Dear CA, please give the Empire and Dwarf cannons a grape shot ability, liked the elves bolt thrower

deckerm · July 2017

As the title suggests. empire and dwarf cannons should be able to switch between regular and grape shots, much like the high elves bolt thrower.

IzzyStradlin · July 2017

Grapeshot is a thing those two races don't need.

Mogwai_Man · July 2017

The organ gun getting grapeshot would be better. Would help it be more desirable in multiplayer.

HeroofRome1 · July 2017

With so many options for the game 2 factions, I can see this happening - especially in Master Engineer themed FLC, if we get such a thing.

TheShiroOfDalton · July 2017

deckerm said:
As the title suggests. empire and dwarf cannons should be able to switch between regular and grape shots, much like the high elves bolt thrower.

What exactly would that accomplish? For close range the Empire has the Hellfire Volley Gun (which will work much better once they fixed it's bugged volleys, I already did so with a mod) and the Dwarf's problem isn't that they have weak artillery but that they have a hard time defending it from charges by cavalry or monsters. Grapeshot won't help them there since those charges don't come from the front anyway.

Katarian · July 2017

If you want artillery to kill infantry as the Empire bring a Helstorm, Helblaster or Mortar. The Cannon is your option for killing single targets. The High Elves and Dark Elves only have one option for artillery,

TheGuardianOfMetal · July 2017

Mogwai_Man said:
The organ gun getting grapeshot would be better. Would help it be more desirable in multiplayer.

amusingly I think it was grapeshot that lead to historical organ guns being phased out of usage

Merarches · July 2017

Katarian said:
If you want artillery to kill infantry as the Empire bring a Helstorm, Helblaster or Mortar. The Cannon is your option for killing single targets. The High Elves and Dark Elves only have one option for artillery,

yes! and empire have a lot of options in game, no need to give them more options.
there is no reason that now every race have the same. after this the dwarfs want a repeater boltthrower too and then chaos want a grape shot on the hellcanon and so on^^.

deckerm · July 2017

Merarches said:

Katarian said:
If you want artillery to kill infantry as the Empire bring a Helstorm, Helblaster or Mortar. The Cannon is your option for killing single targets. The High Elves and Dark Elves only have one option for artillery,
yes! and empire have a lot of options in game, no need to give them more options.
there is no reason that now every race have the same. after this the dwarfs want a repeater boltthrower too and then chaos want a grape shot on the hellcanon and so on^^.

You do realize the empire and dwarfs actually do have grapeshots in 8th edition army book , while the examples you provided are baseless.

Warboss2001 · July 2017

Ogres have the best grapeshot cannons cos there SHOTGUNS

Zilong · July 2017

Ephraim_Dalton said:

deckerm said:
As the title suggests. empire and dwarf cannons should be able to switch between regular and grape shots, much like the high elves bolt thrower.
What exactly would that accomplish? For close range the Empire has the Hellfire Volley Gun (which will work much better once they fixed it's bugged volleys, I already did so with a mod) and the Dwarf's problem isn't that they have weak artillery but that they have a hard time defending it from charges by cavalry or monsters. Grapeshot won't help them there since those charges don't come from the front anyway.

What mod is that? I always wanted to try the things out but every time I take the hellblaster it feels somewhat lackluster.

TheShiroOfDalton · July 2017

It's my homebrew mod which I currently have no plans uploading. If you want that fixed, go into the projectiles table and increase the amount of projectiles from 1 to 2.

Katarian · July 2017

deckerm said:
You do realize the empire and dwarfs actually do have grapeshots in 8th edition army book , while the examples you provided are baseless.

Ellyrian Reavers are allowed to have both spears and bows in every edition of Warhammer but they aren't going to in the game, presumably for the same balance/redundancy reasons as cannons not having grapeshot.

RikRiorik · July 2017

deckerm said:

Merarches said:

Katarian said:
If you want artillery to kill infantry as the Empire bring a Helstorm, Helblaster or Mortar. The Cannon is your option for killing single targets. The High Elves and Dark Elves only have one option for artillery,
yes! and empire have a lot of options in game, no need to give them more options.
there is no reason that now every race have the same. after this the dwarfs want a repeater boltthrower too and then chaos want a grape shot on the hellcanon and so on^^.
You do realize the empire and dwarfs actually do have grapeshots in 8th edition army book , while the examples you provided are baseless.

Grapeshot goes at least back to 6th edition as well.

Valeli · July 2017

Edit: nvm. Not a fan of this idea though.

TeNoSkill · July 2017

I´d like to see something like that.

Would give a bit more utility to those units.

Maybe a "barrage mode" for hellblaster / organ gun could make them into real infantry killers at last.

