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Estalia faction speculation discussion

Berg_Of_The_WestBerg_Of_The_West Posts: 522Registered Users
edited March 2017 in General Discussion

I noticed there was still no Estalia faction discussion in the faction directory... So i figured I'd start the speculation off!

Warning... I'm mainly talking out of my @$$... But I find the idea of Estalia to be fascinating! I think the idea of a fantasy late medieval/renaissance Spaniard pike and shot army is awesome. I keep picturing how awesome a pike line would look while holding back waves and waves of orcs, Skaven, and lizard-men. While horse gunners are shooting over heads of the line and melee conquistador cavalry charging with swords and rifles.. kinda like a mounted militia cavalry... that would be a cool hybrid, dual purpose cavalry unit now that i'm thinking of it! :o

With their minimal coverage from Games Workshop... It provides Creative Assembly the opportunity to well... get creative! :p
Who knows... CA could lay the foundation for Estalia and inspire Games Workshop to actually make a table top army of them and would make a profit for both sides!!


Strengths:

* Good cost effective core spear, halberd, pike units
* Decent Navy
* Decent skirmishers (would also like an armored variant of crossbowmen and gunners)
* Good traders (would like to see them get a campaign bonus with coastal trading)
* Decent harassing units (short range/duel purpose) with sword+pistol units and Almogavers

Weaknesses:

* Mediocre offensive frontline infantry
* Mediocre core cavalry choices (however, they have access to The Order of the Righteous Spear and possibly the Knights of the Blazing Sun due to the goddess Myrmidia)

* Rough starting position with internal civil unrest
* Limited Air options (I personally would like it if they didn't have air units)
* Limited montrous units
* Limited magic options



How do you think the army should play?

I picture Estalia playing similar to a Spain renaissance era pike and shot army.
For their faction identity... I think they should have a very formidable and cost effective spear/halberds/pike units.
To exemplify this...I think these units should have access to toggle abilities such as spear wall, and pike wall formations... which makes them cost effective.
Pike units should have an increased unit size of dudes within their unit... In order to make it harder for enemy infantry from just scooting around them easily and completely ignoring them... However, they should have a very low-to-no missile block chance to balance out the increased unit size of pikes. I don't want the same terrible fate that happened to pikes in Rome 2 and Attilla to happen again to pikes in Warhammer. Enemy pikes should be difficult to get around and require you to use your skirmishers to help take care of them by whittling down their numbers . Somewhat similar to pikes in Rome 1.

I picture their melee infantry to mostly consist of musketeer style troops (similar to empire militia) and mediocre conquistador sword infantry. I also picture missionary units that are either agents... or a unit that provided a leadership aura and maybe provide some minor buff/hex spell... kinda like a hybrid between both chaos aspiring champions and sisters of the thorn... however, they would suck in melee and be relatively squishy.
Skirmishers would mainly consist of crossbowmen and gunners. However, they can have armored variants

I like the idea of Estalia having an Inquisitor Hero. I picture their role to be a hybrid between both a witch hunter and warrior priest of Sigmar. Something like a duelist who also has a few mediocre buff/hex spells.



How do you think their campaign should play?

Estalia would kinda be a selfish, neutral faction in the TW:Warhammer world.

Estalia would have a very interesting start position.
They have Skaven and their rivals Tilea on their eastern border. They have Araby across their southern coast. They have their colony Santa Magritta that is under threat at the New World continent of Lustria. And of course... the marauding beastmen that start within their borders!

They would have to make a tough decision to either send resources across the ocean to save their colony... or ward off invading Skaven and Araby from invading their home country!

Their faction bridges the gap between the old world, the new world, and the desert lands of Araby.
Their campaign could be directed towards conquering the new world... while at the same time, having to defend their vulnerable homeland from constant invasions.

Estalia could have an attrition-based campaign in Lustria.
The quest objective could be to capture the Lizard men capital city (I'm not sure which exact one.. I think it's Hexoatl)
Estalia would be suffering from frustrating amounts of attrition while trying to march through the jungles of Lustria and would be under constant threat by raids/ambushes from both lizard men and Skaven... while trying to reach essentially the Lizardmen version of El Dorado.

They would be isolated in a the foreign, strange, and treacherous unknown world of Lustria. They would not have any close allies to call on while in the new world and would be forced to fight off the endless waves on Lizardmen and Skaven on their own!!

P.S.
If you guys think I'm missing anything crucial. I'll edit it into the OP. I would just like to get this thread started an see what cool ideas you guys come up.

Would love to hear your thoughts and opinions on how you think Estalia should be implemented.

