This post and thread is dedicated to giving suggestions and ideas for making the WoC campaign very fun and challenging to play. But mostly fun. They are currently a basic horde faction becoming less and less interesting as the game pushes forward with improvements, DLC, and the trilogy installments. This is the culmination of discussion from my old Warriors of Chaos Overhaul thread with new and improved ideas for the campaign. The devs are very welcome to comment on their thoughts and opinions of this post. Don't worry, your opinion will be regarding as an individual one and not the entirety of CA. I want your input and honest thoughts because they put things into perspective because this is your game. Anything from the difficulty to do it, if you like something, or even if you don't please say it. Could even say you are going to pitch this to the team to implement it
. I know this is a hefty load of work probably. And the elephant in the room is whether the devs want to do this for free, because of the no dlc for dlc policy. No matter how much we want to pay you for doing this for chaos we can't. Not to mention all of the individuals on the team being in agreement is probably rare. But I hope that you consider committing some dev time on the WoC during Game 3 development at least. Warriors of Chaos Campaign
*Spreading Corruption*(More ways to do it=fun)
--Give chaos heroes the ability to manipulate another agent to join their cause.
--Give chaos heroes the ability to manipulate lords and control their army temporarily depending on the skill and level. Limit it to 2 turns (3max) and exempt the AI from having that ability. (An extra layer to this could be enabling of chaos manipulation through a trait that was given by staying in chaos corrupted land for certain time. So you wouldn't be able(or less likely) to manipulate lords and heroes to your cause. The longer you stay in corrupt land the more likely you'll get the trait, and the more susceptible that character is to the whispers of chaos. )
--Give chaos heroes the ability to infiltrate a settlement for X amount of turns. After X amount of turns there will be a new building( maybe a corrupted variation) that replaces a current building in that settlement. This new building will be one that sucks money out of the faction and cause chaos corruption. -1200 gold and +5 corruption. These buildings can cost a chunk of money to get rid of to really affect treasuries and possibly cripple the economy for a while. And your agent might get wounded and fail the mission in the process depending on level and skill.
*Unique Horde Gameplay*
-- Chaos Rifts give +3 corruption to local region and +2 corruption to adjacent regions.
***On 70% corruption and higher, give a post battle option to erect a Chaos Citadel in capital regions only. Limit these Citadels to 3. These citadels provide excellent replenishment in local region, corruption all around that region, small recruitment cost reductions factionwide, and most importantly....keeping your campaign alive(just like the lore aka Brass keep) . If all your horde armies die without a citadel game over. But if you have a chaos citadel then you will have refuge in it, and you won't have to start over. I suggest that these citadels have garrisons, and maybe even upgradable garrisons. But I do want these citadels to be possibly sieged by the AI or the player. It could be a player exclusive thing though, it's up to you. But who doesn't want to siege a chaos citadel?
--More engaging ruinous powers element to the campaign. It's called the Eye of the gods. Very similar to Bretonnia chivalry. But it involves more quests too. "The WoC have to do certain deeds to keep the gods entertained or risk losing divine support. " The affects of the range of high to low dark god support can have rewards and punishments.
-Another chaos stack appears to fight you
-an agent betrays you
-you lose an entire stack because the general turn into a chaos spawn LOL
- infighting attrition
-No infighting attrition
-Upkeep of monsters reduced greatly
-Able to recruit Daemon Princes and daemons
-Recruitment costs reduced
-the ability to mark your troops and turn them into nurgle warriors, slaanesh warriors, or khorne berserkers, or tzeench warroirs
--More pop up events that make you think and choose according to campaign situation. Could be more intriguing lore pop ups
*Difficulty* (mainly for a fun steam rolling check)
-- Random hordes whether beastmen or chaos challenge your power. A horde spawns bent on killing you. This could either happen after you build your first citadel, or randomly. I wouldn't make these armies too powerful though because the End game battle should have the best and toughest units. This could have a 10% chance of happening each turn when you build the citadel. Maybe each citadel increases the chances by 10%. Meaning by the limit I set, which is 3 citadels, that's a 30% chance of being challenged by a start up or traitor horde.
--If your chaos lord loses 2 or 3 battles or retreats from them he will turn into a chaos spawn and the army will be halved by attrition in one turn and you'll have to replace that general. Or your army will continue to take attrition until you replace that general. (Only for regular chaos lords)
***3 more Boss battles with interruption scenes just like the current one. Khorne, Slaanesh, and Nurgle challenge the player.
-- Have the skill boxes that you pay for increase 2 skill points to recruited generals. The main line of tech can offer skill level to the recuited lords , so your late-game lords will be able to jump into the fight much faster.
