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queek on legendary is......impossible??

yowsaman14yowsaman14 Registered Users Posts: 7
ok well i'm getting frustrated...

i really like the skaven race and the queek character but playing him on legendary is really really.... well almost impossible.
i've been doing a campaign for the 7th time now and every time i come around turn 80 i'm getting hammered by either the lizardmen (last defenders) or the high elves (tor elesor).

they alway's come with at least 3 full stacks vs my strong 1 stack (wich can handle the full stacks) and my 1 low skaven stack. everytime i defeat those stacks i try to conceur their land but it's almost impossible at the rate they pump out units and control regions. you geth stuck with your one province and dont have the income to make another strong stack to attack their settlement.

as it is challenging it kinda gets bored being in the defence all the time. and the strange thing is that i read everywhere skaven ar so strong when they are played as an AI...

is this normal? i played all races on legendary in TWW I and did not had this much difficulty as with the skaven campaign.

in my eyes the other skaven factions where queek starts geth hammered to quickly by the lizardmen early game which in term turns you to the bigg badie in the region and atracting all other factions like a magnet in attacking you...

anyone else know how to tackle this campaign on queek?
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Comments

  • TotalWarChakaxTotalWarChakax Registered Users Posts: 601
    Lower diffculity if its too hard?
  • PrayPray Registered Users Posts: 1,459
    actually it happened to every faction except The last defender since on legendary AI got 60% income and player got 30% upkeep increase also 15% additional upkeep per army. so old game just 5 %.
  • adreeasaadreeasa Registered Users Posts: 82
    edited October 2017
    Maybe you don't have to play the game on "uber cheese AI mode " ? Get a mod that tones down the AI cheating like crazy or go down to VH diff ?

    Or do you enjoy the whole e-peen concept of LEGENDARY more than the actual game ?
  • HurricaneAndrewHurricaneAndrew Member Registered Users Posts: 185
    you can try to give yourself a little help with mods, maybe a mod that removes the extra army upkeep so you can muster more armies to fight.
  • MrMecHMrMecH Registered Users Posts: 2,297
    Even Very Hard mode gonna made my blood split from a mouth. Game2 upkeep cheating is very upset.
    SHUT UP GIVE US GHORGON!!!!!

  • adreeasaadreeasa Registered Users Posts: 82
    I bet that if CA created some unique shiny legendary elite bla bla difficulty where the AI gets stacks of 50 dragons each turn and the player can only recruit skavenslaves we would still have some guys hitting their heads against that wall only to get a steam achievement.
  • DMFan79DMFan79 ItalyRegistered Users Posts: 404
    You struggle on Very Hard too.

    I've started another campaign with Queek yesterday evening. I've had a great start, but I committed the mistake of not creating a new army as soon as I could afford it. The result is the lizards took three settlements from me.

    Tonight I'll try to give them some retribution...
  • PrayPray Registered Users Posts: 1,459
    adreeasa said:

    I bet that if CA created some unique shiny legendary elite bla bla difficulty where the AI gets stacks of 50 dragons each turn and the player can only recruit skavenslaves we would still have some guys hitting their heads against that wall only to get a steam achievement.

    :* ok it still not 50 Dragon
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/74ufnt/thats_a_nice_intervention_army_for_my_first_ritual/
  • yowsaman14yowsaman14 Registered Users Posts: 7
    well i like the fact of legendary that you cant save and restart if you made a mistake. it's the only way i played the first game.

    ok it has to be verry difficult cause it's legendary, but are you not suppose to still be able to finish the game? it's kinda strange you can handle all those full stacks with your one strong stack of skaven gutter runners, stormvermin, etc... but cant expand cause your financialy not able.

    skaven suppose to swarm the world :)

    i'll give it a try on verry hard then first as you guy's say it's also a challenge.

    damn that krok qar and his dino loving friends :)
  • Frank9945671Frank9945671 Registered Users Posts: 174
    edited October 2017
    Yes, it's possible. I done it(won as Queek and some other characters) on legendary difficulty and with very hard battles. If u can't play legendary just don't do this.
  • DMFan79DMFan79 ItalyRegistered Users Posts: 404

    Yes, it's possible. I done it(won as Queek and some other characters) on legendary difficulty and with very hard battles. If u can't play legendary just don't do this.

