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The Dark Elf contraversy

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  • SindrissSindriss Registered Users Posts: 448
    edited July 2017

    If anyone here comes from an ancient magical warrior race I'll consider your argument on how armor should be shaped. Until then I have to assume the Dark Elves know what they're doing.

    I said before practical or not it seems to be only a problem when it comes female armour/clothing. I see no complain with anywhere near much zeal about ridiculous ornaments on armors or big ass helms

    That's because Warhammer fans love the absurd armor designs... until it comes to females, then all the historical armor purists crawl out of the woodwork. Having a whole faction of topless muscle men is fine though.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Registered Users Posts: 4,102
    edited July 2017

    Ranger275 said:

    Just like our female soldiers and marines have boob Kevlar and boob steel or ceramic plates. Oh, wait...

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2012/0709/Army-uses-Xena-Warrior-Princess-as-inspiration-for-new-body-armor-for-women

    Now don't you feel silly?
    Did you read the article?
    "'Some people would like to eventually make plates so it’s like ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and conforms to the shape' of female soldiers, he adds." --The title is just a sensationalized headline to get you to read the article. Clickbait if you will.

    "'Yet there are engineering challenges. The more curves the plates have, the heavier they get. It also creates potential weaknesses in the armor, like creasing a paper,' Lozano explains. 'There are some complex curvatures that come into play with female hard-armor plates,” he says. “I could make female hard armor, but it would be twice as heavy.'"--Adding curves to the plates makes them less effective.

    "Now, the Army is testing eight additional sizes made specifically for women, with, among other changes, more-narrow shoulders and “bra-shaped darting” in the chest."--Essentially just some resizing, no mention of Xena type breast plate.

    That article is from 4 years ago. I joined the Marines before that article came out. I still have not seen female specific body armor of the type this article talks about.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Registered Users Posts: 1,203

    Sindriss said:

    I certainly don't want our Dreadlords running around in modern marine bodyarmor... Ceremonial Dark Elven plate will do just fine. Remember it's just a game. It doesn't have to be the most practical armor ever invented, it just has to look cool.

    She isn't just wearing plate I recently noticed the Scalemail coming from under her shirt that's covering the scalemail but under the Plate armour. Which seems a tad odd considering you would put the clothing under the armour all together so it wouldn't rub against the wearer.
    Flexible armor like scale or mail wouldn't be worn under plate. It would look more like this with mail only covering body parts not protected by plate:




  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Registered Users Posts: 1,203
    ben8vtedu said:

    Ranger275 said:

    Just like our female soldiers and marines have boob Kevlar and boob steel or ceramic plates. Oh, wait...

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2012/0709/Army-uses-Xena-Warrior-Princess-as-inspiration-for-new-body-armor-for-women

    Now don't you feel silly?
    Did you read the article?
    "'Some people would like to eventually make plates so it’s like ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and conforms to the shape' of female soldiers, he adds." --The title is just a sensationalized headline to get you to read the article. Clickbait if you will.

    "'Yet there are engineering challenges. The more curves the plates have, the heavier they get. It also creates potential weaknesses in the armor, like creasing a paper,' Lozano explains. 'There are some complex curvatures that come into play with female hard-armor plates,” he says. “I could make female hard armor, but it would be twice as heavy.'"--Adding curves to the plates makes them less effective.

    "Now, the Army is testing eight additional sizes made specifically for women, with, among other changes, more-narrow shoulders and “bra-shaped darting” in the chest."--Essentially just some resizing, no mention of Xena type breast plate.

    That article is from 4 years ago. I joined the Marines before that article came out. I still have not seen female specific body armor.
    Yes, obviously.

    "“Some people would like to eventually make plates so it’s like ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and conforms to the shape” of female soldiers, he adds."

    "Now, the Army is testing eight additional sizes made specifically for women, with, among other changes, more-narrow shoulders and “bra-shaped darting” in the chest.

    Some 100 women of the 101st Airborne Division, who will soon be headed to Afghanistan, are testing them and have given positive early feedback. “They say, ‘I could wear this all day,’ ‘I could run a marathon in this,’ and ‘It feels much lighter,’ even though it really isn’t any lighter,” Lozano says."

