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Forts should significantly reduce upkeep as well. There's always a lot of sitting around waiting for replenishment which means the favor you gained from sacking is used up on the long trip (because of half-moves into encampment every turn) to the next stackable city.
Forts should significantly reduce upkeep as well. There's always a lot of sitting around waiting for replenishment which means the favor you gained from sacking is used up on the long trip (because of half-moves into encampment every turn) to the next stackable city.
There are viable solutions to that.
1. Make the encampment stance a raiding encampment stance. Replenishment and raiding at the same time. 2. Boost the tech. bonuses to post battle loot and sacking significantly. 3. Have more upkeep reduction and cost reduction buildings and tech. bonuses.
Forts should significantly reduce upkeep as well. There's always a lot of sitting around waiting for replenishment which means the favor you gained from sacking is used up on the long trip (because of half-moves into encampment every turn) to the next stackable city.
There are viable solutions to that.
1. Make the encampment stance a raiding encampment stance. Replenishment and raiding at the same time. 2. Boost the tech. bonuses to post battle loot and sacking significantly. 3. Have more upkeep reduction and cost reduction buildings and tech. bonuses.
The leveling tiers to the overall fortress should include upkeep reduction for all the armies basically.
Legendary Castles (in Chaos Wastes) They are already on the map and can be conquered by Chaos Player (or looted/razed by any other race) and provide Campaign Boni
Chaos Shrines (in Capitals) To differentiate Chaos from Wood Elves Chaos can´t build outposts everywhere but can defile Race capitals like Altdorf, Middenheim, Drakenhof, Karak Eight Peaks... These Chaos Shrines don´t have walls but a garnison and provide Boni/Replenishment for armies.
Chaos Raider Camp Hordes can built a minor settlement anywhere on the map. The Camp counts as a Horde (meaning that every Camp/Horde has an increased population cost to built) These camps can have fortification/garnison upgrades like be minor settlements.
I have some reservations in making Norsca playable as it is. So far every minor faction has the same army rooster like its big brother (with some minor difficulties). Norsca currently is Chaos Light (no Chaos Warriors, but settlements) Propably we´ll see an overhaul of Norsca when Dark Elves are introduced (together with the introduction of sea battles) Legendary Lords could be Scyla Anfingrimm Wulfrik The Wanderer .....?
Chaos could have a faction specific resource: Dark favour ( which is now in for renaming gold).
This would be gained through an after battle option , called "sacrifice"(the prisoners/ heads)( should boost DF significantly)
This should be viable for a bar for a horde, that would give ot boosts to stats , give abilities or increase WoM ( the upgrades could be randomly , although you could navigate into the rough direction by maybe using extremly more magic or slaughtering all prisoners more often etc)
Also you should be punished hard for not building up DF or even neglect your already gotten one, resulting in attrition /stat decrease or even turing the general into a chaos spawn , or a certain unit.
You should also be able to get dark favour by building altar-buildings, which would cost upkeep and by maybe a worship stance ?
The stacks of the three LL should be immune to most of the bad effects , cause they still will have the gods favour, exspecially Archaon
Are you saying the current encamp stance is adequate and the extra temporary buildings I suggested are unnecessary?
Edit: @doclumbago I kinda like your Chaos Shrine/Raider camp outline. Although different from from how I would do it, that wpild be pretty cool too.
I'm just thinking the bigger the changes the less likely they are. Probably we will have to wait for game three before we see Chaos fortresses, if at all.
I guess a new freelc lord that builds is a possibility, but it just doesnt feel likely.
I actually think it's a terrible idea. A horde not actively sacking enemy settlements is a horde that's costing you a ridiculous amount in upkeep. 5 midtier armies with some good units will put you in the negatives by 10k a turn. You simply cannot afford to have one army not moving around and sacking the map clean.
And the Horde-City doesnt have to be a full stack.
I imagine it having just a handfull of troops at any one time with 2 or 3.other hordes orbiting it raiding and razing and coming back to drop off decimated units and pick up freshly trained ones.
I think if you have 3-4 other active hordes they could support one with barely any troops. Also it would have fortifications and maybe a garrison so it would be less vulnerable.
