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Why is Thorgrim so weak?

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  • erza321erza321 Junior Member Posts: 986Registered Users
    Deavex said:

    i really like him i just wish he did ap dmg bc he is mounted

    I think CA made a mistake by not giving him AP damage, because the Axe of Grimnir on TT wounds anything automatily on a 2 plus regardless of toughness (he could be fighting a Dragon with toughness 8 and wouldn't care) and I think the only thing that bypasses this rule is a something im magic armour (then it's a 3 plus).

    Also Thorgrim being immune to being knock down by charges isn't really a good thing, this only means if a player spam out melee heroes on pegasus mounts and charges all of them into Thorgrim he'll most likely die in seconds.
  • TheRainbowDwarfTheRainbowDwarf Posts: 441Registered Users
    erza321 said:

    Also Thorgrim being immune to being knock down by charges isn't really a good thing, this only means if a player spam out melee heroes on pegasus mounts and charges all of them into Thorgrim he'll most likely die in seconds.

    The only defense I've seen against the bro force is to embed the lord in a unit, and hope to get other troops in the way to absorb some damage. Doesn't always work, but it for sure won't work if the lord gets punted out of the unit.

    The High King also doesn't seem to trigger after his death, which is pretty silly. It only seems to work if he's wavering, which means he's about to die anyway. So you get a couple seconds of a weak buff, yay.
  • erza321erza321 Junior Member Posts: 986Registered Users
    On TT doesn't Thorgrim have teo specail rules, there's the High King special rule that's active while he's alive and another rule that kicks in after he dies that give the entire army the frenzy special rule.

    Also rather then opening a new post so I going to say it here, the High King bonus is currently broken (seeing as it only activates when Thorgrim is wavering).
  • MadDemiurgMadDemiurg Posts: 2,396Registered Users
    I think High King should not work at high leadership, which is supported by its description, it should however stay forever if Thorgrim gets killed (currently only the case if he's sniped when wavering and before becoming broken).

    This would make it an interesting anti snipe mechanic - you can invest resources into killing him, but if you do all dwarves get a buff (including psychology immunity, which more or less offsets the leadership penalty for his death), so better keep him alive till the end and finish him last.

    Other than that he's a bit overpriced I think and doesn't have a lot of unique abilities, but that's an issue with many LLs. He's a pretty good support lord with book of grudges, even if bit too pricy for my liking. One of the more difficult lords to snipe as well due to his huge health pool, until OP health potions became a thing.

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  • RiggsenRiggsen Member Posts: 2,598Registered Users
    Not that Louen needs buffs but I think Beloved Son of Bretonnia is similarly broken and only works for a couple of seconds if Louen wavers
    "CA WHY U NU UNPOOP GAME" (Dank TW meme of 2011)
  • erza321erza321 Junior Member Posts: 986Registered Users
    edited October 2016
    After watching an overiew of Thorgrim's equipment and history by Loremaster Sotek, I can now see how underpowered Thorgrim actually is in Total War Warhammer compared to the version of him in the lore.

    It's also worth noting Thorgrim will dismount the Throne of Power to duel the leaders of enemy armies, he did this to Gorfang Rotgut (who he beheaded) and Queek (who he throttled).

    https://youtu.be/2r0_evhiEGM?t=2814
  • EimhosanEimhosan Posts: 330Registered Users
    Wing Zero said:

    Sir Lard **** cant even get off his chair. Thats why he's weak.

    They say that the high king is strictly forbidden to ever get up from the thrown of power. Implying that there is a hole where Thorgrim is sitting so he can "drop one" when he needs to

    Thorgrim is just taking a really big dump and needs some laxatives
    For every poster that refers to fantasy factions as "order", "destruction", "death" or any other AoS term, I smash a stormcast model with a sledgehammer. (Why yes I do refer to it as my "Heldenhammer"...) This is fantasy. It says a lot about the posters here that they are so easily willing to interchange terms like that. Especially for a setting that's so widely hated by the crowd this game is supposed to cater to (fantasy players) Very reddit like.

    Just call them good factions or evil factions or better yet the faction's actual name please.
  • erza321erza321 Junior Member Posts: 986Registered Users

    Wing Zero said:

    Sir Lard **** cant even get off his chair. Thats why he's weak.