    R&D takes a long time. Then you still have trials that can take years before new kit is approved for use.

    Also, it's an article about the army. The Marines are pretty much always dead last to get the latest kit.
  • Ranger275Ranger275 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 161

    Ranger275 said:

    Just like our female soldiers and marines have boob Kevlar and boob steel or ceramic plates. Oh, wait...

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2012/0709/Army-uses-Xena-Warrior-Princess-as-inspiration-for-new-body-armor-for-women

    Now don't you feel silly?
    No, because I've spent years in various body armor platforms utilizing different ballistic plates, all in various weather conditions. Because of this, and the nature of steel, ceramic, and titanium plates, I can tell you that "Xena" boob armor would be ridiculous.

    The military is also working on exoskeleton suits for infantrymen, which I can immediately disregard and laugh about.
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,575

    ben8vtedu said:

    Ranger275 said:

    Just like our female soldiers and marines have boob Kevlar and boob steel or ceramic plates. Oh, wait...

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2012/0709/Army-uses-Xena-Warrior-Princess-as-inspiration-for-new-body-armor-for-women

    Now don't you feel silly?
    Did you read the article?
    "'Some people would like to eventually make plates so it’s like ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and conforms to the shape' of female soldiers, he adds." --The title is just a sensationalized headline to get you to read the article. Clickbait if you will.

    "'Yet there are engineering challenges. The more curves the plates have, the heavier they get. It also creates potential weaknesses in the armor, like creasing a paper,' Lozano explains. 'There are some complex curvatures that come into play with female hard-armor plates,” he says. “I could make female hard armor, but it would be twice as heavy.'"--Adding curves to the plates makes them less effective.

    "Now, the Army is testing eight additional sizes made specifically for women, with, among other changes, more-narrow shoulders and “bra-shaped darting” in the chest."--Essentially just some resizing, no mention of Xena type breast plate.

    That article is from 4 years ago. I joined the Marines before that article came out. I still have not seen female specific body armor.
    Yes, obviously.

    "“Some people would like to eventually make plates so it’s like ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and conforms to the shape” of female soldiers, he adds."

    "Now, the Army is testing eight additional sizes made specifically for women, with, among other changes, more-narrow shoulders and “bra-shaped darting” in the chest.

    Some 100 women of the 101st Airborne Division, who will soon be headed to Afghanistan, are testing them and have given positive early feedback. “They say, ‘I could wear this all day,’ ‘I could run a marathon in this,’ and ‘It feels much lighter,’ even though it really isn’t any lighter,” Lozano says."

    R&D takes a long time. Then you still have trials that can take years before new kit is approved for use.

    Also, it's an article about the army. The Marines are pretty much always dead last to get the latest kit.
    Nice find on the article. Its a breath of fresh air to see a few people around here trying to actually prove their point rather than just **** on the presumed opposing view.
  • Ranger275Ranger275 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 161

    Ranger275 said:

    Just like our female soldiers and marines have boob Kevlar and boob steel or ceramic plates. Oh, wait...

    As a young male in the military, the women in uniform can be a little too shapely sometimes....

    ...but maybe that's just me

    It's just you. Haha
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Registered Users Posts: 4,102

    ben8vtedu said:

    Ranger275 said:

    Just like our female soldiers and marines have boob Kevlar and boob steel or ceramic plates. Oh, wait...

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2012/0709/Army-uses-Xena-Warrior-Princess-as-inspiration-for-new-body-armor-for-women

    Now don't you feel silly?
    Did you read the article?
    "'Some people would like to eventually make plates so it’s like ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and conforms to the shape' of female soldiers, he adds." --The title is just a sensationalized headline to get you to read the article. Clickbait if you will.

    "'Yet there are engineering challenges. The more curves the plates have, the heavier they get. It also creates potential weaknesses in the armor, like creasing a paper,' Lozano explains. 'There are some complex curvatures that come into play with female hard-armor plates,” he says. “I could make female hard armor, but it would be twice as heavy.'"--Adding curves to the plates makes them less effective.

    "Now, the Army is testing eight additional sizes made specifically for women, with, among other changes, more-narrow shoulders and “bra-shaped darting” in the chest."--Essentially just some resizing, no mention of Xena type breast plate.

