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Wood Elves very difficulty

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  • malzekmalzek Registered Users Posts: 92
    MrJade said:

    malzek said:


    The end goal is to capture one of the wood elves settlement. I'm going to try to get do this in my current playthough. If i cant then Ill start a new campaign and try to so . When you was raiding which areas was you raiding at? Would you like to see what i did in my play through.

    I raided my province. King's Glade.
    endur said:

    Trade with wood elves requires a special building. I think it is the mask one.

    Trade with non-WE requires a seat on the council which requires a building. But you have to have both, a general in that position and the position unlocked.
    lucibuis said:

    this sounds like cheating

    I don't see how. I even turned off all my mods for this.
    you raided your province to build up your money and general rank? Which building do you need to trade with other elves or Confederate with them?
  • malzekmalzek Registered Users Posts: 92
    edited July 2017
    zzdjdegm said:

    cavs are not that good either to be honest

    malzek said:

    Just started the Wood Elves with Orion . What would be a good strategy for starting out. I know their infantry not that strong but they make up for that with cav and archer. Open to any advice because i would like to get with the faction.

    Here what i did in the first 16 turns.

    I just completed a campaign on legendary, which I found ridiculously easy as Argwylon. Here's my tips.

    1. public order is your biggest issue, especially on legendary where it gives -8.
    deploy your branch wraith (hero) in your province for a +5 or more po bonus so your army is free to go conquering.

    2. cash at the beginning is pretty dire, but this is easily fixable.
    i recruit 3 infantry, then go and raze the three nearest small bretonian (minor faction) settlements. this provides enough cash to upgrade settlement/buildings to t3 and get some troops. it also boosts relations with other wood elves.

    3. main war targets
    your starting province is v.unlikely to be attacked if you keep po up to prevent rebellions. send your army to attack either norscans, the empire or orks. their settlements will bring 10-20k cash each one you raze. you can easily afford to operate on a deficit once you start this stage.

    4. victory
    to win you need to upgrade oak of ages to t5. i found military alliances the best way to do this. if you want to win by conquest, i'd suggest targeting the empire. orcs or norscans are better for alliances, as everybody hates them

    5. confederation
    be careful about when you confederate with other elves. for 8 turns after you get -8 po in all provinces

    6. settlements outside athel lorien
    obviously wood elves can conquer anywhere, but building income is horrific from outposts. there is however a tech granting +400% income from ports. this means coastal outposts bring in 400-500 cash per turn. you can use these to supplement your income and keep it from going negative.


    zzdjdegm said:

    cavs are not that good either to be honest

    They seem pretty decent to me.


    That last screenshot was from the finally battle of the Oak of Ages? What made the campaign easy with Argwylon?
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member Lansing, MIRegistered Users Posts: 7,166
    malzek said:

    you raided your province to build up your money and general rank?

    Yes, as the post-battle loot provided most of my income. Anywhere from 2k-5k a battle.
    malzek said:

    Which building do you need to trade with other elves or Confederate with them?

    Trickster's Masque.
  • bli-nk#6314bli-nk#6314 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,959
    malzek said:


    Other then the hero i start out with i didn't get another one unless i recruited one. Building the economy building first. What did you build after that? Getting diplo with Bretonnia would be easy to do.

    The council eventually rewards you with another hero or at least I got another in every campaign so far. Branchwraith due to spells is quite valuable to have in your army but the elf archer hero is just meh. Has some weak in battle bonuses if you keep right next to archers but the campaign uses for that one are usually stronger.

    I am trying to remember exact order with WE because I usually demolish a couple buildings in the first 40 turns.

    1. economy
    2. public order
    3. barracks +1 level
    4. the cavalry building to recruit wild riders then demolish and another garrison or the bonus income building
    5. -barracks + garrison (demolish barracks once you recruited full army)
    6. archer building then demolish for a temple

    Basically King's Glade shouldn't be your main recruitment center but more for campaign benefits. WE can recruit basic unit from outposts and once you conquer other Wood Elf settlements they will have a couple barracks buildings at max level so you can fill higher tiers of 2nd army from those captured settlements.

    Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society.” Mark Twain
  • bingbangbongbingbangbong Member Registered Users Posts: 684
    malzek said:


    That last screenshot was from the finally battle of the Oak of Ages? What made the campaign easy with Argwylon?

    Yes it was from the final battle.

    And the campaign was easy because the legendary lord has immunity to all attrition for his army (although its also a tech you can research as wood elves/for the rest off your armies too).

    I was able to deploy my hero (branch wraith) to basically pacify my starting province, while my starting army +3 extra units I recruited on turn 1 went and razed 3 undefended minor settlements nearby for a bit of extra cash.

    Then I took my army back and waited until my city hit t3 to recruit some treekin and build the fully upgraded PO building, recruited a 20 stack, marched it all the way to the chaos wastes and razed/seeded everything. Chaos and all the norscan tribes only ever sacked 1 settlement outside of the wastes and never managed to defeat krak a drak before being wiped out, and everybody else loved me for it (and because of tech) and allied to give me all the amber I needed to win (I actually won a bit before archaon even appeared, but I'd already wiped out the chaos tribes by then and chaos warrior stacks had started to spawn).

    Since I had so many allies I just used war co-ordination to kill the vampire factions and beastmen, while I was dealing with chaos, then with just the orcs left after they somehow beat the dwarves down to 1 settlement, I attacked them from the south and north simaltaneously with 4 stacks (3 from south after I confederated with the elves and the original 1 from the chaos wastes from the north) and just butchered them without really meeting any resistance.

    It was basically like playing as a horde, but with super fast unit regeneration/a 10 unit garrison if needed, or looting and sacking in the same turn if not & also a tonne of allies to order around and AI to confederate with. I'd wiped out every hostile faction from the map by turn 180ish and since I spent the early game conquering the norscan tribes for 10-20k a settlement, the chaos invasion was crushed before it even began and I was sitting on 100k+ cash for most of the game (which made diplomacy even easier).

  • bli-nk#6314bli-nk#6314 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,959


    I was able to deploy my hero (branch wraith) to basically pacify my starting province,

    Is there some trick to this I don't know because deployed hero only gives +5 public order while the base PO on legendary is -8 and then add in taxes etc and total negative is -15 or something per turn. Even with a deployed hero PO would be going down -10 per turn at campaign start (later there is faction wide +PO and the hero can have +PO traits).

    Usually, as Wood Elves you have to fight at least 2 rebellions if you leave King's Glade in the first 30 turns or as noted in other comments in this thread you can raid your own province to fight even more often. I do sometimes leave the starting hero deployed to slow down the negative PO growth and fight rebellions a few turns later but not sure how to send the single WE army north to Norsca early in a Legendary campaign simply due to PO not to mention the Beastmen and Orc spawns or other neighbors.
    Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society.” Mark Twain
  • CnConradCnConrad Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,197
    I'm finishing up a just plain hard campaign as the ents and wow are they powerful.

    Other than annoying Beastmen spawns in happy and controlled areas every 25 turns and the difficult starting economy I kicked butt, the treekin were crazy powerful and the elk riders were great cav.
  • bingbangbongbingbangbong Member Registered Users Posts: 684
    Ichon said:


    I was able to deploy my hero (branch wraith) to basically pacify my starting province,

    Is there some trick to this I don't know because deployed hero only gives +5 public order while the base PO on legendary is -8 and then add in taxes etc and total negative is -15 or something per turn. Even with a deployed hero PO would be going down -10 per turn at campaign start (later there is faction wide +PO and the hero can have +PO traits).

    Usually, as Wood Elves you have to fight at least 2 rebellions if you leave King's Glade in the first 30 turns or as noted in other comments in this thread you can raid your own province to fight even more often. I do sometimes leave the starting hero deployed to slow down the negative PO growth and fight rebellions a few turns later but not sure how to send the single WE army north to Norsca early in a Legendary campaign simply due to PO not to mention the Beastmen and Orc spawns or other neighbors.
    The total negative order is -8 for difficulty and -4 for taxes, so -12 total. The branch wraith immediately clears 5, then at lvl 2, you can choose an extra +1 boost to PO from wraith's skill tree, and you tend to get an additional +1 PO from traits at lvl 2 as well, granting a total of 7 PO. Then if you add +3 for PO building once your settlement hits t3, you're on 10, so -2 PO total, and on upgrading tree of life to t2, you get +2 PO putting you even or at -0 with no garrison needed.

