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Should Athel Loren be expanded in the mega campaign?

TheEmperorTheEmperor Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 671
It's a pity that the Athel Loren in the grand campaign has little diversity in its landscape. I always hoped that the detailed one in the mini campaign could be somehow ported to the grand campaign. It doesn't have to be the same size. Some features can be cut or compressed. It's too much of a waste to be left out of the grand/mega campaign.
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  • lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 4,131
    Yes, it looks so pretty in the mini campaign. At least make the oak of ages a real settlement
  • SherShahSuriSherShahSuri Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,109
    edited August 2017
    Would be nice... the mini-campaign made the map seem pretty big, a huge ancient and mystical forest... the grand campaign made it look like a national park...
  • irurobinirurobin Registered Users Posts: 1,826
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 2,598
    it would be fun but considering they said that they are gonna try to keep the size of old world and cut some parts of the new i doubt anything will get enlarged
  • StephinceStephince Registered Users Posts: 2,736
    Maybe if we ask nicely they'll make a mega super campaign with everything scaled correctly :)
  • HelhoundHelhound Registered Users Posts: 3,908
    edited August 2017
    One effect did transfer over that looks pretty cool in game. The welfs plant trees in any settlement they take just like in the mini campaign. Even in Norsca once youve suppressed the chaos corruption. Really hope this mechanic makes it into the mega campaign.

    Edit: It also has in game consequences, giving them more ways to proc their fight in forest bonuses.
  • IchonIchon Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,172
    edited August 2017

    It's a pity that the Athel Loren in the grand campaign has little diversity in its landscape. I always hoped that the detailed one in the mini campaign could be somehow ported to the grand campaign. It doesn't have to be the same size. Some features can be cut or compressed. It's too much of a waste to be left out of the grand/mega campaign.

    The mini campaign map was a fail. Wood Elves aren't bad faction in themselves and I don't mind buying it but that map for the mini campaign was a huge miss.

    Wood Elves were only present on less than 1/8 of the map and didn't need to expand at all to win. I don't think I even explored or interacted with Bretonnia before winning the campaign.

    Athel Loren should have been a good 1/3 of the map with lot more detail and Beastmen roaming the wood itself along with Dark Spirits while Dawi in Grey Mountains were around, some Forest Goblins, and Bretonnia too. Especially better if owning the Beastmen DLC allowed you to play as Beastmen on the map and convert Athel Loren to Chaos perhaps even allying or vassalizing the Dark Spirts of the forest...

    I might have bought the Beastmen DLC just to play them on a better Wood Elves mini campaign map.

    As for Wood Elves in the mega campaign- don't expect to see any changes. The conquer anywhere aspect might allow Wood Elves to establish a handful of major colonies outside of Athel Loren in major capitals but mostly they will still be limited to outposts to reflect the small population base they have.
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  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,294
    I do wonder if they'll change some of the Wood Elf buffs for the Mega Campaign after all their stats go crazy from their buffs.
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  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 2,878
    I hope, the mega map is at least 3 times as big!

    I don t care about the walking duration!!!

    (There are also mods to increase it ,lol)
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 5,831
    Not if they're only going to have the two LL's, no. Seems a bit pointless giving what's a minor faction a vast territory.
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  • TeNoSkillTeNoSkill Registered Users Posts: 2,878
    Arsenic said:

    Not if they're only going to have the two LL's, no. Seems a bit pointless giving what's a minor faction a vast territory.

    Well, I don t care, if the other factions are also represented properly, which means at least 4 settlements per Empire region and 3 per Bretonian dukedom
  • SteppelordSteppelord Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,266
    I don't think Athel Loren will be given any more settlements in the combined campaign, and don't think CA are willing to do this. However, there are two suggestions which I can make. One is reducing movement speed through athel loren on the campaign map by like 60 percent, so that the magical feeling of Athel Loren can be replicated, so that it actually feels like a timeless, magical place through which it is hard to travel. This should be accompanied by a bit of a expanded border for the four current settlements (cutting a bit into surrounding brettonian lands, making all of Athel Loren like 15 percent bigger.)

    The other is having a special event which can trigger when you're passing through Athel Loren, which is a "Forest Dragon Attack" and which kills/wounds some of your soldiers. Or something of that nature. This could off course be added in Naggaroth too for non Dark Elves (but with cold ones or such,) Lustria (dinosaurs) or mountains for non-dwarves/greenskins.
  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,693
    Doubt it, if anything the map will lose some of the details it currently has, so I would expect the same size or slightly smaller, but unlikely to get bigger.
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  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 3,421
    Movement in Athel Loren is already quite complicated and with horrid attrition. Not a place you just traverse willy nilly. And if you image something even more complicated, just consider that many not hospitable places are depicted and the armies movement is not that fast. There is no time unit depicted but it could maybe 1month/turn?
  • GunKingGunKing Registered Users Posts: 620
    Something should be done with Athel Loren. I would like to see the parts of the forest that are eternally wintry, summer and twilight on the grand campaign, maybe not for Game 2, but perhaps for the MEGA MEGA MAP for Game 3. In that map maybe they can expand the map just a tad to pack in a missing Bretonnian dukedom or something.

