Possible future LL speculation list

Red_Dox · November 2016

So to keep it short, here is a "Who can come as LL?" list, as complete as I could manage (still a work in progress but "finished" enough for public view and at least all TT models with rules should be covered).

Since end of 2019 we now know

Araby

Beasts of Chaos [Beastmen]

Bretonnia

Ruling Nobility of the feudal system

Other special characters

Chaos Dwarfs

Hobgoblins

Gorduz Backstabber [armybook 4th]

Grudgingly I would also consider

Shar'tor the Executioner [Age of Sigmar]
Since his designstyle is not so far fetched off, like other AoS crap. And Dawi Zharr have a rather limited pool of special chars, compared to other races.

Daemons of Chaos

Undivided

Be'lakor, The Dark Master [Black Library scroll 8th]

Khorne

Tzeentch

Nurgle

Slaanesh

Dark Elves

Dwarfs

Kings & Queens

Other special characters

High Elves

Kislev

Lizardmen

Red_Dox · November 2016

Norsca

Ogre Kingdoms

Orcs & Goblins

Orcs

Savage Orcs

Black Orcs

Goblins

Forest Goblins

Snagla Grobspit [armybook 8th]

Night Goblins

Skaven

Ruling Council of Thirteen (Lords of Decay)

1.) Seerlord Kritislik, Grey Seer
2.) Lord Gnawdwell, Clan Mors
3.) Kratch Doomclaw, Clan Rictus
4.) Lord Paskrit, Warlord-General (Unknown Clan)
5.) Vrisk Ironscratch, Clan Scurvy
6.) Griznekt Mancarver, Clan Skab
7.) Unknown, possibly Clan Morbidus
8.) Unknown, possibly Clan Carrion
9.) Nightlord Sneek, Clan Eshin (unconfirmed)
10.) Arch-Plaguelord Nurglitch, Clan Pestilens [Lustria campaign 6th]
11.) Packlord Verminkin, Clan Moulder
12.) Lord Morskittar, Clan Skryre

Clan Eshin

Clan Moulder

Clan Pestilens

Clan Skyre

The Grey Seers

Grey Seer Thanquol & Boneripper [armybook 7th]

Other special characters

The Empire

Ruling Electors

Head Magisters of the Colleges of Magic

Others

Tilea/Estalia/Border Princes [aka Dogs of War]

Borgio, Prince of Miragliano, [armybook 5th]
Gashnag, The Black Prince [No TT rules, WFRP Nights Dark Masters]
Ghazak Khan, Terror of the East [WD#231]
Leonardo Da Miragliano [armybook 5th]
Lietpold, The Black [Tamurkhan campaign 8th]
Lorenzo Lupo, Prince of Lucinni [armybook 5th]
Lucrezzia Belladonna [armybook 5th]
Marco Colombo [armybook 5th]
Mydas, The Mean [armybook 5th]

Tomb Kings

~~Settra, The Imperishable [armybook 8th]~~
~~Arkhan, The Black [armybook 8th]~~
~~High Queen Khalida Neferher, Beloved of the Asp Goddess [armybook 8th]~~
~~Grand Hierophant Khatep [armybook 8th]~~
King Amanhotep, the Intolerant [Dreadfleet]
Nekaph, The Herald [armybook 8th]
Prince Apophas [armybook 8th]
Prince Tutankhanut [Undead Collectorguide 6th]
Ramhotep, The Visionary [armybook 8th]
Sehenesmet, Vizier of Quatar [WD rules 6th]

Vampire Coast

~~Aranessa Saltspite, Queen of the Tides [Dreadfleet]~~
~~Cylostra Direfin, Siren of the Storm [TWW Origin]~~
~~Luthor Harkon [6th, WD#306]~~
~~Nyklaus von Carstein, Count Noctilus [Dreadfleet]~~
Skretch Half-Dead [Dreadfleet]
Vangheist [Dreadfleet]

Red_Dox · November 2016

Vampire Counts

Associated Undead (Necromancers, Wraiths, Banshees, Wight Kings) + Vampires with no known Bloodline

The Blood Dragons: Knights Eternal

The Lahmians: Deathless Courtiers

The Necrarchs: Discipled of the Accursed

The Strigoi: Beasts in Shadows

The Von Carsteins: Princes of Darkness

Warriors of Chaos

Undivided

Khorne

Tzeentch

Nurgle

Slaanesh

Malal ---> (due to IP problems, higly unlikely)

Kaleb Daark [third edition ?]

