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A suggestion on how to stop dwarfs from being stomped by cav and flying units

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  • EimhosanEimhosan Registered Users Posts: 333
    Walrus said:

    The Anvil of Doom is missing. Maybe it could be the answer to this Dwarfen problem.

    Edit: the Empire shouldnt have more range than the Dwarfs. In my opinion, dwarfen artillery should inflict more damage.

    Edit2: Slayers should get a buff (physical resistance?)

    As much as people would want it, I really don't think another ranged unit is going to save the day here.
    Nysalor said:

    Oh wait I got a better idea! how bout we just GIVE THE DWARFS A GDAMN CALVARY UNIT!

    and while your at it give the VC's some ranged units. (because any army that is missing entire components for the sake of lore is just plain stupid)

    Sorry, no. Some degree of deference to the lore is what makes this game Warhammer: Total War as opposed to Some Random Fantasy Setting: Total War, and maintaining that distinction is valuable to many of us in the community. Dwarfs don't get cavalry, VC don't get ranged, Greenskins don't get gunpowder or high-end cavalry, Empire doesn't get monsters, that's just how it is.
    Giving Dwarfs a calvary will not hurt your precious little fa/tg/uy, lore nazi, mandated game difference between factions. As I said before I'm only looking for A Calvary unit. Something just to keep up with the other factions. It doesn't need to be state of the art or re skin.

    Besides are you really going to argue that a race that makes helicopters, bombs, cannons, trains, and at one time freaking STONE GOLEMS.......Has never had the thought of "Hey see this pointy stick I found? We should make a metal version for it and poke people with it." Or "Hey were pretty slow, and our biggest enemies are always faster than us because they are riding wolves......why don't we ride wolves to keep up with them?" This is maybe the third/fourth smartest race in the old world (Depending on if you think Skaven are smarter than dwarfs, which is debatable.) Just because it was never in any book does not mean it's downright impossible or even unlikely. A race like the dwarfs would see their slowness as a weakness and would try to compensate for it.

    At the same time has it ever crossed a necromancers/vampires mind that "Hey I'm always throwing zombie after zombie at my enemies and I'm always coming back with less......what if I had my zombies shoot something like......a bow.....or a gun.... then I wouldn't need to raise more because they would never go into melee.....hmmm"

    Greenskins/empire are exactly what I would like to see for the dwarfs: They have every FORM of unit. Infantry, RI, Calvary, and artillery. Now the green skins don't have the latest and greatest artillery, but it's till there.

    Oh wait I got a better idea! how bout we just GIVE THE DWARFS A GDAMN CALVARY UNIT!

    and while your at it give the VC's some ranged units. (because any army that is missing entire components for the sake of lore is just plain stupid)

    I think those are terrible ideas. Asymmetrical balance is what makes this game great IMO! Streamlining should be avoided like the plague.

    All the best!
    \

    Oh wait I got a better idea! how bout we just GIVE THE DWARFS A GDAMN CALVARY UNIT!

    and while your at it give the VC's some ranged units. (because any army that is missing entire components for the sake of lore is just plain stupid)

    Ok, then we give ancient romans airplanes in rome 3, and in shogun 3 we get plasmagunners?

    Calmed down now: So you want all factions to be the same? the empire should get trolls? greenskins should get handgunners? vampires should get gyrocopters? Dwarfs get zombies? Beastmen get grail knights? Chaos get warrior priest? Grimgor should be able to get ghal Maraz? Baltazhar gelt gets Kholeks hammer? Lizardmen get chaos spawn? Empire gets stormcast eternals (that one was more to GW)

    Just get a mod if you want all factions to get all units!!!

    Translated from saurian

    That's not what I'm saying at all.
    I'm only saying that CERTAIN TYPES of units should be standard for all factions. They fall into four groups.

    Infantry By definition: Slow and steady melee units.
    Ranged infantry By definition: Infantry that has weak melee, but stronger ranged attack
    Calvary By definition: A faster than infantry unit that is used to out-maneuver or sneak past infantry, can (but does not have to) be equipped with a ranged attack.
    Artillery By definition: A ranged unit with very poor melee but makes up for it with extremely powerful and long-distance range attack

    All factions should have at least SOME FORM of these.

