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Norsca too much or just right?

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  • KhorneFlakesKhorneFlakes Registered Users Posts: 3,373
    Riggsen said:

    This. Earth blood only looks like its good on Bret infantry blobs because those generally have 2 paladins, a reilquae and the Fay in them getting massive heals and propping up the swarm.

    On the subject of win rates, I think Chaos and BM do well in quick battles because they're mostly just balls out melee rush factions. Empire and Bret are harder to play well, in the sense that if you just buy a mass of units and rush them at a Chaos or BM player you will lose. New players tend to do that or play Dawi and try to camp.

    Certainly at the higher end of competitive play Empire, VC and Bret will beat BM and Chaos on average. This sort of phenomenon was seen in Starcraft a while back. Zerg had the worst win ratio in general ladder play but were dominating tournaments.

    Us folk on the forums probably represent a minority in the total number of QBs played. So even if most of us are well above average and may disproportionately use 'Tier 1' or 'meta' factions, our numbers probably only skew those factions win % by a couple of points tops.

    earth blood is universally good for all factions..even in tournament wood elves earth blood are dangerous you yourself has seen one,as for nehek well its vampires assymetry bonus
    chaos doesn't have any assymetry bonuses,or useful abilities or useful magic for that matter thats why it puts them tier 3 faction ,forsaken and manticores and even cwgw were the saving grace of chaos matchess,so all the roster needs to get brought up just like vampires also need....

    and the fact that most people will be playing vanilla factions more,the one bought the dlcs are less but are mor einvested in game too

    Balance Is A Lie

  • ChipawapaChipawapa Registered Users Posts: 151
    Seldkam said:

    The biggest issue with chaos is easily no healing and mediocre monsters which is supposed to be their cool angle. Cw aren't that bad, cwgw especially, forsaken we all know are at least good, they actually have decent cheap ap skirmish cav but...

    No healing :/ which is a huge deal ... Most nooby chaos only people are never going to realize the difference but those that go play bretonnia once in awhile will see this insane advantage.

    Imagine chaos knights with earth blood, crazy!

    Warriors of Chaos are not known for their monsters, they are known for their unstoppable infantry. Their monsters are okay at best when compared to what chosen and chaos warriors should be able to do.

    And just because Bretonnia has healing magic doesnt mean that Chaos needs it too. This is a problem I see very often in this forum, you expect everyone to have the same tools at fighting. Balance needs to be achieved without sacrificing diversity and uniqueness, otherwise you might as well go play chess.

    Instead of asking to bring chaos up to par so that it can deal with bretonnias healing in its own ways, you ask for chaos to get healing too. Do you see the problem here? A while back when norsca was announced there were people asking for chaos to have the norsca units, because "norsca seems better". That is the wrong stance to have when asking for balance.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    Chipawapa said:

    Seldkam said:

    The biggest issue with chaos is easily no healing and mediocre monsters which is supposed to be their cool angle. Cw aren't that bad, cwgw especially, forsaken we all know are at least good, they actually have decent cheap ap skirmish cav but...

    No healing :/ which is a huge deal ... Most nooby chaos only people are never going to realize the difference but those that go play bretonnia once in awhile will see this insane advantage.

    Imagine chaos knights with earth blood, crazy!

    Warriors of Chaos are not known for their monsters, they are known for their unstoppable infantry. Their monsters are okay at best when compared to what chosen and chaos warriors should be able to do.

    And just because Bretonnia has healing magic doesnt mean that Chaos needs it too. This is a problem I see very often in this forum, you expect everyone to have the same tools at fighting. Balance needs to be achieved without sacrificing diversity and uniqueness, otherwise you might as well go play chess.

    Instead of asking to bring chaos up to par so that it can deal with bretonnias healing in its own ways, you ask for chaos to get healing too. Do you see the problem here? A while back when norsca was announced there were people asking for chaos to have the norsca units, because "norsca seems better". That is the wrong stance to have when asking for balance.
    Well CA seems determined to not buff Chaos infantry.
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,337
    Chipawapa said:

    Seldkam said:

    The biggest issue with chaos is easily no healing and mediocre monsters which is supposed to be their cool angle. Cw aren't that bad, cwgw especially, forsaken we all know are at least good, they actually have decent cheap ap skirmish cav but...

    No healing :/ which is a huge deal ... Most nooby chaos only people are never going to realize the difference but those that go play bretonnia once in awhile will see this insane advantage.

    Imagine chaos knights with earth blood, crazy!

    Warriors of Chaos are not known for their monsters, they are known for their unstoppable infantry. Their monsters are okay at best when compared to what chosen and chaos warriors should be able to do.

    And just because Bretonnia has healing magic doesnt mean that Chaos needs it too. This is a problem I see very often in this forum, you expect everyone to have the same tools at fighting. Balance needs to be achieved without sacrificing diversity and uniqueness, otherwise you might as well go play chess.

    Instead of asking to bring chaos up to par so that it can deal with bretonnias healing in its own ways, you ask for chaos to get healing too. Do you see the problem here? A while back when norsca was announced there were people asking for chaos to have the norsca units, because "norsca seems better". That is the wrong stance to have when asking for balance.
    Wtf? Ok first of all, in TWW, chaos best units aren't even chaos warriors, which is my point... Secondly no, I don't want chaos to get **** healing what in the hell would that accomplish? I just spent 2 paragraphs saying how crazy healing is, why would I want ANOTHER faction to get access to it?

