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High Elves - Where's the love??

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  • IzarielIzariel Registered Users Posts: 585
    Yeah, the dev just screwed up on that cav and left the dragon princes in combat the whole time without cycle charging. Micro misshap.
  • PatriksevePatrikseve Member Registered Users Posts: 1,714
    edited August 2017
    I suspect (speculation) they are one of the stronger races in the full game... its easy to specualte as to how weak or strong something is without having the game and seeing how it all ties togheter. Lets wait for the game before drawing full conclusions about the state of an army. I think they will be a very powerfull all around army with some very interesting diplomatic options.

  • Mephasm_ShadowenMephasm_Shadowen Registered Users Posts: 8
    Love? There is no love here, only death. Death for the usurpers who stole our Lord's rightful throne. ;)
  • Mad MacMad Mac Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 718
    Considering the High Elves only seem to be getting (slight) buffs between iterations, I doubt they're over-performing in internal testing.

    Or rather, when we first saw them in the Kroq-qar they had terrible stats but Martial Prowess was very strong. In the next video (lets play) the units were slightly stronger and SwordMasters picked up deflect but Martial Prowess was heavily nerfed.

    In the Dark Elf battle they again seem to be very slightly better (extra 10 range for archers, slightly better attack on spearmen?) but Martial Prowess has been changed again, (slightly buffed?) from +12 MD and 50% charge defense to +6 Attack/Defense to +12 MD and +3 MA.

    Despite the slight improvements over time they still look weaker than the other races IMO, even the Skaven have some really powerful infantry and a ton of stuff on top.

  • Horus168Horus168 Registered Users Posts: 578

    Wait till the game comes out. HE don't even have much better stats in TT then everyone else. The thing that sets them apart is all the little special rules they have.

    This is a very good point and often misunderstood about the elven races. They aren't all Legolas.
    They tended to all be M 5 and 1 WS/BS higher than the equivalent tier human....
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,971
    Cirdan said:

    Valkaar said:

    Wait till the game comes out. HE don't even have much better stats in TT then everyone else. The thing that sets them apart is all the little special rules they have. Reavers shoot more if not near enemies, pheonix guards ability to ignore wounds, sword masters ability to deflect arrows. All these little things add up and you can't really see them by looking at just raw stats.

    That...and when you do look at raw stats...i just don't see what the fuss is about anyway...

    Lothern Sea Guard unit card CRUSHES Free Company Militia unit card

    Silver Helms unit card CRUSHES Empire Knight unit card

    Swordmasters unit card CRUSHES Greatswords unit card.

    etc. and so forth.

    I don't know where this impression that High Elf units were going to be low quality came from. They are clearly above average at a minimum. And in many cases, absolutely elite. Phoenix Guard are looking like they are evenly matched with Temple Guard for example.

    Sure, they don't win every unit card comparison with every race. But did anyone really expect them to?

    For example, it doesn't look Swordmasters will be able to defeat Chosen with great weapons. But...just a guess here, Swordmasters could easily cost 200-400 less gold than Chosen and the problem is solved.

    Other matchups seem like the interesting parts will be the asymmetry. High Elves vs Dark Elves for example, the Dark Elf ranged units have way stronger stats, but shorter range, so closing vs keeping distance comes into play. Nets from light magic vs speed. Dark Elf murderous prowess vs High Elves stacking martial prowess with healing.

    These are dynamics where the balance isn't in the stat cards. I dunno, it probably will be imbalanced. Heaven knows Game 1 still isn't balanced, although it's gotten better. But exactly what race/how it's imbalanced is not something people can discern from a couple quest battles.

    Tl;dr: people need to hold their horses and wait.

    First of all, ofcourse we have to wait until the game is finished before we jump to any major conclusions.

    BUT, i don't see your point in why we can't express our concerns about this from what we have seen so far. I think its legitimate to worry about the stats based on what we have seen. If we couldn't do that, is there any point in speculating about anything on this forum at all?

    Secondly how could you know that X crushes Y when we don't know how the final balance will be and what do you base those facts on? And based on the stats we see so far i wouldn't say that mentioned unit crushes the other unit.

    Thirdly, the comparison between the Lothern Sea Guard and Free company miltia is just sad since the Sea Guard is middle tier infantry while Free Company militia is just expendable cannon fodder.