Their strengths/weaknesses, How their army should play, potential army units or agents, abilities, campaign mechanics, etc.

Sources:

http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Estalia

https://issuu.com/m4cr1ii3n/docs/warhammer-armies---estalia_20100908_225012


Random cool motivational stuff to set the mood :p






https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIgX3T9Aam5hSQ6CdrXOdPg






Post edited by Berg_Of_The_West on
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Comments

  • Berg_Of_The_WestBerg_Of_The_West Posts: 522Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    Also found this video of some dude who attempted with making a make-shift Estalia-ish army with the Dogs of War faction. :p



    source:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTYb28C0j6QlUAvDWK6cZ2Q
  • Macoa1066Macoa1066 Posts: 341Registered Users
    I will say that I was not particulalry excietd about the Southern Realms. They would've been a nice addition sure, but nothing necessary. However after some research and videos I am pretty excited about the possibility of having them be included in the game!

    PS: That picture of the landship is actually a specific model for Marienburg and not Estalia :)
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  • Lt_HargroveLt_Hargrove Posts: 442Registered Users
    So, I made a compilation of the little we know about Estalia. They are mentioned in a few army books and in some RP books, there is also a leaked map of Estalia from a dedicated RP book that was not finished/not released.

    Possible LLs:

    Juan Franco - grand master of the Order of the Rightheous Spear

    Isabella Giovanni - myrmidian version of Volkmar

    Generals in imperial Spain had the rank Maestre de Campo


    Agents:

    Diestro is a fully fleshed out assasin-type agent. They are graduates of world-famous fencing schools dueling for a living.

    Priestess of Myrmida has rules in WHRP. Her abilities include giving your dudes more armour, giving your dudes more attack and giving your dudes AP magical attacks.

    As far as magic goes, they'd have hireling wizards from Dogs of War list.

    Infantry:
    As all Southern Realms, Estalians for sure have pikemen.

    Estalian sword n' buckler men (or more correctly Rodeleros) are mentioned in different sources numerous times.

    While not said explicitely, northern Estalia is inhabited by "hardy hill people". IDK why, but this just screams ALMOGAVARES at me, as originally many of them were highlanders from Aragón and Cataluńa.

    Skirmishers:
    4th edition has an entry for estalian arquebusers in mercenary tab.

    Cav:
    We have not!Almogavares, we must have not!Jinetes, perhaps in two variants like it was historically - light javelin/bow skirmishers and a medium armoured variant with decent melee stats.

    Generic 900pts knights are warranted

    Knights of the Righteous Spear are a myrdmidian order, like KoTBS, so a heavy shock cav with fire damage.

    As far as arty is concerned, there's no data. I think cannons/mortars are in the range of things they'd have, but nothing too fancy. Maaaaybe something more memefic like Great Bombard.

    Things to note:
    Medieval Spain was populated with many semi-pro militias. The Catholic Kings unified them later into the (in)famous La Santa Hermandad. These bois had acces to light armour, spears and xbows. In the late period pike militias were becoming more and more of a thing.

    Zeal is a moderate price for sanity
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 13,377Registered Users, Moderators
    Take a look at Cataph's Southern Realms mod in the meantime.
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  • Berg_Of_The_WestBerg_Of_The_West Posts: 522Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    Anything about core units that are high tier armored halberd units?

    I found these models and they look like they fit the Estalia theme... with a dash of the Spanish inquisition :p








    Post edited by Berg_Of_The_West on
  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Senior Member Posts: 2,343Registered Users
    Would love to see Estalia added in. I love playing Spanish and Iberian tribes in all the TW games so this would be the closest thing to that in TWW
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  • Berg_Of_The_WestBerg_Of_The_West Posts: 522Registered Users
    I hope they develop Estalia and introduce them out from of nowhere just like this....

  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Posts: 3,957Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    Would love Estalian Conquistadores, a state run inquisition as a faction mechanic, piles, and myrmidian clergy/zealots

    To do this tho i think they'd need to expand the map and add more regions/provinces
  • Berg_Of_The_WestBerg_Of_The_West Posts: 522Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    They do have a colony in the new world. They are also in the middle of Bretonnia and Araby. However, an inquisition is more of a internal affair mechanic... unless you tie in a crusade because of foreign heretics! They also have Skavenblight as a neighbor. You could use inquisitions as a public order mechanic. With the internal squabble within the faction and being surrounded by hostile forces on all side is bound to cause a bunch of public disorder. The inquisition could tie into something along those lines... but i'm just spit balling here. What do you guys have in mind for Estalia game and campaign mechanics?