    Gyrocopters, steam tanks, giants, arachnoroks, etc is extra since they were never in any previous total war game. (And don't you dare bring up that stupid Persian elephant.) Now you're right, giving Gyro bombers to vampire counts and all your other examples would be silly, but Im NOT asking for dwarf zombies or any of that crap that would NEVER happen in Warhammer. I'm asking for bare minimum and something that is vital for certain strategies. There are tactics THAT WOULD BE PERFECT FOR THE SITUATION, but I can't do because WHOOPS! picked the wrong faction.

    Crazy, I'm barred from certain tactics when I'm the dwarfs or VC's, BUT when Im playing Bretonia, The Empire, or the Orks (Orks moreover because their army is dirt cheap+monster units) I can do whatever strategy I want so long as I actually have the units in my stack. Do you see from here it's better that I get the latter three even before the game even starts?

    You call that balance? You call that fair?

    Now that doesn't mean that all of the units need to be the same. The stats can vary greatly between different factions units VC's can have different stats then the empire and so on. They also don't have to be reskins either. they can be totally unique in their own way. For example:

    Skull launcher
    faction: VC
    type: Artillary (Catapult that throws severed heads in a "Clusterbomb" fashion) High range, low melee. Effective against infantry, morale debuff if enemy hit is human.
    At first the skull launcher was used to terrify any Sylvanian rebels that would dare challenge the Von Carsteins, It then became useful for scaring away inhabitants of new territory.

    See that's all you have to do. take a basic design for a Calvary unit and make it "dwarfy" -Smaller, maybe have them ride on rams or goats instead of horses.( or maybe ponies? but they have a bad reputation here on the internet...) Give them dwarf- like halbreds (proportional to the dwarfs themselves) and put a dwarf warrior on and boom: dwarf calvery. It really isn't that hard and there is a mod for it already. "Then why whine here when you can use the mod?" Because the mod is pretty much a thane on a Griffin/wolf. It doesn't feature a unique model and everybody who looks at it knows it's a mod. It's like fake boobs- Yeah they get the job done, but EVERYBODY can see that they're not real. (Not to mention the mod is buggy as hell)

    Will this solve everything? No, (Slayers need a HUGE buff, and the flame cannon? I'm on the verge of saying "Forget reworking it Just get rid of it." but both are for another day.) but It takes care of the constant sneaky little black knights always managing to get to your quarrelers and grudgethrowers since your longbeards are too slow. (Those of you who play Dwarf, you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about)

    Every faction deserves the bare minimum of an army. It does not have to be the best one out there, nor does it have to have EXACT MATCHING STAT'S AND APPEARANCES, but it does have to be THERE.

    THAT is what I WANT, and NO it is not a terrible idea or "streamlining" . It is reasonable and a big part of what the dwarfs need.

    KHAZUKAN-KHAZAKIT-HA BITCH!

    All the best tho :) (I added this part here because it doesn't matter how offensive you are so long as you make the closing nice and polite lol.)
    But they don't have cav in Lore, and they do have a unit that is a faster infantry unit that is used to out-maneuver or sneak past infantry: THE SLAYERS. (but i agree slayers need a buff)


    EDIT: Dwarfs don't have halberds or spears either
    Slayers are not a Calvary unit and you know it. In this game they act more as a armor-less spear infantry......that sucks at their job.

    Well at least they get to fulfill their oaths........
    Formosa said:

    just for clarity here.

    1st: Dwarfs did infact have spears and halberds, they were exclusively used in the underway to combat skaven and goblins, they used a shield to block the entrance to an area and had the spear/halberd to stabby kill kill.

    Ref: grudgelore.

    2nd: Slayers in this game are not what they are in both the fluff and the TT, in both they are elite unit mincers, they slaughter elite units in TT and take out monsters with laughable ease, numbers is what kills them both in the TT and fluff, Slayers should be the best anti elite unit in the game, demigryphs, greatswords etc, should be terrified to fight them, where as the humble goblin unit would slaughter them.

