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Will Dark Elves have slave soldiers from other factions?

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  • DalakhDalakh Senior Member FranceRegistered Users Posts: 1,937
    Dalakh said:

    If we forget the lore, army theme and everything and only focus on the usefulness of slaves for the DE on the TW battlefield, they would be an absolutely amazing tool to have for an elite and fragile army like the DE.

    You don't need too many of them, just a handful of units l to stand before your mainline and soak up some arrows, take punishing monster/elite cav/inf charges right in the face so that they never trample your deadly yet fragile elves with full force.

    They would be truly amazing, filling a very useful role that is (likely intentionally) left vacant of utterly expendable meatshields.

    Please people, read.
    "We shall strike down our foes with sharp steel and cold hearts. The weak die so that the strong prevail and none shall be spared. Then and only then will our enemies know the true meaning of fear."

    — Malekith, Witch King of Naggaroth
  • JaggsauceJaggsauce Registered Users Posts: 387

    Jaggsauce said:

    The first thing the armed slaves would do is kill their minders and run away, or defect to the enemy. It would be monumentally stupid for the DE to do this. Please don't make the DE any stupider than they already are.

    yeah sure, the outnumbered slave regiments would take up arms against all those swarms of dark elves right behind them. (the slaves are usually used as canon fodder)
    that would result in more deaths than if they sided with them for the sake of their lives.
    If the slaves don't outnumber the Druchii, there isn't actually a point to fielding them. They would just die, having taken only a few volleys.
    a few volleys is better than no volleys.
    nobody has infinite ammo.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 24,639
    edited June 2017
    Jaggsauce said:

    Jaggsauce said:

    The first thing the armed slaves would do is kill their minders and run away, or defect to the enemy. It would be monumentally stupid for the DE to do this. Please don't make the DE any stupider than they already are.

    yeah sure, the outnumbered slave regiments would take up arms against all those swarms of dark elves right behind them. (the slaves are usually used as canon fodder)
    that would result in more deaths than if they sided with them for the sake of their lives.
    If the slaves don't outnumber the Druchii, there isn't actually a point to fielding them. They would just die, having taken only a few volleys.
    a few volleys is better than no volleys.
    nobody has infinite ammo.
    Those volleys will end up in the DE's backs when they take their attention off the slaves and on the actual enemy. And if the DE retaliate? Death is preferable to slavery under the them.

    Really, the DE are one of the most horrible slavemasters that their slaves would probably even prefer getting eaten by Orks.

  • JaggsauceJaggsauce Registered Users Posts: 387

    Jaggsauce said:

    Jaggsauce said:

    The first thing the armed slaves would do is kill their minders and run away, or defect to the enemy. It would be monumentally stupid for the DE to do this. Please don't make the DE any stupider than they already are.

    yeah sure, the outnumbered slave regiments would take up arms against all those swarms of dark elves right behind them. (the slaves are usually used as canon fodder)
    that would result in more deaths than if they sided with them for the sake of their lives.
    If the slaves don't outnumber the Druchii, there isn't actually a point to fielding them. They would just die, having taken only a few volleys.
    a few volleys is better than no volleys.
    nobody has infinite ammo.
    Those volleys will end up in the DE's backs when they take their attention off the slaves and on the actual enemy. And if the DE retaliate? Death is preferable to slavery under the them.

    Really, the DE are one of the most horrible slavemasters that their slaves would probably even prefer getting eaten by Orks.
    too bad the world isn't fair, and that its likely not up to the captured individual, then.
    as if the DE's would give them a choice??
    its not "serve or die" its "serve or suffer".
  • IzzyStradlinIzzyStradlin Senior Member Karaz BrynRegistered Users Posts: 11,132
    Jaggsauce said:

    Jaggsauce said:

    The first thing the armed slaves would do is kill their minders and run away, or defect to the enemy. It would be monumentally stupid for the DE to do this. Please don't make the DE any stupider than they already are.

    yeah sure, the outnumbered slave regiments would take up arms against all those swarms of dark elves right behind them. (the slaves are usually used as canon fodder)
    that would result in more deaths than if they sided with them for the sake of their lives.
    If the slaves don't outnumber the Druchii, there isn't actually a point to fielding them. They would just die, having taken only a few volleys.
    a few volleys is better than no volleys.
    nobody has infinite ammo.
    You'd be surprised.
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    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCH4nPsl2ctS365aEfFBwxbg

    For ease of memory, if we're not talking about cavalry, everything the High Elves have is better than everything the Dark Elves have.