I agree the ideas others have put up with actual settlements would be preferable.
The main merit to my idea is just that it would be a less major change to the faction, so I thought maybe that makes it a bit more viable.
@Mercii Oh ok. Yeah I don't like that. I think an overhaul is needed before the trilogy is done. People say the current chaos system is place holder. I can only hope. I do think this overhaul works almost perfectly though. With the help of others in the discussion we have a cool thing CA can do anytime.
@ doclumbago I think making Norsca playable is the thing that provides the most options to make WoC more interesting. As I said in a previous post, implementing a system where you as a Norscan tribe get rewarded by the/a Chaos God/s for things like winning battles in their name (could come with a quest system) would be very nice imo. The rewards could be anything from favor (currency) to access to more chaotic units or even some DoC units under your control (once that is possible).
My main hope is that when the 4 chaos gods are released those factions will be of a completely different design and will allow building fortresses.
I don't know if there is much hope of them making such drastic changes to the existing faction, not to lessen anyones ideas, I quite like a lot of the stuff mentioned here.
Maybe this will help CA design the Chaos factions to come
Maybe this will help CA design the Chaos factions to come
I hope so.
Going to update this quite a bit. Found some building types on warhmmer wiki.
Tower of Blood Whether through artifice, fell sorcery or blood sacrifice, this tower oozes pulsing gore, inspiring those within to ever greater heights of violence and slaughter. http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Tower_of_Blood
Chaos Monoliths great monuments to individual champions of Chaos, and are also sometimes used as places of worship to the Dark Powers. They are usually erected by the members of that champion's warband, or by the members of his tribe after the champion's ascending to daemonhood. Monoliths can be found anywhere, even within the borders of the Empire, though this is rare. Most however are concentrated in Norsca and the Chaos Wastes. http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Chaos_Monoliths
Brass Keep An imperial fortress located deep within the mountains which recently fell into the hands of Chaos warriors. Since then this fortress has been home to a multitude of Chaos Warlords seeking shelter from Imperial retribution. http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Middle_Mountains
I will throw my support behind this. The horde mechanics are very bad in my opinion and it leads me to not want to play the factions that use them. The idea beastmen can build buildings they carry with them but don't build buildings in the forest is just silly to me. Horde factions are not fun and don't give me any sense of progression. They spend excessively long times next turning to replenish. You're stuck with one good army. You always have infighting and 18 different kinds of attrition to suffer. It is not fun. They are some of my favorite factions from the board game but I refuse to play them in tw:warhammer.
Chaos with a home base in the north and outposts sound QUITE compelling to me. I think the beastmen should be the same except a forest square that can't be inhabited by anyone other than beastmen. Also make it hidden unless you're standing on top of it. If the beastmen cities are destroyed, the faction should convert to a horde again so you can resettle if needed. You can't get rid of them easily and they are all over the place.
I get your point. Playing the Horde is tricky, cause you are forced to constantly move deeper into enemy territory and are likely to stumble upon several stacks of armies. I tried to have one General-only army up in the north as a save point so to speak. But that is eating up your income.
But I just finished a Chaos campaign today, that was so laughably easy, almost feels like a cheat:
1. Spend your entire campaign on fighting Norsca / Awakening tribes. Stay in the Chaos wastes ! 2. Move west constantly 3. Once Sarthorael is announced move through Bretonnia (no match for high level Chaos), but don´t start anything with Wood Elves 4. Now Sarthorael has to move through the entire Empire domains, and he can´t himself -he will get himself into trouble. Wait for him on the Estalian border, he will look like a plucked chicken. 5.Kill what´s left of him then clean up Empire.
Adds to the wishlist
I think the Orkish raiding camp stance is a good idea, hereby seconded The idea of having raiding camp fortifications is also cool.
Also: the option to dedicate your Horde to a Chaos God with a set of boni/handicaps like Khorne: No magic but increased magic resistance + melee attack
I think the Orkish raiding camp stance is a good idea, hereby seconded The idea of having raiding camp fortifications is also cool.
