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The Concept of The Marks Of Chaos

ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
edited July 2017 in General Discussion
There are some that don't care for details and aesthetics, so please pay this thread no mind if you don't have interest in concept and design. :smile:

If CA ever gives us the ability to mark Chosen or the Warriors of chaos there is something that always loomed in my mind on how they would do it. Rather two things: Make it a boring banner and that's it, or make a banner and re-paint according to the color rep of each chaos god.

Have any one of you seen how boring that is? You look up warriors of _insert dark god here_ and sometimes get warriors or Chosen painted Red, pink, green, or blue depending on the concept. I think CA would do a Re-skin, in which modders already do a good enough job on for free.

So here is my suggestions and request for the potential of marks of chaos. In fact, it's entirely about concept and design, and I'm pretty much anti-repaint and anti-cartoon, and I'm all for a quality re-skin.

Nurgle
Instead of green Chosen, how about this concept?

Slaanesh
Instead of pink Chosen......

Khorne
Instead of red Chosen

Tzeentch
Instead of blue Chosen


That is what marks of chaos do. It dramatically alters a person in the likeness of a particular dark god and gives them very good buffs in different ways. This may or may not require new animations, but as far as I'm concerned all I would suggest is quality. CA artists and model designers and animators have shown that they are capable of quality designs.

This is all off the possibility that CA makes the marks actually affect the unit and have the unit resemble it's mark and new combat ability. This may not be likely, but if in fact the Marks are planned, I think quality designs aught to be planned as well, instead of red or blue edgelord cartoon characters.

Thoughts?
«1

Comments

  • RandomTagRandomTag Posts: 1,479Registered Users
    Only likely in game 3, I'm afraid...
  • FifthOfSpaghettiFifthOfSpaghetti Posts: 1,629Registered Users
    I would much prefer Chaos Warriors middles after their god. The Slaanesh and Tzeench ones especially.

    Tzeench a gilded monolith writhing in energy, blue armour with gold highlights and very Egyptian. Or simply like the one you shown images of. The chaos divided mod on the workshop does a great Tzeench Chaos Warrior.

    I do like the sexualized horror theme that Slaanesh brings. Sex, Drugs, Rock and Roll, and all that. It's edgy, and cool. Like the Alien series the imagery used should make you uncomfortable, which is cool. Slaanesh is all about excess and things should be excessively freaky, such is Slaanesh.

    Notably whilst playing 40k I had one of the largest - that I heard of- Dark Eldar army, so I might have a thing for such a theme.
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    RandomTag
    I don't mind if it's in game 1 ,2 or 3.

    I'm talking about the concept and design of the Marks of chaos. This is a suggestion on how I would prefer it.
    Maybe I'm not the only one who would like a qualtiy reskin of Chosen IF they get the marks.
  • Arcani_4_EverArcani_4_Ever Junior Member Posts: 2,272Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    i do wish there is a Chaos progression system for the current units.

    From Marauder to Chaos Warrior to Chosen to Aspiring Champions.

    And once Part 3 is introduced you add the Marks of Chaos.

    And you can turn to Daemon Warriors or a specific Daemon Warrior of a God like Bloodletters of Khorne.

    Would make the progression a lot of fun.
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users

    I would much prefer Chaos Warriors middles after their god. The Slaanesh and Tzeench ones especially.

    Tzeench a gilded monolith writhing in energy, blue armour with gold highlights and very Egyptian. Or simply like the one you shown images of. The chaos divided mod on the workshop does a great Tzeench Chaos Warrior.

    I do like the sexualized horror theme that Slaanesh brings. Sex, Drugs, Rock and Roll, and all that. It's edgy, and cool. Like the Alien series the imagery used should make you uncomfortable, which is cool. Slaanesh is all about excess and things should be excessively freaky, such is Slaanesh.

    Notably whilst playing 40k I had one of the largest - that I heard of- Dark Eldar army, so I might have a thing for such a theme.

    Pretty much in agreement with that. You forgot torture and regret though lol
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    edited July 2017

    i do wish there is a Chaos progression system for the current units.

    From Marauder to Chaos Warrior to Chosen to Aspiring Champions.

    And once Part 3 is introduced you add the Marks of Chaos.

    And you can turn to Daemon Warriors or a specific Daemon Warrior of a God like Bloodletters of Khorne.

    Would make the progression a lot of fun.

    Guess what?