I imagine something like : -50 % accuracy, +100% reload speed

Merarches · July 2017

deckerm said:

Merarches said:

Katarian said:
If you want artillery to kill infantry as the Empire bring a Helstorm, Helblaster or Mortar. The Cannon is your option for killing single targets. The High Elves and Dark Elves only have one option for artillery,
yes! and empire have a lot of options in game, no need to give them more options.
there is no reason that now every race have the same. after this the dwarfs want a repeater boltthrower too and then chaos want a grape shot on the hellcanon and so on^^.
You do realize the empire and dwarfs actually do have grapeshots in 8th edition army book , while the examples you provided are baseless.

yeah in TT, but this is total war. a lot of units and abilitys are missing in total war, and im sure one point is to make factions more uniqe and for balance
and i realy dont know why empire need a buff. specialy at arty

Arsenic · July 2017

Nah.

Didn't the video say that it was the only artillery the High Elves had? Both the Empire (or "The Empaah" as it's pronounced in-game) and Short Yorkshiremen have a variety of it, they don't need more.

FinishingLast · July 2017

Arsenic said:
Nah.

Didn't the video say that it was the only artillery the High Elves had? Both the Empire (or "The Empaah" as it's pronounced in-game) and Short Yorkshiremen have a variety of it, they don't need more.

Very good point. It is their only artillery so it has need to be multi-purpose.

krunsh · July 2017

Not needed, but it was a thing in the tabletop and would be a fun feature. The cannons and the factions that field them could be balanced around the change.

I definitely do not expect this to become a feature though.

Philoslothical · July 2017

Next step : Grape shot of doomdivers

Neolucifer2000 · July 2017

deckerm said:
As the title suggests. empire and dwarf cannons should be able to switch between regular and grape shots, much like the high elves bolt thrower.

I AGREE

Draxynnic · July 2017

Grapeshot in the tabletop was pretty short range (12", half that of a Volley Gun). It was pretty much a last-minute Hail Valaya before your lines got hit.

It probably would be interesting to have as an option, representing the cannons loading grapshot and holding fire until the target was in range rather than firing cannonballs at long range, but it certainly wouldn't be the same behaviour as the elven bolt throwers that can fire either mode out to maximum range.

zzdjdegm · July 2017

No, they are both op already

Donorma_Ironshield · July 2017

I can get behind this. With how mechanically in depth the newer factions including some of War hammer 1 DLC factions; I would love to see a comb brought through War hammer 1 vanilla faction to bring them up to spec.

FinishingLast said:

Arsenic said:
Nah.

Didn't the video say that it was the only artillery the High Elves had? Both the Empire (or "The Empaah" as it's pronounced in-game) and Short Yorkshiremen have a variety of it, they don't need more.
Very good point. It is their only artillery so it has need to be multi-purpose.

With a much less investment as well I imagine...or is their bolt thrower going to cost ~1800?

Valeli · July 2017

Dunno what it'll cost. It wasn't super cheap on the table top though.

MrMecH · July 2017

I think different. If you ask about spread shot then they already has Helstorm and Flame Cannon. They just need buffed.

seienchin · July 2017

deckerm said:

Merarches said:

Katarian said:
If you want artillery to kill infantry as the Empire bring a Helstorm, Helblaster or Mortar. The Cannon is your option for killing single targets. The High Elves and Dark Elves only have one option for artillery,
yes! and empire have a lot of options in game, no need to give them more options.
there is no reason that now every race have the same. after this the dwarfs want a repeater boltthrower too and then chaos want a grape shot on the hellcanon and so on^^.
You do realize the empire and dwarfs actually do have grapeshots in 8th edition army book , while the examples you provided are baseless.

Thank you! And adding to this: Warhammer cannons ALWAYS had Grapeshot.
There is no reason not to have it except for artificial gamey reasons like "they have other weapons for that".
Sure next we will make swordmen not able to fight cavalry at all because spears are better for that... and then Cavalry cant fight monsters anymore because we have ranged units for that.

Sherman · July 2017

Why not. It's a reasonable option, there is not reason for this cannons to don't do grapeshot, a we know they have the ability to do that in the original game .

TheShiroOfDalton · July 2017

seienchin said:

deckerm said:

Merarches said:

Katarian said:
If you want artillery to kill infantry as the Empire bring a Helstorm, Helblaster or Mortar. The Cannon is your option for killing single targets. The High Elves and Dark Elves only have one option for artillery,
yes! and empire have a lot of options in game, no need to give them more options.
there is no reason that now every race have the same. after this the dwarfs want a repeater boltthrower too and then chaos want a grape shot on the hellcanon and so on^^.
You do realize the empire and dwarfs actually do have grapeshots in 8th edition army book , while the examples you provided are baseless.
Thank you! And adding to this: Warhammer cannons ALWAYS had Grapeshot.
There is no reason not to have it except for artificial gamey reasons like "they have other weapons for that".
Sure next we will make swordmen not able to fight cavalry at all because spears are better for that... and then Cavalry cant fight monsters anymore because we have ranged units for that.

In the TT cannons can also potentially one-shot large monsters and characters or obliterate half a regiment with a single hit. Let's put that in here too!

CyberianK · July 2017

Really did the WHFB cannons always have grapeshot?
I think I remember a time 25 years ago or so when I played Empire that my Great-cannons did not have it but I might be wrong.

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Dear CA, please give the Empire and Dwarf cannons a grape shot ability, liked the elves bolt thrower

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