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Please CA.... Fix the Waywatchers before launch of the Wood Elves DLC.

revolut1onrevolut1on Registered Users Posts: 1
I've watched a number of the livestreams, youtube vids and analysis vids about the wood elves DLC since it was announced and I am so very excited. The Asrai were my first TT army and I essentially bought the game in order to play them.

But I am really, really disappointed with how Waywatchers have been implemented. With reduced unit size, even when able to shoot and run, their damage output is pathetic - especially for costing 1200 gold and 300 upkeep per turn! These are the BEST archers of the Old World we are talking about here. They should wreck anything that comes in range of a group of them. Yet they don't. Good, yes. But I've seen handgunners/thunderers focus fire for much more damage... And the base Glade Guard seem to out DPS the Waywatchers, too.

In the TT, they were excellent at sniping down units, even with very few models - unfortunately, that isn't translating to the DLC yet. PLEASE adjust this before launch, it would be an easy fix.
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Comments

  • MooncakeMooncake Registered Users Posts: 496
    Wouldn't be the first time an elite unit on the tabletop disappoints in this game. Wild Riders don't seem too good either.
  • StephinceStephince Registered Users Posts: 2,460
    Wait to see how they play firsthand.
    Wait to see how skills/techs etc help.
    Wait to see how battlefield synergies might help.
    Wait to see if they are subsequently buffed in a patch.
    Wait and see.
  • dodge33cymrudodge33cymru Registered Users Posts: 1,864
    As above, give it a chance before moaning, eh?
  • theedge634theedge634 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,775
    If you're single player... mod them to your liking. If you like multiplayer, gonna have to wait for the next patch unfortunately.
  • torsken_deadtorsken_dead Member Registered Users Posts: 138
    now while im no TT veteran i Watched legend of total wars video..


    And you can see that there is no sense bringing them when glade guard have moore men less coin to get etc etc

    Also wild riders, who supposedly have the highest charge in the TT have a charge of 44....... just yeah ok
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Registered Users Posts: 1,487
    Mooncake said:

    Wouldn't be the first time an elite unit on the tabletop disappoints in this game. Wild Riders don't seem too good either.

    I think they need to be anti large.
  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,023

    now while im no TT veteran i Watched legend of total wars video..


    And you can see that there is no sense bringing them when glade guard have moore men less coin to get etc etc

    Also wild riders, who supposedly have the highest charge in the TT have a charge of 44....... just yeah ok

    Really? Thats a bit pathetic.
  • PrayPray Registered Users Posts: 1,355
    Agree , 25 missile dmg and no special missile make this unit so useless.

  • torsken_deadtorsken_dead Member Registered Users Posts: 138
    edited December 2016
    Krunch said:

    now while im no TT veteran i Watched legend of total wars video..


    And you can see that there is no sense bringing them when glade guard have moore men less coin to get etc etc

    Also wild riders, who supposedly have the highest charge in the TT have a charge of 44....... just yeah ok

    Really? Thats a bit pathetic.


    And the 360 degree firing angle is pretty useless since u can just order a glade guard unit to turn? Xd

    But mabey it is subject to change :)

    Although the 44 charge on wild riders make me cry , and any of the lord buff arguments wont work either
    Because all units get that from all other factions as well

    Only thing is if their higher speed makes tje charge good but their speed is not tjat great if you look at the stats
  • StephinceStephince Registered Users Posts: 2,460
    Maybe they have a higher mass to make them more effective
  • englisharcher89englisharcher89 Senior Member Bath, UKRegistered Users Posts: 3,989
    Stephince said:

    Wait to see how they play firsthand.
    Wait to see how skills/techs etc help.
    Wait to see how battlefield synergies might help.
    Wait to see if they are subsequently buffed in a patch.
    Wait and see.

    But..... but MP balance!
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  • torsken_deadtorsken_dead Member Registered Users Posts: 138
    Stephince said:

    Maybe they have a higher mass to make them more effective

    Lets hope:) but i have never seen a stag ,that would out wheigh a full grown warhorse ,and with armor on that :)

    But getting of track now :)

    Would be nice if the waywatchers get some usefull feature that is too good to pass up
  • MooncakeMooncake Registered Users Posts: 496
    I didn't notice the charge on the Wild Riders. What were they thinking? That is honestly just terrible. They really need more than one person on their balance team.
  • GunKingGunKing Registered Users Posts: 597
    edited December 2016
    Fix their animations too. They look like they share the same animation as Greatswords :/

    EDIT: LUL! Just realized I was thinking of a different WE unit. Oh well.
    Post edited by GunKing on
  • Omega_WarriorOmega_Warrior Registered Users Posts: 791
    It's likely too late to make changes at this point, but yeah the waywatchers really stood out to me as the obvious weak link of the faction. They got AP but other then that they didn't seem to do that much more damage then even standard glade guard. They got a little more utility, but nothing that seems to justify such a high price point. We will see though, maybe there's something we are missing.
  • PrayPray Registered Users Posts: 1,355
    Glade guard 80 men ,19 (ap) WS , fire arrow
    Waywatcher 60 men , 23(ap) WS

    Seriously CA ?
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,337

    Stephince said:

    Wait to see how they play firsthand.
    Wait to see how skills/techs etc help.
    Wait to see how battlefield synergies might help.
    Wait to see if they are subsequently buffed in a patch.
    Wait and see.