Also: the option to dedicate your Horde to a Chaos God with a set of boni/handicaps like Khorne: No magic but increased magic resistance + melee attack
You know what guys, I realize we may have given away the implementation of Chaos Dwarfs. But that's alright. I still want the WoC to get some special attention by the end.
CA please consider the small details section of the OP though.
You know what guys, I realize we may have given away the implementation of Chaos Dwarfs. But that's alright. I still want the WoC to get some special attention by the end.
CA please consider the small details section of the OP though. I'll be updating it with more of my ideas and other thoughts I like from the forums for the WoC.
Screw Chaos dwarves. What did they ever do for us? All we got were purple goo speakers with homing projectiles that STILL can't hit anything by themselves.
You know what guys, I realize we may have given away the implementation of Chaos Dwarfs. But that's alright. I still want the WoC to get some special attention by the end.
CA please consider the small details section of the OP though. I'll be updating it with more of my ideas and other thoughts I like from the forums for the WoC.
The chaos dwarfs don't rely on pillaging though. They are much like the normal dwarfs. Except the very evil version. It's pretty simple those guys. Maybe they would have a slave resource and industry buildings. I'm in favor of warriors of chaos getting this idea instead of the chaos dwarfs.
Also, to add to the lists, chaos marauders need to be a little stronger. Their models look tough but they drop like flies and they don't hit as hard as they look.
You know what guys, I realize we may have given away the implementation of Chaos Dwarfs. But that's alright. I still want the WoC to get some special attention by the end.
CA please consider the small details section of the OP though. I'll be updating it with more of my ideas and other thoughts I like from the forums for the WoC.
Also, to add to the lists, chaos marauders need to be a little stronger. Their models look tough but they drop like flies and they don't hit as hard as they look.
Wait until the 3rd game. I'm hoping we can use the mark of chaos to change our chaos units in to whatever god unit we please. The mark of Khorne will turn some champions and units into THIS
Chaos could have a faction specific resource: Dark favour ( which is now in for renaming gold).
This would be gained through an after battle option , called "sacrifice"(the prisoners/ heads)( should boost DF significantly)
This should be viable for a bar for a horde, that would give ot boosts to stats , give abilities or increase WoM ( the upgrades could be randomly , although you could navigate into the rough direction by maybe using extremly more magic or slaughtering all prisoners more often etc)
Also you should be punished hard for not building up DF or even neglect your already gotten one, resulting in attrition /stat decrease or even turing the general into a chaos spawn , or a certain unit.
You should also be able to get dark favour by building altar-buildings, which would cost upkeep and by maybe a worship stance ?
The stacks of the three LL should be immune to most of the bad effects , cause they still will have the gods favour, exspecially Archaon
But this would make them desperate for money and dark favor. Sacking or Sacrifice would become such a hard choice, and either one will severely punish you. You will be lacking in money or lacking in Dark favor. That's sounds tough to manage, but it may be fun though. But unfortunately it would cripple the AI. WoC don't need anymore handy caps.
Screw Chaos dwarves. What did they ever do for us? All we got were purple goo speakers with homing projectiles that STILL can't hit anything by themselves.
How can ANYONE not want this ?
Also Chaos Warriors should be able to spawn daemons on the battlefield via sacrifice or a Summon skill And I want Slann/Khorn/Tzaan/Pestigors for Beastmen
The last thing anyone wants is AoS units. Just give me some demons and buff the chaos faction properly for once and I'll be happy on the battlefield if not the trashy campaign.
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0 · Like1. Make the encampment stance a raiding encampment stance. Replenishment and raiding at the same time.
2. Boost the tech. bonuses to post battle loot and sacking significantly.
3. Have more upkeep reduction and cost reduction buildings and tech. bonuses.
WARRIORS OF CHAOS OVERHAUL---> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/189182/warriors-of-chaos-overhaul/p1?new=1
THE CONCEPT OF THE MARKS OF CHAOS--> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/197095/the-concept-of-the-marks-of-chaos/p1
LETS TALK CATHEY, ARABY, AND NIPPON--> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/190542/lets-talk-cathey-araby-and-nippon/p1
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0 · Like1. Fortifications
2. Local resource exploiters
A hord can build these while encamped, and they are cheap in terms of growth, but are destroyed if the horde moves.
