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High Elves vs. Lizardmen

GeneralConfusionGeneralConfusion Posts: 908Registered Users
I've been playing a lot of Lizardmen lately, and I've noticed two things;

1) People have a strong tendency to switch to High Elves as soon as I pick Lizardmen.

2) High Elves suck at dealing with monsters.

I've made a couple of videos on the subject; here is one. Obviously neither I nor my opponent are exactly experts at the game, but is there something obvious I'm missing about this matchup that mitigates the overall weakness High Elves seem to have against heavily-armored monsters?

Comments

  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Posts: 7,872Registered Users

    I've been playing a lot of Lizardmen lately, and I've noticed two things;

    1) People have a strong tendency to switch to High Elves as soon as I pick Lizardmen.

    2) High Elves suck at dealing with monsters.

    I've made a couple of videos on the subject; here is one. Obviously neither I nor my opponent are exactly experts at the game, but is there something obvious I'm missing about this matchup that mitigates the overall weakness High Elves seem to have against heavily-armored monsters?

    Been saying since the game came out that HE are having really hard time vs monsters, i feel the best LM armies against HE are 3 monsters supported by skirmishers, and just pick your fights, HE players think PG are an answer to everything but its super easy to pick your fights with large monsters and just cycle through, the only problems LM might have is if the HE pick a monster heavy army themselves than it becomes a bit even match up, also terradon riders are very underrated though they do require a lot of micro management to get the full use.
  • AsamuAsamu Posts: 593Registered Users
    Eh, the problem with the example game in that video is that they had 3 units of swordmasters against a build with 0 infantry. SM aren't much better than white lions vs non-infantry, but cost 500 more.

    If those 3 units of swordmasters were 2 Phoenix guard and a unit of white lions, and his mage had spells that made sense for his build (Why only net with no shooting and only 1 heavy cav unit? Makes no sense), like Timewarp, he probably would have won that battle pretty easily and still been fine against a build with more infantry.
  • GeneralConfusionGeneralConfusion Posts: 908Registered Users
    Asamu said:

    Eh, the problem with the example game in that video is that they had 3 units of swordmasters against a build with 0 infantry. SM aren't much better than white lions vs non-infantry, but cost 500 more.

    If those 3 units of swordmasters were 2 Phoenix guard and a unit of white lions, and his mage had spells that made sense for his build (Why only net with no shooting and only 1 heavy cav unit? Makes no sense), like Timewarp, he probably would have won that battle pretty easily and still been fine against a build with more infantry.

    He did have two White Lions - and I've brought similar or identical all-monster armies against multiple HE builds and wiped them all out, and not because I'm a fantastic player. There's another video on my channel where I took an army with 2 Phoenix Guard, 4 Spearmen, Tyrion, 4 or 5 Lothern Sea Guard and 2 Dragon Princes apart with exactly the same build, and all of my monsters except the Feral Bastiladon were still alive at the end.

    I think more generally the problem is focusing on elite infantry as a strong counter to single-model dinosaur units, which they aren't no matter what AL bonus they have. Just based on how the animations, knockback and hitboxes work for those units, fighting dinosaurs is bad for infantry; they continuously get bashed away and even under ideal circumstances not all of them can be attacking at any given time, which means their damage output is always reduced by some amount while the dinosaur unit is usually dealing full splash damage back. Then you add on top of that all the healing that the Lizardmen have and the situation gets even worse.
  • AsamuAsamu Posts: 593Registered Users

    Asamu said:

    Eh, the problem with the example game in that video is that they had 3 units of swordmasters against a build with 0 infantry. SM aren't much better than white lions vs non-infantry, but cost 500 more.

    If those 3 units of swordmasters were 2 Phoenix guard and a unit of white lions, and his mage had spells that made sense for his build (Why only net with no shooting and only 1 heavy cav unit? Makes no sense), like Timewarp, he probably would have won that battle pretty easily and still been fine against a build with more infantry.