    That article is from 4 years ago. I joined the Marines before that article came out. I still have not seen female specific body armor.
    Yes, obviously.

    "“Some people would like to eventually make plates so it’s like ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and conforms to the shape” of female soldiers, he adds."

    "Now, the Army is testing eight additional sizes made specifically for women, with, among other changes, more-narrow shoulders and “bra-shaped darting” in the chest.

    Some 100 women of the 101st Airborne Division, who will soon be headed to Afghanistan, are testing them and have given positive early feedback. “They say, ‘I could wear this all day,’ ‘I could run a marathon in this,’ and ‘It feels much lighter,’ even though it really isn’t any lighter,” Lozano says."

    R&D takes a long time. Then you still have trials that can take years before new kit is approved for use.

    Also, it's an article about the army. The Marines are pretty much always dead last to get the latest kit.
    So the original assertion was that female Soldiers and Marines do not have breast kevlar or breast plates, and in response you linked the above article which provides no evidence to counter that assertion and in fact provides more evidence as to why contouring steel or ceramic plates to fit a woman's bust would be less effective. Yes, they are testing armor that fits females better, but it's nothing like the topic of this thread. The only reference to Xena type armor in the article is in an offhand comment from the interviewee and he goes on to explain why it wouldn't work.

    And as far as R&D and acquisitions goes, when the Marines and Army have a common need (like infantry body-armor and such) they are pretty much equal as far as when they field them, especially in later years. The era in which Marines use secondhand equipment from the other services is largely over, with some minor exceptions.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Registered Users Posts: 1,487
    Ranger275 said:

    Ranger275 said:

    Just like our female soldiers and marines have boob Kevlar and boob steel or ceramic plates. Oh, wait...

    As a young male in the military, the women in uniform can be a little too shapely sometimes....

    ...but maybe that's just me

    It's just you. Haha
    :sunglasses: Yeah it's just me. lol
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Registered Users Posts: 4,102

    Ranger275 said:

    Just like our female soldiers and marines have boob Kevlar and boob steel or ceramic plates. Oh, wait...

    As a young male in the military, the women in uniform can be a little too shapely sometimes....

    ...but maybe that's just me

    Air Force?
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • TalmoreanTalmorean Registered Users Posts: 1,436
    US army vet here. Woman have the prowess and capability to do anything a man can do in the heat of battle. I have many of battlebuddies that are female.

    I weigh 240 lbs, and in full kit I'm pushing 300 lbs. I don't give a fig if you have lady parts or male parts. If you're pulling my Averland out of the fire, then I salute you.

    Stop caring about how sexualized a woman is in a fantasy game, and what role they play. It means pure **** in the real thing. Trust me.
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Registered Users Posts: 1,487
    ben8vtedu said:

    Ranger275 said:

    Just like our female soldiers and marines have boob Kevlar and boob steel or ceramic plates. Oh, wait...

    As a young male in the military, the women in uniform can be a little too shapely sometimes....

    ...but maybe that's just me

    Air Force?
    You guessed right !
  • Ranger275Ranger275 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 161
    If you want tit armor for delf flavor, just say so. Don't place it under the guise of empowerment.

    Don't defend it by saying that it's realistic. I'm fine with a female up front in melee because it's a magical fantasy land with a race that doesn't really exist. So fine, the delf females can slay bodies. If they're front line fighters, it'd be cool to me if they were in heavy kit with flattened, battered noses and scarred up faces. That is just me, though.
  • PissedOffOneEyedGuyPissedOffOneEyedGuy Registered Users Posts: 1,083
    please close this thread....
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,575
    Ranger275 said:

    If you want tit armor for delf flavor, just say so. Don't place it under the guise of empowerment.

    Don't defend it by saying that it's realistic. I'm fine with a female up front in melee because it's a magical fantasy land with a race that doesn't really exist. So fine, the delf females can slay bodies. If they're front line fighters, it'd be cool to me if they were in heavy kit with flattened, battered noses and scarred up faces. That is just me, though.

    Truth. Last part especially.
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Registered Users Posts: 2,009
    This is crazy.

    Aren't they modeled after their concept art and miniature counter parts?
  • SindrissSindriss Registered Users Posts: 448
    Talmorean said:



    Stop caring about how sexualized a woman is in a fantasy game, and what role they play. It means pure **** in the real thing. Trust me.