    And lastly Phoenix Guard was among the top 3 best infantry units in TT so they shouldn't be "on par" with the Temple guard.
    So, I do think people can express their concerns. That is one of the purposes of the forums, I agree. Irurobin is one example of somebody doing that in a mostly constructive manner (even if he is excessively cherry picking in his examples...and in some cases simply upset about the "tier placement" of a unit, rather than the balance of the unit)

    But so many of the other posters are literally just saying "High Elfs are worse than Empire/Skaven units" (factually untrue) or "High Elfs WEAK...THEY LOST THE QUEST BATTLE AND DON'T HARD COUNTER EVERYTHING"......ya know just generally....sky-is-falling rants with no evidence that help officially no one.

    So yeah. Balance concerns are valid. CA has shown they aren't great at balancing their games for multiplayer. But 95% of the 'balance discussion' regarding High Elves just seems to be full of uninformed knee-jerk reactions. And I do think that kind of stuff needs to be dialed back.

    As far what 'crushes' another unit, I admittedly am not sure what the most accurate stat-card is to use, but they are from actual stat-card comparisons. I know stat cards do not necessarily equal balance....but people kept arguing that High Elf stat cards were mediocre when that just doesn't seem to be the case. In many comparisons I cited the High Elf version had 20%-40% better in stats in most categories, tied in a couple categories, and maybe was weaker by 10% in a single category. In those cases, the High Elf unit would crush/decisively defeat/counter the other.

    As far as Lothern Sea Guard vs Free Company Militia specifically...I mean, you're right. Those are not the same tiered unit at all. The Sea Guard just should out-class them. It's just, the "High Elfs should be more powerful/more expensive than the Empire and they aren't" complaints that I was finding particularly irksome at the time, so I wanted to make primarily Empire unit comparisons....and Empire just doesn't have a high-tier 'decent melee combatant' missile unit. Free Company Militia were the closest I could get.

    As far as Phoenix Guard...I think that might be a case of people being more upset about the 'tier' rather than the balance. Phoenix Guard do not look like they'll be "best in the game". They look like they'll be high-tier. Maybe top-3/4ish for halberd units. However, so long as they don't cost something absurd, like 1400 gold, they can still be a strong, balanced unit. For me, I never played the tabletop, so as long as they're still strong, and not over-priced, I'm happy, and I think it will be fine....even if it's not the identical relative power ranking the unit held in the tabletop. But if somebody else was particularly invested in the tabletop, I can see why they might be a little annoyed.
  • AbesutAbesut Registered Users Posts: 133
    Izariel said:

    Yeah, the dev just screwed up on that cav and left the dragon princes in combat the whole time without cycle charging. Micro misshap.

    Not to mention that they were being bombarded by flyers.
  • mahboi1mahboi1 Member Registered Users Posts: 773
    Good grief, is it just favouritism? Or are CA really that bad at balancing?

    Considering how much Dwarfs still underperform...
    Sigmar wills it!
  • Horus168Horus168 Registered Users Posts: 578
    mahboi1 said:

    Good grief, is it just favouritism? Or are CA really that bad at balancing?

    Considering how much Dwarfs still underperform...

    There's still over a month to launch, i imagine they'll be busy doing balance testing for most of that time, preparing a day 1 balance patch....
  • CEtonCEton Registered Users Posts: 4
    Why are the dragon princes so slow. A speed of 74 is not even close to their table top speed of 9. These guys are on the finest elven horses and decked out in super light mithril like armor. They should be one of the fastest cav units in the game. WHY ALL THE ELF HATE???
  • GeldorGeldor Registered Users Posts: 1,115
    Valkaar said:

    Cirdan said:

    Valkaar said:

    Wait till the game comes out. HE don't even have much better stats in TT then everyone else. The thing that sets them apart is all the little special rules they have. Reavers shoot more if not near enemies, pheonix guards ability to ignore wounds, sword masters ability to deflect arrows. All these little things add up and you can't really see them by looking at just raw stats.

    That...and when you do look at raw stats...i just don't see what the fuss is about anyway...

    Lothern Sea Guard unit card CRUSHES Free Company Militia unit card

    Silver Helms unit card CRUSHES Empire Knight unit card

    Swordmasters unit card CRUSHES Greatswords unit card.

    etc. and so forth.

    I don't know where this impression that High Elf units were going to be low quality came from. They are clearly above average at a minimum. And in many cases, absolutely elite. Phoenix Guard are looking like they are evenly matched with Temple Guard for example.

    Sure, they don't win every unit card comparison with every race. But did anyone really expect them to?

    For example, it doesn't look Swordmasters will be able to defeat Chosen with great weapons. But...just a guess here, Swordmasters could easily cost 200-400 less gold than Chosen and the problem is solved.