    I don't like the tone of people like you. Each game is different, so you might have been just lucky.
  • yowsaman14yowsaman14 Registered Users Posts: 7

    Yes, it's possible. I done it(won as Queek and some other characters) on legendary difficulty and with very hard battles. If u can't play legendary just don't do this.

    enlighten me on how you did it then.

    i played the first game only on legendary i'm just strugling to find the right tactic to handle all those invaders and still be in the running for the rituals

  • VernichterVernichter Registered Users Posts: 24
    I dont play on legenderey, but in very hard. So one advice: pillage. Try to get one stack to a other continent and start to pillage cities of minor factions. So you get the money for bigger armies and better economy. A big pillaged city can give you 50.000 Gold. Dont destroy these factions, just darm them. So i did with the dark elfes in "africa". Colonialstyle.
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 8,936
    Dude is looking for advice on how to win on Legendary and gets fed, multiple times, the advice of playing on a lower difficulty. Not exactly helpful. I wish I could help you but the one time I tried a Queek campaign even just on Very Hard I got rolfstomped by the Elves off of the west coast.

    The only general advice I can give you is that on those higher difficulties is that once you've gone to war with a faction, most of the time, you want to drive them to extinction before you take your foot off the gas. Because you have a limited capacity to defend from multiple sides at the same time you want to isolate a direction that you're going to get hit from and the number of enemies you have as well. So if at all possible wipe the Elves out before concentrating on the mainland again.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • yowsaman14yowsaman14 Registered Users Posts: 7
    RikRiorik said:

    Dude is looking for advice on how to win on Legendary and gets fed, multiple times, the advice of playing on a lower difficulty. Not exactly helpful. I wish I could help you but the one time I tried a Queek campaign even just on Very Hard I got rolfstomped by the Elves off of the west coast.

    The only general advice I can give you is that on those higher difficulties is that once you've gone to war with a faction, most of the time, you want to drive them to extinction before you take your foot off the gas. Because you have a limited capacity to defend from multiple sides at the same time you want to isolate a direction that you're going to get hit from and the number of enemies you have as well. So if at all possible wipe the Elves out before concentrating on the mainland again.

    tried that .... wont help :) the problem is that they make to quick their stacks back before you can hit them hard and krok qar is a real pain in the ass as he alway's declares war on you.

  • VernichterVernichter Registered Users Posts: 24

    RikRiorik said:

    Dude is looking for advice on how to win on Legendary and gets fed, multiple times, the advice of playing on a lower difficulty. Not exactly helpful. I wish I could help you but the one time I tried a Queek campaign even just on Very Hard I got rolfstomped by the Elves off of the west coast.

    The only general advice I can give you is that on those higher difficulties is that once you've gone to war with a faction, most of the time, you want to drive them to extinction before you take your foot off the gas. Because you have a limited capacity to defend from multiple sides at the same time you want to isolate a direction that you're going to get hit from and the number of enemies you have as well. So if at all possible wipe the Elves out before concentrating on the mainland again.

    tried that .... wont help :) the problem is that they make to quick their stacks back before you can hit them hard and krok qar is a real pain in the ass as he alway's declares war on you.

    Which turn? Maybe to start a fast war at the start of the game? Just sailing to their mainisland? My problem is that i dont want to play vanilla anymore. Radious mod is aviable now and there is a diffrent balance.
  • CaptainleeCaptainlee Registered Users Posts: 98
    edited October 2017
    Don't know if you have time before they destroy you, to get a plague priest (via the ritual), but I would assume infecting their colonies with a plague might help? They take pretty decent amount of army attrition & income reduction. Might help you give the edge you need to win.

    edit: I haven't played with Queek on legendary myself, only on hard, but just trying to think along here :)
  • ArchayArchay Member Registered Users Posts: 206
    Whats your army composition? I can tell how my campaign went.