    I'll run through the start again and grab some screens for you, since that calculation was just done off the top of my head and may not be 100% accurate.

    I 100% had time to leave on turn 2 and sack 3 settlements and return, then leave again and never return once i hit t3 settlement on my legendary play through though.
  • bingbangbongbingbangbong Member Registered Users Posts: 684
    CnConrad said:

    I'm finishing up a just plain hard campaign as the ents and wow are they powerful.

    Other than annoying Beastmen spawns in happy and controlled areas every 25 turns and the difficult starting economy I kicked butt, the treekin were crazy powerful and the elk riders were great cav.


    Yeah +15 atk/def for all units, +15% armour and +15% weapon strength as buffs. Gotta love it.
  • bingbangbongbingbangbong Member Registered Users Posts: 684
    edited July 2017
    Ichon said:


    I was able to deploy my hero (branch wraith) to basically pacify my starting province,

    Is there some trick to this I don't know because deployed hero only gives +5 public order while the base PO on legendary is -8 and then add in taxes etc and total negative is -15 or something per turn. Even with a deployed hero PO would be going down -10 per turn at campaign start (later there is faction wide +PO and the hero can have +PO traits).

    Usually, as Wood Elves you have to fight at least 2 rebellions if you leave King's Glade in the first 30 turns or as noted in other comments in this thread you can raid your own province to fight even more often. I do sometimes leave the starting hero deployed to slow down the negative PO growth and fight rebellions a few turns later but not sure how to send the single WE army north to Norsca early in a Legendary campaign simply due to PO not to mention the Beastmen and Orc spawns or other neighbors.
    Took some screens of my first 25 turns in a fresh legendary campaign as argwylon to give you an idea of what public order was like and what my army was doing. By turn 25 I was on my way to norsca.

    Turn 1


    Turn 2


    Turn 3


    Turn 4


    Turn 5


    Turn 6


    Turn 7


    Turn 8


    Turn 9


    Turn 10


    Turn 11


    Turn 12


    Turn 13


    Turn 14


    Turn 15


    Turn 16


    Turn 17


    Turn 18


    Turn 19


    Turn 20


    Turn 21


    Turn 22


    Turn 23


    Turn 24


    Turn 25





    and had arrived by turn 30 with only -1 PO per turn in my city and overall positive happiness.

    Turn 30





    Post edited by bingbangbong on
  • bli-nk#6314bli-nk#6314 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,959
    edited July 2017


    I 100% had time to leave on turn 2 and sack 3 settlements and return, then leave again and never return once i hit t3 settlement on my legendary play through though.

    No, that is fine- I do the same thing roughly though I don't take all the +PO with the Branchwraith but it was more in response to statement earlier in the thread about going to Norsca early. I took early to be in the first 20 turns but if waiting for T3 that would be mid campaign to me and it didn't make sense if leaving so early unless there was some trick I didn't know about handling PO.


    Yeah +15 atk/def for all units, +15% armour and +15% weapon strength as buffs. Gotta love it.

    Durthu feels quite a bit easier campaign than Orion due to start position and Treekin but the opening moves aren't hugely different, just easier to accomplish with Durthu.
    Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society.” Mark Twain
  • Mogwai_Man#4978Mogwai_Man#4978 Registered Users Posts: 6,059
    Once I got my army buffs, lore of life, and tree kin it was too easy. They are actually my least favorite campaign.
  • bingbangbongbingbangbong Member Registered Users Posts: 684
    Ichon said:


    I 100% had time to leave on turn 2 and sack 3 settlements and return, then leave again and never return once i hit t3 settlement on my legendary play through though.

    No, that is fine- I do the same thing roughly though I don't take all the +PO with the Branchwraith but it was more in response to statement earlier in the thread about going to Norsca early. I took early to be in the first 20 turns but if waiting for T3 that would be mid campaign to me and it didn't make sense if leaving so early unless there was some trick I didn't know about handling PO.