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  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,580
    Jaggsauce said:

    Jaggsauce said:

    Jaggsauce said:

    The first thing the armed slaves would do is kill their minders and run away, or defect to the enemy. It would be monumentally stupid for the DE to do this. Please don't make the DE any stupider than they already are.

    yeah sure, the outnumbered slave regiments would take up arms against all those swarms of dark elves right behind them. (the slaves are usually used as canon fodder)
    that would result in more deaths than if they sided with them for the sake of their lives.
    If the slaves don't outnumber the Druchii, there isn't actually a point to fielding them. They would just die, having taken only a few volleys.
    a few volleys is better than no volleys.
    nobody has infinite ammo.
    Those volleys will end up in the DE's backs when they take their attention off the slaves and on the actual enemy. And if the DE retaliate? Death is preferable to slavery under the them.

    Really, the DE are one of the most horrible slavemasters that their slaves would probably even prefer getting eaten by Orks.
    too bad the world isn't fair, and that its likely not up to the captured individual, then.
    as if the DE's would give them a choice??
    its not "serve or die" its "serve or suffer".
    considering it's a battleflied we talk about I think it's more like:
    "Serve and die or serve and suffer or die or die a suffering death"
    especially incase the enemy army stands a decent chance to win the battle (and is not composed of chaos, Dawi Zharr, Greenskins, Undead or Lizardmen) I could easily see the slaves switching sides
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  • JaggsauceJaggsauce Registered Users Posts: 387

    Jaggsauce said:

    Jaggsauce said:

    Jaggsauce said:

    The first thing the armed slaves would do is kill their minders and run away, or defect to the enemy. It would be monumentally stupid for the DE to do this. Please don't make the DE any stupider than they already are.

    yeah sure, the outnumbered slave regiments would take up arms against all those swarms of dark elves right behind them. (the slaves are usually used as canon fodder)
    that would result in more deaths than if they sided with them for the sake of their lives.
    If the slaves don't outnumber the Druchii, there isn't actually a point to fielding them. They would just die, having taken only a few volleys.
    a few volleys is better than no volleys.
    nobody has infinite ammo.
    Those volleys will end up in the DE's backs when they take their attention off the slaves and on the actual enemy. And if the DE retaliate? Death is preferable to slavery under the them.

    Really, the DE are one of the most horrible slavemasters that their slaves would probably even prefer getting eaten by Orks.
    too bad the world isn't fair, and that its likely not up to the captured individual, then.
    as if the DE's would give them a choice??
    its not "serve or die" its "serve or suffer".
    considering it's a battleflied we talk about I think it's more like:
    "Serve and die or serve and suffer or die or die a suffering death"
    especially incase the enemy army stands a decent chance to win the battle (and is not composed of chaos, Dawi Zharr, Greenskins, Undead or Lizardmen) I could easily see the slaves switching sides
    tbh that could be a very interesting mechanic, making people think twice before they "hire" slaves.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 24,639
    Jaggsauce said:

    Jaggsauce said:

    Jaggsauce said:

    The first thing the armed slaves would do is kill their minders and run away, or defect to the enemy. It would be monumentally stupid for the DE to do this. Please don't make the DE any stupider than they already are.

    yeah sure, the outnumbered slave regiments would take up arms against all those swarms of dark elves right behind them. (the slaves are usually used as canon fodder)
    that would result in more deaths than if they sided with them for the sake of their lives.
    If the slaves don't outnumber the Druchii, there isn't actually a point to fielding them. They would just die, having taken only a few volleys.
    a few volleys is better than no volleys.
    nobody has infinite ammo.
    Those volleys will end up in the DE's backs when they take their attention off the slaves and on the actual enemy. And if the DE retaliate? Death is preferable to slavery under the them.