    But this isn't the real thing. It's a fantasy game with horrifying demons, musclebound warriors and sexy women. Deal with it.
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,575
    Sindriss said:

    Talmorean said:



    Stop caring about how sexualized a woman is in a fantasy game, and what role they play. It means pure **** in the real thing. Trust me.

    But this isn't the real thing. It's a fantasy game with horrifying demons, musclebound warriors and sexy women. Deal with it.
    Some of us like some realism in our fantasy to varying degrees.
  • TalmoreanTalmorean Registered Users Posts: 1,436
    Sindriss said:

    Talmorean said:



    Stop caring about how sexualized a woman is in a fantasy game, and what role they play. It means pure **** in the real thing. Trust me.

    But this isn't the real thing. It's a fantasy game with horrifying demons, musclebound warriors and sexy women. Deal with it.
    That's fine, but state the obvious and say "I want boobs for the sake of boobs" instead of claiming that it has any real need or preference.

    I like me some lady parts, but I don't try and feign other reasoning for it.

    "I want my Female Dreadlords to have a boob window because boobs!" - Perfectly reasonable argument.
  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member Registered Users Posts: 1,203
    So the original assertion was that female Soldiers and Marines do not have breast kevlar or breast plates, and in response you linked the above article which provides no evidence to counter that assertion and in fact provides more evidence as to why contouring steel or ceramic plates to fit a woman's bust would be less effective. Yes, they are testing armor that fits females better, but it's nothing like the topic of this article. The only reference to Xena type armor in the article is in an offhand comment from the interviewee and he goes on to explain why it wouldn't work.

    And as far as R&D and acquisitions goes, when the Marines and Army have a common need (like infantry body-armor and such) they are pretty much equal as far as when they field them, especially in later years. The era in which Marines use secondhand equipment from the other services is largely over, with some minor exceptions.
    They're already fielding kevlar (soft body armor) with bra shaped darting to form it to the curves of women's bodies. I quoted it in the post you're replying to.

    Hard armor is in R&D, meaning they see a need and a demand for it but it isn't ready for service.
    Talmorean said:

    US army vet here. Woman have the prowess and capability to do anything a man can do in the heat of battle. I have many of battlebuddies that are female.

    I weigh 240 lbs, and in full kit I'm pushing 300 lbs. I don't give a fig if you have lady parts or male parts. If you're pulling my Averland out of the fire, then I salute you.

    Stop caring about how sexualized a woman is in a fantasy game, and what role they play. It means pure **** in the real thing. Trust me.

    The military firmly disagrees with you.

    https://www.cmrlink.org/data/Sites/85/CMRDocuments/InterimCMRSpecialReport-PartII_122015.pdf

    KGpoopy said:

    This is crazy.

    Aren't they modeled after their concept art and miniature counter parts?

    All models and GW concept art for Dreadlords is male.
  • BiesBies Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,197
    edited July 2017
    It started because of some weak female model faces where you can't confirm if this is a man or a women/ so community need confirmation through others parts of body
    If they would do proper faces there wouldnt be a problem



    "I shivered at the sight of her - her beauty far beyond that of mortal man. But her soul glowed with an inner darkness that chilled my very core."









  • SindrissSindriss Registered Users Posts: 448

    Sindriss said:

    Talmorean said:



    Stop caring about how sexualized a woman is in a fantasy game, and what role they play. It means pure **** in the real thing. Trust me.

    But this isn't the real thing. It's a fantasy game with horrifying demons, musclebound warriors and sexy women. Deal with it.
    Some of us like some realism in our fantasy to varying degrees.
    You're playing a high fantasy game full of absurd over the top design. It's funny how these realism excuses only crop up when a female is involved.

    Talmorean said:

    Sindriss said:

    Talmorean said:



    Stop caring about how sexualized a woman is in a fantasy game, and what role they play. It means pure **** in the real thing. Trust me.

    But this isn't the real thing. It's a fantasy game with horrifying demons, musclebound warriors and sexy women. Deal with it.
    That's fine, but state the obvious and say "I want boobs for the sake of boobs" instead of claiming that it has any real need or preference.