    Other matchups seem like the interesting parts will be the asymmetry. High Elves vs Dark Elves for example, the Dark Elf ranged units have way stronger stats, but shorter range, so closing vs keeping distance comes into play. Nets from light magic vs speed. Dark Elf murderous prowess vs High Elves stacking martial prowess with healing.

    These are dynamics where the balance isn't in the stat cards. I dunno, it probably will be imbalanced. Heaven knows Game 1 still isn't balanced, although it's gotten better. But exactly what race/how it's imbalanced is not something people can discern from a couple quest battles.

    Tl;dr: people need to hold their horses and wait.

    First of all, ofcourse we have to wait until the game is finished before we jump to any major conclusions.

    BUT, i don't see your point in why we can't express our concerns about this from what we have seen so far. I think its legitimate to worry about the stats based on what we have seen. If we couldn't do that, is there any point in speculating about anything on this forum at all?

    Secondly how could you know that X crushes Y when we don't know how the final balance will be and what do you base those facts on? And based on the stats we see so far i wouldn't say that mentioned unit crushes the other unit.

    Thirdly, the comparison between the Lothern Sea Guard and Free company miltia is just sad since the Sea Guard is middle tier infantry while Free Company militia is just expendable cannon fodder.

    And lastly Phoenix Guard was among the top 3 best infantry units in TT so they shouldn't be "on par" with the Temple guard.
    So, I do think people can express their concerns. That is one of the purposes of the forums, I agree. Irurobin is one example of somebody doing that in a mostly constructive manner (even if he is excessively cherry picking in his examples...and in some cases simply upset about the "tier placement" of a unit, rather than the balance of the unit)

    But so many of the other posters are literally just saying "High Elfs are worse than Empire/Skaven units" (factually untrue) or "High Elfs WEAK...THEY LOST THE QUEST BATTLE AND DON'T HARD COUNTER EVERYTHING"......ya know just generally....sky-is-falling rants with no evidence that help officially no one.

    So yeah. Balance concerns are valid. CA has shown they aren't great at balancing their games for multiplayer. But 95% of the 'balance discussion' regarding High Elves just seems to be full of uninformed knee-jerk reactions. And I do think that kind of stuff needs to be dialed back.

    As far what 'crushes' another unit, I admittedly am not sure what the most accurate stat-card is to use, but they are from actual stat-card comparisons. I know stat cards do not necessarily equal balance....but people kept arguing that High Elf stat cards were mediocre when that just doesn't seem to be the case. In many comparisons I cited the High Elf version had 20%-40% better in stats in most categories, tied in a couple categories, and maybe was weaker by 10% in a single category. In those cases, the High Elf unit would crush/decisively defeat/counter the other.

    As far as Lothern Sea Guard vs Free Company Militia specifically...I mean, you're right. Those are not the same tiered unit at all. The Sea Guard just should out-class them. It's just, the "High Elfs should be more powerful/more expensive than the Empire and they aren't" complaints that I was finding particularly irksome at the time, so I wanted to make primarily Empire unit comparisons....and Empire just doesn't have a high-tier 'decent melee combatant' missile unit. Free Company Militia were the closest I could get.

    As far as Phoenix Guard...I think that might be a case of people being more upset about the 'tier' rather than the balance. Phoenix Guard do not look like they'll be "best in the game". They look like they'll be high-tier. Maybe top-3/4ish for halberd units. However, so long as they don't cost something absurd, like 1400 gold, they can still be a strong, balanced unit. For me, I never played the tabletop, so as long as they're still strong, and not over-priced, I'm happy, and I think it will be fine....even if it's not the identical relative power ranking the unit held in the tabletop. But if somebody else was particularly invested in the tabletop, I can see why they might be a little annoyed.
    The problem is that it all comes together. If none of your top units on the TT look that appealing in the game, like Dragon Princes and Phoenix Guard at the moment, and generally seem to have worse stats for some reason than their DE counterparts (Swordmasters compared to Executioners), and their play style changed - from a relatively small sized, really fast glass cannon faction to something like Empire 2.0, with what looks like a very defensive play style a lot of people get concerned.

    And on top of that you have the devs talking about how awesome their archers are - which they are clearly not.

    This is not about one unit or two. It looks like the HE will be really different from why you except if you played the Warhammer.

    Hence a lot of posts like this. If you like the HE there are just a lot of things which can make you concerned/pessimistic at the moment.

    It's not only about the power level.