    They say that the high king is strictly forbidden to ever get up from the thrown of power. Implying that there is a hole where Thorgrim is sitting so he can "drop one" when he needs to

    Thorgrim is just taking a really big dump and needs some laxatives
    No it's not that he can't get off the Throne of Power, it's just that he is honour bound to sit on only the Throne of Power.

    If he couldn't get off the Throne of Power he wouldn't have killed Gorfang Rotgut or Queek the Headtaker in single combat.
  • salsichasalsicha Posts: 3,572Registered Users
    He is the most important character in the Dwarf lineup, because he is the only one that does magic damage.
  • Just1moreJust1more Posts: 103Registered Users
    Thorgrim is still very much overpriced. (they reduced him by 50 last patch if i remember correctly xd) he is not bad, just overpriced. Maybe they could make his throne a ''mount''? He already counts as large.
  • erza321erza321 Junior Member Posts: 986Registered Users
    The Throne of Power also has a knockback effect of elderich energy from the Rune of Azamar embedded in the Throne, which knock back almost every oncoming attack.

    The Axe of Grimnir has three very powerful Runes embedded into it, a unique version of the Master Rune of Skalf Blackhammer (the same Rune that is in Ghal Maraz), Master Rune of Swiftness and the Master Rune of Giant Slaying.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Posts: 3,043Registered Users
    edited October 2016
    Thorgrim is the support lord. Ungrim is the better individual fighter. if you use thorgrim with the book of grudges plus a runesmith you get +16 melee attack to your units. Hes not meant to be better than ungrim is at melee combat.

    Similar to how volkmar isn't as good as karl franz is at being a killer. But he'll buff your units a whole lot better than karl will.
  • erza321erza321 Junior Member Posts: 986Registered Users

    Thorgrim is the support lord. Ungrim is the better individual fighter. if you use thorgrim with the book of grudges plus a runesmith you get +16 melee attack to your units. Hes not meant to be better than ungrim is at melee combat.

    Similar to how volkmar isn't as good as karl franz is at being a killer. But he'll buff your units a whole lot better than karl will.

    This kind of goes against Thorgrim's lore, where he personally seeks out the enemy armies commanders and duels them in single combat while dismounted from the Throne (as I mentioned before he killed Gorfang Rotgut and Queek Headtaker in this manner).

    Also bringing up Valkmar is a bad example as a comparison, because Thorgrim doesn't have any where near as many abilities as Volkmar.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Posts: 3,043Registered Users
    erza321 said:

    Thorgrim is the support lord. Ungrim is the better individual fighter. if you use thorgrim with the book of grudges plus a runesmith you get +16 melee attack to your units. Hes not meant to be better than ungrim is at melee combat.

    Similar to how volkmar isn't as good as karl franz is at being a killer. But he'll buff your units a whole lot better than karl will.

    This kind of goes against Thorgrim's lore, where he personally seeks out the enemy armies commanders and duels them in single combat while dismounted from the Throne (as I mentioned before he killed Gorfang Rotgut and Queek Headtaker in this manner).

    Also bringing up Valkmar is a bad example as a comparison, because Thorgrim doesn't have any where near as many abilities as Volkmar.
    Volkmar is the better support lord. Thorgrim by design in this game regardless of the lore is more of a support lord than he is a fighter. Although he feels incomplete as one, it would be nice if his throne was treated as a mount skill similar to how volkmar's chariot is.
  • erza321erza321 Junior Member Posts: 986Registered Users
    Thorgrim would have been a better support Lord if the Rune of Azamar (not sure on the correct spelling, but it's the main Rune in the Throne of Power and is the most powerful Rune the Dwarfs have) had a ability that had an aoe knockback effect that can cause mass disruption and negate the charge bonus of charging enemies.
  • Just1moreJust1more Posts: 103Registered Users

    Thorgrim is the support lord. Ungrim is the better individual fighter. if you use thorgrim with the book of grudges plus a runesmith you get +16 melee attack to your units. Hes not meant to be better than ungrim is at melee combat.

    Similar to how volkmar isn't as good as karl franz is at being a killer. But he'll buff your units a whole lot better than karl will.

    When will this meme die? Have you ever compared his book of grudges to the abilities of actual support Lords? it's overcpriced AND lackluster, the support it gives isnt even that big. Stop using this argument, it's simply not true
  • erza321erza321 Junior Member Posts: 986Registered Users
    edited October 2016
    Both the Axe of Grimnir and the Axe if Dargo have the Master Rune of Giant Slaying. Which means Throgrim and Ungrim Ironfist should be able to shred large units such as Giants with ease.