    He did have two White Lions - and I've brought similar or identical all-monster armies against multiple HE builds and wiped them all out, and not because I'm a fantastic player. There's another video on my channel where I took an army with 2 Phoenix Guard, 4 Spearmen, Tyrion, 4 or 5 Lothern Sea Guard and 2 Dragon Princes apart with exactly the same build, and all of my monsters except the Feral Bastiladon were still alive at the end.

    I think more generally the problem is focusing on elite infantry as a strong counter to single-model dinosaur units, which they aren't no matter what AL bonus they have. Just based on how the animations, knockback and hitboxes work for those units, fighting dinosaurs is bad for infantry; they continuously get bashed away and even under ideal circumstances not all of them can be attacking at any given time, which means their damage output is always reduced by some amount while the dinosaur unit is usually dealing full splash damage back. Then you add on top of that all the healing that the Lizardmen have and the situation gets even worse.
    Phoenix guard are an effective counter to those single model large monsters. The issue is that the build you are bringing is 1-dimensional; it's stacked with heavily armoured anti-infantry monsters. Archers and spearmen aren't effective against it because they don't have enough AP. If the HE player brought 4-6 phoenix guard, you'd have basically no chance, but a build with so many phoenix guard is going to struggle against a more balanced lizardmen build with infantry.

    Still, HE really need 3+ phoenix guard or 2 nobles on horses in their armies against Lizardmen just in case of the monster mash. None of their other options are particularly good against it.

    The other game with a monster mash build was also a rather poor example, as the HE build was similarly bad. It had no magic, was lacking on AP, and Tyrion isn't very good against Lizardmen, because he's expensive and doesn't have good AP or magic, and can't fight Lizardmen monsters/lords.

    It's not an issue of such a build being "too strong" vs HE, it's a matter of the HE players not bringing the right tools to fight it, because they are going for a more generalist build that isn't designed to fight a full monster army. Your build works by exploiting the current HE meta vs lizards, not because HE can't fight it with the right build.



    Say they bring something like this:
    Teclis on horse w/ Net, enfeebling foe, flock of doom, and regrowth.
    2 mounted Nobles w/ foe seeker -> very strong vs most monsters with a +35 bonus vs large Between the two of them and an enfeeble + net from teclis, any Lizard lord/monster will go down pretty quickly.
    2x Spearmen
    2x White Lions
    3x Phoenix guard
    2x Archers
    1x Ellyrian reavers (To engage skirmishers or catch cav w/ spear support)

    You could drop 1 archer and a white lion unit for 2 sea guard, but it makes the front line a bit weaker.

    You could also replace Teclis and one of the nobles with a Princess on eagle and a light mage w/ net, timewarp, and pha's protection or a life/high mage with spells of choice. You could go down to a horse and add an extra spearmen, or drop some units and get a prince or princess on a dragon instead.

    Such a build would be able to handle the monster mash while still having the tools to fight other builds, though it might have some trouble vs a heavily infantry focused build with an Oldblood or Kroq-gar on foot, and teclis can get sniped out by a flying skink chief.
  • GeneralConfusionGeneralConfusion Posts: 908Registered Users
    Asamu said:

    Asamu said:

    Eh, the problem with the example game in that video is that they had 3 units of swordmasters against a build with 0 infantry. SM aren't much better than white lions vs non-infantry, but cost 500 more.

    If those 3 units of swordmasters were 2 Phoenix guard and a unit of white lions, and his mage had spells that made sense for his build (Why only net with no shooting and only 1 heavy cav unit? Makes no sense), like Timewarp, he probably would have won that battle pretty easily and still been fine against a build with more infantry.

    He did have two White Lions - and I've brought similar or identical all-monster armies against multiple HE builds and wiped them all out, and not because I'm a fantastic player. There's another video on my channel where I took an army with 2 Phoenix Guard, 4 Spearmen, Tyrion, 4 or 5 Lothern Sea Guard and 2 Dragon Princes apart with exactly the same build, and all of my monsters except the Feral Bastiladon were still alive at the end.