    3rd: Dwarfs did use cavalry, but not in a military role.

    Ref: Gotrek and Felix novels.

    Wow I did not know that, and apparently, neither did all these lore nazi's that claim to know more.

    Thanks for the info (BTW what animal did they use for their Calvary? Wolves? Goats?)
    For every poster that refers to fantasy factions as "order", "destruction", "death" or any other AoS term, I smash a stormcast model with a sledgehammer. (Why yes I do refer to it as my "Heldenhammer"...) This is fantasy. It says a lot about the posters here that they are so easily willing to interchange terms like that. Especially for a setting that's so widely hated by the crowd this game is supposed to cater to (fantasy players) Very reddit like.

    Just call them good factions or evil factions or better yet the faction's actual name please.
  • erza321erza321 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,350
    All the TT nazis pretty much pounced on my thread that suggested a few ideas on buffing Slayer.

    I think the Dwarfs would have a very decent responce with the Organ Gun if you could equip it with the Rune of Accuaracy and the Rune of Penetration.
  • FloppingerFloppinger Registered Users Posts: 527


    Giving Dwarfs a calvary will not hurt your precious little fa/tg/uy, lore nazi, mandated game difference between factions.

    Actually it will.

    The fast element of the dwarfen army are the Gyrocopters. If they don´t get the job done, you should petition to have them tweaked.

    There´s a lot of room for changes on them, from fire on the move, to devastating rotor blade attacks.

    Also, braced Dwarves should be a lot more resistant to getting knocked down by cav. Dwarves in general are way to vulnurable to getting their lines disrupted.

  • EimhosanEimhosan Registered Users Posts: 333
    edited October 2016


    Giving Dwarfs a calvary will not hurt your precious little fa/tg/uy, lore nazi, mandated game difference between factions.

    Actually it will.

    The fast element of the dwarfen army are the Gyrocopters. If they don´t get the job done, you should petition to have them tweaked.

    There´s a lot of room for changes on them, from fire on the move, to devastating rotor blade attacks.

    Also, braced Dwarves should be a lot more resistant to getting knocked down by cav. Dwarves in general are way to vulnurable to getting their lines disrupted.

    Just because a unit is fast does not make it Calvary......and please do not derail the topic with buffing gyrocopter posts

    IT DOESN'T MATTER IF DWARFS CAN TAKE A CAV KNOCKDOWN HIT OR NOT! If you were a cav unit trying to get past dwarfen lines, you wouldn't go through them like an idiot (I hope). NO, you would go around them and strike the artillery in the back There-go protecting your oncoming units from fire and having the enemy fight a non-artillery-softened army. "but what if the protecting infantry catches up before I can get to the artillary units?" LOL This is dwarf infantry we're talking about THEY WON'T. By the time they get there, you can pull out, route a new vulnerable point, and strike again. This is commonly called "hit and run" tactics That's why dwarfs need a cavalry, because they are always out-ran EVERY SINGLE TIME! But that's ok, it's typical characteristic for infantry. What a typical army would do to fix this is to use THEIR Calvary or protected range units (The latter only working for a limited period of time because they can sneak around your slow ass infantry)

    but thing is you HAVE no calvary so you constantly find yourself resetting your infantry and re-targeting the cav unit with ranged units (THAT YOU COULD BE USING TO ATTACK THE MAIN ENEMY FORCE) in hopes that it breaks

    and as for that: Does it work? Sometimes yes sometimes no, but even if it does, you just wasted ammo on something that wasn't the main force.
    For every poster that refers to fantasy factions as "order", "destruction", "death" or any other AoS term, I smash a stormcast model with a sledgehammer. (Why yes I do refer to it as my "Heldenhammer"...) This is fantasy. It says a lot about the posters here that they are so easily willing to interchange terms like that. Especially for a setting that's so widely hated by the crowd this game is supposed to cater to (fantasy players) Very reddit like.

    Just call them good factions or evil factions or better yet the faction's actual name please.
  • FerrousTarkusFerrousTarkus Registered Users Posts: 525
    edited October 2016
    There are many ways to make dwarfs and chaos balanced but giving them all kind of made up units is not the way to go. Plus they will lose their asymetry, asymetric balance IS fun.