    It can be done with an altered system from Rome 2. (The upgrade system) Where you could pay money to upgrade a unit if
    it was high enough level I believe.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 20,647Registered Users
    I wondered in another thread if the endgame mechanic for Norsca meant getting marked Warriors, I really hope this is coming, at least to spice the WoC campaign up.

  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 2,009Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    What's wrong with pink Chosen? :lol:

    Nah I agree. I hope CA gets the aesthetics right. Well not "right" but detailed, gritty, and scary looking rather than bland and cartoonish.
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 2,009Registered Users
    This guy knows what's up

  • Ghengisk_KhanGhengisk_Khan Posts: 263Registered Users
    I've heard so many complain that expansion 3 being focused on chaos is dull. This thread shows why i think it won't be. I'm hoping that each god will have their own unique faction and WoC (chaos undivided) will be able to pull at least in some degree from all 4. Nurgle chosen should look differnet from Khorne chosen and have differnet stats. Not to mention the different god specific demons etc...
  • SultschiemSultschiem Posts: 1,629Registered Users
    Well it depends....
    keep in mind that a lot of units in the roster can get the marks... making 4 variations for each is a bit much for that feature, no?

    Would rather see colored variations like they did it in call to warhammer than not getting them because of effort. Would make the chaos warriors much more fun to play.
  • uriakuriak Posts: 3,421Registered Users

    I've heard so many complain that expansion 3 being focused on chaos is dull. This thread shows why i think it won't be. I'm hoping that each god will have their own unique faction and WoC (chaos undivided) will be able to pull at least in some degree from all 4. Nurgle chosen should look differnet from Khorne chosen and have differnet stats. Not to mention the different god specific demons etc...

    Chaos marks are a nice element, that adds specialization and roleplay, but in the end it's still variation of the same units.
    As for the game 3, it's a hard sell for people who would like to play "nice" factions. Game 1 was empire+dwarfs , game 2 will be high elves and lizardmen. And game 3? Kislev is a minor faction, and daemons/ogres/chaos dwarfs/updated CW are pretty mush all in the chaos/evil theme.

  • Ghengisk_KhanGhengisk_Khan Posts: 263Registered Users

    Well it depends....
    keep in mind that a lot of units in the roster can get the marks... making 4 variations for each is a bit much for that feature, no?

    Would rather see colored variations like they did it in call to warhammer than not getting them because of effort. Would make the chaos warriors much more fun to play.

    I'm not suggesting anything be cut but it would be great to see at least some of the shared units look different. Chosen being my example. They should have some variance in stats also.
    uriak said:

    I've heard so many complain that expansion 3 being focused on chaos is dull. This thread shows why i think it won't be. I'm hoping that each god will have their own unique faction and WoC (chaos undivided) will be able to pull at least in some degree from all 4. Nurgle chosen should look differnet from Khorne chosen and have differnet stats. Not to mention the different god specific demons etc...

    Chaos marks are a nice element, that adds specialization and roleplay, but in the end it's still variation of the same units.
    As for the game 3, it's a hard sell for people who would like to play "nice" factions. Game 1 was empire+dwarfs , game 2 will be high elves and lizardmen. And game 3? Kislev is a minor faction, and daemons/ogres/chaos dwarfs/updated CW are pretty mush all in the chaos/evil theme.

    I get that some only play nice races but this approach would give them a much more interesting enemy on the combined map and make the chaos invasion at the end of every game that much more challenging.
  • Red_DoxRed_Dox Junior Member Posts: 2,377Registered Users
    I hope that marks would lead to different skins and suitable changes. But I fear we should prepare for the lazy road on this, leading to





    There might be better chances for Lords/heroes instead of the rank & file Chaos Warriors. And if we getting real lucky maybe also changes in city architecture or the worldmap Chaos influence depending on the chosen god.
    It would be interesting if the Norsca shrines have visual effects on their troops, that could then be a sneak peak to the WoC future.

    -----Red dox
  • KhorneFlakesKhorneFlakes Posts: 3,373Registered Users

    Well it depends....
    keep in mind that a lot of units in the roster can get the marks... making 4 variations for each is a bit much for that feature, no?

    Would rather see colored variations like they did it in call to warhammer than not getting them because of effort. Would make the chaos warriors much more fun to play.

    well you can say the same about any other units in other roster.just being variation of just a melee

    Balance Is A Lie

  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Posts: 1,767Registered Users
    Yeah I think each Chaos God will get some unique units to its roster, but same units will probably all look the same.

