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Total War Warhammer 2 - How will Regional occupation effect the Wood Elves and Norscans?

BoldElfBoldElf Registered Users Posts: 191
HI all after reading some of the changes that will be coming with TWW2 I was wondering if anyone knows how the regional occupation and settlement size change will effect Wood Elves and the Norscans?

The reason I am asking is because at the moment Wood elves can capture any territory but out side of Athel Loren then can only build outposts which are 2 slots (1 if you don't include the 1st slot) only allowing for one of their 5 outpost buildings or none if it is a port town. So I guess my question is will the Wood Elves be given proper settlements now or will their outposts just gain extra slots and if so how many or will it remain as is but they will be unaffected by the climate mechanic?

Personally I like how they work now but if everyone is able to capture the entire map in TWW2 then I would have thought they would have some benefit to make their territory captures still remain unique as I don't think in the lore they have any settlements out side of Athel Loren (except outposts but correct me if I am wrong).

Personally I think they should remain the same but they should have no climate penalty. I think that would still give them their outpost flair to make them stand out in their occupation. But what does everyone else think?


Additionally does anyone know how/if these changes will effect the Norscan tribes? I personally haven't played the mod that allows all territory capture in TWW1 but I have heard this makes the Norscans very powerful/OP as they are aggressive and get huge stacks fast. Keep in mind I am unaware how much the climate mechanic will effect factions when they inhabit regions they are not use to/don't like so this might make the Norscan AI less inclined to land grab as it is.

I don't think the fact that their settlements will most likely become max 6 in size instead of 4 (atm all Norscan settlements including capitals are only 4 in size none are 6 so I assume they would scale accordingly) will effect their game play that much but if they are capable of capturing any territory this could make them OP unless they are coded to mainly sack/raze settlements much like they do now but occasionally take settlements. Much like how Wood Elves were changed to be more isolationist (due to their very aggressive nature on release which didn't suit their style lore wise) .

So does anyone know if they will be able to capture all territories like the other factions or since they are an AI faction only just have certain territories still much like how they currently are?

I wouldn't mind them being able to capture any territory but I would think they shouldn't be able to build up the cities as well as the other factions if they do capture one but I think they should be more inclined to just raid,sack and raise the cities in most cases. What do you guys think?

Thanks in advance if anyone has a definite answer from CA about my questions :).

and GL HF to all hope you are all as hyped for TWW2 as I am :D

Comments

  • bli-nkbli-nk Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,850
    edited June 2017
    We don't know if Norscans will have much presence in the New World as other than Skeggi they haven't been mentioned at all. I would expect a couple factions at Skeggi and then north of Naggaroth but not nearly as active a presence as in the Old World and probably with pretty strong climate restrictions in the New World (lots of jungles).

    In the eventual combined maps... that is alot more interesting question and not only for Norscans but also WE and pretty much all the races but especially Skaven. Raising minor settlements from 4 to 6 will that mean WE outposts go from 2 to 4, that would be a pretty big deal for their power outside of Athel Loren even if in many areas climactic restrictions kept them at 2 or 3 having 1/4 the map able to support 4 slots would be a big change.

    Skaven theoretically would have the least amount of climate restrictions... maybe deserts and ice? Jungles, mountains with snow, plains- not many areas Skaven won't settle.

    Norscans in the Old World do raise large armies very quickly and are the most aggressive re-colonizers of the base game so could theoretically take over large parts of the map quite quickly without heavy climate restrictions. I'd hope for Norscans that they might get 4-5 slot capitols but be similar to WE for the smaller regions having only enough population to occupy 2 slots.
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  • lucibuislucibuis Registered Users Posts: 7,134
    I also wonder this... if they are left unchanged, they'd be at a big disadvantage. Since the number of building slots is increased, we need the outposts to have more slots and better defensive buildings
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  • Bel_KorhadrisBel_Korhadris Registered Users Posts: 30
    Ichon said:



    Skaven theoretically would have the least amount of climate restrictions... maybe deserts and ice? Jungles, mountains with snow, plains- not many areas Skaven won't settle.

    .

    This raises the whole question of how Skaven are going to be implemented on the campaign map. In-lore they mostly live underground, often in dark mirrors of the surface settlements of the other races, and have very few above-ground settlements. How on earth is the whole Under-Empire thing going to work? Will there be an underground map level, as some have suggested? Will there by Undercities beneath Empire towns, for instance, with some sort of corruption/Skaven infestation meter? I will be very disappointed if it's reduced to something as cheap as an Underway/Beastpath/Worldroots stance, and otherwise Skaven just take surface cities like a regular faction.
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 7,283
    lucibuis said:

    I also wonder this... if they are left unchanged, they'd be at a big disadvantage. Since the number of building slots is increased, we need the outposts to have more slots and better defensive buildings

    Aren't the Outposts meant to be weak?
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • BoldElfBoldElf Registered Users Posts: 191
    lucibuis said:

    I also wonder this... if they are left unchanged, they'd be at a big disadvantage. Since the number of building slots is increased, we need the outposts to have more slots and better defensive buildings

    It might not be much of a disadvantage depending on how much the other races are effected by climates. If the outposts have no climate effects then they might feel exactly the same as they do now just little help points but you can take anywhere.

    Ichon said:



    Skaven theoretically would have the least amount of climate restrictions... maybe deserts and ice? Jungles, mountains with snow, plains- not many areas Skaven won't settle.

    .