  • unhappyregistrationunhappyregistration Registered Users Posts: 5
    Doesn't rally matter. If the stats are not good enough CA will patch it. They done a great job so far. I think horse skirmishers will have their role in hunting rage mechanic monsters to be real cost effective. But Dark Riders and the HE counterpart can't be buffed because people will flood social media with how op someone with good micro could use those amazing TT skirmishers.
  • Icebern12Icebern12 Registered Users Posts: 164
    edited August 2017
    I know many people, myself included, have voiced their worries about the high elves in other threads but I just wanted to vent here all my frustration this last weeks about what I've been seeing and how CA chose to approach the HE.

    First of all I think my main problem with elves in general can be tracked down to the original conception CA made of them with the wood elves by giving them more models per unit than they should, which lowered their stats. Just with this simple decision you kill one of the main factors people who play elves like about elves: small elite armies. This is a design issue that can't be rectified at this point.

    But in my opinion CA has specially neglected the high elves in basically everything, almost nothing about them in the promotion of the second game except them being killed left and right by the other 3 factions, no trailer as of now and then we see their roster and animations and realize they have recycled absolutely everything from the wood elves, which wouldn't bother me if they had put some work in the units who are actually different like actual swordmasters animations showing their skill, or the white lion chariot one of the few new models they had to work with, but since it was a chariot pulled by lions and not horses they didn't want to put the money, "scrap that and recycle the tiranoc chariot to make a melee chariot". No lothern skycutter either, because again that would require actual work and money.

    I'm absolutely sure their dragons will be just different colors and textures and they only got the phoenixes in because you have two for the price of one and they also recycled great eagle animations for it, they even made the phoenix smaller than it should be for this purpose.

    Everything I've seen about the high elves screams minimal effort to put the real work on skaven and lizardmen models, even the dark elves got their hydra as they should, but with the high elves they even cut the griffon mount because elven griffons are different from those of the empire, "high elves have too many mounts scrap the griffon we will give them an eagle mount we already have with the wood elves" give me a break. Even when they were revealed getting slaughtered by the lizardmen their textures and lightning looked bad and those shields man... one of the few things they did well when they changed it and the textures now look better, but my concern is that CA thought them once good enough to show them.

    It's as if they make the unit stats according to the money they spent on their models, but the high elves have been the testing punchbag in their office because I'm sure it was the first of the four factions to be "done", and since then they have given them mediocre stats because they are just in CA's eyes "an all around faction" they may have a bit of that but they were also highly elite in the tabletop and right now I don't see that at all. They play completely different from how they should with that defensive bonus when high elves were super killy with their always strike first just like... you know any other elf faction. But CA is saying their standard archers are just great, even if they were, which they are not, I don't want my high elf normal archers to be good. In the tabletop they were fairly mediocre for an elf archer. What high elves had was elite infantry that murdered you in close combat, their spearmen were good on the attack, not on the defense, and their cavalry was great also.

    More than anything it hurts me how they've been sidelined when they were one of the most popular factions in tabletop and very important in all the lore of warhammer. Stats can be changed. But the actual models and work put into them that's another thing.

    I don't even understand this decision from a commercial standpoint, the high elves are the only relatable faction in this game for the people who just "want to be the good guys".

    Salty rant over.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,151
    I disagree, but to each their own.
    Later
  • GunKingGunKing Registered Users Posts: 597
    Relax. SFO mod will fix Elves. Fixes a lot of things actually.
  • irurobinirurobin Registered Users Posts: 1,826
    I believe we will get our kick ass trailer one day. :'(

    It triggers me when I saw dark elves getting 115 armour and straight up better stats. Martial Prowess gives me the impression of a time bomb rather than a buff.

    I don't mind paying extra for shadow warriors, sisters of Averlon and white lion chariots but I do mind waiting. x__x
  • Icebern12Icebern12 Registered Users Posts: 164
    irurobin said:

    I believe we will get our kick ass trailer one day. :'(

    It triggers me when I saw dark elves getting 115 armour and straight up better stats. Martial Prowess gives me the impression of a time bomb rather than a buff.

    I don't mind paying extra for shadow warriors, sisters of Averlon and white lion chariots but I do mind waiting. x__x

    Dude white lion chariots won't come, we already have the recycled tiranoc chariot pulled by horses repurposed to be a melee chariot, which was the white lion chariot function. They won't give us another melee chariot pulled by lions when we have the awesomely generic one pulled by horses they invented to save money.