    Seems we have a misunderstanding...
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
  • DandalusXVIIDandalusXVII Registered Users Posts: 4,249
    irurobin said:

    @cool_lad

    Win rates means nothing at all. How many times do we need to repeat that?
    Duck once said that the beatsmen and Chaos have very small player base so a few dedicated Chaos player can significantly increase the win rate. While there are tons of average players (and noobs) playing Empire, Vampire and Bretonnia which significantly lower the tier one faction win rate.

    Every decent player knows that Chaos are trash 90% of the time and need help. They only have one cost effective units ( op forsaken), no answer to skirmishers and no effective anti large methods.

    Well said. Statistics mean little. I only play WoC, i belong to dedicated players. I play WoC extremely well and win average players who usually don't play every faction in depth. But against a pro player who plays his main faction seriously and puts a lot of effort, i struggle to get a valiant defeat.
  • ChipawapaChipawapa Registered Users Posts: 151
    Seldkam said:

    Chipawapa said:

    Seldkam said:

    The biggest issue with chaos is easily no healing and mediocre monsters which is supposed to be their cool angle. Cw aren't that bad, cwgw especially, forsaken we all know are at least good, they actually have decent cheap ap skirmish cav but...

    No healing :/ which is a huge deal ... Most nooby chaos only people are never going to realize the difference but those that go play bretonnia once in awhile will see this insane advantage.

    Imagine chaos knights with earth blood, crazy!

    Warriors of Chaos are not known for their monsters, they are known for their unstoppable infantry. Their monsters are okay at best when compared to what chosen and chaos warriors should be able to do.

    And just because Bretonnia has healing magic doesnt mean that Chaos needs it too. This is a problem I see very often in this forum, you expect everyone to have the same tools at fighting. Balance needs to be achieved without sacrificing diversity and uniqueness, otherwise you might as well go play chess.

    Instead of asking to bring chaos up to par so that it can deal with bretonnias healing in its own ways, you ask for chaos to get healing too. Do you see the problem here? A while back when norsca was announced there were people asking for chaos to have the norsca units, because "norsca seems better". That is the wrong stance to have when asking for balance.
    Wtf? Ok first of all, in TWW, chaos best units aren't even chaos warriors, which is my point... Secondly no, I don't want chaos to get **** healing what in the hell would that accomplish? I just spent 2 paragraphs saying how crazy healing is, why would I want ANOTHER faction to get access to it?

    Seems we have a misunderstanding...
    You sure have a funny way of saying you don't want healing for WoC. "The biggest issue with chaos is easily no healing", "No healing :/ which is a huge deal", "Imagine chaos knights with earth blood, crazy!"
  • SeldkamSeldkam Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,337
    Chipawapa said:

    Seldkam said:

    Chipawapa said:

    Seldkam said:

    The biggest issue with chaos is easily no healing and mediocre monsters which is supposed to be their cool angle. Cw aren't that bad, cwgw especially, forsaken we all know are at least good, they actually have decent cheap ap skirmish cav but...

    No healing :/ which is a huge deal ... Most nooby chaos only people are never going to realize the difference but those that go play bretonnia once in awhile will see this insane advantage.

    Imagine chaos knights with earth blood, crazy!

    Warriors of Chaos are not known for their monsters, they are known for their unstoppable infantry. Their monsters are okay at best when compared to what chosen and chaos warriors should be able to do.

    And just because Bretonnia has healing magic doesnt mean that Chaos needs it too. This is a problem I see very often in this forum, you expect everyone to have the same tools at fighting. Balance needs to be achieved without sacrificing diversity and uniqueness, otherwise you might as well go play chess.

    Instead of asking to bring chaos up to par so that it can deal with bretonnias healing in its own ways, you ask for chaos to get healing too. Do you see the problem here? A while back when norsca was announced there were people asking for chaos to have the norsca units, because "norsca seems better". That is the wrong stance to have when asking for balance.
    Wtf? Ok first of all, in TWW, chaos best units aren't even chaos warriors, which is my point... Secondly no, I don't want chaos to get **** healing what in the hell would that accomplish? I just spent 2 paragraphs saying how crazy healing is, why would I want ANOTHER faction to get access to it?

    Seems we have a misunderstanding...
    You sure have a funny way of saying you don't want healing for WoC. "The biggest issue with chaos is easily no healing", "No healing :/ which is a huge deal", "Imagine chaos knights with earth blood, crazy!"
    And your point? Just because I say "Chaos doesn't have healing which is bad for them" doesn't immediately mean I'm saying "Chaos needs healing"

    They're completely separate statements. There are plenty of other ways to help Chaos other than giving them an illogical, completely unthematic "buff" like adding healing magic. This is not an argument you can win. You misunderstood me and jumped to a conclusion.
    The inferior races of this world will be crushed one by one, as our armies move from shore to shore, and hill to hill, and city to city-- and each of their cries will be as music to our ears, for we are the Druchii.
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