Wood Elves

The (horrible) Endtimes

Beasts of Chaos [Beastmen]

The Harbringer [Endtimes: Glottkin]

Bretonnia

Daemons of Chaos

Khorne

Tzeentch

Tchenzen, Of the Silver Claw [Endtimes: Archaon]

Nurgle

Slaanesh

Sslivox, The Serpent [Endtimes: Archaon]

Dark Elves

Dwarfs

High Elves

Lizardmen

Orcs & Goblins

Skaven

The Empire

Tomb Kings

Vampire Counts

Warriors of Chaos

Nagash, Drachenfels, Morcar see
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/188567/supervillains-tww-nagash-drachenfels-morcar

Dogs of War compilation,
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/189962/dogs-of-war-compilation

Funstuff:

Gnoblar Horde armylist & Gnoblar culture: [WD#310] (even if I doubt CA will regard them as a fun subfaction ^^)
New World Norse: [WD#309]
Skaven Clan Moulder armylist + Special Kemmler armylist: [WD#311]
Skaven Warpstone Rat Tank 6th: http://i.imgur.com/gKWgWVv.png or [WD#245 5th]
Halfling Soup Tank: http://imgur.com/gallery/gOwO6 --> [WD#314]
Member Warcry Cardgame? http://www.tradecardsonline.com/im/selectCard/game_id/16/goal/add-4363708 looks like CA have a steady source of Regiments of Renown alone there
Kislev armybooklet (came from Citadel Journal) 4th edition: http://www.4shared.com/web/preview/pdf/AdKH2N85
Kislev armybooklet (came free with White Dwarf) from 6th edition: http://sgabetto.free.fr/Telechargements/kislev-book.pdf
Cult of Ulric WD list 6th: http://sgabetto.free.fr/Telechargements/cult-of-ulric.pdf
Army of Middenheim list (Storm of Chaos) 6th:
http://i.imgur.com/67YcATrr.png
http://i.imgur.com/BgB8J1zr.png
http://i.imgur.com/tNi8gWhr.png
http://i.imgur.com/0QMhG85r.png
Zombie Pirates of the Vampire coast: http://sgabetto.free.fr/Telechargements/War.CZombiePirates.pdf
Khemri Giants rules: https://immaterium.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/khemrigiants.pdf
Goblobber [Citadel Journal rules 6th], model way older
The Moot [CJ rules]: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/comment/1705972/#Comment_1705972
Norse Citadel Journal rules (4th edition): https://www.file-upload.net/download-12603484/Norsca.pdf.html
Dwarf Thunderbarge (8th "big" rulebook): http://i.imgur.com/FOstDw9.png

-----Red Dox

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Philoslothical · November 2016

Was waiting for your list haha !

Got some Lore reading to do. Thanks for the good work !

Arcani_4_Ever · November 2016

Wow. That List is huge. I doubt we will ever get all those characters.

We are gonna need a lot of sub-factions.

As a way to make this List more interesting. You should add the potential factions and sub-factions they should be aligned to.

Because there are so many characters i don't think CA will keep them on a single faction.

Sub-factions for all Races are definitely coming.

Arcani_4_Ever · November 2016

Additionally regarding Daemons and Chaos

I have a small suggestion.

Could you please divide some Lords from Chaos Warriors and Chaos Daemons and put them on their respective Chaos God factions.

Because if the leak is right. CA is planning to make 4 Daemon of Chaos factions.

Valkia the Bloody is definitely going to be Khorne's Daemons Faction Leader. She won't a LL for the Chaos Warriors faction.

Moritasgus · November 2016

The 4e Dwarf army book had a K8P battle campaign, assisting Belegar is another named lord with rules.
Lord Duregar of Karaz-a-Karak.
Minor character with little or no history but no different to Ghorst, pg.50ish in the book.
Also named is Runesmith Hurgar the Black. Same page.

corvo · November 2016

Great work gathering all this material my friend!.

TheOrganKing · November 2016

Sir Calard of Garamont (From The Knights of Brettnia Novel series), also happens to be the grail knight on the cover of the 6th edition Brettonia army book.

Egil Styrbjorn, High Jarl of the Skaelings, for either WoC or norsca if they become their own faction. (Grail knight and Knight of the Realm novels)

Both of those characters are near perfect for a Lord DLC, both having named wargear as well as a very personal rivalry between each other.

There is also a whole bunch of characters referenced in the Beastmen 7th ed army book, who are like Duke Alberic, named but with no model or rules;

Kloven Blood-Gorge
Skarr Black-Horn
Khorok Manripper
Ragush of the Bloody Horn
Magok the Stone Horn

If any of these are actually to come out then I would like it to be Magok, because he more or less started an entire war against the Skaven and even Killed a Grey Seer in Single combat.