    Just because it's not like they're making each Chaos God its own race. It will probably just be like selecting a different faction leader for the same race.

    I don't see them giving each faction the same level of unique art design that they normally would dedicate to a race. Physically possible I guess, but not likely.





  • Ghengisk_KhanGhengisk_Khan Posts: 263Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    I'm thinking they could make each chaos god its own race. The grand campaign could be about the infighting with the end being a chaos undivided after you've subdued the other chaos gods. If they do it this way i see no reason not to make each unit for each god have its own visual appeal. Then ogres / chaos dwarves / Kislev could be race packs.

    This would do justice to one of the most popular WH factions.
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Posts: 1,767Registered Users

    I'm thinking they could make each chaos god its own race. The grand campaign could be about the infighting with the end being a chaos undivided after you've subdued the other chaos gods. If they do it this way i see no reason not to make each unit for each god have its own visual appeal. Then ogres / chaos dwarves / Kislev could be race packs.

    This would do justice to one of the most popular WH factions.

    IF they made each god its own race, then yeah, I would imagine they would make each of the units unique.

    But think about it....if each god is a separate race...does that mean game 3 ONLY launches with 4 Chaos races? That would not sell very many copies.

    Or do you think they will release THREE Chaos race DLC's/FLC's over the course of game 3 to fill in for the one it launched with? Also very limiting in terms of DLC sales for people who want something else.

    Or do you really think game 3 is going to launch to SEVEN races? really? highly unlikely.

    The most likely scenario is that each god is simply going to be a different faction within 1 race. Meaning there will be a lot of shared/overlapping art/models/units.
  • Ghengisk_KhanGhengisk_Khan Posts: 263Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    You definately make valid points.

    I do believe WH3 starting with 4 chaos factions with a campaign mechanic geared around unifying chaos for an impending chaos invasion would work and it would sell well. Adding Chaos dwarves, Ogre Kingdoms and Kislev in as FLC/DLC at some point would also help. I see the added campaigns being a fun side diversion but im thinking the real driving force behind these sales are the combined grand campaign.

    What other story line would fit better with a game that chaos focused to begin with? Lets say the starting races are Chaos Dwarves, Ogre Kingdoms, DoC and say one other faction. What would the 4th faction be? What would an interesting campaign mechanic be for these 4 races. WH2 has a great backdrop with the vortex but i don't see WH3 having such a stellar focal piont. I mean there's the demon gate but no real "good" races feature in that expansion. It makes the most sense to me and seems the most interesting to make the Chaos gods each their own faction and have a campaign for unification. I think this would sell just as well as WH2 is going to. Just my 2 cents.

    Look at the Campaigns in WH2 and WH3 as glorified race pack scenarios. The real fun is to be had on the combined Grand Campaign.
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Posts: 3,861Registered Users

    There are some that don't care for details and aesthetics, so please pay this thread no mind if you don't have interest in concept and design. :smile:

    If CA ever gives us the ability to mark Chosen or the Warriors of chaos there is something that always loomed in my mind on how they would do it. Rather two things: Make it a boring banner and that's it, or make a banner and re-paint according to the color rep of each chaos god.

    Have any one of you seen how boring that is? You look up warriors of _insert dark god here_ and sometimes get warriors or Chosen painted Red, pink, green, or blue depending on the concept. I think CA would do a Re-skin, in which modders already do a good enough job on for free.

    So here is my suggestions and request for the potential of marks of chaos. In fact, it's entirely about concept and design, and I'm pretty much anti-repaint and anti-cartoon, and I'm all for a quality re-skin.

    Nurgle
    Instead of green Chosen, how about this concept?


    Slaanesh
    Instead of pink Chosen......

    Khorne
    Instead of red Chosen

    Tzeentch
    Instead of blue Chosen


    That is what marks of chaos do. It dramatically alters a person in the likeness of a particular dark god and gives them very good buffs in different ways. This may or may not require new animations, but as far as I'm concerned all I would suggest is quality. CA artists and model designers and animators have shown that they are capable of quality designs.

    This is all off the possibility that CA makes the marks actually affect the unit and have the unit resemble it's mark and new combat ability. This may not be likely, but if in fact the Marks are planned, I think quality designs aught to be planned as well, instead of red or blue edgelord cartoon characters.