    Yeah +15 atk/def for all units, +15% armour and +15% weapon strength as buffs. Gotta love it.

    Durthu feels quite a bit easier campaign than Orion due to start position and Treekin but the opening moves aren't hugely different, just easier to accomplish with Durthu.
    To me, arriving in Norsca by turn 30 is still pretty early campaign, although you could probably leave a lot earlier than I did if you didn't spend so much on buildings as I did and used global recruitment to bolster your armies with better units when you arrived in Norsca. Also 108 turns until a rebellion is definitely excessive, but better to play it safe on legendary.

    And you're right it's definitely slightly more straightforward for Durthu, especially since he already has immunity to all attrition, although I think it's pretty easily doable with the wood elves too. All it would take for them is 10 turns unharassed to march an army to Norsca, and then if you're still worried about defending your starting territory, you'll be able to afford to recruit a fresh army in your starting province from the 10k+ you bring in from each town you raze.

    I've not tried it, but I'm fairly sure Durthu can just march for the chaos wastes on turn 2, arriving around turn 10 and be able to make enough cash to fill up his army and recruit a fresh one without a revolt, although that would probably be cutting things much closer. I'll test it out tomorrow when I have more time.
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member Lansing, MIRegistered Users Posts: 7,166
    WEs and Bretonnia are the easiest campaigns once you understand their particular meta. Both are relatively insulated and have the ability to confederate easily and/or with bonii.

    Honestly, the only campaign that I find mildly difficult in Angrund. Chaos and Skarsnik are probably the next at average.
  • bingbangbongbingbangbong Member Registered Users Posts: 684
    MrJade said:

    WEs and Bretonnia are the easiest campaigns once you understand their particular meta. Both are relatively insulated and have the ability to confederate easily and/or with bonii.

    Honestly, the only campaign that I find mildly difficult in Angrund. Chaos and Skarsnik are probably the next at average.

    I found chaos really easy as well. Easier than argwlyn by far, because you don't even need to deal with public order, just sack, then awaken/betray/vassalise every tribe on the same turn then blitz against the empire and bretonia with a whole bunch of vassals in tow.

    I've not tried many of the others yet. Von Carstein was the first I tried and was pretty straightforward, but po was a pain to manage and kept most of my armies tied down, so I moved on to more horde like factions.

  • lucibuis#6195lucibuis#6195 Registered Users Posts: 7,168
    edited July 2017
    I do almost the same as argwylon, but I sack the goblin towns instead.

    The difference between Orion and durthu is that waterfall palace is safer to the beastmen compared to kings glade, so it is safe to go to norsca early. Orion has to deal with carcassone first until peace out or conquered and then with beastmen and estalia. So for Orion it makes more sense to just conquer carcassone estalia and tilea first
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • bingbangbongbingbangbong Member Registered Users Posts: 684
    lucibuis said:

    I do almost the same as argwylon, but I sack the goblin towns instead.

    The difference between Orion and durthu is that waterfall palace is safer to the beastmen compared to kings glade, so it is safe to go to norsca early. Orion has to deal with carcassone first until peace out or conquered and then with beastmen and estalia. So for Orion it makes more sense to just conquer carcassone estalia and tilea first

    Do beastmen really provide much of a threat early on if you manually fight the battles if they attack your settlement?

    I know I've beaten their early 20 stacks with just outpost garrisons in past play throughs, which are much weaker than settlement garrisons, and there are always garrison upgrades available if needed too.

    Also, do carcassonne or estalia or tilea ever actually attack kings glade? As far as I can tell, beastmen are the only faction really willing to enter athel loren. Better to make allies of the brettonian factions and use war co-ordination to deal with beastmen I recon, rather than wiping them out.
  • lucibuis#6195lucibuis#6195 Registered Users Posts: 7,168

    lucibuis said:

    I do almost the same as argwylon, but I sack the goblin towns instead.

