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Why can't People make lord of the rings mod

Warboss2001Warboss2001 Registered Users Posts: 664
Don't games workshop have rights to lord of the rings because they have the models and also the hobbit models


On a side note would anyone here buy a lord of the rings total war
I am the best Warboss there is WAAAGH
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Comments

  • GunKingGunKing Registered Users Posts: 618
    GW has the rights to make miniatures and rules around them, that's not the same as having carte blanche to do other things with the franchise.

    There's a whole legal soup of **** surrounding making a LOTR mod with a GW licensed product, who are known to be very protective of their franchises. It could be taken many ways by many different parties, so the safest route is just to block them outright.

    I'd probably buy a LOTR TW. Best be set across the ages though, the Third Age doesn't have a whole lot of magic or fantastical things going down. Speaking of which, it would need a completely different magic system. Tolkien's magic was not as 'cause-and-effect' as most modern fantasy, it was a more subtle and strange thing.

  • SetrusSetrus Senior Member SwedenRegistered Users Posts: 18,537
    They got a license to make the lord of the rings model game, yes, that doesn't mean they have a constant license for it. Nor does it mean that they're allowed to "extend" that license to CA.
    Also, they're protective of their IP, and while I'm not sure about the exact reason why, they allowed CA to allow modding with the condition that mods don't go away from that IP.

    Please don't break that condition. :sweat:
    Don't worry.
  • FrontlinerDeltaFrontlinerDelta Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,549
    edited April 2017
    Setrus beat me to it, but yea. Part of the "deal" to allow mods for Warhammer was that there can be nothing to make this "not Warhammer".

    Originally, and for quite a long time before release, the plan was no mods. Full stop. CA doesn't completely own this Total War like they do the others, it's partially owned by Games Workshop. So gotta deal with them and they managed to convince GW to allow mods thankfully (I can't imagine not having mods, I don't use a ton but the ones I do, I love them).

    If you do want a fun LotR RTS, if you can find a copy of the Battle For Middle Earth 2, it's quite fun and has larger than average armies for an older RTS. I still have my boxed copies and still play it on occassion, was quite good.

    I don't know if I would buy a LotR TW. If I did, it'd be more because I like Total War than the LotR aspect. LotR also after Warhammer would just feel a tad tame to me I think. Maybe it's more serious and less outlandish but I love the huge diversity of Warhammer.

    And just to throw this out there; I like Game of Thrones but a TW based around GoT would be silly. It'd be an odd mashup of Medieval for a few factions, one faction would get 3 dragons, and then another would just be undead copied over from Warhammer and given an ice theme. :tongue:

    I just bring that up because these topics inevitably bring up LotR and GoT.
  • Warboss2001Warboss2001 Registered Users Posts: 664
    edited April 2017
    @FrontlinerDelta oh ok thanks and yes I love that game it is amazing I've been trying to find the rise of the witch king expansion but no luck :'(
    I am the best Warboss there is WAAAGH
  • Warboss2001Warboss2001 Registered Users Posts: 664
    Yeah got tw would be quite funny with the mish mash of different things lol
    I am the best Warboss there is WAAAGH
  • englisharcher89englisharcher89 Senior Member Bath, UKRegistered Users Posts: 4,130
    edited April 2017
    Why are people so obsessed with LoTR based only on movie, this is why I start hating popular things.

    Everything is compared to LoTR, " Yeah play TW WH it's like LOTR !" No it's not.

    As much as I love Tolkien's work and books I despise things that become too popular like movies or series. They become victim of popculture.

    That said it comes from man who finished all books three times, once Silmarilion, in two languages. I watched trilogy many times in the past, that's also reason why I switched to WH it was less known to people, and still is.

    On side note I'm excited for Shadow of War, that kind of spin off I understand, sometging fresh and new.
    Vampire Counts
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  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    Isn't the only reason modders can't dip into others fast world's the fact that GW sees everything else as a competitor?

    Also... **** GW.
  • Warboss2001Warboss2001 Registered Users Posts: 664
    edited April 2017
    I'm not saying that it's like lord of the rings I just wanted to know why they couldn't mod it to be like it because they had miniatures of it that's all

    @englisharcher89 And if warhammer got to popular would you hate it just a question I don't mean to be rude
    I am the best Warboss there is WAAAGH
  • Nyanko73Nyanko73 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,351
    Lord of the rings mod would be boring. Only two sides....

    Team Yennefer

    "A blinding flash materialised into a transparent sphere, and inside it loomed a shape, assuming contours and shapes at frightening speed. Dandelion recognised it at once. He knew those wild, black curls and the obsidian star on a velvet ribbon. What he didn’t know and had never seen before was the face. It was a face of rage and fury, the face of the goddess of vengeance, destruction and death." - Time of contempt
  • englisharcher89englisharcher89 Senior Member Bath, UKRegistered Users Posts: 4,130

    Isn't the only reason modders can't dip into others fast world's the fact that GW sees everything else as a competitor?