    More Beastmen spawning within Athel Loren would also really liven up WE gameplay, **** make it consistent too, really play up the SHADOW WAR waged between the two factions. Right now WE & Beastmen conflicts are largely incidental. Wandering bands of adventurers you have to slaughter like Game 2's rogue armies would be great too, Empire looters, Bretonnian knights and Dwarfen loggers, actually DEFEND ATHEL LOREN.

    It would solidify that isolationist feel that WE ought to have without being boring, because you're actually fighting intruders instead of plotting what low level settlement you can take over for amber with your gimped half-stack army (talking about early game here).

    What would be so so so so SO cool though for me, would be a NEW LL & NEW STARTING POSITION in the Laurelorn Forest!!! There's plenty of space around Norden/Middenland to plop them in, and the perfect place to send a vanilla Wood Elf like Araloth (or Sisters of Twilight, doesn't matter), maybe Ariel sends him/them as dignitaries to their northern kin which puts him in direct conflict with Morghur's starting area!
  • chrissher7chrissher7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,038
    edited August 2017
    I hope so because the Wood Elves only have 4 proper settlements for really stupid lore reasons. Making the Wood Elves isolationist was the worst fundamental lore mistake GW made. It means that you can't headcanon a battle with any race far away from them geograpically. Those races are the Chaos Dwarfs, High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Ogre Kingdoms and Kislev. It's a real shame as they are in the middle for me in terms of coolness which is very cool. This probably won't happen though as they said only Warhammer II's map will be altered for it.

  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,692

    I hope so because the Wood Elves only have 4 settlements for really stupid lore reasons. Making the Wood Elves isolationist was the worst fundamental lore mistake GW made. It means that you can't headcanon a battle with any race far away from them geograpically. This probably won't happen though as they said only Warhammer II's will be altered for it.

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  • chrissher7chrissher7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,038

    I hope so because the Wood Elves only have 4 settlements for really stupid lore reasons. Making the Wood Elves isolationist was the worst fundamental lore mistake GW made. It means that you can't headcanon a battle with any race far away from them geograpically. This probably won't happen though as they said only Warhammer II's will be altered for it.

    why can't you? Via the World Roots they can go nearly everywhere...
    Yes but they don't have any lore reasons to do so as the races far away aren't likely to threaten them.

  • uriakuriak Registered Users Posts: 3,421
    @chrissher7 : making them non isolationists wouldn't make any sense. Do you want to end up with all conquerir clones?
    And yes it was kinda handwaved by GW while CA actually has to make these interactions happen. An issue that will become more and more complicated as the map expand. I wonder if we'll see any ogre/dark elves fights or Chaos dwarfs clashing with lizardmen...
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 5,831

    I hope so because the Wood Elves only have 4 proper settlements for really stupid lore reasons. Making the Wood Elves isolationist was the worst fundamental lore mistake GW made. It means that you can't headcanon a battle with any race far away from them geograpically. Those races are the Chaos Dwarfs, High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Ogre Kingdoms and Kislev. It's a real shame as they are in the middle for me in terms of coolness which is very cool. This probably won't happen though as they said only Warhammer II's map will be altered for it.

    It's hard to make a race in a symbiotic relationship with a sentient wood anything other than isolationist, if you think about it. They can hardly take the wood with them a la Great Birnam to Dunsinane.

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  • chrissher7chrissher7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,038
    Arsenic said:

    I hope so because the Wood Elves only have 4 proper settlements for really stupid lore reasons. Making the Wood Elves isolationist was the worst fundamental lore mistake GW made. It means that you can't headcanon a battle with any race far away from them geograpically. Those races are the Chaos Dwarfs, High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Ogre Kingdoms and Kislev. It's a real shame as they are in the middle for me in terms of coolness which is very cool. This probably won't happen though as they said only Warhammer II's map will be altered for it.

    It's hard to make a race in a symbiotic relationship with a sentient wood anything other than isolationist, if you think about it. They can hardly take the wood with them a la Great Birnam to Dunsinane.

    Yes but they could have made some other woods similar to Athel Loren and the Wood Elves want to conquer and supposedly 'free' them.


  • RhyndirRhyndir Registered Users Posts: 265
    edited August 2017
    Erm...please enlighten me if I am totally wrong.

    But the mega-campaign shouldn't change the scale of any Territory of neither the Old World nor the New World at all. And even if it does...the scale of each region/province/faction would be decreased, not increase.

    The Woodelves are maybe the most defensive faction in the Old World, allready the outpost system is a (good) feature for the sake of gameplay - There shouldnt be any new Forests they magically want to conquer and settle them.
  • ArilouArilou Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 632
    No way they're going to increase it's size. if anything they're likely to decrease it. (possibly increasing the building slots to compensate)
  • HolySaintKnightHolySaintKnight Registered Users Posts: 4,417
    I agree with OP 100%.
  • GeldorGeldor Registered Users Posts: 1,115

    Arsenic said:

    I hope so because the Wood Elves only have 4 proper settlements for really stupid lore reasons. Making the Wood Elves isolationist was the worst fundamental lore mistake GW made. It means that you can't headcanon a battle with any race far away from them geograpically. Those races are the Chaos Dwarfs, High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Ogre Kingdoms and Kislev. It's a real shame as they are in the middle for me in terms of coolness which is very cool. This probably won't happen though as they said only Warhammer II's map will be altered for it.