    What you are asking for is not warhammer, you can always make a mod if its another game that you want.
  • FloppingerFloppinger Registered Users Posts: 527


    ....disagreeing with dwarf cavalry is derailing the topic.....ramble, ramble

    I´m derailing the topic, with suggesting cavalry counters for dwarves? Interesting...

    Keep pushing your agenda, but one thing is for sure, dwarves will never get cavalry. You can either chase your dream of wolf riding dwarves (lil hint there, dwarves are supposed to be heavier than humans) or you can start being constructive and think about how to implement cavalry counters with the stuff dwarves do have access to.

  • AvadonAvadon Registered Users Posts: 1,543


    ....disagreeing with dwarf cavalry is derailing the topic.....ramble, ramble

    I´m derailing the topic, with suggesting cavalry counters for dwarves? Interesting...

    Keep pushing your agenda, but one thing is for sure, dwarves will never get cavalry. You can either chase your dream of wolf riding dwarves (lil hint there, dwarves are supposed to be heavier than humans) or you can start being constructive and think about how to implement cavalry counters with the stuff dwarves do have access to.

    They do have the possibility to have another flying unit and maybe a war machine of golem nature or spinning death nature.

    Though......if only they could have a tank.

    Either way.......chaos dwarves will surpass the standard dwarves.

  • EimhosanEimhosan Registered Users Posts: 333
    edited October 2016


    ....disagreeing with dwarf cavalry is derailing the topic.....ramble, ramble

    I´m derailing the topic, with suggesting cavalry counters for dwarves? Interesting...

    Keep pushing your agenda, but one thing is for sure, dwarves will never get cavalry. You can either chase your dream of wolf riding dwarves (lil hint there, dwarves are supposed to be heavier than humans) or you can start being constructive and think about how to implement cavalry counters with the stuff dwarves do have access to.

    "....disagreeing with dwarf cavalry is derailing the topic.....ramble, ramble"
    Link removed
    Did I say that? noooooo I said that talking about buffing gyrocopters will be derailing the topic, because y'know it kinda is since were talking about dwarfen calvary ATM.

    but that's okay, just change your post so nobody will detect your stupidity...... unless somebody quotes you before you change your post......like me......OOOOOH SO CLOSE!

    The real irony is that my original post is up there ONE POST ABOVE yours. so that ANYONE with any suspicion of your **** can simply look at it and know it is in fact ****.

    (BTW if dwarfs are "too heavy to ride" like your clearly suggesting, why was it earlier stated that they DO have a calvary an simply don't use it for military purposes? That doesn't add up.)
    Post edited by BillyRuffian on
    For every poster that refers to fantasy factions as "order", "destruction", "death" or any other AoS term, I smash a stormcast model with a sledgehammer. (Why yes I do refer to it as my "Heldenhammer"...) This is fantasy. It says a lot about the posters here that they are so easily willing to interchange terms like that. Especially for a setting that's so widely hated by the crowd this game is supposed to cater to (fantasy players) Very reddit like.

    Just call them good factions or evil factions or better yet the faction's actual name please.
  • TheRainbowDwarfTheRainbowDwarf Registered Users Posts: 441
    edited October 2016
    There is no chance of units not in the 8th edition book making it in, outside of possible Regiments of Renown or obscure characters that exist in the fluff but not in the 8th edition army book, like the White Dwarf.

    RoR would just be buffed existing units anyway. Not sure why people still think CA can invent units that do not exist in army books.
  • AvadonAvadon Registered Users Posts: 1,543
    edited October 2016

    There is no chance of units not in the 8th edition book making it in, outside of possible Regiments of Renown or obscure characters that exist in the fluff but not in the 8th edition army book, like the White Dwarf.

    RoR would just be buffed existing units anyway. Not sure why people still think CA can invent units that do not exist in army books.

    So....bretonnia is effectly screwed?