    Really, the DE are one of the most horrible slavemasters that their slaves would probably even prefer getting eaten by Orks.
    too bad the world isn't fair, and that its likely not up to the captured individual, then.
    as if the DE's would give them a choice??
    its not "serve or die" its "serve or suffer".
    Yeah, try making good on that while in a battle, I bet your enemy would love you taking time off fighting just to torture some slaves to death.

  • JaggsauceJaggsauce Registered Users Posts: 387
    edited June 2017

    Jaggsauce said:

    Jaggsauce said:

    Jaggsauce said:

    The first thing the armed slaves would do is kill their minders and run away, or defect to the enemy. It would be monumentally stupid for the DE to do this. Please don't make the DE any stupider than they already are.

    yeah sure, the outnumbered slave regiments would take up arms against all those swarms of dark elves right behind them. (the slaves are usually used as canon fodder)
    that would result in more deaths than if they sided with them for the sake of their lives.
    If the slaves don't outnumber the Druchii, there isn't actually a point to fielding them. They would just die, having taken only a few volleys.
    a few volleys is better than no volleys.
    nobody has infinite ammo.
    Those volleys will end up in the DE's backs when they take their attention off the slaves and on the actual enemy. And if the DE retaliate? Death is preferable to slavery under the them.

    Really, the DE are one of the most horrible slavemasters that their slaves would probably even prefer getting eaten by Orks.
    too bad the world isn't fair, and that its likely not up to the captured individual, then.
    as if the DE's would give them a choice??
    its not "serve or die" its "serve or suffer".
    Yeah, try making good on that while in a battle, I bet your enemy would love you taking time off fighting just to torture some slaves to death.
    they wouldn't be tortured on the spot of course.. they'd be killed if they defied their master, and tortured if they did and cowered afterwards.

    the threat alone is enough to keep them in line, if not for the vast numbers of actual Dark Elves standing right behind them, blocking every chance of escape they possibly had. - and if caught turning on their masters mid-fight would result in endless torture for the rest of their lives - unless they, against all odds, beat the entire Dark Elf army... not to mention the enemy would probably slay them after they had been used to win the fight, depending on the faction.

    i figure nobody wants to get tortured by a dark elf, as he probably is a sadistic **** who takes pleasure in doing so, and would continue even if one made amends.

    P.S if the enemy even stood a slight chance of winning the battle, the first thing to be done would be to sacrifice the slaves.
    that one is a no-brainer.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 11,866

    Jaggsauce said:

    Jaggsauce said:

    Jaggsauce said:

    The first thing the armed slaves would do is kill their minders and run away, or defect to the enemy. It would be monumentally stupid for the DE to do this. Please don't make the DE any stupider than they already are.

    yeah sure, the outnumbered slave regiments would take up arms against all those swarms of dark elves right behind them. (the slaves are usually used as canon fodder)
    that would result in more deaths than if they sided with them for the sake of their lives.
    If the slaves don't outnumber the Druchii, there isn't actually a point to fielding them. They would just die, having taken only a few volleys.
    a few volleys is better than no volleys.
    nobody has infinite ammo.
    Those volleys will end up in the DE's backs when they take their attention off the slaves and on the actual enemy. And if the DE retaliate? Death is preferable to slavery under the them.