    The difference between Orion and durthu is that waterfall palace is safer to the beastmen compared to kings glade, so it is safe to go to norsca early. Orion has to deal with carcassone first until peace out or conquered and then with beastmen and estalia. So for Orion it makes more sense to just conquer carcassone estalia and tilea first

    Do beastmen really provide much of a threat early on if you manually fight the battles if they attack your settlement?

    I know I've beaten their early 20 stacks with just outpost garrisons in past play throughs, which are much weaker than settlement garrisons, and there are always garrison upgrades available if needed too.

    Also, do carcassonne or estalia or tilea ever actually attack kings glade? As far as I can tell, beastmen are the only faction really willing to enter athel loren. Better to make allies of the brettonian factions and use war co-ordination to deal with beastmen I recon, rather than wiping them out.
    I'm not sure if the beastmen on higher difficulty can conquer an athel Loren town... I think they might spawn in 2 stacks at a time? Yes carcassone usually doesn't really attack.. however I was attacked by clan angrund once and beastmen coming from the empire.. kings glade is open on both sides
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • bingbangbongbingbangbong Member Registered Users Posts: 684
    lucibuis said:

    lucibuis said:

    I do almost the same as argwylon, but I sack the goblin towns instead.

    The difference between Orion and durthu is that waterfall palace is safer to the beastmen compared to kings glade, so it is safe to go to norsca early. Orion has to deal with carcassone first until peace out or conquered and then with beastmen and estalia. So for Orion it makes more sense to just conquer carcassone estalia and tilea first

    Do beastmen really provide much of a threat early on if you manually fight the battles if they attack your settlement?

    I know I've beaten their early 20 stacks with just outpost garrisons in past play throughs, which are much weaker than settlement garrisons, and there are always garrison upgrades available if needed too.

    Also, do carcassonne or estalia or tilea ever actually attack kings glade? As far as I can tell, beastmen are the only faction really willing to enter athel loren. Better to make allies of the brettonian factions and use war co-ordination to deal with beastmen I recon, rather than wiping them out.
    I'm not sure if the beastmen on higher difficulty can conquer an athel Loren town... I think they might spawn in 2 stacks at a time? Yes carcassone usually doesn't really attack.. however I was attacked by clan angrund once and beastmen coming from the empire.. kings glade is open on both sides
    From what I've seen so far, they sometimes have 2 stacks, but will rarely ever be full. They tend to just use what they spawn with. They always tend to die pretty fast to because the ai declares war on them a lot.
  • bingbangbongbingbangbong Member Registered Users Posts: 684
    Playing as wood elves this time, I just recruited an extra lord at the start and sent Orion up to norsca on turn 2 after giving his non elite troops to the second lord. When I got to northern Kislev (I went east this time) I recruited an extra 6 units giving me 10 in each stack and had conquered my first norscan settlement by turn 18 with perfectly manageable public order in kings glade and a half stack of defenders.

    The only problem is I'm still about 15 turns away from being able to research the anti attrition tech, so I'm choosing to start by colonising the settlements and raiding as I march if needed to avoid taking attrition damage while I get started. As a bonus it means il get lots of amber to spend on tech and upgrades before they all revolt or get razed.
  • lucibuis#6195lucibuis#6195 Registered Users Posts: 7,168

    Playing as wood elves this time, I just recruited an extra lord at the start and sent Orion up to norsca on turn 2 after giving his non elite troops to the second lord. When I got to northern Kislev (I went east this time) I recruited an extra 6 units giving me 10 in each stack and had conquered my first norscan settlement by turn 18 with perfectly manageable public order in kings glade and a half stack of defenders.

    The only problem is I'm still about 15 turns away from being able to research the anti attrition tech, so I'm choosing to start by colonising the settlements and raiding as I march if needed to avoid taking attrition damage while I get started. As a bonus it means il get lots of amber to spend on tech and upgrades before they all revolt or get razed.

    That's another reason why with Orion it's easier to just conquer the south first until the non attrition tech is researched
    Ariel only, no fads allowed.

  • bli-nk#6314bli-nk#6314 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,959


    Do beastmen really provide much of a threat early on if you manually fight the battles if they attack your settlement?

    I know I've beaten their early 20 stacks with just outpost garrisons in past play throughs, which are much weaker than settlement garrisons, and there are always garrison upgrades available if needed too.

