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Beastmen update confirmed

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  • SaurianDruid#4682SaurianDruid#4682 Registered Users Posts: 1,723
    boyfights said:



    My bad too, I'm phone posting and hate using quotes because they're tricky to edit to a reasonable size

    The replenishment thing is another one I see a lot, and I don't mean to single you out, but my feeling based on my campaigns is that beastmen and chaos are not meant to hide and replenish, but rather to merge weaker units and hire new replacements instead so as to minimize the amount of time spent not burning the old world down. Even ignoring the in-game cost of hiding for ten turns, it just doesn't feel like a very chaosy thing to do

    Some people argue that this makes it too hard to attain veteran status, but I call it survival of the fittest B)

    That's kind of my point. You can't do the "Merge and recruit new ones" with a fresh herd because they won't have the necessary buildings right away. Every time you merge you'll be shrinking your herd and need to run back to the first one to get new recruits. I just want to get my second and third herds up and running faster so they can be self sufficient.

    Also on that note, I really wish bestigors didn't take three turns to recruit. It's kind of excessive and slows the whole campaign down.
  • boyfightsboyfights Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,023
    That can be a bit of an issue to be fair, but in my experience the higher tier units really only need to stick around long enough for the brayherd to arrive, at which point you've got access to even better units. Anything else that survives until you can make the proper buildings is gravy :)

    Also agreeing that 3 turns is too many for bestigors, which I'm not sure if I've ever actually bothered recruiting during a campaign. I don't even recruit 2-turn units unless my general absolutely needs to heal before another battle. I wouldn't mind seeing more units brought to single-turn recruitment but at an increased favour cost
    boyfights you are always here to confirmate every spark of originality
    or reason burns or acid bruises anyone,
    stop your gladiator love for agressions.
  • SaurianDruid#4682SaurianDruid#4682 Registered Users Posts: 1,723
    Eh, that is fair. The way it is now is certainly workable. Especially with the moon which is probably my favorite mechanic in the game. Nothing is more satisfying than coming out of a massive battle where you took crippling casualties and then being fully restored the next turn thanks to Morrslieb, ready to ravage the enemy while they are battered and bruised.

    I used the bestigors in my Morghur army, but that army had so many cost effective Chaos Spawn to tank out the damage the bestigors almost never suffered any major casualties so it wasn't an issue. Aside from that I almost only use gors. Two turn units usually aren't an issue because they aren't mainline infantry and can be kept somewhat safe. But three for a unit that I expect will need frequent replacing is too much.
  • MrMecHMrMecH Registered Users Posts: 2,415
    edited July 2017
    They should be use one turn like other infantry. What point of three turn or that match with some lore that I don't know? Also they are nothing special except armour and lower in number per regiment too. The most underdog units :/:/:/

    If cut out missing units offering, Beastmen campaign need to improve at some point. I love how sandbox campaign they have but I don't like straight line like this. Horde building should have more than 10 building type and let player can decide what they want their horde to be. Let made the horde more freedom to customize and more powerful than normal stack with varied buffed building and maybe rework Herdstone mechanic as previous post discussed.
    SHUT UP GIVE US GHORGON!!!!!

  • Lord_XelosLord_Xelos Registered Users Posts: 1,806
    edited July 2017
    obippo said:

    You guys should be thanking those of us who "spam threads whining and asking for stuff" because thanks to those "whiners" now you can enjoy 40 unit battles, a playable chaos faction, minor factions, high elf shields that don't look like cheap plastic, etc.

    You can sit and keep bashing people who give feedback and ask CA to add stuff to the game while you enjoy the fruits of the "whining".

    You are welcome :) .