    :D

  • FloppingerFloppinger Registered Users Posts: 527
    edited October 2016


    ....disagreeing with dwarf cavalry is derailing the topic.....ramble, ramble

    I´m derailing the topic, with suggesting cavalry counters for dwarves? Interesting...

    Keep pushing your agenda, but one thing is for sure, dwarves will never get cavalry. You can either chase your dream of wolf riding dwarves (lil hint there, dwarves are supposed to be heavier than humans) or you can start being constructive and think about how to implement cavalry counters with the stuff dwarves do have access to.

    "....disagreeing with dwarf cavalry is derailing the topic.....ramble, ramble"
    Video link removed.
    Did I say that? noooooo I said that talking about buffing gyrocopters will be derailing the topic, because y'know it kinda is since were talking about dwarfen calvary ATM.

    but that's okay, just change your post so nobody will detect your stupidity...... unless somebody quotes you before you change your post......like me......OOOOOH SO CLOSE!

    The real irony is that my original post is up there ONE POST ABOVE yours. so that ANYONE with any suspicion of your **** can simply look at it and know it is in fact ****.

    (BTW if dwarfs are "too heavy to ride" like your clearly suggesting, why was it earlier stated that they DO have a calvary an simply don't use it for military purposes? That doesn't add up.)
    1. Just because you are championing the idea of dwarven cavalry does not mean the thread is about dwarven cavalry, read the OP. And people aren´t derailing the thread for not sharing your opinion, unless you hijacked the thread to turn it into a dwarven cav thread.

    2. I didn´t change any of my posts. You know you can see that if somebodey does? Do you?
    It says "Post edited by (insert name) on (insert date) in red letters.

    3. Dwarfs do not have cavalry. Cavalry is military or used for war by definition. They might ride some beast for fun or whatever, haven´t read anything of the sort, but whatever, it might appear in some novel, but that is not cavalry.

    Dwarven solutions to the cavalry problem could be, Gyrocopters made more suitable for cavalry harassment, better accuracy, faster turn time and faster reload on their artillery, and more mass for their units so they don´t get knocked into the next post code when charged by cav.
    Post edited by dge1 on
  • IchonIchon Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,152
    Slayers don't feel right and a couple Dwarf units could have more weight- just enough to hold back a charge so Thunderers have enough time to turn. Dwarf ranged are supposed to be able to protect the line but they are just too slow in turning.

    If Slayers get a bit better vs cavalry, Hammerers and Iron had more weight and Dwarf ranged could turn a bit faster it would be fine.
    YouTube, it takes over your mind and guides you to strange places like tutorials on how to talk to a giraffe.
  • TotalWarChakaxTotalWarChakax Registered Users Posts: 601

    Walrus said:

    The Anvil of Doom is missing. Maybe it could be the answer to this Dwarfen problem.

    Edit: the Empire shouldnt have more range than the Dwarfs. In my opinion, dwarfen artillery should inflict more damage.

    Edit2: Slayers should get a buff (physical resistance?)

    As much as people would want it, I really don't think another ranged unit is going to save the day here.
    Nysalor said:

    Oh wait I got a better idea! how bout we just GIVE THE DWARFS A GDAMN CALVARY UNIT!

    and while your at it give the VC's some ranged units. (because any army that is missing entire components for the sake of lore is just plain stupid)

    Sorry, no. Some degree of deference to the lore is what makes this game Warhammer: Total War as opposed to Some Random Fantasy Setting: Total War, and maintaining that distinction is valuable to many of us in the community. Dwarfs don't get cavalry, VC don't get ranged, Greenskins don't get gunpowder or high-end cavalry, Empire doesn't get monsters, that's just how it is.
    Giving Dwarfs a calvary will not hurt your precious little fa/tg/uy, lore nazi, mandated game difference between factions. As I said before I'm only looking for A Calvary unit. Something just to keep up with the other factions. It doesn't need to be state of the art or re skin.

