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STRAWPOLL: Should main faction names be changed from their race to their respective nation?

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  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 3,833
    edited July 2017
    There should be a unification effect once certain campaign criteria is met.

    Reikland => The Empire of Man.

    Clan Angrund/Clan Durazklad => Karaz Ankor?

    Bordeleaux/Carcassonne/Couronne => The Kingdom of Bretonnia.

    Realm of Talsyn/Realm of Argwylon => The Realm of Athel Loren?

    Just to name a few ideas.

  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 25,189
    edited July 2017

    There should be a unification effect once certain campaign criteria is met.

    Reikland => The Empire of Man.


    -1000 points for calling the Empire "The Empire of Man". That's 40k nomenclature which has no business being in WHFB since there are other major human factions.

    Also, if you pick Karl Franz, you start out as emperor of the Empire, not emperor of Reikland. What they should change are the game mechanics of the Empire, not give KF's faction the wrong name.


  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 3,833
    edited July 2017

    There should be a unification effect once certain campaign criteria is met.

    Reikland => The Empire of Man.


    -1000 points for calling the Empire "The Empire of Man". That's 40k nomenclature which has no business being in WHFB since there are other major human factions.

    Also, if you pick Karl Franz, you start out as emperor of the Empire, not emperor of Reikland. What they should change are the game mechanics of the Empire, not give KF's faction the wrong name.

    40k nomenclature would be The Imperium of Man.

    The Empire is short for The Empire of Man.

    And yes Franz was elected emperor but the provinces are fragmented and you only have authority over Reikland. Which is just short for The Grand Principality of Reikland. Otherwise you wouldn't be unifying the provinces during the campaign.

    At the beginning of the campaign Karl Franz is an Emperor without an Empire
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 25,189
    It's only ever just "the Empire". There's no justification for the "of man" addition because, as I already said, there are other human factions around. In 40k the Imperium encapsulates all of humanity (save for those who worship Chaos), so it can call itself that.

    It doesn't matter that you start with just Altdorf in the game, you are still the Emperor. If you want KF's faction to be called Reikland then the game shouldn't start with him being Emperor.

  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 3,833

    It's only ever just "the Empire". There's no justification for the "of man" addition because, as I already said, there are other human factions around. In 40k the Imperium encapsulates all of humanity (save for those who worship Chaos), so it can call itself that.

    It doesn't matter that you start with just Altdorf in the game, you are still the Emperor. If you want KF's faction to be called Reikland then the game shouldn't start with him being Emperor.

    Its the Empire of Man because when Sigmar unified the tribes they were the only major human faction at the time. Bretonnia and Kislev came about at a later time. Either way I am fine with using The Empire.

    But you are not The Empire in the beginning, you are an Emperor who has no Empire. Franz is an Emperor in name only since he was elected and has been coronated. But the provinces are fragmented and you have no real authority over them. You are not The Empire until you have brought the other provinces back into the fold either through diplomacy or conquest.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 25,189
    And as I already said as well, that means we need better Empire mechanics, not screw up the naming of KF's faction.

  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 3,833

    And as I already said as well, that means we need better Empire mechanics, not screw up the naming of KF's faction.

    This is a mechanic though, you get a faction name change after meeting campaign requirements. Now granted its a cosmetic one but I think it would be pretty cool and would make for a rather momentous occasion during a playthrough.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 25,189

    And as I already said as well, that means we need better Empire mechanics, not screw up the naming of KF's faction.

    This is a mechanic though, you get a faction name change after meeting campaign requirements. Now granted its a cosmetic one but I think it would be pretty cool and would make for a rather momentous occasion during a playthrough.
    No, it's not a mechanic if it does nothing but change the name. KF starts as emperor and so he will always lead the Empire, not just Reikland.

    Additional Empire provinces would require additional Empire mechanics anyway, which is why I think the Empire hasn't gotten subfactions so far.

  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 3,833
    edited July 2017

    And as I already said as well, that means we need better Empire mechanics, not screw up the naming of KF's faction.

    This is a mechanic though, you get a faction name change after meeting campaign requirements. Now granted its a cosmetic one but I think it would be pretty cool and would make for a rather momentous occasion during a playthrough.
    No, it's not a mechanic if it does nothing but change the name. KF starts as emperor and so he will always lead the Empire, not just Reikland.