    Couldn't put it better if I wanted to. Great speech mate!! :)

    Those CA fanboys don't realize that without massive pressure from "whiners" game would be half what it is, and it's far from perfect still.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
    edited July 2017
    The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • SaurianDruid#4682SaurianDruid#4682 Registered Users Posts: 1,723
    It's already common knowledge that if you disband all the units in your main horde you'll get insane income and can then wait a hundred turns to amass a fortune. We just don't use that tactic because it's boring.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • Neolucifer2000Neolucifer2000 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 956
    I will fight for the jabber!!! UNLEASH HIM


    Demand more love for Empire and Beastmen! Playable Middenland with Cult of Ulric! Built-in RoR like Hochland Long Rifles and Knightly orders! Doombull, Wargor, Ghorgon, Jabberslythe, Tuskboar chariot and God-specific Gors! #MakeOldWorldGreatAgain
  • The user and all related content has been deleted.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 23,687
    edited July 2017
    Stop the personal commentary in your posts.
    Post edited by dge1 on
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin/Mark Twain
    “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.”–George Santayana, The Life of Reason, 1905.

  • Aman3712Aman3712 Registered Users Posts: 669
    edited July 2017

    I will fight for the jabber!!! UNLEASH HIM

    What about the Ghorgon?
    The Jabber will make people rip their faces off from going competently insane while coating them with flesh-melting acid, while the Ghorgon will teach the Beastmens' Giant a thing or two about stomping and crushing XD
  • kroghammerkroghammer Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 208

    It's already common knowledge that if you disband all the units in your main horde you'll get insane income and can then wait a hundred turns to amass a fortune. We just don't use that tactic because it's boring.

    Why would anyone do this? There are trainers or programs to cheat. But then again... why have devs stopped putting cheats in their games?
    Team Nippon
  • HircaneHircane Registered Users Posts: 119
    dge1 said:

    Stop the personal commentary in your psots.

    Sorry I dont understand, me or the people who where talking about CA and "whining"?
  • HircaneHircane Registered Users Posts: 119
    boyfights said:

    Maybe I just play a lot more aggressively than most, but that hasn't been my experience at all. The increased upkeep of a fresh herd with high level units is easy to offset with said herd's ability to make income on its own, and I usually consider 5 turns of favour an adequate buffer. It helps if you plan your overall course of attack, and try to make contingency plans in case your primary target becomes unavailable

    CA did a fantastic job of making beastmen play radically different imo, they're a completely unique total war experience and it kills me a little bit every time I read posts about how they should work more like settled factions

    I think they definetifly should NOT work like settled factions. I just think they need a somewhat usefull map inpact which theycan profit on. Like building herdstones to get buffs etc.
  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,437
    edited July 2017
    I dunno, about keeping two full upkeep armies running. Lately I've only played with AI mods and by the mid game ALL settlements are walled and most surviving factions have seriously dangerous stacks. So to keep the favor flowing I'd have to really be able to do continuous path of sieging and sacking cities without delay.

    It's entirely possible, but as a horde you basically eat all you can but grow nothing. With the "vanilla" chaos coming, they are even ruining land you could attack. So maybe I'm too timid when playing but that was my experience, as a choice I never reloaded my campaign after a Ko either, so that didn't help.

    The thing about hordes is that they are fine "events", chaos really feels like tidal wave that other factions try to weaken and weaken till it dies out. I really like this aspect of using your strategic space, with frontier cities paying the cost to stop the brunt of the assault.
    But when you think about what a BM campaign is about what's annoying is either you reach a large enough army to just autoresolve your way through whatever is left or you peters out. Hiding and recruiting is a valid tactic, but at some point there are nations that can whoop your smelly ass. In my last campaign I didn't dare approach WE settlement, for each time the AI saw me, it just brought four high tier armies. Thank Tzeench I could retreat far enough each time.

    --

    Just about the roster, I know the jabber has become a meme, but seriously I don't see the appeal. It's ugly, not in the "horrible monster" sense but as not fitting the army aesthetic at all. The reskin work on giants/spawns is really cool and make these unit blend quite a lot within the army on the opposite. And its rules are really TT tied. There is no such thing as leadership/initiative/toughness tests in TW, so the jabber aura or cockatrix gaze are just damage aura/terror or wind attacks... which wouldn't quite have the same flavor.