    Thoughts?
    Yes please.
  • SaurianDruidSaurianDruid Posts: 922Registered Users
    Something to consider. There's no hard limit that says game three can ONLY launch with four races. Since the Chaos God factions would invariably share models with both each other and the current Warriors of Chaos roster, or simply have comparatively small rosters, the money saved on making them could easily go to adding a fifth faction like Kislev or the Ogre Kingdoms, or even both. After all, game 1 launched with four full rosters and half the Bretonnian roster on day one, plus the Warriors of Chaos roster. Game 3 will be the last game, so I can easily see them throwing in more content than the last two had.

    One mechanic they could do if they go with smaller rosters for the Chaos Gods is to have Chaos become a sort of combined super faction. Each Chaos faction can conquer the others and then add their units to themselves. So playing as Archaon you'd have to go around and beat down the other chaos factions to become a true Chaos Undivided army, or you can take a champion of Khorne and gain control of the other Chaos Factions and force them to submit to your rule. Then once you have the full power of Chaos at your back you come down from the north and shatter Kislev.

    So Game 3 could have:
    Nurgle's Plaguefriends, Tzeentch's Pawns, The Khorneflakes, The Lusty Slaaneshi Maids, Kislev, and Ogre Kingdoms.

    Then add Chaos Dwarfs and maybe Dogs of War (As a mercenary roster they can be a sort of "good aligned Horde" faction that sells their services to other factions using a Mercenary mechanic introduced with Ogre Kingdoms) as DLC. Tilea, Estalia, and Border Princes can use a Dogs of War roster on the grand campaign once they are added.
  • RandomTagRandomTag Posts: 1,479Registered Users



    So Game 3 could have:
    Nurgle's Plaguefriends, Tzeentch's Pawns, The Khorneflakes, The Lusty Slaaneshi Maids

    Glorious :D
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    There's some good points here.

    Just by shear detail and art direction of the model it would need maybe some new recorded audio just to get the feel right . There would maybe have to be new idle, charging, and walking animations to also get the feel of the unit down. Even new attack animations.
    All this basically making enough content for a new race.

    But here's the thing. The Chaos marks are such an integral part of the Warriors of Chaos function and uniqueness, that I think it would be completely worth it in the end to implement all that exclusive to the WoC.

    I agree, that a re-paint would do the job, as far as making it simple, quick and easy (lazy way). But when the Devs are really passionate about something they've shown that they like the hard way. And the hard way is their fun way, which is new attack animations, new idle, charging, and walking animations, and new audio recordings.

    But if the artists, modelers, and animators can take the suggestions above and make it work as a re-skin, more power to them! :smile:
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 2,009Registered Users

    There's some good points here.

    Just by shear detail and art direction of the model it would need maybe some new recorded audio just to get the feel right . There would maybe have to be new idle, charging, and walking animations to also get the feel of the unit down. Even new attack animations.
    All this basically making enough content for a new race.

    But here's the thing. The Chaos marks are such an integral part of the Warriors of Chaos function and uniqueness, that I think it would be completely worth it in the end to implement all that exclusive to the WoC.

    I agree, that a re-paint would do the job, as far as making it simple, quick and easy (lazy way). But when the Devs are really passionate about something they've shown that they like the hard way. And the hard way is their fun way, which is new attack animations, new idle, charging, and walking animations, and new audio recordings.

    But if the artists, modelers, and animators can take the suggestions above and make it work as a re-skin, more power to them! :smile:

    yeah , just don't listen to guy who thought re-coloring the Chaos dragon and calling it a frost wyrm was a good idea lol
  • uriakuriak Posts: 3,421Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    There is a lot of wishful thinking at play here. They can't put the ressources to make several factions just into chaos warrior design. Because they are only ONE faction and roster in the end. I'd rather have quite complete rosters for DoC and CD too, thanks. And that's even just considering they are all "chaos" factions and there is absolutely a need to get something for the people who don't bother with or even dislike chaos.

    Campaign wise, there is the fact that both WoC and DoC will stay "horde like" and thus won't have the appeal of territorial factions at all. This is to say they will certainly enrich their roster and gameplay and try to come up with interesting things to do with them, but they can't and shouldn't hope they can base an entire third game on this concept. The fact that WoC were a DLC is even more of a conundrum, because I don't see how they couldn't not include them in game 3 AND make a lot of new stuff for something already paid for.