Longshanks · November 2016

Im kinda wishfull hoping for Galrauch

alex33 · November 2016

Arcani 4 Ever said:
Additionally regarding Daemons and Chaos

I have a small suggestion.

Could you please divide some Lords from Chaos Warriors and Chaos Daemons and put them on their respective Chaos God factions.

Because if the leak is right. CA is planning to make 4 Daemon of Chaos factions.

Valkia the Bloody is definitely going to be Khorne's Daemons Faction Leader. She won't a LL for the Chaos Warriors faction.

Valkia is not a daemon. She is a chaos warrior ll.

I would suggest king amanhotep the intolerant of zandri would make a great lord for the tk's. Especially if they include ship based combat

TheGuardianOfMetal · November 2016

alex33 said:

Valkia is not a daemon. She is a chaos warrior ll.

I would suggest king amanhotep the intolerant of zandri would make a great lord for the tk's. Especially if they include ship based combat

she is a daemon... she died and Khorne brought her back to live as a Daemon Princess of his

Red_Dox · November 2016

We can argue that Valkia is part daemon, from the lore point, but
-she has no special rules regarding real Daemons (Daemonic Aura, Instability, Daemonic Attacks)
-she is explicitily listed in the "Warriors of Chaos" armybook (7th+8th), which shifts her in the "mortal" range.

Since CA wants to keep the races seperated as are the books in 8th, Daemon LLs will probably first be chosen from the Daemons armybook. And why should we shift Valkia over there, if we have Skulltaker & Skarbrand already as an option for "Khorne leading Daemons"? Valkia has better chances to lead a WoC Khorne themed campaign/army (second standalone expansion), just because she is a 8th arymbook Lord there instead of many "older" Khorne WoC Lords/heroes from the past.

-----Red Dox

Bel_Isar · November 2016

Wow, quite some work you put in there!

Still hoping for playable Empire-Provinces with their Count as LL.

jamreal18 · November 2016

Very Nice Red Dox! Very Nice...

I suggest you put pictures to show how they look like...

Anyways, Im really wondering how Ca picks whom LL are going to appear in the game...

Check out this thread:

https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/183236/cas-criteria-for-choosing-which-legendary-lord-to-become-playable#latest

From I what i saw in another article, CA wants different type of LL for each race...
For example, if 1 LL is melee, they will pick another type whom is mage... but the thing is some other type of LL are not popular...

For me, I prefer if CA picks those who are popular or expected by some of the community rather than picking someone nobody expects...

VlKlNG · November 2016

Wow that must have taken you AGES to compile! Respect!

If CA weren't so.... CAish I would say this deserves a sticky but such is life.

Tumble · November 2016

Meh, i'd have liked legendary heroes to have been a thing instead of heroes being made to lords. That chaos bull centaur model is incredible

Red_Dox · November 2016

VlKNG said:
Wow that must have taken you AGES to compile! Respect!

Definitly took its time

Losing an evening of work after exceeding the draft format and so stuff got deleted/not saved proper was for example a setback. But it is still a work in progress. Right at the moment I still have a bunch of guys from lore left to check out. For exmple, member these guys?

And to flip through old WDs has its perks with finding interesting older articles (say what you want, but the 6th edition was probably the most diversed and the best for "content for fans").
Still not sure if I should include the huge pile of horrible Endtimes redshirts in the lists or maybe make a own category for them.

Arcani 4 Ever said:
Additionally regarding Daemons and Chaos
Could you please divide some Lords from Chaos Warriors and Chaos Daemons and put them on their respective Chaos God factions.

Divided WoC, DoC, Vampires & Skaven in their Gods/Bloodlines/Clans. And added some WFRP Vampires to bolster their ranks for that.
But I think thats it. Dividing Empire/Elves/Dwarfs/etc. is probably a nightmare since most of the models have no "clear" faction part. Having a huge stack of "Associates" like with the VCs, while one or two names will stand in a Dwarf karak/Empire province/etc. does probably not look that good.

jamreal18 said:

For me, I prefer if CA picks those who are popular or expected by some of the community rather than picking someone nobody expects...

Well, their "strange" picking seems only to start when the obvious choices are made. King Louen & Morgiana for Bretonnia were clear from showing us Bretonnia on the map. Alberic is the wildcard as a third, but to be fair even if Bretonnia has a huge ammount of guys left, some of them do not offer so much different to King Louren/Morgiana.