    We will never have this.
  • IcestrugleIcestrugle Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,168
    edited August 2017
    There are still 5 weeks. Don't understand why people are complaining. And really people stop saying stupid childish things like elf things are boring, good elf is a dead elf. Really tired of **** comments.
  • ValeliValeli Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,956
    edited August 2017
    Agree with CnConrad (except I don't think they're boring...).

    My only real issue is that griffons were left out, and really should have been in. And shadow warriors. Am sure at least one is being saved for DLC though.

    It's true they didn't get as much promo up to this point as any of the other races, but does that actually matter? Like, how does a race's amount of video time impact your gaming experience with them at all? You're apparently already quite hyped to play them if this is upsetting you, and getting people hyped is the only actual point of a promo....

    I wouldn't complain about the stats until they're out and you have a chance to actually play with it either...

    I'm also not all that surprised that some animations were reused where possible. At the risk of sounding like an apologist for CA which I honestly don't want to be, a lot of new animation time did have to go into the skaven and dinosaurs. I'd rather they put the time into doing that and reuse a bit of existing animations that aren't awful than end up making the HE a little bit more unique and the other two factions a good deal worse.

    Obviously, ideally, the game wouldn't be released until everything was perfectly done and implemented. But reality works on timelimes and various other constraints. I'm not at all convinced that any of the dropped stuff or "cheaply reused" stuff ruins the race and/or it's gameplay though.
  • IcestrugleIcestrugle Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,168
    Icebern12 said:

    irurobin said:

    I believe we will get our kick ass trailer one day. :'(

    It triggers me when I saw dark elves getting 115 armour and straight up better stats. Martial Prowess gives me the impression of a time bomb rather than a buff.

    I don't mind paying extra for shadow warriors, sisters of Averlon and white lion chariots but I do mind waiting. x__x

    Dude white lion chariots won't come, we already have the recycled tiranoc chariot pulled by horses repurposed to be a melee chariot, which was the white lion chariot function. They won't give us another melee chariot pulled by lions when we have the awesomely generic one pulled by horses they invented to save money.


    We will never have this.
    White lion could be anti large chariots. There are white wolf chariots already, with bad animations, but probably they are working on the animations for white lions than improve the white wolf ones
  • Icebern12Icebern12 Registered Users Posts: 164

    Icebern12 said:

    irurobin said:

    I believe we will get our kick ass trailer one day. :'(

    It triggers me when I saw dark elves getting 115 armour and straight up better stats. Martial Prowess gives me the impression of a time bomb rather than a buff.

    I don't mind paying extra for shadow warriors, sisters of Averlon and white lion chariots but I do mind waiting. x__x

    Dude white lion chariots won't come, we already have the recycled tiranoc chariot pulled by horses repurposed to be a melee chariot, which was the white lion chariot function. They won't give us another melee chariot pulled by lions when we have the awesomely generic one pulled by horses they invented to save money.


    We will never have this.
    White lion could be anti large chariots. There are white wolf chariots already, with bad animations, but probably they are working on the animations for white lions than improve the white wolf ones
    I hope you are right.
  • irurobinirurobin Registered Users Posts: 1,826
    @Icebern12

    I am sure CA will be motivated when they see cash in DLC so I still think we will see the White Lions. :p:p

    Griffons on the other hand I just don't get it. High Elves noble might become useless in MP because of this strange decision.
  • NobleGunnerNobleGunner Registered Users Posts: 739
    Yeah not sure why executioners have so much more armor then swordmasters!?
  • PrayPray Registered Users Posts: 1,354

    Icebern12 said:

    irurobin said:

    I believe we will get our kick ass trailer one day. :'(

    It triggers me when I saw dark elves getting 115 armour and straight up better stats. Martial Prowess gives me the impression of a time bomb rather than a buff.

    I don't mind paying extra for shadow warriors, sisters of Averlon and white lion chariots but I do mind waiting. x__x

    Dude white lion chariots won't come, we already have the recycled tiranoc chariot pulled by horses repurposed to be a melee chariot, which was the white lion chariot function. They won't give us another melee chariot pulled by lions when we have the awesomely generic one pulled by horses they invented to save money.


    We will never have this.
    White lion could be anti large chariots. There are white wolf chariots already, with bad animations, but probably they are working on the animations for white lions than improve the white wolf ones
    White lion can use Demigryph animation they are same except head.
  • IcestrugleIcestrugle Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,168
    Pray said:

    Icebern12 said:

    irurobin said:

    I believe we will get our kick ass trailer one day. :'(

    It triggers me when I saw dark elves getting 115 armour and straight up better stats. Martial Prowess gives me the impression of a time bomb rather than a buff.