    At turn ~65 I was at war (not by choice I was trying to pay off Tor Elasor and lizards but that didn't help much) with tor elasor (top 4 faction), last defenders (top 5 faction) and brotherhood of necrach or something (top 1-2 don't remember now) and I had 1 rogue army raiding my province.

    At that time I held my home province (southern Jungles), Jungles of gods, and western jungles. Had 2 stacks, Queek with his 2 storm vermin, various clan rat variations, 1 warpfire thrower, 3 warp cannons and 3 rat ogre units. 2nd stack x4 warp cannons x3 rat ogres and rest various clan rats, with warlord.

    I know that my northern regions are poorly developed so I decided to abandon it (I abandon everything that I have north of my capital, I know that it will buy me additional ~7-9 turns) and bring my 2nd stack to home province(middle of it so I can reach other two poorly defended settlements, start building walls in my capital).

    Queek is in Jungle of Gods. I send him to deal with rogue army near by. Tor elasor sends 4 stacks made out of archers, swordmasters, dragons and arty. Lizards invade from east, north east direction as expected and start occupying my territory.

    Elves are looking where to disembark and wants to land in my port town (southern jungles) I move my army to meet them but they decided(3 out of 4 stacks, 1 stack sails north) to disembark bit south (still southern jungles) in march stance (grave error). When this happens my 2nd lord demolishes 2 tor elasor armies (not even close). Warp cannons each kill at least ~200 units per battle and dragons kinda suck and have hard time dealing with clan rats and concentrated arty fire. I used clan rat spawns to prolong and disrupt their battle lines so they clump up more and cannons make short work of them.

    Meanwhile Queek sails for Tor elasor capital (I know its my only chance considering how economically strong Tor elasor is and I have to brake their dragon,swordmaster production) and sieges it. They sally out to fight me (they were building 5th stack but had it only at half strength) get pushed back and in two turns Tor elasor capital is no more. With two and a half stacks down and no capital Tor elasor is at pitiful 22 position power wise. I proceed to exterminate HE in their islands with queek.

    Meanwhile my 2nd stack deals with 3rd stack of elves in mainland and I lose almost all of my north except for 1-2 capital cities which are under siege. 4th elves stack tries to disembark in southern jungle (since lizards control everything up north) but its already too late for them. Tor Elasor is no more...

    And after that it was a breeze.For about next 20-30 turns (local dwarfs and wood elves decided to fight me as well) I retook entire north, kingdom of beast, half of shifting sands, heart of jungle, dwarf mountains, red rivers... Everybody(mostly undead, other scaven and DE) wants to be my friend now, game is ez now...
  • yowsaman14yowsaman14 Registered Users Posts: 7
    Archay said:

    Whats your army composition? I can tell how my campaign went.

    At turn ~65 I was at war (not by choice I was trying to pay off Tor Elasor and lizards but that didn't help much) with tor elasor (top 4 faction), last defenders (top 5 faction) and brotherhood of necrach or something (top 1-2 don't remember now) and I had 1 rogue army raiding my province.

    At that time I held my home province (southern Jungles), Jungles of gods, and western jungles. Had 2 stacks, Queek with his 2 storm vermin, various clan rat variations, 1 warpfire thrower, 3 warp cannons and 3 rat ogre units. 2nd stack x4 warp cannons x3 rat ogres and rest various clan rats, with warlord.

    I know that my northern regions are poorly developed so I decided to abandon it (I abandon everything that I have north of my capital, I know that it will buy me additional ~7-9 turns) and bring my 2nd stack to home province(middle of it so I can reach other two poorly defended settlements, start building walls in my capital).

    Queek is in Jungle of Gods. I send him to deal with rogue army near by. Tor elasor sends 4 stacks made out of archers, swordmasters, dragons and arty. Lizards invade from east, north east direction as expected and start occupying my territory.