This way you can basically have hordes permanently camp and become pseudo fortress/cities.
That way you can have the advantages of making territory meaningful without changing the essential 'horde' system.
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0 · LikeLegendary Castles (in Chaos Wastes)
They are already on the map and can be conquered by Chaos Player (or looted/razed by any other race)
and provide Campaign Boni
Brass Citadel
Drifting Castle
Inevitable City
That´s what I found, I´m sure there are more..
Chaos Shrines (in Capitals)
To differentiate Chaos from Wood Elves Chaos can´t build outposts everywhere but can defile Race capitals like Altdorf, Middenheim, Drakenhof, Karak Eight Peaks... These Chaos Shrines don´t have walls but a garnison and provide Boni/Replenishment for armies.
Chaos Raider Camp
Hordes can built a minor settlement anywhere on the map.
The Camp counts as a Horde (meaning that every Camp/Horde has an increased population cost to built)
These camps can have fortification/garnison upgrades like be minor settlements.
I have some reservations in making Norsca playable as it is. So far every minor faction has the same army rooster like its big brother (with some minor difficulties).
Norsca currently is Chaos Light (no Chaos Warriors, but settlements)
Propably we´ll see an overhaul of Norsca when Dark Elves are introduced
(together with the introduction of sea battles)
Legendary Lords could be
Scyla Anfingrimm
Wulfrik The Wanderer
.....?
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0 · LikeThis would be gained through an after battle option , called "sacrifice"(the prisoners/ heads)( should boost DF significantly)
This should be viable for a bar for a horde, that would give ot boosts to stats , give abilities or increase WoM ( the upgrades could be randomly , although you could navigate into the rough direction by maybe using extremly more magic or slaughtering all prisoners more often etc)
Also you should be punished hard for not building up DF or even neglect your already gotten one, resulting in attrition /stat decrease or even turing the general into a chaos spawn , or a certain unit.
You should also be able to get dark favour by building altar-buildings, which would cost upkeep and by maybe a worship stance ?
The stacks of the three LL should be immune to most of the bad effects , cause they still will have the gods favour, exspecially Archaon
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3 · 3LikeWARRIORS OF CHAOS OVERHAUL---> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/189182/warriors-of-chaos-overhaul/p1?new=1
THE CONCEPT OF THE MARKS OF CHAOS--> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/197095/the-concept-of-the-marks-of-chaos/p1
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0 · LikeAre you saying the current encamp stance is adequate and the extra temporary buildings I suggested are unnecessary?
Edit: @doclumbago I kinda like your Chaos Shrine/Raider camp outline. Although different from from how I would do it, that wpild be pretty cool too.
I'm just thinking the bigger the changes the less likely they are. Probably we will have to wait for game three before we see Chaos fortresses, if at all.
I guess a new freelc lord that builds is a possibility, but it just doesnt feel likely.
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0 · LikeWARRIORS OF CHAOS OVERHAUL---> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/189182/warriors-of-chaos-overhaul/p1?new=1
THE CONCEPT OF THE MARKS OF CHAOS--> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/197095/the-concept-of-the-marks-of-chaos/p1
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0 · LikeAnd the Horde-City doesnt have to be a full stack.
I imagine it having just a handfull of troops at any one time with 2 or 3.other hordes orbiting it raiding and razing and coming back to drop off decimated units and pick up freshly trained ones.
I think if you have 3-4 other active hordes they could support one with barely any troops. Also it would have fortifications and maybe a garrison so it would be less vulnerable.
I agree the ideas others have put up with actual settlements would be preferable.
The main merit to my idea is just that it would be a less major change to the faction, so I thought maybe that makes it a bit more viable.
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0 · LikeOh ok. Yeah I don't like that. I think an overhaul is needed before the trilogy is done. People say the current chaos system is place holder. I can only hope. I do think this overhaul works almost perfectly though. With the help of others in the discussion we have a cool thing CA can do anytime.
