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Dear CA, please give the Empire and Dwarf cannons a grape shot ability, liked the elves bolt thrower

deckermdeckerm Registered Users Posts: 149
As the title suggests. empire and dwarf cannons should be able to switch between regular and grape shots, much like the high elves bolt thrower.
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  • IzzyStradlinIzzyStradlin Senior Member Cair Andros GarrisonRegistered Users Posts: 11,571
    Grapeshot is a thing those two races don't need.
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  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 5,644
    The organ gun getting grapeshot would be better. Would help it be more desirable in multiplayer.
  • HeroofRome1HeroofRome1 Member Registered Users Posts: 1,622
    With so many options for the game 2 factions, I can see this happening - especially in Master Engineer themed FLC, if we get such a thing.
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  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    deckerm said:

    As the title suggests. empire and dwarf cannons should be able to switch between regular and grape shots, much like the high elves bolt thrower.

    What exactly would that accomplish? For close range the Empire has the Hellfire Volley Gun (which will work much better once they fixed it's bugged volleys, I already did so with a mod) and the Dwarf's problem isn't that they have weak artillery but that they have a hard time defending it from charges by cavalry or monsters. Grapeshot won't help them there since those charges don't come from the front anyway.
  • KatarianKatarian Registered Users Posts: 246
    If you want artillery to kill infantry as the Empire bring a Helstorm, Helblaster or Mortar. The Cannon is your option for killing single targets. The High Elves and Dark Elves only have one option for artillery,
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 14,701

    The organ gun getting grapeshot would be better. Would help it be more desirable in multiplayer.

    amusingly I think it was grapeshot that lead to historical organ guns being phased out of usage
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  • MerarchesMerarches Registered Users Posts: 470
    Katarian said:

    If you want artillery to kill infantry as the Empire bring a Helstorm, Helblaster or Mortar. The Cannon is your option for killing single targets. The High Elves and Dark Elves only have one option for artillery,

    yes! and empire have a lot of options in game, no need to give them more options.
    there is no reason that now every race have the same. after this the dwarfs want a repeater boltthrower too and then chaos want a grape shot on the hellcanon and so on^^.
  • deckermdeckerm Registered Users Posts: 149
    Merarches said:

    Katarian said:

    If you want artillery to kill infantry as the Empire bring a Helstorm, Helblaster or Mortar. The Cannon is your option for killing single targets. The High Elves and Dark Elves only have one option for artillery,

    yes! and empire have a lot of options in game, no need to give them more options.
    there is no reason that now every race have the same. after this the dwarfs want a repeater boltthrower too and then chaos want a grape shot on the hellcanon and so on^^.
    You do realize the empire and dwarfs actually do have grapeshots in 8th edition army book , while the examples you provided are baseless.
  • Warboss2001Warboss2001 Registered Users Posts: 664
    Ogres have the best grapeshot cannons cos there SHOTGUNS
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  • ZilongZilong Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 501

    deckerm said:

    As the title suggests. empire and dwarf cannons should be able to switch between regular and grape shots, much like the high elves bolt thrower.

    What exactly would that accomplish? For close range the Empire has the Hellfire Volley Gun (which will work much better once they fixed it's bugged volleys, I already did so with a mod) and the Dwarf's problem isn't that they have weak artillery but that they have a hard time defending it from charges by cavalry or monsters. Grapeshot won't help them there since those charges don't come from the front anyway.
    What mod is that? I always wanted to try the things out but every time I take the hellblaster it feels somewhat lackluster.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    It's my homebrew mod which I currently have no plans uploading. If you want that fixed, go into the projectiles table and increase the amount of projectiles from 1 to 2.
  • KatarianKatarian Registered Users Posts: 246
    deckerm said:

    You do realize the empire and dwarfs actually do have grapeshots in 8th edition army book , while the examples you provided are baseless.

    Ellyrian Reavers are allowed to have both spears and bows in every edition of Warhammer but they aren't going to in the game, presumably for the same balance/redundancy reasons as cannons not having grapeshot.

  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 11,661
    deckerm said:

    Merarches said:

    Katarian said:

    If you want artillery to kill infantry as the Empire bring a Helstorm, Helblaster or Mortar. The Cannon is your option for killing single targets. The High Elves and Dark Elves only have one option for artillery,

    yes! and empire have a lot of options in game, no need to give them more options.
    there is no reason that now every race have the same. after this the dwarfs want a repeater boltthrower too and then chaos want a grape shot on the hellcanon and so on^^.
    You do realize the empire and dwarfs actually do have grapeshots in 8th edition army book , while the examples you provided are baseless.
    Grapeshot goes at least back to 6th edition as well.
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  • ValeliValeli Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,120
    edited July 2017
    Edit: nvm. Not a fan of this idea though.
  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 5,021
    I´d like to see something like that.

    Would give a bit more utility to those units.

    Maybe a "barrage mode" for hellblaster / organ gun could make them into real infantry killers at last.