    Elves are looking where to disembark and wants to land in my port town (southern jungles) I move my army to meet them but they decided(3 out of 4 stacks, 1 stack sails north) to disembark bit south (still southern jungles) in march stance (grave error). When this happens my 2nd lord demolishes 2 tor elasor armies (not even close). Warp cannons each kill at least ~200 units per battle and dragons kinda suck and have hard time dealing with clan rats and concentrated arty fire. I used clan rat spawns to prolong and disrupt their battle lines so they clump up more and cannons make short work of them.

    Meanwhile Queek sails for Tor elasor capital (I know its my only chance considering how economically strong Tor elasor is and I have to brake their dragon,swordmaster production) and sieges it. They sally out to fight me (they were building 5th stack but had it only at half strength) get pushed back and in two turns Tor elasor capital is no more. With two and a half stacks down and no capital Tor elasor is at pitiful 22 position power wise. I proceed to exterminate HE in their islands with queek.

    Meanwhile my 2nd stack deals with 3rd stack of elves in mainland and I lose almost all of my north except for 1-2 capital cities which are under siege. 4th elves stack tries to disembark in southern jungle (since lizards control everything up north) but its already too late for them. Tor Elasor is no more...

    And after that it was a breeze.For about next 20-30 turns (local dwarfs and wood elves decided to fight me as well) I retook entire north, kingdom of beast, half of shifting sands, heart of jungle, dwarf mountains, red rivers... Everybody(mostly undead, other scaven and DE) wants to be my friend now, game is ez now...

    what is your build for your first province?

    i read that poison is good vs lizardmen and gutter runners are golden. so are assasins. so i try to go for those in combo with clanrats. the only problem is their upkeep. i can only affort one stack of that. my second stack is only a few clanrats and skaven slaves to back up my queek stack.

  • ArchayArchay Member Registered Users Posts: 206
    I never bothered with gutter runners as i had no time, nor money. My only aim was to get rat ogres rolling, so I can somehow deal with ranged units (+ summoned clan rats) and warp cannons, everything else clan rats (Queek gets 50% off of clan rat unkeep so they cost like 70g per unit). Similar composition for 2nd stack ogres, cannons and clan rats.

    I've researched almost everything there was to buff clan rats and had Queek modified in a such way that he could instantly recruit gold 1 rank clan rats (gold 3 later on). Clan rats were almost never routing and fought almost to the bitter end.

    I also tried to keep my public order in check with skaven corruption. Had not a single rebellion.
  • RenegadeKnightRenegadeKnight Registered Users Posts: 161
    What I do to start is pick up a greyseer turn 1 and start picking up some slaves for a cheap army to clean up rebellions as I go. Take queeks army and blitz to the caverns of sotek. Don't be afraid of the power bar, most of the time it's wrong and you can win that battle. Pick up clan rats for queek when he's in your territory and slaves when he's not. As you take cities use the food to raise the pop so that you can get tech and walls early. The benefit of the tech and defenses out weights the debuff from low food. Once you have the caverns of sotek start building gutter runners to deal with the lizards, poison is ideal but you can make use of regular gutter runners if you have to. You should also recruit an assassin and send them to find clan pestilence . There are alot of trade goods in the southlands and pestilence is your only reliable trading partner.
  • wingren013wingren013 Registered Users Posts: 1,006
    edited October 2017
    Whats your Army comps look like? You should be able to comfortably support three armies with just the southern part of the Southlands.

    Also the key to Skaven camapigns is to get enough lords to a high enough level to get the +40% income factionwide trait. You can play defensively until then if you need to.
  • BobgoblinBobgoblin Registered Users Posts: 270
    I use the Skaven Assassins to attack armies using the attack units ability. Once the Assassins are fully buffed they take a huge chunk out of opposing armies.

    Once the opposing armies are weakened, I can beat them with less losses and rebuild my attacking army fast enough to attack enemy settlements before they rebuild forces.