    I don't mind paying extra for shadow warriors, sisters of Averlon and white lion chariots but I do mind waiting. x__x

    Dude white lion chariots won't come, we already have the recycled tiranoc chariot pulled by horses repurposed to be a melee chariot, which was the white lion chariot function. They won't give us another melee chariot pulled by lions when we have the awesomely generic one pulled by horses they invented to save money.


    We will never have this.
    White lion could be anti large chariots. There are white wolf chariots already, with bad animations, but probably they are working on the animations for white lions than improve the white wolf ones
    White lion can use Demigryph animation they are same except head.
    Yea but I am wondering where are the white wolf one's?
  • SchusselSchussel Registered Users Posts: 750
    edited August 2017
    Icebern12 said:



    I don't even understand this decision from a commercial standpoint, the high elves are the only relatable faction in this game for the people who just "want to be the good guys".
    .

    But you know that in Warhammer the High Elves are not the good guys.




  • IcestrugleIcestrugle Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,168
    Schussel said:

    Icebern12 said:



    I don't even understand this decision from a commercial standpoint, the high elves are the only relatable faction in this game for the people who just "want to be the good guys".
    .

    But you know that in Warhammer the High Elves are not the good guys.
    You can they are the good race compared to others. Human race have done a lot of horrible things, and we are not marked as a bad race, even we are destroying the others races on the planet. They care about they own race and the concerns of the world. Really comparing with Chaos, skaven or dark elves they are angels.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,004
    Speaking as a primarily HE and LM player back when I played TT...

    Do we really need another of these threads when there's one still on the front page? Really?

    And if we do, can we at least try to keep it constructive rather than throwing around conspiracy theories about how CA is trying to shaft the High Elves under the table? What do you think should be changed, specifically (or at least as specific as possible)?

    We've got the Dragon Prince move speed thread. That's at least constructive.

    irurobin raised the Dark Elves having 115 armour. Is that, perhaps, balanced by Dragon Princes and Phoenix Guard having physical resistance - quite high in the latter case? Should that be higher? Or should we be calling for the physical resistance to be converted into a full-on ward save to represent High Elves also being fairly well protected against magic? How much of a tradeoff is protection from magic worth if we did push for that?

    I believe I've seen an Executioner-Swordmaster comparison made. Looking at their stats, it does look as if Executioners and Black Guard might have both been placed at tier 4, which makes a certain amount of sense given that the Dark Elves have just that many more melee infantry units to fill in the lower tiers, while High Elves pretty much just go Spearmen-White Lions-Swordmasters-Phoenix Guard. So while in the TT Swordmasters should be better (certainly when it comes down to fighting one-wound opponents), this may simply be a question of the Swordmasters being a tier down and balanced accordingly. Not really lore or tabletop appropriate, but such a balancing decision does not necessarily mean that the HEs are being shortchanged as a race.

    If Executioners are at the same tier as Swordmasters, then we should open the floodgates of complaints. But if they're a tier up... well, there are a lot of cases of units having lower stats then they probably should in order to fit in a lower tier. The Asur elite infantry are hardly being specifically cut down here.
  • SchusselSchussel Registered Users Posts: 750
    Icebern12 said:

    I
    First of all I think my main problem with elves in general can be tracked down to the original conception CA made of them with the wood elves by giving them more models per unit than they should, which lowered their stats. Just with this simple decision you kill one of the main factors people who play elves like about elves: small elite armies. This is a design issue that can't be rectified at this point.

    But you know that in TT a normal Solider Model only got 1 HP so the Elves where harder to hit but if you had hit them they are dead.


    Anyways its not TT its Total War so Units have 4000-8000 HP and consist of 80-160 Soldiers

    So what would happen if you reduce the Amount of Soldiers in one Unit but keep the HP in the same hight.
    You get something similar to Minotaurs, Trolls, etc.
    Units that can be healed all the time, don't break that easily (because they don't loose Soliders only HP)

    Its just a guess but maybe CA designed the Elves in that way for balancing reasons and to make them fit into a Total War Game. Because Units of 40 Elves that function in Game similar to Minotaurs or other Big Monsters would be a bit unrealistc, unbalanced.
  • irurobinirurobin Registered Users Posts: 1,826
    @Draxynnic

    Longbeards - 95, Chaos warriors - 100, Black Orcs - 110.

    Somehow Dark Elves are better armored then Dwarfs and Chaos. o____o!

    I really hate campaign progression. =A=
This discussion has been closed.