    Besides are you really going to argue that a race that makes helicopters, bombs, cannons, trains, and at one time freaking STONE GOLEMS.......Has never had the thought of "Hey see this pointy stick I found? We should make a metal version for it and poke people with it." Or "Hey were pretty slow, and our biggest enemies are always faster than us because they are riding wolves......why don't we ride wolves to keep up with them?" This is maybe the third/fourth smartest race in the old world (Depending on if you think Skaven are smarter than dwarfs, which is debatable.) Just because it was never in any book does not mean it's downright impossible or even unlikely. A race like the dwarfs would see their slowness as a weakness and would try to compensate for it.

    At the same time has it ever crossed a necromancers/vampires mind that "Hey I'm always throwing zombie after zombie at my enemies and I'm always coming back with less......what if I had my zombies shoot something like......a bow.....or a gun.... then I wouldn't need to raise more because they would never go into melee.....hmmm"

    Greenskins/empire are exactly what I would like to see for the dwarfs: They have every FORM of unit. Infantry, RI, Calvary, and artillery. Now the green skins don't have the latest and greatest artillery, but it's till there.

    Oh wait I got a better idea! how bout we just GIVE THE DWARFS A GDAMN CALVARY UNIT!

    and while your at it give the VC's some ranged units. (because any army that is missing entire components for the sake of lore is just plain stupid)

    I think those are terrible ideas. Asymmetrical balance is what makes this game great IMO! Streamlining should be avoided like the plague.

    All the best!
    \

    Oh wait I got a better idea! how bout we just GIVE THE DWARFS A GDAMN CALVARY UNIT!

    and while your at it give the VC's some ranged units. (because any army that is missing entire components for the sake of lore is just plain stupid)

    Ok, then we give ancient romans airplanes in rome 3, and in shogun 3 we get plasmagunners?

    Calmed down now: So you want all factions to be the same? the empire should get trolls? greenskins should get handgunners? vampires should get gyrocopters? Dwarfs get zombies? Beastmen get grail knights? Chaos get warrior priest? Grimgor should be able to get ghal Maraz? Baltazhar gelt gets Kholeks hammer? Lizardmen get chaos spawn? Empire gets stormcast eternals (that one was more to GW)

    Just get a mod if you want all factions to get all units!!!

    Translated from saurian

    That's not what I'm saying at all.
    I'm only saying that CERTAIN TYPES of units should be standard for all factions. They fall into four groups.

    Infantry By definition: Slow and steady melee units.
    Ranged infantry By definition: Infantry that has weak melee, but stronger ranged attack
    Calvary By definition: A faster than infantry unit that is used to out-maneuver or sneak past infantry, can (but does not have to) be equipped with a ranged attack.
    Artillery By definition: A ranged unit with very poor melee but makes up for it with extremely powerful and long-distance range attack

    All factions should have at least SOME FORM of these.

    Gyrocopters, steam tanks, giants, arachnoroks, etc is extra since they were never in any previous total war game. (And don't you dare bring up that stupid Persian elephant.) Now you're right, giving Gyro bombers to vampire counts and all your other examples would be silly, but Im NOT asking for dwarf zombies or any of that crap that would NEVER happen in Warhammer. I'm asking for bare minimum and something that is vital for certain strategies. There are tactics THAT WOULD BE PERFECT FOR THE SITUATION, but I can't do because WHOOPS! picked the wrong faction.

    Crazy, I'm barred from certain tactics when I'm the dwarfs or VC's, BUT when Im playing Bretonia, The Empire, or the Orks (Orks moreover because their army is dirt cheap+monster units) I can do whatever strategy I want so long as I actually have the units in my stack. Do you see from here it's better that I get the latter three even before the game even starts?

    You call that balance? You call that fair?

    Now that doesn't mean that all of the units need to be the same. The stats can vary greatly between different factions units VC's can have different stats then the empire and so on. They also don't have to be reskins either. they can be totally unique in their own way. For example:

    Skull launcher
    faction: VC
    type: Artillary (Catapult that throws severed heads in a "Clusterbomb" fashion) High range, low melee. Effective against infantry, morale debuff if enemy hit is human.
    At first the skull launcher was used to terrify any Sylvanian rebels that would dare challenge the Von Carsteins, It then became useful for scaring away inhabitants of new territory.