    But..... but MP balance!
    You realize if there's any reason a unit of skirmishers that costs 1200 and has way watcher stats will get buffed IS BECAUSE of MP balance.

    It is seemingly as I feared that CA went the scared route and made sure the WE were a little UP instead of OP. It's hard to balance this kind o faction in the first release.

    Pray to your god's there's a hotfix patch
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,680

    Krunch said:

    now while im no TT veteran i Watched legend of total wars video..


    And you can see that there is no sense bringing them when glade guard have moore men less coin to get etc etc

    Also wild riders, who supposedly have the highest charge in the TT have a charge of 44....... just yeah ok

    Really? Thats a bit pathetic.


    And the 360 degree firing angle is pretty useless since u can just order a glade guard unit to turn? Xd

    But mabey it is subject to change :)

    Although the 44 charge on wild riders make me cry , and any of the lord buff arguments wont work either
    Because all units get that from all other factions as well

    Only thing is if their higher speed makes tje charge good but their speed is not tjat great if you look at the stats
    360 degree means they can use skirmish mode and fire backward while running away. They can also fire while remaining invisible?

    They seem pretty strong to me, though definitely situational. Just don't fire at shielded units.
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  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,337
    They will never be worth it like that because of glade guard and their special ap and fire damage arrows really.

    Also I was expecting a ~100 charge for wild riders, my god I was wrong...

    I actually feel my stomach churning sadly at 40 charge bonus lol.
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • MooncakeMooncake Registered Users Posts: 496
    Seldkam said:

    They will never be worth it like that because of glade guard and their special ap and fire damage arrows really.

    Also I was expecting a ~100 charge for wild riders, my god I was wrong...

    I actually feel my stomach churning sadly at 40 charge bonus lol.

    It really is mind boggling. Maybe they should have whoever balances these units do some reading up on their tt stats?
  • Hari_SeldonHari_Seldon Registered Users Posts: 12
    As far as the Wild Riders Charge value goes - it may be a case of balancing with lord/magic buffs in mind. I think the ord melee buff skill tree has some decent buffs to charge, and some spells can onrease charge significantly.

    Still, I too was disappointed to see that almost every other elite cavalry in game has way better charge value.

    As far as the Waywatchers go, statwise they indeed are worese than I expected, but I'll wait until I see how people use them-maybe someonw will find a way to get their money's worth:)
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,337
    Multi-player doesn't really have the extent of buffs tho...

    To be fair dwarfs got their infantry buffed so they're becoming more and more like the TT but it's still really... yea, mind boggling
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • FoefallerFoefaller Registered Users Posts: 178
    Considering Waywatchers apparently:

    Have 360 firing
    Can fire while moving
    Have AP damage
    Stalk, and
    Remain in Stalk while firing

    I'm not surprised that their actual shooting stats are only marginally better than Glade Guard/Deepwood scouts. If you only use them as traditional missile troops in the way Legends of Total War does in his video, then yeah, I can totally see why you would dump them before the end of your first turn for cheaper Glade Guard who are probably just as effective in that role. To make them worth their cost they'll probably have to be mirco'd quite a bit, which CA has been saying is how the Wood Elves roll.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,337
    That's not the point mate. The point is 2 glade guard kill better and are more cost effective.

    Ap is great on melee units, ranged units as well, but when it's only 60 men firing and it costs 1200!!!!!!!!!!! TO FIELD it's never going to be with it, ever. Hell you could have 2 glade guard with special arrows for 1 way watcher...

    Waywatchers and wild riders weren't done justice. I'm very salty.
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • KhorneFlakesKhorneFlakes Registered Users Posts: 3,373
    sadly thats issue iwth many elite units in the game except few...also i no longer care about mp now,make them amazing now dont even care about balance anymore

    Balance Is A Lie

  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,337
    What?? There are plenty of good elite units, maybe too much time in the chaos roster hey? Lol especially when all of chaos is basically elites...
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • PrayPray Registered Users Posts: 1,355
    deep wood scout shoot 2 missile 37 dmg ,gg Waywatcher


  • KhorneFlakesKhorneFlakes Registered Users Posts: 3,373
    Seldkam said:

    What?? There are plenty of good elite units, maybe too much time in the chaos roster hey? Lol especially when all of chaos is basically elites...

    yeah i am a chaos main so that could be it lol.but what are others..black orcs,dgk,blood knights are the only one i can think of mp wise atleast..??

    Balance Is A Lie

  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,680
    I could see a unit of them flanking around and shooting in the back of a line being pretty usefule, seeing how they can keep doing so while moving and don't have to re ajuste their position to the front.
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