    I think more generally the problem is focusing on elite infantry as a strong counter to single-model dinosaur units, which they aren't no matter what AL bonus they have. Just based on how the animations, knockback and hitboxes work for those units, fighting dinosaurs is bad for infantry; they continuously get bashed away and even under ideal circumstances not all of them can be attacking at any given time, which means their damage output is always reduced by some amount while the dinosaur unit is usually dealing full splash damage back. Then you add on top of that all the healing that the Lizardmen have and the situation gets even worse.
    Phoenix guard are an effective counter to those single model large monsters. The issue is that the build you are bringing is 1-dimensional; it's stacked with heavily armoured anti-infantry monsters. Archers and spearmen aren't effective against it because they don't have enough AP. If the HE player brought 4-6 phoenix guard, you'd have basically no chance, but a build with so many phoenix guard is going to struggle against a more balanced lizardmen build with infantry.

    Still, HE really need 3+ phoenix guard or 2 nobles on horses in their armies against Lizardmen just in case of the monster mash. None of their other options are particularly good against it.

    The other game with a monster mash build was also a rather poor example, as the HE build was similarly bad. It had no magic, was lacking on AP, and Tyrion isn't very good against Lizardmen, because he's expensive and doesn't have good AP or magic, and can't fight Lizardmen monsters/lords.

    It's not an issue of such a build being "too strong" vs HE, it's a matter of the HE players not bringing the right tools to fight it, because they are going for a more generalist build that isn't designed to fight a full monster army. Your build works by exploiting the current HE meta vs lizards, not because HE can't fight it with the right build.



    Say they bring something like this:
    Teclis on horse w/ Net, enfeebling foe, flock of doom, and regrowth.
    2 mounted Nobles w/ foe seeker -> very strong vs most monsters with a +35 bonus vs large Between the two of them and an enfeeble + net from teclis, any Lizard lord/monster will go down pretty quickly.
    2x Spearmen
    2x White Lions
    3x Phoenix guard
    2x Archers
    1x Ellyrian reavers (To engage skirmishers or catch cav w/ spear support)

    You could drop 1 archer and a white lion unit for 2 sea guard, but it makes the front line a bit weaker.

    You could also replace Teclis and one of the nobles with a Princess on eagle and a light mage w/ net, timewarp, and pha's protection or a life/high mage with spells of choice. You could go down to a horse and add an extra spearmen, or drop some units and get a prince or princess on a dragon instead.

    Such a build would be able to handle the monster mash while still having the tools to fight other builds, though it might have some trouble vs a heavily infantry focused build with an Oldblood or Kroq-gar on foot, and teclis can get sniped out by a flying skink chief.
    You can rarely snipe Kroq-Gar if he's being microed properly, because Cold-Blooded and Revivification Crystal stack to heal IIRC close to 2000 HP in ~20-24 seconds and Sacred Spawning of Xhotl can reduce your damage by 22% at the same time. With all that healing and damage resistance he can literally outfight those two Nobles you mentioned head-to-head sometimes, though to be fair I have not tested that while he is Enfeebled. For that matter a single Bastiladon can hold off a mounted Noble for quite some time with a Crystal cast on it. On top of that the HE build you outlined has no way to stop a flying Skink Priest from massacring the Phoenix Guard with overcasted Wind Blast, and nothing but Net and a single unit of Reavers to hold dinosaurs in place, so the Lizardman monsters can enter and exit combat with the Phoenix Guard more or less at will - and any magic used casting Net to prevent that means the infantry will be falling further behind in the HP race because they're not getting backed up by Regrowth while the Lizardman units are still getting Crystal-healed.