I mean we can also expect that Skaven will start with Thanquol. I see no way around that. We can further assume that Queek Headtaker will be in from start, to finish the Eigth Peaks quartet (and maybe offer a different startposition to Skavenblight) oder at least will come with a DLC/Patch later. Also at least one Clan Pestilens charakter will probably be in from start or come through DLC/Patch for trouble in Lustria.
But besides that, who knows who else could be a lucky winner in LL lottery?

Guessing who shows up for Woodelves is a bit more tricky. Ariel for example could get a starting spot but she would also make a good LL for one of those rival DLCs versus Morghur. Which could bring extra units/RoR for both DLCs, effectivly ending in "DLC for DLC and Money for the Money God"

-----Red Dox

Moritasgus · November 2016

How exhaustive are you looking to be on named loreful characters?
I gave you a few above is that what you are looking for or are they too vague?
Happy to drop in any other names and sources i find if you want me to.

Red_Dox · November 2016

Moritasgus said:
How exhaustive are you looking to be on named loreful characters?
I gave you a few above is that what you are looking for or are they too vague?
Happy to drop in any other names and sources i find if you want me to.

Can't say right now. Saved every name mentioned here, but have not looked over Beastmens and Dwarfs in that case again. By Dwarfs the next look will be on the WFRP, I know that at least the Stone & Steel book has a own "Renown Dwarfs" section, so that should probably add a few names.

For lore names I have probably to decide how "important" they are after all. I remember Duregar from the Eigth Peaks battle. But if that was his only accomplishment, he will probably be left out because his role in the world is "to small" and does not offer anything that other already included sideshow redshirts can't do the same. In that case I see more "value" in campaign redshirts then pure lore redshirts.

Black Library novel charakters in that case are also a bit hard to decide. I mean Malus Darkblade, which first premiered in the Warhammer monthly Comics, then got the story retold in books and then got his own miniature and TT rules is the prime example how it could work (even better then Felix & Gotrek who are still more adventurer/mercenary then world conquering LLs). But other novel charakters do not seem fit for LL expectations (for example: Genevive) and I have not read that many BL novels in that regard (like above mentioned Bretonnia novel for Sir Calard) so need some more browsing on the web and evaluating.

Just pile in names if you have ones, they do not get lost here (except CA or a eager mod starts deleting for whatever reason) and even if it may take a long period of time to filter through, I probably do at one point

------Red Dox

VlKlNG · November 2016

I mean we can also expect that Skaven will start with Thanquol. I see no way around that. We can further assume that Queek Headtaker will be in from start, to finish the Eigth Peaks quartet (and maybe offer a different startposition to Skavenblight) oder at least will come with a DLC/Patch later. Also at least one Clan Pestilens charakter will probably be in from start or come through DLC/Patch for trouble in Lustria.
But besides that, who knows who else could be a lucky winner in LL lottery

-----Red Dox

If Ikit Claw doesn't make it in I will cry profusely!

jamreal18 · November 2016

Nice to know that Wood Elves has many options for LL...

DerPhonix · November 2016

Awesome list! Looking at the units list from the link below, looks like some are missing for the Empire.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?733169-Information-Thread-for-Potential-New-Empire-Units&p=15134354&viewfull=1#post15134354

erza321 · November 2016

It's worth noting both Gorbad Ironclaw and Grom the Paunch both have kind of a King Arthur routine to them (the Welsh folklore version), both lose their respective final battles. Not to mention neither of them have been confirmed dead at the end of their respective story arcs and just sort of vanish with whispers of their possible return among the greenskins.

alex33 · November 2016

erza321 said:
It's worth noting both Gorbad Ironclaw and Grom the Paunch both have kind of a King Arthur routine to them (the Welsh folklore version), both lose their respective final battles. Not to mention neither of them have been confirmed dead at the end of their respective story arcs and just sort of vanish with whispers of their possible return among the greenskins.

Do want the grim and the fat dlc!

Red_Dox · November 2016

erza321 said:
It's worth noting both Gorbad Ironclaw and Grom the Paunch both have kind of a King Arthur routine to them (the Welsh folklore version), both lose their respective final battles. Not to mention neither of them have been confirmed dead at the end of their respective story arcs and just sort of vanish with whispers of their possible return among the greenskins.

The problem with Gorbad
A)he never recovered from his Runesword wound. Which in the end weakend him hard enough to lose his tght grip on his Waagh. And he failed at sieging Altdorf and got beaten pretty bad in the aftermath by the dwarves before he vanished.
B)his prime time was 1707-1712. Despite the idea that he is long dead, the question is if such a old relic would stand a chance in "modern days" combat

C)after all, he would just be another Orc Warboss in competition to Azhag & Grimgor. Imo they could better make Gorfang Rotgut a true LL first (for the Karak Eigth Peaks quartet).