WARRIORS OF CHAOS OVERHAUL---> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/189182/warriors-of-chaos-overhaul/p1?new=1
THE CONCEPT OF THE MARKS OF CHAOS--> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/197095/the-concept-of-the-marks-of-chaos/p1
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0 · LikeI don't know if there is much hope of them making such drastic changes to the existing faction, not to lessen anyones ideas, I quite like a lot of the stuff mentioned here.
Maybe this will help CA design the Chaos factions to come
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0 · LikeGoing to update this quite a bit.
Found some building types on warhmmer wiki.
Tower of Blood
Whether through artifice, fell sorcery or blood sacrifice, this tower oozes pulsing gore, inspiring those within to ever greater heights of violence and slaughter.
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Tower_of_Blood
Chaos Monoliths
great monuments to individual champions of Chaos, and are also sometimes used as places of worship to the Dark Powers. They are usually erected by the members of that champion's warband, or by the members of his tribe after the champion's ascending to daemonhood. Monoliths can be found anywhere, even within the borders of the Empire, though this is rare. Most however are concentrated in Norsca and the Chaos Wastes.
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Chaos_Monoliths
Brass Keep
An imperial fortress located deep within the mountains which recently fell into the hands of Chaos warriors. Since then this fortress has been home to a multitude of Chaos Warlords seeking shelter from Imperial retribution.
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Middle_Mountains
WARRIORS OF CHAOS OVERHAUL---> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/189182/warriors-of-chaos-overhaul/p1?new=1
THE CONCEPT OF THE MARKS OF CHAOS--> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/197095/the-concept-of-the-marks-of-chaos/p1
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1 · 1LikeChaos with a home base in the north and outposts sound QUITE compelling to me. I think the beastmen should be the same except a forest square that can't be inhabited by anyone other than beastmen. Also make it hidden unless you're standing on top of it. If the beastmen cities are destroyed, the faction should convert to a horde again so you can resettle if needed. You can't get rid of them easily and they are all over the place.
Anything would be better than what they have now.
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0 · LikePlaying the Horde is tricky, cause you are forced to constantly move deeper into enemy territory
and are likely to stumble upon several stacks of armies.
I tried to have one General-only army up in the north as a save point so to speak.
But that is eating up your income.
But I just finished a Chaos campaign today, that was so laughably easy, almost feels like a cheat:
1. Spend your entire campaign on fighting Norsca / Awakening tribes. Stay in the Chaos wastes !
2. Move west constantly
3. Once Sarthorael is announced move through Bretonnia (no match for high level Chaos),
but don´t start anything with Wood Elves
4. Now Sarthorael has to move through the entire Empire domains, and he can´t himself
-he will get himself into trouble. Wait for him on the Estalian border, he will look like a plucked chicken.
5.Kill what´s left of him then clean up Empire.
Adds to the wishlist
I think the Orkish raiding camp stance is a good idea, hereby seconded
The idea of having raiding camp fortifications is also cool.
Also: the option to dedicate your Horde to a Chaos God with a set of boni/handicaps
like Khorne: No magic but increased magic resistance + melee attack
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1 · 1LikeWARRIORS OF CHAOS OVERHAUL---> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/189182/warriors-of-chaos-overhaul/p1?new=1
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2 · 2LikeBut that's alright. I still want the WoC to get some special attention by the end.
CA please consider the small details section of the OP though.
WARRIORS OF CHAOS OVERHAUL---> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/189182/warriors-of-chaos-overhaul/p1?new=1
THE CONCEPT OF THE MARKS OF CHAOS--> https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/197095/the-concept-of-the-marks-of-chaos/p1
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2 · 2LikeI'm in favor of warriors of chaos getting this idea instead of the chaos dwarfs.
Also, to add to the lists, chaos marauders need to be a little stronger. Their models look tough but they drop like flies and they don't hit as hard as they look.
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0 · LikeAlso Chaos Warriors should be able to spawn daemons on the battlefield via sacrifice or a Summon skill
And I want Slann/Khorn/Tzaan/Pestigors for Beastmen
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