    So if they try to add to the roster, fine. But at least the ghorgon is more on point. Even fanmade stuff like the ramhorn could be original , make it work like monster sized chariot.
  • TheOrganKingTheOrganKing Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 990
    uriak said:

    I dunno, about keeping two full upkeep armies running. Lately I've only played with AI mods and by the mid game ALL settlements are walled and most surviving factions have seriously dangerous stacks. So to keep the favor flowing I'd have to really be able to do continuous path of sieging and sacking cities without delay.

    It's entirely possible, but as a horde you basically eat all you can but grow nothing. With the "vanilla" chaos coming, they are even ruining land you could attack. So maybe I'm too timid when playing but that was my experience, as a choice I never reloaded my campaign after a Ko either, so that didn't help.

    Beastmen can get, through enough lord skills, techs and buildings, an actual positive income by Raiding. Especially if you raid in a capital province. Sadly this only helps so much, since unlike the Greenskins, you can't recruit and replenish while raiding.
    uriak said:

    Just about the roster, I know the jabber has become a meme, but seriously I don't see the appeal. It's ugly, not in the "horrible monster" sense but as not fitting the army aesthetic at all. The reskin work on giants/spawns is really cool and make these unit blend quite a lot within the army on the opposite. And its rules are really TT tied. There is no such thing as leadership/initiative/toughness tests in TW, so the jabber aura or cockatrix gaze are just damage aura/terror or wind attacks... which wouldn't quite have the same flavor.

    So if they try to add to the roster, fine. But at least the ghorgon is more on point. Even fanmade stuff like the ramhorn could be original , make it work like monster sized chariot.

    The Jabber is very much embodies the Awe part of Beastmen Shock and Awe tactics, which is pretty much the only tactic they have left after the Ambush tactic got completely gutted in everything but the Campaign only beastpath ambushes.

    I do agree that I'd rather see the Ghorgon. The Jabber would certainly be a usefull and incredibly unique looking monster. I disagree about it not fitting Aesthetically, since it certainly fits the horrifying monsters hiding in the dark half of the Beastmen Aesthetic, But it certainly doesn't fit as well as the Giant 4 armed Minotaur does.

    Also the Ramhorn isn't really fanmade. It never had a model, but as a creature it is straight out of the Army book as the Beastmens Primary and most reliable way of Breaking through fortress gates, Since it is pretty much a Mammoth sized Ram.
    "Chaos strong. Gors strong. Humans, Elves, Dwarf — weak. We win. We fight, we kill, one day we win. One day soon. You — if you lucky, we eat you, make you into part of us, make you better than you, stronger than any of you, stronger than all of you. Once this arm weak, like you. I eat many of your kind, now I strong."
    —Karzog, Beastigor Charioteer.
  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,437
    edited July 2017
    Actually the "awe" part works quite well. In my campaign I was playing Malagor, and when you combine a charge, his negative leadership aura and traits, devolve and maybe a terror inducing unit, you can see their lines breaking in a sweet fashion.

    One thing that annoys me, is how they can use lore of beasts to conjure a Manticore, but can't field one. I don't think it was featured in their army book (but weren't things like trolls and dragon ogre?) It could works as a T4 flying moster, just put it into the chaos hounds/spawn building chain. It wouldn't be the jabber but at least part of the role would be filled.
  • SaurianDruid#4682SaurianDruid#4682 Registered Users Posts: 1,723
    uriak said:


    The thing about hordes is that they are fine "events", chaos really feels like tidal wave that other factions try to weaken and weaken till it dies out. I really like this aspect of using your strategic space, with frontier cities paying the cost to stop the brunt of the assault.
    But when you think about what a BM campaign is about what's annoying is either you reach a large enough army to just autoresolve your way through whatever is left or you peters out. Hiding and recruiting is a valid tactic, but at some point there are nations that can whoop your smelly ass. In my last campaign I didn't dare approach WE settlement, for each time the AI saw me, it just brought four high tier armies. Thank Tzeench I could retreat far enough each time.

    Wood Elves can be a tough nut to crack. The tactic I ended up doing was having my main herd lead the elven armies away from Athel Loren on a goose chase, then have my second pop into the forest via the Beastpaths and begin a rampage that spawned a brayherd. Then when the elves started turning around my main army lightning striked three of their armies in one turn, which the Lunar event occurring to replenish that army back to full, and the remnants of their forces weren't enough to stop me once the two armies and their respective brayherds combined in a final assault.