    The frost wyrm is like it is, because they made models for giants, mammoths, fimirs, ice trolls, and skinwolves. They could have used the sundragon model, perhaps (if it fits the game 1 engine) or since they decided to reuse assets they went for the "let's use the already chaotic dragon"

  • KhorneFlakesKhorneFlakes Posts: 3,373Registered Users
    edited July 2017
    some rambling and ideas :

    so you have 4 meters on top for four chaos gods

    now you have the option to increase the individual meter to increase the each specific meter by doing certain actions

    like you have the option to instalal 4 different monolith of chaos specific to each god
    e.g, if you install khorne's monolith your khorne meter goes up etc...

    not only that there are differnet multiple ways to increase the meter to multiple campaign or battle mechaincs related to each god like monster hunt mechanic would increase khorne's meter
    an option to torutre/attrition your army increases slannesh meter
    making peace and delcaring just too abrupt changes increase tzeentch meter
    lower killing means ,khornem eter goes down...etch
    and also then gods reward and punish for this

    now the main thing is you have to balance them out if not then if you favor one or 2 gods compared other then they try to send daemon army against you or sabotage you in some way ..
    edit : also god specific main objectives an archaon's objective too

    Balance Is A Lie

  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 2,009Registered Users
    uriak said:

    There is a lot of wishful thinking at play here. They can't put the ressources to make several factions just into chaos warrior design. Because they are only ONE faction and roster in the end. I'd rather have quite complete rosters for DoC and CD too, thanks. And that's even just considering they are all "chaos" factions and there is absolutely a need to get something for the people who don't bother with or even dislike chaos.

    Campaign wise, there is the fact that both WoC and DoC will stay "horde like" and thus won't have the appeal of territorial factions at all. This is to say they will certainly enrich their roster and gameplay and try to come up with interesting things to do with them, but they can't and shouldn't hope they can base an entire third game on this concept. The fact that WoC were a DLC is even more of a conundrum, because I don't see how they couldn't not include them in game 3 AND make a lot of new stuff for something already paid for.

    The frost wyrm is like it is, because they made models for giants, mammoths, fimirs, ice trolls, and skinwolves. They could have used the sundragon model, perhaps (if it fits the game 1 engine) or since they decided to reuse assets they went for the "let's use the already chaotic dragon"

    Well we are wishing for this to happen. The chaos marks are the bread and butter of the playstyle, mind as well go all in on it. For game 3, I can see this happening no problem.

    Regarding chaos dlc: I don't know of anyone who would complain about getting more stuff in something already paid for.

    All the work that goes into DoC can go into the WoC. (shared assets) It's what CA likes to do apparently. So the Chosen with marks might share assets with something from the DoC roster. Whether it be animations to abilities. But I definitely agree with the OP, that at least give a great re-skin on them.
  • ZerglesZergles Member Posts: 3,011Registered Users
    You know what i think may happen?

    They'll make marked Chosen into RoR.
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    Zergles said:

    You know what i think may happen?

    They'll make marked Chosen into RoR.

    As that might sound fairly reasonable, I hope not. Because that would mean my suggestions above wouldn't have been taken into consideration :smile: . It would probably be expected that they would be green, pink, red, and blue re-colors, instead of intricate re-skins, or different models entirely too.

    I say that because, I think Chaos is getting RoR soon just like Norsca and Beastmen. So the whole "make them super awesome" would be too late. But that doesn't mean RoR is automatically marked Chosen, because they may be dead set on saving that for game 3.

    Although it's not a bad idea. I like Arcani_4_Ever's idea of a progression system too.
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 2,009Registered Users

    some rambling and ideas :

    so you have 4 meters on top for four chaos gods

    now you have the option to increase the individual meter to increase the each specific meter by doing certain actions

    like you have the option to instalal 4 different monolith of chaos specific to each god
    e.g, if you install khorne's monolith your khorne meter goes up etc...

    not only that there are differnet multiple ways to increase the meter to multiple campaign or battle mechaincs related to each god like monster hunt mechanic would increase khorne's meter
    an option to torutre/attrition your army increases slannesh meter
    making peace and delcaring just too abrupt changes increase tzeentch meter
    lower killing means ,khornem eter goes down...etch
    and also then gods reward and punish for this

    now the main thing is you have to balance them out if not then if you favor one or 2 gods compared other then they try to send daemon army against you or sabotage you in some way ..
    edit : also god specific main objectives an archaon's objective too

    or this ? lol
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/193696/warriors-of-chaos-campaign-redone-devs-are-very-welcome-to-express-thoughts/p1
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