    I don't play legendary though so not sure if this tactic will work as well for you.
  • IcestrugleIcestrugle Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,214
    I am playing always on very hard, and for skaven I offer you a single advice. Ambush the hell of it.
  • yowsaman14yowsaman14 Registered Users Posts: 7
    tnx for al the advice guy's!

    i'l try again later and just play defence ti'll late game i guess.

    maybe try a campaign on skroll in legendary. been reading that he has a little bit better starting point.

  • TempestWolfTempestWolf Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 967
    edited October 2017
    What difficulties are you encountering exactly? Remember... warp lightning canons and plague claws rip half the enemy army before it reaches your line... 2 units of poisoned wind globadeers melt any large monster in a few volleys and Skaven can fortify ALL settlements without losing income (the fortification has 80 income, same as the green buildings). Eat artillery with menace below.

    Now, the first few battle mentions might not work as well on Legendary, I don't know... but they sure as hell rip a swathe into enemnies on VH.
  • IchonIchon Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,173
    Tor Elasor and low income are the main difficulties with Queek. If you can get over those the rest of the campaign is about the same as normal legendary- still a bit harder than some easy positions but those are the two main issues that make Clan Mors so difficult.

    Getting trade with Pestilens might help a bit- also Night runners work pretty well before you can afford Gutter runners and Queek only need 2-3 of them- rest of Queek's army should be only units that save from his upkeep bonus except maybe 1 Plagueclaw.

    Queek
    Assassin
    Plagueclaw
    2 Night runners
    13 Clanrats/Stormvermin
    2 Skavenslaves with slings

    Second army you can play with but it really only need 10-14 decent units, 6 slaves work vs Lizardmen that aren't Krok-Gar personally leading or a Tor Elasor with 10 Dragons and Dragon Princes backed by lots of ranged.

    For attacking Tor Elasor I think you either have to get very lucky with the AI DoWing somewhere else or simply wait until they land at least 3-4 full armies that you beat quickly then you have about 3 turns to get to their capital before they have another army out that wins the autoresolve sea battle. If you only beat 1-2 Tor Elasor armies at a time there are always 1-2 that will sail as fleets and win the autoresolve battles at sea.

    YouTube, it takes over your mind and guides you to strange places like tutorials on how to talk to a giraffe.
  • 1modium1modium Registered Users Posts: 6
    It's a tough campaign. I was at war with Tor Elasor, Citadel of Dusk, both lizardmen, the nearby dwarves and wood elves, as well as some rogue empire armies pretty early in the campaign. It's tough to get a break to deal with any one threat, as the others never relent. I found the need for two defending slave armies with three assassins supporting them with assault units, and one attacking army with Queek; still mostly slaves but with a couple stormvermin and clanrats. I was operating at around -1500g a turn still, but you can offset this with battle loot.
    I would wait for the armies to pile up on my land, then defeat them one at a time, usually with all three of my armies vs just one at a time. Once you beat back the bulk of the armies (say you knock down three of the Last Defenders stacks), immediately send Queek out to raze as much of their land as possible (dont try to hold it). Then go back and defend the other end of your land with the slave armies and assassins. I had to do about five of these razing runs before I had a bit of breathing room. Tor Elasor then came to collonise the east coast and replaced the Last Defenders; same strategy worked but this time sending Queek out with a supporting army.

    Meanwhile the Dark Elves are about three rituals ahead, but what you gonna do.
  • psychoakpsychoak Registered Users Posts: 3,182
    Legendary is **** now and completely broken for chaff factions, be a masochist and do it anyway, or grow a brain. So far I'm on the masochist route.
  • yowsaman14yowsaman14 Registered Users Posts: 7
    well started a skroll campaign yesterday on legendary and this is a joke compared to the queek campaign.

    i immeadiatly destroyed the lidzardmen nearby and the dwarfs with just one stack. as there are alot of settlements nearby that are ruins you can expanne verry quikly with scroll.

    only it seems he has more problems with rebellions then queek has. but i rather have it that way then being attacked all the time by 4 full stacks of heavy hitters and being in the defence all the time.

    but i still want to finish queek on legendary also. maybe EA will fix it a bit to make it more even early game.
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