    See that's all you have to do. take a basic design for a Calvary unit and make it "dwarfy" -Smaller, maybe have them ride on rams or goats instead of horses.( or maybe ponies? but they have a bad reputation here on the internet...) Give them dwarf- like halbreds (proportional to the dwarfs themselves) and put a dwarf warrior on and boom: dwarf calvery. It really isn't that hard and there is a mod for it already. "Then why whine here when you can use the mod?" Because the mod is pretty much a thane on a Griffin/wolf. It doesn't feature a unique model and everybody who looks at it knows it's a mod. It's like fake boobs- Yeah they get the job done, but EVERYBODY can see that they're not real. (Not to mention the mod is buggy as hell)

    Will this solve everything? No, (Slayers need a HUGE buff, and the flame cannon? I'm on the verge of saying "Forget reworking it Just get rid of it." but both are for another day.) but It takes care of the constant sneaky little black knights always managing to get to your quarrelers and grudgethrowers since your longbeards are too slow. (Those of you who play Dwarf, you know EXACTLY what I'm talking about)

    Every faction deserves the bare minimum of an army. It does not have to be the best one out there, nor does it have to have EXACT MATCHING STAT'S AND APPEARANCES, but it does have to be THERE.

    THAT is what I WANT, and NO it is not a terrible idea or "streamlining" . It is reasonable and a big part of what the dwarfs need.

    KHAZUKAN-KHAZAKIT-HA BITCH!

    All the best tho :) (I added this part here because it doesn't matter how offensive you are so long as you make the closing nice and polite lol.)
    But they don't have cav in Lore, and they do have a unit that is a faster infantry unit that is used to out-maneuver or sneak past infantry: THE SLAYERS. (but i agree slayers need a buff)


    EDIT: Dwarfs don't have halberds or spears either
    Slayers are not a Calvary unit and you know it. In this game they act more as a armor-less spear infantry......that sucks at their job.

    Well at least they get to fulfill their oaths........
    Formosa said:

    just for clarity here.

    1st: Dwarfs did infact have spears and halberds, they were exclusively used in the underway to combat skaven and goblins, they used a shield to block the entrance to an area and had the spear/halberd to stabby kill kill.

    Ref: grudgelore.

    2nd: Slayers in this game are not what they are in both the fluff and the TT, in both they are elite unit mincers, they slaughter elite units in TT and take out monsters with laughable ease, numbers is what kills them both in the TT and fluff, Slayers should be the best anti elite unit in the game, demigryphs, greatswords etc, should be terrified to fight them, where as the humble goblin unit would slaughter them.

    3rd: Dwarfs did use cavalry, but not in a military role.

    Ref: Gotrek and Felix novels.

    Wow I did not know that, and apparently, neither did all these lore nazi's that claim to know more.

    Thanks for the info (BTW what animal did they use for their Calvary? Wolves? Goats?)
    Just because one person says dwarfen cavalry are lorefull do you belive it? And IF it is true, he said that they didn't have a military role, which means they don't have cavalry, they just can ride animals.

    And the reason necromancners and vampires don't use zombies and archers with bows is since they have to control them, that means aiming for every single one of them. The reason it works for the Tomb Kings is since the TK skeletons have their own mind
  • TheRainbowDwarfTheRainbowDwarf Registered Users Posts: 441
    edited October 2016
    Avadon said:

    So....bretonnia is effectly screwed?

    I wouldn't say screwed, but they aren't going to get a lot of units when their roster is fleshed out. A few characters, more lores, three or so units.

    Of course, they haven't had an army book for many years, and it is possible GW had some stuff planned for them but decided to end Warhammer in favor of Age of Sigmar and so perhaps maybe, just maybe, there will be some new units that never got to see the light of day. Stuff that was planned for an 8th edition army book before they took a sledgehammer to Warhammer and replaced it with the aberrant abortion that is Age of Shitmar.

    I wouldn't hold my breath about this, but Brets are the only army I'm aware of that never got a book before the end of Warhammer (Chaos Dwarves don't count, they've been dead since 4th edition) since 6th edition, and Wood Elves, the other army that almost didnt get a book since 6th, got some new units in their final book.