    Post edited by Berg_Of_The_West on
  • IgorrozasIgorrozas Junior Member Posts: 41Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    Juan Franco? I don't feel very comfortable with that name.
    The faction could be a nice addition, but the core races should hace priority. Maybe as a way to make the wait for Game 2 easier. But I prefer Kislev for that task.
  • obippoobippo Member Posts: 2,252Registered Users
    as an estalian irl having this subfaction would be awesome. actually I didn't know they had minis, thought it was only tilea who had the dogs of war stuff.
    Always be aware when a Content Refusing Troll Brigade (CRTB) representative is near. Contact your local Witch Hunter for further info.


  • Xenos7Xenos7 Posts: 5,114Registered Users
    Man, I wish I was a billionaire so I could fund the development of minor factions DLC all by myself... very sad we won't see such unique units and gameplay...
  • Lt_HargroveLt_Hargrove Posts: 442Registered Users

    Anything about core units that are high tier armored halberd units?

    I found these models and they look like they fit the Estalia theme... with a dash of the Spanish inquisition :p







    I am pretty sure this is a themed Empire army. That dude with two pistols is a Witch Hunter from Mordheim I think.
    Zeal is a moderate price for sanity
  • EnforestEnforest Posts: 2,033Registered Users
    Doesn't Estalia have colonies in the New World? Would be cool to see them as an updated power on both continents.


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  • Xenos7Xenos7 Posts: 5,114Registered Users
    Enforest said:

    Doesn't Estalia have colonies in the New World? Would be cool to see them as an updated power on both continents.

    Pretty much anyone has colonies on the new world, but Estalia is especially involved.
  • TzarKaiserTzarKaiser Yorkshire, UKPosts: 63Registered Users
  • Mohawk_RoshiMohawk_Roshi Posts: 1,763Registered Users
    Estalia would be awesome to see as well as Tilea Kislev and the BP. I used to own a box of Pirazzos lost legion. The minor factions may not offer as much as WE or BM but they've got plenty to offer in terms of adding variety and should definitely be added to the game.
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  • corvocorvo Junior Member SpainPosts: 3,027Registered Users
    Something like this?... :)

    Team Skavens

    image

    "Brother Skavens! Consider this... Until the coming of Vermek Skab, the Council of Thirteen placed me in command of this army"
    - Grey Seer Thanquol, ruthlessly taking command of the Nuln Invasion force
  • natethegreat1112natethegreat1112 Junior Member Posts: 102Registered Users
    Do you guys have a picture of the leaked map of estalia is so i would be very sad because it would all have been scrapped for age of sigmar.
    Fear is wisdom in the face of danger.
  • Lt_HargroveLt_Hargrove Posts: 442Registered Users

    Do you guys have a picture of the leaked map of estalia is so i would be very sad because it would all have been scrapped for age of sigmar.


    Zeal is a moderate price for sanity
  • Berg_Of_The_WestBerg_Of_The_West Posts: 522Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    Found some other cool looking models that kinda fit the Estalia theme.

    Estalian Tercio Pikes (I know this is Pirazzo's lost legion. I'm using them for aesthetic purposes)





    Estalian halberdiers



    Estalian Caballeros





    Estalian Genitors (could be interpreted as the hardy hill people from northern estalia)



    Possible character agent/hero model inspiration







    Estalian outriders







    Estalian cannon crew and Rodeleros



    Post edited by Berg_Of_The_West on
  • Berg_Of_The_WestBerg_Of_The_West Posts: 522Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    I also just remembered that CA already have the Estalia style helmets in the game files somewhere... which makes it that much easier for them to be added :p

    I can dream darn-it!!


    An old teaser picture of the empire helmets





    The newer/current empire style helmets




  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,146Registered Users
    Aren't they just Tileans?
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  • obippoobippo Member Posts: 2,252Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    damn those conquistador helmets were way cooler than current ones, I wonder why they removed them :(
    Always be aware when a Content Refusing Troll Brigade (CRTB) representative is near. Contact your local Witch Hunter for further info.


  • SetrusSetrus Senior Member SwedenPosts: 18,452Registered Users
    obippo said:

    damn those conquistador helmets were way cooler than current ones, I wonder why they removed them :(

    Because before launch there was an uproar among fans because they were so frequent in the Empire army that don't usually use that kind of helmet.
    Don't worry.
  • obippoobippo Member Posts: 2,252Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    Hmmmm I totally missed that uproar to be honest... but I see that the style of the helmets don't really meet the intended fantasy-HRE style. They're soo cool though. Hope they can recicle them for estalia if it gewts released at some point
    Always be aware when a Content Refusing Troll Brigade (CRTB) representative is near. Contact your local Witch Hunter for further info.