    This means both the Dwarfs Legendary Lords are underpowered compared to what they should be able to do (though the Dwarfs LL might get stronger when CA actually add Runic Magic and proper balance for Rune, because the Runes are under powered).

    edit: Another reason Thorgrim shouldn't be a support Lord is because of the simple fact he's not a Rune Lord who should the Dwarfs support Lords (along with the Master Engineer who is infact a Lord if i'm not mistaken).
  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Posts: 2,829Registered Users
    I m drunk(Sorry but I had to share)))))))
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Posts: 3,043Registered Users
    edited October 2016
    Just1more said:

    Thorgrim is the support lord. Ungrim is the better individual fighter. if you use thorgrim with the book of grudges plus a runesmith you get +16 melee attack to your units. Hes not meant to be better than ungrim is at melee combat.

    Similar to how volkmar isn't as good as karl franz is at being a killer. But he'll buff your units a whole lot better than karl will.

    When will this meme die? Have you ever compared his book of grudges to the abilities of actual support Lords? it's overcpriced AND lackluster, the support it gives isnt even that big. Stop using this argument, it's simply not true
    I didn't say he was great support wise but he leans that way more than ungrim does. He should have been focused toward support if that is what CA intended.
  • erza321erza321 Junior Member Posts: 986Registered Users

    Just1more said:

    Thorgrim is the support lord. Ungrim is the better individual fighter. if you use thorgrim with the book of grudges plus a runesmith you get +16 melee attack to your units. Hes not meant to be better than ungrim is at melee combat.

    Similar to how volkmar isn't as good as karl franz is at being a killer. But he'll buff your units a whole lot better than karl will.

    When will this meme die? Have you ever compared his book of grudges to the abilities of actual support Lords? it's overcpriced AND lackluster, the support it gives isnt even that big. Stop using this argument, it's simply not true
    I didn't say he was great support wise but he leans that way more than ungrim does. He should have been focused toward support if that is what CA intended.
    CA probably intended for Thorgrim to be the support Lord, because almost every faction (except Chaos) has been balanced this way with one combat Lord and one support Lord.
    • Grimgor Irohide and Azhag the Slaugherer
    • Karl Franz and Balthasar Gelt
    • Mannfred Von Carstain and Heinrich Kemmler
    • Malagor the Dark Omen and Khazrik One Eye
    Though the issue with this is CA didn't give Thorgrim enough abailities for him to fill a support, if you compare him to the other non wizard support Lords or Heroes of the Empire (though compared to the Volkmar the Grim, the Arch Lector and Warrior Priest of Sigmar all Dwarf support character look under powered).
  • Lord_NathanaelLord_Nathanael Posts: 1,496Registered Users
    i get your point, but i can't stop giggling.
    Im not a grammar nazi, but could you atleast write one legendary lords name correctly, please?

    considering support heroes/units/LLs, yeah dwarfs have the weaker ones, but that ain't so terrible as their units are individually better than what most other races field. their tier one line infantry is effective against every other line infantry except the highest tiers and armor piercing specialists.
    their lords are generally also the toughest nuts to crack.

    which is why they are so good on campaign atm.
    I would rather focus on their artillery being way too weak like everyones artillery. seriously, arty must be able to kill its cost worth before the lines clash, else its pointless to take em.

    we will see what the dwarf and GS DLC will bring, until then, maybe some balance, but I wouldn't hold my breath


    feel free to point out my errors, I'd like to improve my english
  • KzickasKzickas Posts: 23Registered Users


    which is why they are so good on campaign atm.

    The fact that they have such a great tech tree probably helps a lot. Dwarf warriors are not that good before you get militia training and take them half way to longbeards in melee attack and melee defence. They also have +10% quarreler damage and 15% faster reload early in the tech tree.
  • Karadar_UKKaradar_UK Posts: 191Registered Users
    I said it in chaos thread but lords and heros need the stat boosts from the yellow campaign trees, including the ward saves and stuff from LL items they get. That Thorgrimm ability that only works if he has low leadership or dead is a joke, it should be on all the time and map-wide, that would make him a much better support lord.
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