-- Cooperation with the Dark Elves, Skaven, Ogres, Norsca, or any other neutral or chaos faction.(chaos players might want to team up with them or vassalize them)
--Bonuses to vassalation wages
*Random cool stuff I had quick thoughts about* & *Adjustments and fixes* (yes I said fixes
ok more like annoyances )
---Revoice Archaon. He sounds too crazed robot orcy to me, or a wrestling promo. Archaon should sound like a menacing Dark lord. Hint: Use Narrator from the Chaos trailer or someone who sounds more menacing.
-Victory conditions and/or quest battle cinematic and Archaon recruitment video.
---Chaos Marauders/chaos Warriors variation!--> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/189807/norsca-needs-more-model-variation
--I would like a chaos lord wielding a huge battleaxe. Everyone of them has a sword
--Just like a monster, have Archaon do special kill animations
Attempt at a technical explanation-->
Starting with the new Corruption ideas. Manipulating other agents to join your cause is the most basic one, something that could be easily implemented. It's from other total war games as well, and fitting for a unique chaos agent ability. So there's not much to say there preaching to the choir.
Next, and way more complicated, is the the suggestion of using your chaos agent to take control or manipulate the opposing lord. Resulting in you commanding his army. This would be done the same way you do other agent actions. This was in shogun2 I believe where you could have a chunk of an army double cross to your side. But this can be done more simply, by either having that lord die and replaced with a chaos lord, replaced by that agent, or have that lord be under your command. Essentially either embedding your agent as general, or converting the army to your control. I know an army cannot be without a general. Of course these would need a new event thing saying "This Hero/Lord succumbs to the power of Chaos".
Lastly, the ability to have an agent infiltrate a settlement. Very new to the franchise. New ability simply called Infiltrate. Done the same way you would assault the garrison of a settlement. I'm thinking two things here, either this action be done by click fail or succeed like normally, or this be a case where the infiltrate action has a wait time of X amount of turns, disabling the use of that agent until X turns are done. The success or fail is at the mercy of the normal conditions of agent actions like skill and level which I'll get into briefly. This feature would be very much like the run spy network, but against an enemy settlement that results in your agents death, wounded state, or a vandalization building that replaces one of the buildings in the settlement spreading corruption, bad public order, and having a huge building cost like -1200 or something. This in my head simulates the hero establishing cults.
All these new corruption options can be tied to one skill node. Every chaos agent, or just sorcerers, can have a new skill node named Manipulation with 3 upgrades. Possibly unlocked at level 5.
Now to the Citadel idea. Ok this will definitely require new conditions. The idea of the chaos citadel is that you can only build it on a certain amount of corruption in the region. So the condition or coding would be to add that option on a percentage of corruption of your choosing as a post siege option. Or a settlement occupation option. Another condition is that they are exclusive to main settlement regions, or the capital settlement.
I don't know if this would be a new condition, but it's more a limit, which is Citadels are limited to three. Limited to 3 because of their purpose which I'm going to get into. These citadels are not technically Altdorf or Black Crag, these citadels are Oak of ages. One building chain with maybe 2 or 3 upgrades. You can add whatever traits to these buildings you like, but the main point is to save your campaign. Every chaos player knows that loseing your armies is the end of the game unlike non horde factions. Well these citadels would have a campaign saving trait. Only can you build three, anywhere you want. The accompanying traits I would suggests are to blast the area with corruption, helping with replenishment much like Norsca. As you might know, corruption goes down over time, but these wicked citadels will fix that right up
in the areas you choose to erect a citadel. To note, these citadels being destroyed should not kill the campaign, but it allows for you to lose the campaign once your armies are lost again, just like normal.
(basically all the agent stuff)
Lol thanks for reading. What do you think?
Old overhaul post-->
With the trilogy in the works and under CA's to do list I want to request that CA do an overhaul of the Warriors of Chaos. They are currently a basic horde faction becoming less and less interesting as the game pushes forward with improvements and DLC and potential expansions. The overarching enemy of almost all races, and the main antagonist of Warhammer fantasy should not be over shadowed by future content.