    Also... **** GW.

    License that is very expensive and hard to obtain apparently. Devs behind Shadow of War hold it currently it seems.

    Not sure if EA is still owning it, but they did good job in the past.
    Vampire Counts
    Tomb Kings
    The Empire

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
  • englisharcher89englisharcher89 Senior Member Bath, UKRegistered Users Posts: 4,130
    Nyanko73 said:

    Lord of the rings mod would be boring. Only two sides....

    Not really two sides there is a lot of it, it's just not as diverse as WH. Majority is humans, elves and dwarves, with lack of any technology, they used magic in BFME 2 for gameplay reason. WH magic is much more powerful and interesting, there is religion (comes from atheist lol) which makes it even more interesting.

    Vampire Counts
    Tomb Kings
    The Empire

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death." - Vlad von Carstein
  • DreadedNorwegianDreadedNorwegian Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,177
    edited April 2017
    I would instantly buy a lotr game made by CA!

    But getting the liscense to make a lotr game is no piece of cake.
    Enig og tro til Dovre faller!
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 11,865

    Why are people so obsessed with LoTR based only on movie, this is why I start hating popular things.

    Everything is compared to LoTR, "Yeah play TW WH it's like LOTR !" No it's not.

    As much as I love Tolkien's work and books I despise things that become too popular like movies or series. They become victim of popculture.

    That said it comes from man who finished all books three times, once Silmarillion, in two languages. I watched trilogy many times in the past, that's also reason why I switched to WH it was less known to people, and still is.

    To be fair Warhammer Fantasy is quite heavily based on the Lord of the Rings, as well as on the Greek Mythology and those things are big part of what Make Warhammer Fantasy Great, unlike Age of Sigmarines. But in the end of the day Warhammer Fantasy had added much Content on top of Lord of the Rings Content, so there are more Fantasy Races and more Magic and so on. So I am too don't understand why Lord of the Rings Fans are to eager to see an Lord of the Rings Official Total War or More Lord of the Rings Mods. Even though I still like Lord of the Rings as well, and I known Lord of the Rings before Warhammer Fantasy. An Lord of the Rings Total War Game is basically almost the same as Warhammer Fantasy Total War Game, only with Less Content, for the most part, especially when it's comes to Sandbox Game, and not to Story Focused Game.
  • PaulHPaulH Registered Users Posts: 1,387
    Go play Third Age Total War.
  • NihilemNihilem Registered Users Posts: 37
    Well the reason why CA does not make a LotR: Total War is probably due to License problems etc. The reason why we as modding community can not make a LotR: Total War mod is because the necessary tools (custom models) are missing. When I understand it correctly the reason why we dont have them (in contrast to rome2 e.g. which have this tolls) is because Games Workshop do not want custom models in the game. Because reasons. Some speculate that this will result in people making a Age of Sigmar Total War, which GW wants to sell seperatly....... which I dont think will work good because I do not see Age of Sigmar as Total War material (how should the Campaign Map should look like for example?), which is a shame because the have some nice models (not sigmares ... te other ones)
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,578
    Nihilem said:

    Well the reason why CA does not make a LotR: Total War is probably due to License problems etc.

    iirc one of em said that he would really like to make a ME TW... but the License is expensive as crap
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

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  • Warboss2001Warboss2001 Registered Users Posts: 664
    @Nihilem like iron jaws they are awesome
    I am the best Warboss there is WAAAGH
  • Warboss2001Warboss2001 Registered Users Posts: 664
    @TheGuardianOfMetal license is expensive but profit could be huge if done right
    I am the best Warboss there is WAAAGH
  • GoslingGosling Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,887


    That said it comes from man who finished all books three times, once Silmarilion, in two languages. I watched trilogy many times in the past, that's also reason why I switched to WH it was less known to people, and still is.

    .

    Only three times? Pfff :D
    "I'm gonna stomp 'em to dust. I'm gonna grind their bones. I'm gonna burn down dere towns and cities. I'm gonna pile 'em up inna big fire and roast 'em. I'm gonna bash heads, break faces, and jump up and down on the bits that are left.


    An' den I'm gonna get really mean."

    Grimgor Ironhide, Black Orc Warboss.
  • EmarthEmarth Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 401
    edited April 2017
    I want Lord of the Rings for the same reason I want historical total wars "But there aren't any monsters and magic in historical TW" no when did that ever become a criteria for a good TW game?

    We know LotR would be awesome in a TW form. The most popular mod for Med 2, our most modded game was a conversion called third age, turning the map and units to Middle Earth and it was really good. I think Warhammer was a perfect candidate for a TW, and it was a good game. But I like the world and people of LotR a lot more. It feels a lot more authentic and real to me.
  • Warboss2001Warboss2001 Registered Users Posts: 664
    @Emarth yes very true also in Lotr there would be formations for units I mean look how disciplined the gundabad orcs and urakhai are
    and like you said it's a more realistic setting
    I am the best Warboss there is WAAAGH
  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,419
    Licensing problem is just one factor; CA would have to also know with reasonable estimate that they'd make good money out of it...and then try to talk SEGA into funding such a project.
    That is also on top of maintaining their current projects, they're apparently having a separate team working on a historical TW title on top of Warhammer. And presumably a few other teams on other games; I believe Alien: Isolation was totally separate alongside Rome2 or whatever title they were on.