    On topic:

    1) More charge resist (not more Mass, for the love of Grungni)
    2) Charge defense on shielded missile troops
    3) Organ Gun with much improved turn rate
    4) Anvil of Doom
  • FloppingerFloppinger Registered Users Posts: 527
    I think CA has to create some units of their own for Bretonnia. Not that their roster isn´t interesting or capable, but they are clearly lacking Infantry that is capable of taking or defending walls in siege battles. Whether they introduce dismount options for cav, or make dismounted knight units only time will tell.

    My guess, is that they´ll make questing knights as foot units rather than cavalry. That´d plug a gap in the Bretonnian roster and lets face it, wielding two handers on horseback, even it was in the TT is kinda stupid. I mean it works for wraiths with their scythes, but that´s undead ghost things, a human with a two handed sword, c´mon.
    I could be totally wrong of course.
  • chiefthanchiefthan Registered Users Posts: 413
    erza321 said:

    Oh wait I got a better idea! how bout we just GIVE THE DWARFS A GDAMN CALVARY UNIT!

    and while your at it give the VC's some ranged units. (because any army that is missing entire components for the sake of lore is just plain stupid)

    Ok, then we give ancient romans airplanes in rome 3, and in shogun 3 we get plasmagunners?

    Calmed down now: So you want all factions to be the same? the empire should get trolls? greenskins should get handgunners? vampires should get gyrocopters? Dwarfs get zombies? Beastmen get grail knights? Chaos get warrior priest? Grimgor should be able to get ghal Maraz? Baltazhar gelt gets Kholeks hammer? Lizardmen get chaos spawn? Empire gets stormcast eternals (that one was more to GW)

    Just get a mod if you want all factions to get all units!!!

    Translated from saurian

    There is a mod that gives the Dwarfs Boar and Griffon riding units, as well as another that gives the Dwarfs a flame thrower version of the Steam Tank.

    For a Total War game the Dwarves from the Hobbit/LoTR universe would be easier to balance, because in the extended edition of the Hobbit Battle of The Five Armies the Dwarves get cavalry and charoits by using what appear to be Goats.

    It appears CA is having issues trying to balance things for the Dwarfs when cavalry has almost always been king in almost every single Total War game and the Dwarfs completely lack cavalry.
    those blaspemhy goats and the like are invented by the films in the books dwarves have no chavaly
    and sho should it be both in LOTR and warhammer
  • Wing ZeroWing Zero Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 827
    Give miners an anti large bonus.

    Problem solved.
    ''The difficulty of tactical maneuvering consists in turning the devious into the direct, and misfortune into gain.
    -Sun Tzu

    "Tolerance, Diversity, Strength"
    - Seleucid

    Team Chaos Dwarf
  • HarconnHarconn Registered Users Posts: 937
    thebiglez said:

    Wing Zero said:

    The problem with CA, theyre trying to balance every unit, which is ridiculous, because factions like empire, which has every unit, has the advantage, because there are no weaknesses.

    Empire should be jack of all trades, NOT Master of ALL

    Greatswords should not be beating dwarf infantry in equal cost in any circumstance.

    Dwarf artillery should not be outranged by Empire.

    this would be sooo good!! pls CA do it
    +1
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    My German Youtube-Channel - Let's Plays (Strategy, RPG, Indie,...): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChwblqvwr8XxKP0GzCcUb8Q
  • HarconnHarconn Registered Users Posts: 937
    Harconn said:

    thebiglez said:

    Wing Zero said:

    The problem with CA, theyre trying to balance every unit, which is ridiculous, because factions like empire, which has every unit, has the advantage, because there are no weaknesses.

    Empire should be jack of all trades, NOT Master of ALL

    Greatswords should not be beating dwarf infantry in equal cost in any circumstance.

    Dwarf artillery should not be outranged by Empire.

    this would be sooo good!! pls CA do it
    +1

    BTW: Dwarfs are using Ponys in the lore. But not for military purposes.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    My German Youtube-Channel - Let's Plays (Strategy, RPG, Indie,...): https://www.youtube.com/channel/UChwblqvwr8XxKP0GzCcUb8Q
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