat and, taking into account the (current and future) Free-LC that CA are putting out, in my opinion the price is justified. I know some will disagree with me and have good reasons for doing so, just my two cents.
  • TigTig Senior Member Posts: 829Registered Users

    watch this video from Indypride if you want to hear a civil and well thought out response to the Beastmen DLC.

    He makes some good points, but the one thing he said that irks me is his comparison of the jabberslythe to giants and dragons. Those two can be used over again for multiple creatures, for multiple factions. A jabberslythe would be utterly unique and singular. No comparison. A better comparison would be harpies and other flying units. I don't get why harpies aren't in.

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  • Zatrakus95Zatrakus95 Posts: 708Registered Users

    watch this video from Indypride if you want to hear a civil and well thought out response to the Beastmen DLC.

    He makes some good points, but the one thing he said that irks me is his comparison of the jabberslythe to giants and dragons. Those two can be used over again for multiple creatures, for multiple factions. A jabberslythe would be utterly unique and singular. No comparison. A better comparison would be harpies and other flying units. I don't get why harpies aren't in.

    While I don't know why harpies were excluded (I want to believe that it was an important reason) I will that of all missing units they are the most probable one to appear either in update to this game or alongisde Dark Elves with an expansion. Part of why I think so is that they're less complicated to make than jabberslythe and they cover an important tactical role which is currently not occupied by any other unit (unlike another chariot or big monster).
  • Grave_DiggerGrave_Digger Posts: 561Registered Users
    GrimmBro said:


    I don't understand. So you don't go to the doctor unless you have cancer, because there are people in the world who have AIDS?

    What is that even supposed to say?
  • SaphironSaphiron Junior Member Posts: 827Registered Users
    Sutuul said:

    While I did express some concern at the Beastman roster, I admit I completely forgot that CA would be doing large expansion packs for the game further down the road. These expansion packs could very easily include new units for existing factions, especially ones that are sold seperate from the expansions like the Beastmen. We could see Ghorgons or Jabberslythes make their way into the game in an expansion pack, Harpies could make their way into the Beastman roster when Dark Elves join the faction roster, and so on.

    I don't know, I think when most people see the $20 price tag for the Beastman faction they were taken aback. Sure, Total War fans are used to big expansion packs for a relatively low price in the past (like Medieval 2) but times have changed and games are now significantly more expensive/time consuming to make. I bought Call of the Beastmen. The mini-campaign looks neat and, taking into account the (current and future) Free-LC that CA are putting out, in my opinion the price is justified. I know some will disagree with me and have good reasons for doing so, just my two cents.

    If CA plans to add more units to the beastmen and other dlc packs, i feel that's info they should share if they're going to charge $21.00 per pack.

    I'm not going to put down that kind of cash for an unfinished roster and the off chance they'll one day improve it. Typically dlc when released is released, it might get patched, but it doesn't get added to.
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