    I like me some lady parts, but I don't try and feign other reasoning for it.

    "I want my Female Dreadlords to have a boob window because boobs!" - Perfectly reasonable argument.
    I'm not the op
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Registered Users Posts: 4,102

    So the original assertion was that female Soldiers and Marines do not have breast kevlar or breast plates, and in response you linked the above article which provides no evidence to counter that assertion and in fact provides more evidence as to why contouring steel or ceramic plates to fit a woman's bust would be less effective. Yes, they are testing armor that fits females better, but it's nothing like the topic of this article. The only reference to Xena type armor in the article is in an offhand comment from the interviewee and he goes on to explain why it wouldn't work.

    And as far as R&D and acquisitions goes, when the Marines and Army have a common need (like infantry body-armor and such) they are pretty much equal as far as when they field them, especially in later years. The era in which Marines use secondhand equipment from the other services is largely over, with some minor exceptions.
    "They're already fielding kevlar (soft body armor) with bra shaped darting to form it to the curves of women's bodies. I quoted it in the post you're replying to.

    Hard armor is in R&D, meaning they see a need and a demand for it but it isn't ready for service. "


    I know they're fielding female sized/shaped vests, but what you are talking about looks like this:

    Not this:

    Anyways, since I can't even seem to remember how this side argument started and since we're derailing the thread I suggest we put it to bed.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 19,695
    Closed, without comment.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Registered Users Posts: 4,102
    ben8vtedu said:

    ben8vtedu said:

    Ranger275 said:

    Just like our female soldiers and marines have boob Kevlar and boob steel or ceramic plates. Oh, wait...

    https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2012/0709/Army-uses-Xena-Warrior-Princess-as-inspiration-for-new-body-armor-for-women

    Now don't you feel silly?
    Did you read the article?
    "'Some people would like to eventually make plates so it’s like ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and conforms to the shape' of female soldiers, he adds." --The title is just a sensationalized headline to get you to read the article. Clickbait if you will.

    "'Yet there are engineering challenges. The more curves the plates have, the heavier they get. It also creates potential weaknesses in the armor, like creasing a paper,' Lozano explains. 'There are some complex curvatures that come into play with female hard-armor plates,” he says. “I could make female hard armor, but it would be twice as heavy.'"--Adding curves to the plates makes them less effective.

    "Now, the Army is testing eight additional sizes made specifically for women, with, among other changes, more-narrow shoulders and “bra-shaped darting” in the chest."--Essentially just some resizing, no mention of Xena type breast plate.

    That article is from 4 years ago. I joined the Marines before that article came out. I still have not seen female specific body armor.
    Yes, obviously.

    "“Some people would like to eventually make plates so it’s like ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and conforms to the shape” of female soldiers, he adds."

    "Now, the Army is testing eight additional sizes made specifically for women, with, among other changes, more-narrow shoulders and “bra-shaped darting” in the chest.

    Some 100 women of the 101st Airborne Division, who will soon be headed to Afghanistan, are testing them and have given positive early feedback. “They say, ‘I could wear this all day,’ ‘I could run a marathon in this,’ and ‘It feels much lighter,’ even though it really isn’t any lighter,” Lozano says."

    R&D takes a long time. Then you still have trials that can take years before new kit is approved for use.

    Also, it's an article about the army. The Marines are pretty much always dead last to get the latest kit.
    So the original assertion was that female Soldiers and Marines do not have breast kevlar or breast plates, and in response you linked the above article which provides no evidence to counter that assertion and in fact provides more evidence as to why contouring steel or ceramic plates to fit a woman's bust would be less effective. Yes, they are testing armor that fits females better, but it's nothing like the topic of this thread. The only reference to Xena type armor in the article is in an offhand comment from the interviewee and he goes on to explain why it wouldn't work.

    And as far as R&D and acquisitions goes, when the Marines and Army have a common need (like infantry body-armor and such) they are pretty much equal as far as when they field them, especially in later years. The era in which Marines use secondhand equipment from the other services is largely over, with some minor exceptions.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • jimityjimity Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 305




    Every Dreadlord thread......
    But honey, I can't come to bed, this is important - someone is wrong on the internet!
This discussion has been closed.