    The second full upkeep army was invaluable. I doubt I'd be able to do much of anything to the Wood Elves with a single warherd.
  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,437
    edited July 2017
    Nice tactic, the kind of thing Khazrak would approve!

    To be honest, in this campaign I was playing coop with VC. While we had some nice moments, like an epic shodown with archaon By the end of the campaign I was bored of my tiny turns, (I spent a moment to rase Norsca) so we just stopped once the victory condition was met rather than face the last two remaining power players, WE and dwarfs.

    Since the flc is coming, I'm no rush to play them again.
  • Krunch#7448Krunch#7448 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,478
    Did CA ever say why they absolutely gutted Vanguard deployment by the way? It is so **** now it is just dumb. It's basically just a way to deploy a little bit closer to the enemy. You can't deploy behind your enemy save for a unit or two in the very back corners, and since flanking and ambushing is a major part of Beastmen and Wood Elf tactics it's kind of a big deal.
  • B1ing3rmanB1ing3rman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 357
    Yeah trully.
    There is any mod that corrects the vanguard deployment?
  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,437
    How did it work previously?
  • whatever_whatever_ Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 411
    uriak said:

    How did it work previously?

    you had a bigger box where you were able to vanguard deploy. basically you could fit whole army behind enemy lines and now you are luck if you can unit or two.
  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 4,437
    I see. Depending on the forest cover, the current vanguard can still be useful, but clearly the main perk of the beastmen is their powerful attack ambush move.
  • TheOrganKingTheOrganKing Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 990
    Krunch said:

    Did CA ever say why they absolutely gutted Vanguard deployment by the way? It is so **** now it is just dumb. It's basically just a way to deploy a little bit closer to the enemy. You can't deploy behind your enemy save for a unit or two in the very back corners, and since flanking and ambushing is a major part of Beastmen and Wood Elf tactics it's kind of a big deal.

    I don't think they've ever said why. I'm 99% sure it Happened in the same patch that Vlad came out, because his Campaign mechanic gives his entire army Vanguard Deploy. Since Having an entire VC army Vanguard Deploy is ridiculously broken, they nerfed Vanguard. That's the best. It's something I've asked to get fixed ever since, because it's barely useful, and even then only on half the maps.
    "Chaos strong. Gors strong. Humans, Elves, Dwarf — weak. We win. We fight, we kill, one day we win. One day soon. You — if you lucky, we eat you, make you into part of us, make you better than you, stronger than any of you, stronger than all of you. Once this arm weak, like you. I eat many of your kind, now I strong."
    —Karzog, Beastigor Charioteer.
  • Aman3712Aman3712 Registered Users Posts: 669
    I don’t necessarily want the Ghorgon or Jabber just because of them being big, scary monsters or them being “iconic” in any way. Rather, I’d like to see them in not only because I want to see what CA could do with them, but also because I feel that they would bring some interesting game play for both campaign and multiplayer.

    Jabberslythe: Though not as strong as a Giant, Cygor or Ghorgon, the Jabberslythe does have a variety of other abilities; it can fly (CA could make it’s wings bigger if they do add it in), shoot projectiles, cause wounds when it gets wounded, thunder stomp and drives enemy units insane with it’s presence alone. It's clear that this unit is not meant to be used as a monster killer, but rather a unit for dealing with light/medium infantry. As such, I can imagine players sending this monster in alongside their infantry to break the enemy’s infantry line, debuffing them with its aura while inflicting wounds as the enemy infantry attacks it. I’d like to think of it as a living, breathing Mortis Engine; though rather than healing allies, it debuffs enemies by making them go insane.

    Ghorgon: Like many others, I like to think of the Ghorgon as being a Giant on steroids. On TT, this monster is quite scary and, under the right circumstances, can cause a lot of carnage, but requires careful use. The Ghorgon is a unit that, if used correctly, can operate entirely self-sufficient (even Jabberslythes and Cygors need general or unit backup, the Giant is the other) and could make an excellent flanker.

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