    Additional Empire provinces would require additional Empire mechanics anyway, which is why I think the Empire hasn't gotten subfactions so far.
    The campaign does not start that way. Franz is still Emperor but in name only, I would keep going with this but we are just talking in circles.

    As far as empire subfactions Middenheim is the one I think most people want and I think it would be great if the player had the option to unify The Empire under Boris Todbringer. When that happens they then receive the faction name change.

    Now is Todbringer becoming Emperor canon to the lore? Of course not. However it gives the player the ability to have an alternate story to experience.
  • NemoxNemox Registered Users Posts: 2,872
    edited July 2017

    And as I already said as well, that means we need better Empire mechanics, not screw up the naming of KF's faction.

    This is a mechanic though, you get a faction name change after meeting campaign requirements. Now granted its a cosmetic one but I think it would be pretty cool and would make for a rather momentous occasion during a playthrough.
    No, it's not a mechanic if it does nothing but change the name. KF starts as emperor and so he will always lead the Empire, not just Reikland.

    Additional Empire provinces would require additional Empire mechanics anyway, which is why I think the Empire hasn't gotten subfactions so far.
    The campaign does not start that way. Franz is still Emperor but in name only, I would keep going with this but we are just talking in circles.

    As far as empire subfactions Middenheim is the one I think most people want and I think it would be great if the player had the option to unify The Empire under Boris Todbringer. When that happens they then receive the faction name change.

    Now is Todbringer becoming Emperor canon to the lore? Of course not. However it gives the player the ability to have an alternate story to experience.
    Read on how the Empire actually functions. The Emperor never has full control of every province. This is how it works. It is very much similar to the Holy Roman Empire.

    "Despite being technically both head-of-state and commander-in-chief of the Imperial military, the Emperor is not by any means an absolute ruler. He has to share much of his power, influence and responsibilities with the powerful Elector Counts."

    "Each of the Elector Counts collects taxes from his respective province and will spend his wealth as he sees fit. He will recruit and pay his own provincial army, who is far more loyal to its local ruler. Depending upon the wealth of the province, a wealthy Elector Count may even afford and recruit a larger army than the Emperor. A wise Emperor will realise that trying to subdue the Elector Counts through threats and/or force is a very dangerous errand, which all too easily ends up in open rebellion and civil war. Gaining their respect and loyalty through example and fair leadership tends to be the best policy. "

    "The Emperor's power is severely limited by the inability of enforcing his edicts within the semi-independent provinces. Far from the capital and inside their own provinces, the Elector Counts rule and they can choose to largely ignore his edicts and decrees."

    "Furthermore The Empire is not a centralised state, but a feudal confederacy. The Emperor does not control the entire military of the Empire and he does not receive all, or even the majority, of taxes. His taxes and resources are collected from his own province and his own personal treasury will pay the military units under his direct control. "

    It is pretty accurate that being Emperor still means **** all. It is coveted because in the hands of a powerful statesmen (Like Franz), they know how to bend the Empire where necessary. Likewise, as Emperor, one gets to tout themselves as the Empire. They are first among Electors. They technically command the Imperial Army - however, as shown, this is very different in practice.

    With more fluff and mechanics the Empire can better represent this mess of stately powers working for a greater whole. A name change doesn't accomplish this, nor does it create the illusion of immersion.

    To put it simply: We are not playing Karl Franz the Prince and Elector, but Franz as the Emperor in the face of a new Everchosen. So, we have the monumental task (Or it should be with better mechanics) of actually putting the Emperor's authority into practice. Confederating, allying or just downright dominating petty states.
    Post edited by Nemox on
  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,465
    Why are people still arguing over name schemes? It's like #WomensSuffrage

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • BrightestLightBrightestLight Registered Users Posts: 525
    Well they're doing this for game two. Make of that what you will.
  • Prkl8rPrkl8r Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 680
    IMO it should be the province name until you confederated, at which point it should become the faction name.

    Example:
    Franz starts as Reikland, but as soon as he confederated with another empire faction it changes to The Empire.

    This makes the most sense to me.
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