  • Berg_Of_The_WestBerg_Of_The_West Posts: 522Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    ALMOGAVARES

    I agree with you Lt_Hargrove... Almogavares do sound like they fit the description for the northern Estalians "hardy hill people"... essentially Spanish highlanders!!

    They sound like a light javelin skirmisher/ambush unit with a big charge.
    They sound like they would function somewhat similar to the Kislev Kossars... but would sacrifice range for harder hitting missile damage.
    Plus... they have awesome looking cage helmets with bandannas!

    Personally... i would like them to function as guerrilla deployment skirmisher/shock troops. I'd like them to have somewhere between 5-10 javelins they could toss at their opponents to whittle them down before they charge in. kinda like how the Lusitani faction Iberian infantry worked in Total War: Rome 2


    How they are descibed in wikipedia...

    Description[edit]
    They were characterized as being infantry shock troops that fought on foot, with light arms and baggage, generally with a pair of short spears (azconas), a long knife (coltell) and sometimes a small round shield as the only defense. They had full beards and dressed poorly, only in a short gown (both in summer and winter); they wore a thick leather belt and leather sandals. In addition, they always used to carry a good piece of flint with them that they struck their weapons with before going into battle, which gave off enormous sparks, which, together with their terrible cries, terrorized their enemies. Endowed with great valor and ferocity, those from the Crown of Aragon entered into combat to the cry of "Rise Iron! Let's kill, let's kill", "for Saint George!" and "Aragon! Aragon!"


    Tactics[edit]
    Their mission consisted of exploring the land where the army was advancing, standing at forefront and flanks, harassing the enemy, attacking their garrisons by surprise and intercepting their convoys. They preferred to fight in open order, but if they were in trouble they could form a compact mass to fight off repeated cavalry charges, as happened against the Moors in Alcoll.[21]

    Almogavars acted as infantry and could act in collaboration with the cavalry, but unlike other medieval infantry troops they did not require the support of them. In the mercenary companies, besides Almogavars, there were units of "knights, infantry, archers, scudars, and men guarding the weapons of galleys ", each one with a specific mission and that could be coordinated in the battlefield. They always retained their autonomy and were a permanent militia, because their modus vivendi consisted of making raids in enemy border territory.[22] For this reason, they always carried light arms in order to move swiftly during the raids. These could easily last 2 or 3 days before getting to villages with decent booty.[23] For this reason, their long marches proved their ability to endurance, speed and frugality.

    In the Europe of those times armoured heavy cavalry was the dominant shock force, so their tactics proved to be an innovation. The Almogavars were uncomfortable riding, and always fought afoot.[24] The first thing they did was throw their spears at the knights, piercing through their armor and shields from a distance, but especially fatally wounding the horses. They also got into the enemy formation to cut the hocks of the animals with their knives, or impaled them with spears. In the melee they did not hesitate to use their short swords or maces to disembowel horses, and when the agonized mounts collapsed they rushed at the horsemen with their knives to kill them.

    source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almogavars














    What about you guys? What are your suggestions? What do you have in mind?
    Post edited by Berg_Of_The_West on
  • Berg_Of_The_WestBerg_Of_The_West Posts: 522Registered Users
    edited January 2017
    More cool looking models I found that fit the Estalia theme.

    Estalian Tercio Pikes... just change colors to Estalia design (note: I really like the banner pike logo design. Its simple, yet effective. That design would work beautifully for the banner logo in TW:WH)



    Random assortment of swordsmen/conquistadors, halberds, pikes, hand gunners, crossbowmen, etc












    Possible model for Juan Federico...El Lider Glorioso, Grand Master of the Order of the Righteous Spear.
    possible LL for Estalia.... just ignore the Averland part ;)



    If you guys can be on the lookout for a model that would work for...

    Isabella Giovanna Luccelli... La Aguila, Ulitima, Head of the Order of the Eagle...

    That would be awesome!

    She is the leader of the church of Myrmidia... you know... the goddess the Knights of the Blazing Sun worship.
    She seems like she would function similar as Volkmar the grim... except for a different religion.
    She is a potential LL for Estalia and I'm trying to find a cool looking model that could potentially suit her.
    Post edited by Berg_Of_The_West on
  • obippoobippo Member Posts: 2,252Registered Users
    Ah, pikes... would be nice to have dem pikes and phalanx formations again, I miss them ;(
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  • thebiglezthebiglez Posts: 579Registered Users
    but its way cheaper adding Kislev, Estalia and Tilea than making new factions like Skaven.. so i honestly dont know why they wouldnt add them? maybe licesing reasons?
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