How I want the Warriors of Chaos to be overhauled:The Nation Building Feel
-All of this in this spoiler is now a little irrelevant. But it is the original thoughts and feeling behind what we are looking for.--> They cannot inhabit settlements, they instead roam the map as hordes. Well I would like this to stay the same except for the settlement part. I think chaos should be able to take over settlements and build dread cities or skull keeps. But the catch is that these fortresses can only be built in regions where chaos corruption is at a high percentage (75 and higher). Garrisoned by the WoC roster, but the fluff could say it's built by cultist , daemons and slaves, hints the high corruption needed to build them. They could have a main important citadel far in the wastes, but these minor structures could be built for "replenishment stops, recruitment stations (with access to the global recruitment pool but at local recruitment pricing), or as centers to exploit any regional trade resources." Yes, that's right, trade. Chaos uses resources like everybody else, so they should be able to trade(Look, if you found a way for the Vampires to produce wine, wood and furs so should the Warriors) . Now who they would trade with will most likely be Orges, Dark Elves, Skaven, and any other neutral or chaos influenced faction (Orges are said to trade with chaos because they don't make their own weapons). Make them a horde as much as the green skins are a "horde". But the end goal of chaos would be to dominant everything. So when chaos is done corrupting and conquering wherever, they would most likely have to turn their gaze to untouched lands, or perhaps even their own trade partners for more pillaging and conquering. (With the continued discussion below, a few changes were made, and I highlight the key points of the discussion to overhaul chaos)
Here's the basic consensus https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/189449/main-points-of-woc-overhaul
-Chaos citadels can only be built in provinces of high corruption (75 or higher). This would emphasize the corrupting warping nature of chaos. It would destabilize the enemy province, and highlight the dynamic changes CA implemented with the chaos corruption on the map. In addition to that reasoning, these fortresses are ideally not built by the warriors, but by cultists, slaves, and daemons, hints why the high corruption is needed. Also the reason why the high corruption makes sense is because the armies of chaos need to be raiding, sacking, and pillaging instead of erecting cites or fortresses all over the place like a normal human race would. So there needs to be a corruption check before we get the options to sack, raze, or take over.
-The chaos citadels are exclusive to province capitals. The minor settlements are left to being razed or sacked. Razing the minor settlement would boost the corruption rate of the provincial capital . Sacking would of course bring in loads of money or dark favor.
-The buildings themselves would be only military and technology beneficial. Unlock new units, buildings and technologies, that boost unit strength, replenishment, growth, decrease upkeep etc. These places would not provide any income because the income is reliant on sacking and raiding.
-The WoC can start with a place already, or they can start the same way they start now, with nothing but a small army. But the latter would be so hard and interesting to work with as the player, but the AI would mess it up, so I would make them start with a dreadhold in the northern waste.
-Diplomacy. Well there is none except for cooperation with the Dark Elves, Skaven, Ogres, Norsca, or any other neutral or chaos faction. But remember, with this idea, they can't sit around and have partnerships, they continue to corrupt and fight until everything is broken and destroyed, and the only thing that's left is a world reaping with chaos corruption with dark fortresses towering over the land.
Here are some structures to supplement my idea. These images are to show what CA can do with this idea. Let their economy still be heavily reliant on sacking, raiding and battle loot but give then that sweeping and creeping world domination feel that they deserve!
Small DetailsI hope you find this stuff convincing to do.
- Make the encampment stance a raiding encampment stance. Replenishment and raiding at the same time.
-Archaon should get a trait that makes him immune to infighting attrition because he's the dark god's chosen champion, and the majority of chaos followers revere him. Chaos lords can earn it through leveling up and winning battles. Maybe it can be a trait that is rewarded through cooperative actions.
-Revoice Archaon. He sounds too crazed robot orcy to me, or a wrestling promo. Archaon should sound like a menacing Dark lord. Hint: Use Narrator from the Chaos trailer please (The voice acting is good in this game, but I don't know how the Archaon voice guy got away with such silliness) I know this cost money though.
-Give chaos heroes the ability to manipulate another agent to join their cause
-Give chaos heroes the ability to manipulate lords and control their army temporarily depending on the skill and level. (This could be very overpowered, and frustrating against the AI though)The balance could be a high level hero or a new manipulation skill tree. Limit it to 2 turns (3max) and exempt the AI from having that ability.
-Chaos Marauders/Warriors variation!--> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/189807/norsca-needs-more-model-variation
-Give chaos the option of giving "money' to any faction in exchange for +3 to +10 corruption depending on the amount of money given. 500= +2 corruption 1200= +4 corruption
-Give chaos heroes the ability to infiltrate a settlement for X amount of turns. After X amount of turns there will be a new building that replaces a current building in that settlement. This new building will be one that sucks money out of the faction and cause chaos corruption. -1200 gold and +5 corruption. These buildings can cost a chunk of money to get rid of. And your agent might get wounded and fail the mission in the process depending on level and skill.
-The Eye of the Gods mechanic
The WoC have to do certain deeds to keep the gods entertained or risk losing divine support. (Discussion and Specifics on page 5)
-Chaos ascendancy. From chieftain to chaos lord, all the way to daemon prince. Maybe make an evolution of chaos generals in the campaign.
-Chaos Objective and quests cinamatics(Details on bottom of page 6)
OK everyone, please post your thoughts and ideas about chaos here. If you have ideas please share them and explain. Invite others to post here to air out their WoC issues if they want the Devs to have a look. Thanks for reading.