    Really, the DE are one of the most horrible slavemasters that their slaves would probably even prefer getting eaten by Orks.
    too bad the world isn't fair, and that its likely not up to the captured individual, then.
    as if the DE's would give them a choice??
    its not "serve or die" its "serve or suffer".
    considering it's a battleflied we talk about I think it's more like:
    "Serve and die or serve and suffer or die or die a suffering death"
    especially incase the enemy army stands a decent chance to win the battle (and is not composed of chaos, Dawi Zharr, Greenskins, Undead or Lizardmen) I could easily see the slaves switching sides
    And when fighting against Mel Gibson they would have double chance of switching sides. :D
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 19,706
    Folks, passion has it's place in many areas, including gaming. Let's not allow our passionate exuberance for the game lead us into insults and intolerance against other members also on a journey through the field of play.

    Take it easy in the repartee. Thanks.




    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • SaurianDruidSaurianDruid Registered Users Posts: 1,052
    Jaggsauce said:



    i figure nobody wants to get tortured by a dark elf, as he probably is a sadistic **** who takes pleasure in doing so, and would continue even if one made amends.

    P.S if the enemy even stood a slight chance of winning the battle, the first thing to be done would be to sacrifice the slaves.
    that one is a no-brainer.

    You might have a point if the Dark Elves didn't have a tendency to torture and rape their slaves for the funsies. Half those slaves likely know they are going to get tortured after the battle no matter what they do just because the Brides of Khaine have gotten a little randy from the gore and need another outlet.

    Slave armies can only really work when they are treated somewhat humanely and there's a reward at the end of the tunnel, usually freedom.

    Also, slaves aren't cheap. Sacrificing hundreds of slave soldiers every battle you think might cause them to consider rebelling would be destroying potential workers that are vital to the Dark Elf economy.
  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,419
    Much easier to just have the Enslave Captives post-battle option have a much greater benefit for the winning army, with things like reduced upkeep or attrition and such.

    Being able to use other races' armies just means you'll either use the feature very heavily since it makes up for inherent built-in roster disadvantages... or not at all if it doesn't. IIRC in Rome2's Caesar in Gaul campaign, levy units kind of suffered from that; why bother recruiting cheap Celtic spearmen when you can easily hire mercenaries or just live with your legionaries, both being much better?

    I suppose one way to make a unique element is that Slave Soldiers work like Raise Dead mechanic: it relies on how many units you capture, and acts like mercenary pool; the penalty is that they have poorer stats to make up for the advantage of immediate numerical superiority.

    I don't see the point in slaves translating to units in battle mode though, it should stay as an economic element of the game. A mechanic that lets you use soldiers outside of training would either have to be so trivial that it's underused, or so reliable that it's the main way to play Dark Elfs.

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  • JastallJastall Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,116
    Slave soldiers sounds like a terrible idea to be honest. Maybe, just mayyyybe some kind of Peasant-like fodder being sent ahead of the main force, with LD so shockingly poor that they can't actually do anything. But not actually useful combat units.

    And anyway, it just seems smarter to use your slaves for manual labor, rather than throw them into combat where they will die, be recaptured, or go missing.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,900
    Which is probably why they stopped doing it - they found that it cost more than it was worth. The mention in earlier editions of using human slaves specified that they were drugged, so the drugs were probably intended to keep them under control - but there's probably a reason it hasn't been done since.

    It's worth noting that in Malus' case, the slave-soldiers were at least other Dark Elves, where there is at least the potential that any survivors would be given a second chance.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 11,866
    Ghilman was a real thing, but both Mamluks and Janissaries had gain much influence that way, and even overthrown some Sultans, I don't see the Dark Elves wanting something like that happen.
  • docjohnson1451docjohnson1451 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 207
    kilijan said:

    It would be interesting if they showed this in the roster but they won't. Slavery is a PC no no that a company like ca can't tolerate in any extreme.

    I'm guessing Warhammer is your first Total War game?
  • TheSaltySeagullsTheSaltySeagulls Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 184
    edited June 2017
    If slavery plays a role for the DE I think it would most likely be as an economic mechanic for campaign as opposed to actual slave army units. DE already have a rather fleshed out and full roster from TT so I dont see much of a need to start adding in new units for them out of the blue. Its not like brets where you had a roster that was outdated and lacking from the TT.
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