Grom vanishing in 2424 could be easier flexed in the game (second Goblin LL would be not bad). But since his Waaagh! reached Ulthuan, I have no hopes for him before the first standalone expansion. And even then I doubt he is in from start. I see more of a Grom the Paunch VS Eltharion the Grim DLC as possible future.

Der Phönix said:
Awesome list! Looking at the units list from the link below, looks like some are missing for the Empire.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?733169-Information-Thread-for-Potential-New-Empire-Units&p=15134354&viewfull=1#post15134354

Nice list but have to see what from their stuff is useful. Some names are more or less "pointless". For example, listing Detlef Sierck. There is just no way that he would happen as LL. Or the High Priestess of Shallya for that case

-----Red Dox

Moritasgus · November 2016

Red Dox said:

erza321 said:
I

Nice list but have to see what from their stuff is useful. Some names are more or less "pointless". For example, listing Detlef Sierck. There is just no way that he would happen as LL. Or the High Priestess of Shallya for that case

-----Red Dox
But isn't that the point you made at the very beginning of your OP about Ghorst that literally 'anyone' could become a LL including long dead characters?

erza321 · November 2016

Actually Gorbad would be somewhere in the middle between Azhag and Grimgor or be a more mobile version of Grimgor, because of his unique mount Gnarla. Also Gorbad wouldn't be such an old relic, because it's unkown if Greenskins actually die of old age and because of their warlike nature usually ends in their early demise (It's also unkown if Greenskins actually keep aging, beyond adrenaline enhanced growth).

Red_Dox · November 2016

Moritasgus said:

But isn't that the point you made at the very beginning of your OP about Ghorst that literally 'anyone' could become a LL including long dead characters?

Anyone, that makes sense. Like for example every one that had TT rules or was at least redshirt in a campaign. Or *could be* a world conquering leader and army general if we stretch over to WFRP/lore decisions.

Detlef Sierck is a theather guy, a really good actor, a good writer for plays. He is a absolute desaster with financing a play (hence his adventure starts with him in prison for a really huge debt). Brave enough to fight but with no real experience or training he could probably hold a Goblin at bay but five or more will eat him for breakfeast. He is, at no means, someone who should even be considered LL (hence novel char with no TT rules). If we do, we can also call for random beggers of Altdorf and we got at least 150 sideshow charakters from different WFRP adventures out of hill billy towns, like Martha the tavern wench, who also could be considerd.

And Highpriest of Shallyah is similar. Think of Mother Theresa. Would you appoint her Emperess and Armygeneral/Warleader?

-----Red Dox

Canuovea · November 2016

Alberic of Bordeleaux has no rules or model. But he does make sense in that he is, well, actually a Lord or leader figure.

Setrus · November 2016

Considering the OP's summary, I would not expect some minor character to appear in any of the new games right away. So while Malekith is an obvious choice for a starting LL for a Dark Elf expansion, Crone Hellebron isn't.
But once dlc's for either new lords or new factions with lords come into play, it's almost...open season? As mentioned, Vlad's been dead for ages but now comes back, Ghorst was a very small character in the lore and such, yet can now be a lord equalling any starting lord with far richer background.

I know Alberic is coming with the playability of Bretonnia, but that's for an already established race, at least somewhat, for an already established game with a delay on top of it, so I wouldn't use him as a rule for what will come with races in new expansions.

It's good to take this one into account when speaking of this as well:

The new lord on the far right of the "plan" has a spiky background, so I'm thinking either chaos or VC, given the houses in the foreground I'm going to guess it's the VC getting some extra love.
Now, it's next to Bretonnia, so there's a chance there that it's some lord tied to Mousillon. However, the White Dwarf is mashed in ahead of the "plan", so such an assumption has a glaring hole in it, ergo, it could be anyone.

If the assumption of Mousillon holds, the Red Duke is a real viable candidate. Sure, he's the scourge of Acqutaine, but he's at least frequenting Bretonnia and as a lord taking over Mousillon he would be perfectly positioned to continuing the scourging.
Wallach Harkon is also possible, but thematically it doesn't fit as well, I feel.

If, however, the Moussilon assumption doesn't hold, I'd vote Neferata in a heartbeat. She's awesome, different and considering Vlad and Mannfred could bury the hatchet, I see no reason why she wouldn't be possible as another LL choice for the VC. Heck, during the heresy that is the End Times she was regent of Sylvania!

Beyond that, however, I can only think the obvious lords will be first choice for any race in the expansions but that minor characters are fair game for anything following that.
At least that's my opinion.

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