    Also, do carcassonne or estalia or tilea ever actually attack kings glade? As far as I can tell, beastmen are the only faction really willing to enter athel loren. Better to make allies of the brettonian factions and use war co-ordination to deal with beastmen I recon, rather than wiping them out.

    I can't remember how it is on vanilla since I haven't played WE in GF without a ton of mods loaded. I know Beastmen spawned but can't remember how many. With the mods I have they spawn 4 stacks every 3 turns. I forgot to turn it off when I played Angrund and the Beastmen razed most of SE map even before Chaos invaded including killing WE and Bretonnia completely.

    Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence in society.” Mark Twain
  • malzekmalzek Registered Users Posts: 92
    MrJade said:

    malzek said:

    you raided your province to build up your money and general rank?

    Yes, as the post-battle loot provided most of my income. Anywhere from 2k-5k a battle.
    malzek said:

    Which building do you need to trade with other elves or Confederate with them?

    Trickster's Masque.
    Thank you for answering my question. Im going start doing that. is it worth having a increase to post battle loot?
  • malzekmalzek Registered Users Posts: 92
    Ichon said:

    malzek said:


    Other then the hero i start out with i didn't get another one unless i recruited one. Building the economy building first. What did you build after that? Getting diplo with Bretonnia would be easy to do.

    The council eventually rewards you with another hero or at least I got another in every campaign so far. Branchwraith due to spells is quite valuable to have in your army but the elf archer hero is just meh. Has some weak in battle bonuses if you keep right next to archers but the campaign uses for that one are usually stronger.

    I am trying to remember exact order with WE because I usually demolish a couple buildings in the first 40 turns.

    1. economy
    2. public order
    3. barracks +1 level
    4. the cavalry building to recruit wild riders then demolish and another garrison or the bonus income building
    5. -barracks + garrison (demolish barracks once you recruited full army)
    6. archer building then demolish for a temple

    Basically King's Glade shouldn't be your main recruitment center but more for campaign benefits. WE can recruit basic unit from outposts and once you conquer other Wood Elf settlements they will have a couple barracks buildings at max level so you can fill higher tiers of 2nd army from those captured settlements.

    I just use the elven archer hero to snip ememy lords. Thanks for explaining that. Im going to try to use that in my playthough.
  • HelhoundHelhound Registered Users Posts: 5,346
    Its worth mentioning that you can realistically auto resolve and conquer all of Athel Loren by turn 20. Autoresolve is the same irrespective of difficulty.

    You start by filling up Orion or Durthas army and attacking the opposing faction right off the bat. So Orion goes after Durtha and vice versa. Fill up a second army while you are doing this note you will go negative in funds so you gotta be quick. Once that second army has 10 units have him join Orion quickly and take out Durtha, or once again the other way around. Use what you gain to rush whichever other welf faction is closer and be sure to fill up army two as well. When you attack one the other declares war as well but for some reason they will neither leave their settlement nor recruit any troops. Once you have 35 total units, should be like turn 11-13, you can autoresolve to win against both remaining welf settlements one after the other. With replenishment accounted for this takes until a mere turn 20 regardless of difficulty, and youll have under your control all your major settlements. Because confederation is for squares. Build economy buildings and roll out with three armies by turn 35.

    Two things to be aware of.....

    1) You did not confederate so you gotta build these settlements up from tier 1. This can be incredibly taxing but with how powerful Welf economy buildings are when stacked (the 20% to neighbors increase buildings can be built in all 4 locals for massive gains) you will hardly notice once the ball gets rolling.

    2) If you are playing on legendary then get ready to turtle. As soon as the last opposing welf city is yours rebellion is gonna come your way in a big way. Note this is basically free money and exp but it will stop you up. The benefits to having all four cities as early as possible far outweigh the cons anyway.
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member Lansing, MIRegistered Users Posts: 7,166
    malzek said:

    Thank you for answering my question. Im going start doing that. is it worth having a increase to post battle loot?

    I think so since you aren't getting the increase ex nihilo, but to get to the Lightning Strike ability.
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