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CA can't really think Dwarfs are Ok against Range spam?

InfletoInfleto MemberRegistered Users Posts: 305
Dwarfs in MP can't don't anything about mass spam of ranged and arty

Surely they see that. yet 3 patches in, not much is being done
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Comments

  • TheRainbowDwarfTheRainbowDwarf Registered Users Posts: 441
    Guess you never played against the last wood elf book in TT as the dwarves. That sucked unless you got lucky with your gyros.
  • InfletoInfleto Member Registered Users Posts: 305
    but in TT you knew you where going to get shot up vs wood elf. in TW MP it is a crap shoot
  • RiggsenRiggsen Member Registered Users Posts: 2,607
    If Dwarf arty had the longest range it'd fix that problem, quarrellers will easily beat any other missile unit.
    "CA WHY U NU UNPOOP GAME" (Dank TW meme of 2011)
  • R0ck_0nR0ck_0n Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 130
    edited September 2016
    I said it before and i will say it again. The most immobile faction should have the longest and most effective reach. it's common sense. Then people wont be so butthurt about dwarfs having trouble protecting their range units since they SHOULD already be wielding great results from range.

    People say that's how it is on TT but please... CA has already selectively followed and not followed certain things belonging to the TT version ( e.g. spirit leech which is supposed to deal more damage according to leadership). So why can't they just do that for dwarfs and chaos especially.

    I am not even an avid dwarf player and even for my greenskins i use 3 rock lobbers to smash my dwarf opponents. Even a single helstorm rocket battery can potentially force a dwarf player to move up and attack.
  • KzickasKzickas Registered Users Posts: 23
    Riggsen said:

    If Dwarf arty had the longest range it'd fix that problem, quarrellers will easily beat any other missile unit.

    Quarrelers easily beat other missile units, but other factions can bring a *lot* of ranged units knowing that dwarfs won't have cavalry to punish them for it, while the dwarfs can't bring a similar number of quarrelers for fear of being rushed down by an army that doesn't bring a lot ranged units.
  • busa27busa27 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,744
    While I do agree with opinion, how do you think CA could fix this?. The only way I find is add caps to artillery and missile units but a lot of people hate this system, so not sure if it would be fixed some day.
  • Karadar_UKKaradar_UK Registered Users Posts: 191
    Coolios said:

    People say that's how it is on TT but please... CA has already selectively followed and not followed certain things belonging to the TT version ( e.g. spirit leech which is supposed to deal more damage according to leadership). So why can't they just do that for dwarfs and chaos especially.

    Another thing is Greatswords, they are far better in TWW than they are on TT, empire don't need an elite cost effective melee unit, they are the best in nearly every other area.
  • KzickasKzickas Registered Users Posts: 23
    I've said before that I think that quarrelers and thunderers should have slightly higher melee defence so that the dwarf player doesn't need to protect them quite as much and can take some more.
  • erza321erza321 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,350
    Riggsen said:

    If Dwarf arty had the longest range it'd fix that problem, quarrellers will easily beat any other missile unit.

    Dwarfs don't need longer range artillery, they need equal range artillery to the Empires with the option to buff their artillery units with Runes.

    For example the Master Rune of Disguise in TTW would give the Dwarfs artillery concealment and the Mater Rune of Immolation which should give an artillery unit fire damage.

    Another of the Dwarfs issues is their "specialist" units are overpriced, under perform and can be hard countered with almost no effort. For example Dwarf Slayer aren't very good at dealing with armoured large unit such as heavy cavalry and they're the only anti large infantry the Dwarfs have.
  • Wing ZeroWing Zero Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 827
    I dont care if its not true to the TT, this is a CA game not a games workshop game.

    Give Longer range artillery to dwarfs, its madness that they dont have it.
    ''The difficulty of tactical maneuvering consists in turning the devious into the direct, and misfortune into gain.
    -Sun Tzu

    "Tolerance, Diversity, Strength"
    - Seleucid

    Team Chaos Dwarf
  • busa27busa27 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,744
    CA is only faithful to TT when they have to represent Chaos/Dwarfs weakness.
  • R0ck_0nR0ck_0n Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 130
    Yea i don get it.. it's like CA loves the empire and VC but hates the rest.
    busa27 said:

    While I do agree with opinion, how do you think CA could fix this?. The only way I find is add caps to artillery and missile units but a lot of people hate this system, so not sure if it would be fixed some day.

    Well, like Vanguard deployment nerf, after some thought, I'm guessing it indirectly benefited Dwarf defense lines at deployment stage.

    For dwarf faction itself, I would love to see more further reaching AND accurate arty and a lower cost for master engineer and his ballistic calibration. Perhaps even introduce runes to buff dwarf range units accuracy and reload timings.
    Look at the dwarf army roster and you will know they were meant to let their tech and firearms and irondrakes do the damage while their main infantry line does minimum but tanks charges and damage..

    Also, There is no way players can always keep their range in a safe place, this is just impossible( with the variety of cav and flying units). Too bad, thats just how it is. Which is why I'm strongly for dwarfs having some serious arty and range effectiveness.

  • busa27busa27 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,744
    edited September 2016
    First 2 months after game release I only played Dwarfs but I had to stop because it was pretty frustrating. Dwarfs have some issues that I see pretty hard to fix and others that look pretty easy to fix but for some reason, CA don't want/can't to do it.