    In terms of mods the licensing issue was brought up numerous times.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • ZerglesZergles Member Registered Users Posts: 3,014
    Nyanko73 said:

    Lord of the rings mod would be boring. Only two sides....

    Actually in the LotR universe there are way more than just two "sides". The movies don't show how intricate Middle Earth actually is. They focus on one conflict at a time that mostly concerns humans, some Elves, some Dwarves, and a crapload of Orcs and Urukai.

    In the Tolkien universe overall, the humans are actually pretty diverse (almost like GoT). Orcs and Goblins have tons of different splinter factions while Sauron is out. There's Undead. Forest people (Fae, human hermit type dudes, Ents.) and so on.

    It also hints at Elves being pretty diverse too.

    And of course you have Dwarfs.

    If they set a TW:Middle Earth, in the time shortly after Sauron was defeated, it would actually be pretty neat. And there would be a ton of different sides. Humans, Elves and Dwarfs were not always allies. And the Orcs turned into roving bands all with their own agendas.
  • InhisnameInhisname Registered Users Posts: 100
    Zergles said:

    Nyanko73 said:

    Lord of the rings mod would be boring. Only two sides....

    Actually in the LotR universe there are way more than just two "sides". The movies don't show how intricate Middle Earth actually is. They focus on one conflict at a time that mostly concerns humans, some Elves, some Dwarves, and a crapload of Orcs and Urukai.

    In the Tolkien universe overall, the humans are actually pretty diverse (almost like GoT). Orcs and Goblins have tons of different splinter factions while Sauron is out. There's Undead. Forest people (Fae, human hermit type dudes, Ents.) and so on.

    It also hints at Elves being pretty diverse too.

    And of course you have Dwarfs.

    If they set a TW:Middle Earth, in the time shortly after Sauron was defeated, it would actually be pretty neat. And there would be a ton of different sides. Humans, Elves and Dwarfs were not always allies. And the Orcs turned into roving bands all with their own agendas.
    True, but in the end they were still the good guys, more so than their counterparts in Warhammer can claim to be. The ambiguity was always much more prevalent in Warhammer.

  • seienchinseienchin Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,572
    Third Age tw mod is one of my favorite TW games ever despite some dubious design decisions and way too big map.

    Lotr - at least in the peter jacksonied version - is just perfect for a TW game.

    Why?
    Because factions are really diverse what makes the game just a joy to play with lots of replayability:

    Rohan: Superb medium Cavalry and Cav Skirmishers
    Isengard - Great Infantry. Pikes and Crossbows and lots of light allies. Few cavalry though
    Mordor - lots of cheap cannon fodder mixed with awesome monster units like Trolls and Nazgul.
    Gondor - heavy armored troops. All around great troops and heavy shock cavalry but excelling at none.
    Evil Men - Heavy Cavalry and troops like Mumakhils combined with light troops.
    Dwarfs - Best sturdy infantry.
    Eriador - unique unification events, Great Archers (Hobbits and dunedain) but overal underdogs
    Elves - Best warriors but only a few and very defensive. Strong garrisons but weak / small field armies

    And Dale, Gundabad and Misty Mountain Orcs, different elve factions, Dunland and the corsairs of Umbar could be added as well.
  • DreadedNorwegianDreadedNorwegian Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,177
    PaulH said:

    Go play Third Age Total War.

    Best mod ever.
    Enig og tro til Dovre faller!
  • rhinoinsomniacrhinoinsomniac Member Registered Users Posts: 951
    well it's not just that CA said we can't mod into other fantasy universes - it's also that it's currently pretty difficult to achieve.

    i respect the rules CA and GW laid down cuz i'm happy with TW WH. dream come true. but some people always want to mod in other universes. just go to the TW center and look at the mods in progress (overhauls) for various TW games. there's 2 GoT mods and one LoTR mods just for Attila

    back to what i was saying about actually doing it - good luck to anyone who tries i guess - and don't post it on the steam workshop.
    new textures to be done
    new meshes and models and 3d animation stuff
    new animations
    new music
    different campaign map
    possibly changing core game mechanics
    and then the normal modding stuff - lotsa DB editing

    that's alot of work
    Third Age TW was made by a team iirc and so is CoW


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  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 19,698
    edited April 2017
    It's really amazing how cranky some folks can get about copyright issues, but, unfortunately, that is the world we all live in.

    What that means, in response to the OP's questions, is that legal liabilities can override the best of intentions and the heartfelt wishes of the most fervent fan of a particular genre of gameplay.

    Sometime the expense is not worth the effort.

    Thread closed. Sorry.
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