    I imagine something like : -50 % accuracy, +100% reload speed
  • MerarchesMerarches Registered Users Posts: 470
    edited July 2017
    deckerm said:

    Merarches said:

    Katarian said:

    If you want artillery to kill infantry as the Empire bring a Helstorm, Helblaster or Mortar. The Cannon is your option for killing single targets. The High Elves and Dark Elves only have one option for artillery,

    yes! and empire have a lot of options in game, no need to give them more options.
    there is no reason that now every race have the same. after this the dwarfs want a repeater boltthrower too and then chaos want a grape shot on the hellcanon and so on^^.
    You do realize the empire and dwarfs actually do have grapeshots in 8th edition army book , while the examples you provided are baseless.
    yeah in TT, but this is total war. a lot of units and abilitys are missing in total war, and im sure one point is to make factions more uniqe and for balance
    and i realy dont know why empire need a buff. specialy at arty
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 7,351
    Nah.

    Didn't the video say that it was the only artillery the High Elves had? Both the Empire (or "The Empaah" as it's pronounced in-game) and Short Yorkshiremen have a variety of it, they don't need more.
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  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,803
    Arsenic said:

    Nah.

    Didn't the video say that it was the only artillery the High Elves had? Both the Empire (or "The Empaah" as it's pronounced in-game) and Short Yorkshiremen have a variety of it, they don't need more.

    Very good point. It is their only artillery so it has need to be multi-purpose.
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  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,695
    Not needed, but it was a thing in the tabletop and would be a fun feature. The cannons and the factions that field them could be balanced around the change.

    I definitely do not expect this to become a feature though.
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  • PhiloslothicalPhiloslothical Registered Users Posts: 859
    Next step : Grape shot of doomdivers
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  • Neolucifer2000Neolucifer2000 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 956
    deckerm said:

    As the title suggests. empire and dwarf cannons should be able to switch between regular and grape shots, much like the high elves bolt thrower.

    I AGREE


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  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 11,023
    Grapeshot in the tabletop was pretty short range (12", half that of a Volley Gun). It was pretty much a last-minute Hail Valaya before your lines got hit.

    It probably would be interesting to have as an option, representing the cannons loading grapshot and holding fire until the target was in range rather than firing cannonballs at long range, but it certainly wouldn't be the same behaviour as the elven bolt throwers that can fire either mode out to maximum range.
  • zzdjdegmzzdjdegm New York, United StatesRegistered Users Posts: 269
    No, they are both op already
  • Donorma_IronshieldDonorma_Ironshield Registered Users Posts: 383
    edited July 2017
    I can get behind this. With how mechanically in depth the newer factions including some of War hammer 1 DLC factions; I would love to see a comb brought through War hammer 1 vanilla faction to bring them up to spec.

    Arsenic said:

    Nah.

    Didn't the video say that it was the only artillery the High Elves had? Both the Empire (or "The Empaah" as it's pronounced in-game) and Short Yorkshiremen have a variety of it, they don't need more.

    Very good point. It is their only artillery so it has need to be multi-purpose.
    With a much less investment as well I imagine...or is their bolt thrower going to cost ~1800?
  • ValeliValeli Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,120
    Dunno what it'll cost. It wasn't super cheap on the table top though.
  • MrMecHMrMecH Registered Users Posts: 2,390
    I think different. If you ask about spread shot then they already has Helstorm and Flame Cannon. They just need buffed.
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  • seienchinseienchin Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,572
    edited July 2017
    deckerm said:

    Merarches said:

    Katarian said:

    If you want artillery to kill infantry as the Empire bring a Helstorm, Helblaster or Mortar. The Cannon is your option for killing single targets. The High Elves and Dark Elves only have one option for artillery,

    yes! and empire have a lot of options in game, no need to give them more options.
    there is no reason that now every race have the same. after this the dwarfs want a repeater boltthrower too and then chaos want a grape shot on the hellcanon and so on^^.
    You do realize the empire and dwarfs actually do have grapeshots in 8th edition army book , while the examples you provided are baseless.
    Thank you! And adding to this: Warhammer cannons ALWAYS had Grapeshot.
    There is no reason not to have it except for artificial gamey reasons like "they have other weapons for that".
    Sure next we will make swordmen not able to fight cavalry at all because spears are better for that... and then Cavalry cant fight monsters anymore because we have ranged units for that.
  • ShermanSherman Member Registered Users Posts: 937

    Why not. It's a reasonable option, there is not reason for this cannons to don't do grapeshot, a we know they have the ability to do that in the original game .
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    seienchin said:

    deckerm said:

    Merarches said:

    Katarian said:

    If you want artillery to kill infantry as the Empire bring a Helstorm, Helblaster or Mortar. The Cannon is your option for killing single targets. The High Elves and Dark Elves only have one option for artillery,

    yes! and empire have a lot of options in game, no need to give them more options.
    there is no reason that now every race have the same. after this the dwarfs want a repeater boltthrower too and then chaos want a grape shot on the hellcanon and so on^^.
    You do realize the empire and dwarfs actually do have grapeshots in 8th edition army book , while the examples you provided are baseless.
    Thank you! And adding to this: Warhammer cannons ALWAYS had Grapeshot.
    There is no reason not to have it except for artificial gamey reasons like "they have other weapons for that".
    Sure next we will make swordmen not able to fight cavalry at all because spears are better for that... and then Cavalry cant fight monsters anymore because we have ranged units for that.
    In the TT cannons can also potentially one-shot large monsters and characters or obliterate half a regiment with a single hit. Let's put that in here too!
  • CyberianKCyberianK Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 40
    Really did the WHFB cannons always have grapeshot?
    I think I remember a time 25 years ago or so when I played Empire that my Great-cannons did not have it but I might be wrong.
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