    Range spam is probably the hard issue to fix. Even with some Caps Dwarfs will continue being too predictable. 6 Handgunners + 3 cannons + Net of amyntook are more than enough to Empire win 100% for sure vs Dwarfs. Maybe if Dwarfs player knows Empire build before the match would be able to do something but it's the main issue.... While some factions are simply unpredictable (Like Empire), Dwarfs have pretty few options. If you (As Dwarfs player) try to play a build to counter ranged builds, you would be pretty exposed vs balanced builds and this is the reason because Dwarfs never will be viable IMO (I don't like the idea about blind pick option).

    For the other hand, there are some minor issues pretty easy to fix but CA seems like don't want to change the current infantry balance. Same as Chaos, Dwarfs haven't cost/effective infantry units to deal vs Greatswords and Grave Guards (normal version), they are simply too good for their price. Longbeards GW lose vs Grave Guards and cost the same.... Even when Longbeards GW do AP damage. I am not even going to talk about Greatswords because they are simply the most broken infantry unit in the game.

    Flaying units issue maybe would be solved if, as you said, artillery would have more accuracy and I would love if CA would add more damage vs Large.

    The last issue, lack of buff/debuff spells maybe could be fixed with runes. Runesmiths are great but they can't compete vs other buff/debuff spells.

    If all other issues would be fixed, I don't even consider the lack of cavalry units a problem.
    Post edited by busa27 on
  • InfletoInfleto Member Registered Users Posts: 305
    edited September 2016
    Well, I do know one thing they could change... Range spam is countered by cav right? Dwarfs have gyro's as their only mobility tool. It seems like a counter yet in practice gunners and other ranged units stagger gyro's when hit. It is so bad that it interrupts them from shooting back. It also makes it hard to do a bombing run.

    So, make it so when a gyro is shot at It will not stagger.

    Gyro's moving while they shoot as HoC suggested would help as well. Or at the very lest make them accelerate and decelerate instantly so they are more micro-able and responsive

    Also in the TT terrain items blocked line of site, thus letting gryo's duck away form ranged units
  • EimhosanEimhosan Registered Users Posts: 333
    Coolios said:

    I said it before and i will say it again. The most immobile faction should have the longest and most effective reach. it's common sense. Then people wont be so butthurt about dwarfs having trouble protecting their range units since they SHOULD already be wielding great results from range.

    People say that's how it is on TT but please... CA has already selectively followed and not followed certain things belonging to the TT version ( e.g. spirit leech which is supposed to deal more damage according to leadership). So why can't they just do that for dwarfs and chaos especially.

    I am not even an avid dwarf player and even for my greenskins i use 3 rock lobbers to smash my dwarf opponents. Even a single helstorm rocket battery can potentially force a dwarf player to move up and attack.

    Coolios said:

    Yea i don get it.. it's like CA loves the empire and VC but hates the rest.

    busa27 said:

    While I do agree with opinion, how do you think CA could fix this?. The only way I find is add caps to artillery and missile units but a lot of people hate this system, so not sure if it would be fixed some day.

    Well, like Vanguard deployment nerf, after some thought, I'm guessing it indirectly benefited Dwarf defense lines at deployment stage.

    For dwarf faction itself, I would love to see more further reaching AND accurate arty and a lower cost for master engineer and his ballistic calibration. Perhaps even introduce runes to buff dwarf range units accuracy and reload timings.
    Look at the dwarf army roster and you will know they were meant to let their tech and firearms and irondrakes do the damage while their main infantry line does minimum but tanks charges and damage..

    Also, There is no way players can always keep their range in a safe place, this is just impossible( with the variety of cav and flying units). Too bad, thats just how it is. Which is why I'm strongly for dwarfs having some serious arty and range effectiveness.

    It's like your emitting gold and rainbows from your mouth.

    TESTIFY BROTHA! TESTIFY!!!!
    Infleto said:

    Well, I do know one thing they could change... Range spam is countered by cav right? Dwarfs have gyro's as their only mobility tool. It seems like a counter yet in practice gunners and other ranged units stagger gyro's when hit. It is so bad that it interrupts them from shooting back. It also makes it hard to do a bombing run.

    So, make it so when a gyro is shot at It will not stagger.

    Gyro's moving while they shoot as HoC suggested would help as well. Or at the very lest make them accelerate and decelerate instantly so they are more micro-able and responsive

    Also in the TT terrain items blocked line of site, thus letting gryo's duck away form ranged units

    Hmmmmmmm That might work, buuuuuuuuuuttttttt (dat butt) they would still take damage regardless.........not to mention being in the air makes them a target to any OTHER ranged units.
    For every poster that refers to fantasy factions as "order", "destruction", "death" or any other AoS term, I smash a stormcast model with a sledgehammer. (Why yes I do refer to it as my "Heldenhammer"...) This is fantasy. It says a lot about the posters here that they are so easily willing to interchange terms like that. Especially for a setting that's so widely hated by the crowd this game is supposed to cater to (fantasy players) Very reddit like.

    Just call them good factions or evil factions or better yet the faction's actual name please.
  • salsichasalsicha Registered Users Posts: 3,572
    Please don't improve Gyros. Dwarfs should definitely have best artillery, which is probably coming in a DLC at some point.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 3,900
    edited September 2016
    Dwarfs have to wait on DLC for a range increase.....that flame cannon still costs 1250 by the way lol.

    Also gyros do need a buff. Their damage output is straight garbage right now.
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