    This raises the whole question of how Skaven are going to be implemented on the campaign map. In-lore they mostly live underground, often in dark mirrors of the surface settlements of the other races, and have very few above-ground settlements. How on earth is the whole Under-Empire thing going to work? Will there be an underground map level, as some have suggested? Will there by Undercities beneath Empire towns, for instance, with some sort of corruption/Skaven infestation meter? I will be very disappointed if it's reduced to something as cheap as an Underway/Beastpath/Worldroots stance, and otherwise Skaven just take surface cities like a regular faction.
    I recall them saying when making the 1st game they wont be doing an underground map. I think they will be much like the dwarfs but I think they will have their own form of corruption that could allow you to take cities a lot easier or even infest them and take over without having to fight. If they can infest a city to the point that all the defense units die of plague etc you can take cities with out fighting much like how you take a fresh city of AI etc if the garrison hasn't replenish you just get the option to take it raze it etc. I think this would be good for them as it also implies they are infesting the city from within. as for underway stance I think they will get one just like that but it might make them invisible much like beast men's hidden encampment and possibly have a very low chance of being caught or no chance but this is just speculation. There is a lot they can do with Skaven but to not get off topic probably best not to go into too much detail in this thread :)

  • SecuterSecuter Senior Member Denmark, Aarhus.Registered Users Posts: 2,383
    The Norscans could be given the same restrictions as the WE. They usually didn't move out of Norsca unless it was for raiding. Allowing them outposts would be fine - or even better, only allowing to grab land port cities. They are afterall pirate like marauders.
  • BoldElfBoldElf Registered Users Posts: 191
    We have information on how Norscan Settlements will work in TWW1. I assume that Norscans and Wood elves will remain the same and just not suffer the regional occupancy debuffs that the others will suffer but would be nice to get that from an official source
  • twwatchertwwatcher Registered Users Posts: 2,722
    Looks like you will need to do a fair bit of razing building monoliths to get the gods onside, this seems tided in with the victory conditions so it wont be all about building up settlements by the sounds of it for Norsca.

    With the way WE and Norsca look in TWW, I would think that this has been influenced by how RO will work in TWW 2 for them with the minimum of change - its just more work if they had not taken this account when designing the later TWW races in the first place.

    I guess for the later races, as a human race Bretonnia will have the biggest shake up regarding RO.
  • BoldElfBoldElf Registered Users Posts: 191
    Anyone heard any updates about this?
  • JowenJowen Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 430
    edited September 2017
    I hope nothing is changed for these two factions.

    The Wood Elves outposts still enable them to refresh their armies and add to their economy without the need to build a town.

    The Norscan outposts are perfect for launching raids in neighboring regions, which is the right way for them to make money anyhow.

    I do not see these as being disadvantageous at all.
  • coffeecake13coffeecake13 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 481
    Norscan outposts can be defended with a sizable garrison. Wood elf outposts cant. Because your concurrent owned lands = how big your cities can be, how much you can upgrade the oak of ages, how much technology you can have, and how many high tier units you can have it is an issue of a whole other caliber than the norscan outposts.

  • TheInsaniacTheInsaniac Registered Users Posts: 36
    Given that there are WE factions in the new world map, I think they'll be able to occupy a single terrain type and need to build outposts everywhere else.
  • GCRustGCRust Registered Users Posts: 604
    The biggest thing I see for the Wood Elves is the sheer size of the Combined Map is going to make any conquest game an absolute nightmare. You're going to have a lot of armies camped out guarding regions to prevent Skaven and Beastmen from burning your support structure down behind you.
  • SarmatiannsSarmatianns Registered Users Posts: 4,809
    On the flip side, there's gonna be a whole lot of potential new allies for the Amber.

    Once you get going, losing an outpost isn't really a problem, precisely because they're so unimportant. Lose one capture another. Athel Loren have huuuuuge garrisons, with one army you defend all of it.

    All your other armies are out there, conquering new settlements every turn.

    Recruitment system for WE is such that with right technology you only wait a single turn for recruitment of basic units anyway, wherever you are on the map.

    I think with current setup, size of map is inconsequential for WE. If anything, they will be stronger.

    Norsca might have problems.
  • BoldElfBoldElf Registered Users Posts: 191
    I like the way Norsca and Wood Elves work at the moment it gives them a nice unique flair to them. But I will say CA haven't let me down yet so what ever they do I am sure will be good I just want to know lol
  • DMFan79DMFan79 ItalyRegistered Users Posts: 407
    BoldElf said:

    I like the way Norsca and Wood Elves work at the moment it gives them a nice unique flair to them. But I will say CA haven't let me down yet so what ever they do I am sure will be good I just want to know lol

    If you've got OCD, Norsca can be a nightmare though...
  • PancakesPancakes Registered Users Posts: 378
    BoldElf said:

    Anyone heard any updates about this?

    Norscan won't be in TW:WH2 grand campaign.
    When the combined campaign launches they won't be included in it. But are planned to be added later in the life cycle of the game.
    They were cut, reason being something to do with how they were implemented late in TW:WH1
    So expect them to be figured out in 6 months or so, but plenty of time for details between now and then.
  • BoldElfBoldElf Registered Users Posts: 191
    Pancakes said:

    BoldElf said:

    Anyone heard any updates about this?

    Norscan won't be in TW:WH2 grand campaign.
    When the combined campaign launches they won't be included in it. But are planned to be added later in the life cycle of the game.
    They were cut, reason being something to do with how they were implemented late in TW:WH1
    So expect them to be figured out in 6 months or so, but plenty of time for details between now and then.
    I read that but it still doesn't effect my question :P lol.
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