    It's hard to make a race in a symbiotic relationship with a sentient wood anything other than isolationist, if you think about it. They can hardly take the wood with them a la Great Birnam to Dunsinane.

    Yes but they could have made some other woods similar to Athel Loren and the Wood Elves want to conquer and supposedly 'free' them.

    Why? That's not how they are depicted in the lore. You'll soon have two elf factions with which you can invade and take anything anywhere on the map with any kind of lore reason/excuse you can come up with (need slaves, want to plunder, someone's in the way, being bored, killing someone is fun, looking for magical items etc., & someone's place has a waystone which has to be protected, or someone's up to no good/doesn't understand what he's doing and have to be destroyed, we really need that port for our fleet to protect the world (and our trade routes), have to protect an ally etc.)

    I think it's good that they have one isolationist faction for sake of variety, and wood elves make perfect sense to b that faction.

    On terms of Athel Loren. A bit in two minds about that. As the area is so small on the map, if you make an ice, charred and more different areas, it might not like much of a mighty wood anymore. It's already borderline like that because of the open roads the wood has.

    But on the other hand a bit more variety might be nice.
  • chrissher7chrissher7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,038
    Geldor said:

    Arsenic said:

    I hope so because the Wood Elves only have 4 proper settlements for really stupid lore reasons. Making the Wood Elves isolationist was the worst fundamental lore mistake GW made. It means that you can't headcanon a battle with any race far away from them geograpically. Those races are the Chaos Dwarfs, High Elves, Dark Elves, Lizardmen, Ogre Kingdoms and Kislev. It's a real shame as they are in the middle for me in terms of coolness which is very cool. This probably won't happen though as they said only Warhammer II's map will be altered for it.

    It's hard to make a race in a symbiotic relationship with a sentient wood anything other than isolationist, if you think about it. They can hardly take the wood with them a la Great Birnam to Dunsinane.

    Yes but they could have made some other woods similar to Athel Loren and the Wood Elves want to conquer and supposedly 'free' them.

    Why? That's not how they are depicted in the lore. You'll soon have two elf factions with which you can invade and take anything anywhere on the map with any kind of lore reason/excuse you can come up with (need slaves, want to plunder, someone's in the way, being bored, killing someone is fun, looking for magical items etc., & someone's place has a waystone which has to be protected, or someone's up to no good/doesn't understand what he's doing and have to be destroyed, we really need that port for our fleet to protect the world (and our trade routes), have to protect an ally etc.)

    I think it's good that they have one isolationist faction for sake of variety, and wood elves make perfect sense to b that faction.

    On terms of Athel Loren. A bit in two minds about that. As the area is so small on the map, if you make an ice, charred and more different areas, it might not like much of a mighty wood anymore. It's already borderline like that because of the open roads the wood has.

    But on the other hand a bit more variety might be nice.
    My issue is with the lore and they is referring to GW. As for the wood it would still look mighty as it's area would surely increased if they made it bigger if it even matters.

  • ArilouArilou Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 632
    Why? That's not how they are depicted in the lore.

    There are Wood Elf communities outside of Athel Loren (the Laurelorn forest being the largest, IIRC) they're just not as big or important.
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 5,831
    Arilou said:

    Why? That's not how they are depicted in the lore.

    There are Wood Elf communities outside of Athel Loren (the Laurelorn forest being the largest, IIRC) they're just not as big or important.

    Having a quick read of them they seem a bit different from the slightly feral Athel Loren lot though.There's more communication between the Laurelorn Elves and the Empire than there is between Athel Loren and Bretonnia.
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  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,809
    No, only the WE fanboys who can't see the big picture would want this. They already talked about having to shave stuff off the vortex map for the mega campaign.
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  • Arcani_4_EverArcani_4_Ever Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,470
    Technically all ofthis wouldve been fixed if CA added Forest Regions like the Laurelorn forest, Drakwald Forest, The Great Forest, The Griffon Forest, The Altern Forest, The Dead Woods and the Northern Forest had been added as unique colonizable regions by Wood Elves, Greenskins and Beastmen.

    All Forests in the Empire, which are known to have Beastmen Herds, Forest Goblins, and the Laurelorn Forest even has an Wood Elf city with Forest Dragon somewhere deep.

    Would've been fun to Build Herdstones in the forest as the Beastmen, the only thing they build.

    And getting Forest Goblins building their settlements in the regions.

    Hell, the map can fit them perfectly. Middenland, Talabecland and Stirland, where most of these forest are, are huge empties in the map.

    Also in the Dead Forest, between the provinces of Ostlermark and Sylvania, lies a cursed city. A city recently overrun by Skaven from Clan Eshin. Mordheim. So even the Skaven could be added into the mix.
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