    I could go on, but my basic point is that the High Elves cannot rely on their infantry to take out monsters. You mentioned six Phoenix Guard; I am entirely confident that a monster mash list could and would run right over six Phoenix Guard, just by blobbing up and smashing them one unit at a time. I would be far more wary of two Star Dragons, because their breath attacks could drop a huge damage spike that would be hard to heal through and prevent routing; against Phoenix Guard, though, dinosaurs with healing support can pretty much just power through the DPS and keep dishing out more than they're taking.
  • BelialxvBelialxv Senior Member SteppesPosts: 1,627Registered Users
    I personally like phoenix guards with a Star Dragon (normally on my lord) and Net (so I can catch priest and the like while also making sure to not miss my breath attack).

    Start by aiming for the crystal and/or skinks hero. Get as many healing of the field as fast as I can.

    I sometime also bring DP, they do a great job against any cavalry and can also help a great deal against infantry.


    No clue why you'd ever bring SM against Lizardmen... way too risky to get them killed by monsters.
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  • AerocrasticAerocrastic Posts: 393Registered Users
    Phoenix Guard do great against all of the lizardmen units in melee. Solar engine bastilladon counters Phoenix Guard pretty effectively. The only decent matchup for High Elves are against Dark Elves, but I’d still give Dark Elves a 65:35 advantage. I’m not sure why they would pick High elves seeing as how there is only one unit on their roster that can deal with 100+ armor monsters.

    If I pick High Elves and my opponent takes Lizardmen, I always bring 3 dragons and a frostheart Phoenix so I can goon the monsters individually since that’s the only thing that works reliably. Paired with a life mage with dwellers below and both heals, it punishes swarming the dragons too.

    In my experience this is the only build that actually works, and one time it didn’t was because my opponent took a temple Guard. Very simple counter
  • DavielebbDavielebb Posts: 792Registered Users
    Pheonix guard work great, star dragons, (both the breath and regular attacks) are fantastic against monsters.
    Nobles as well are fantastic at killing monsters with their ap and anti large, especially when mounted.
  • Busa1227Busa1227 Posts: 3,118Registered Users
    Some things to take into account here:

    1- "People have a strong tendency to switch to High Elves as soon as I pick Lizardmen"

    If people have a strong tendency to switch to High Elves as soon as you pick Lizardmen is because it works for them most of the times.

    2- "High Elves suck at dealing with monsters"

    Which monsters?. All monsters? Only armored Monsters?. I really can't even think about HE having issues against Crypt Horrors, Giants, Trolls, etc. HE maybe have some issues against armored monsters but it could also be applicable for some other factions. On the other hand, I think you are underestimating the power of teclis + nobles on horse to deal with monsters.

    We shouldn't take into account people bringing SM against Lizardmen because it's pretty clear that they don't know what they are doing. Phoenix Guard isn't the definitive unit or an autowin vs Lizardmen unit but PG spam counter more than half of Lizardmen builds.

    Talking especifically about HE vs LZ matchup, I find it balanced. Tons of Skins + Dinos works really nice against PG spam but this build could be countered with some Cav units, 2 Nobles + Teclis, some infantry and few archers units.

  • ystyst Posts: 6,152Registered Users
    edited October 2017

    Phoenix Guard do great against all of the lizardmen units in melee. Solar engine bastilladon counters Phoenix Guard pretty effectively. The only decent matchup for High Elves are against Dark Elves, but I’d still give Dark Elves a 65:35 advantage. I’m not sure why they would pick High elves seeing as how there is only one unit on their roster that can deal with 100+ armor monsters.

    If I pick High Elves and my opponent takes Lizardmen, I always bring 3 dragons and a frostheart Phoenix so I can goon the monsters individually since that’s the only thing that works reliably. Paired with a life mage with dwellers below and both heals, it punishes swarming the dragons too.

    In my experience this is the only build that actually works, and one time it didn’t was because my opponent took a temple Guard. Very simple counter

    Thats like frikking instant lose lol. T-rex will chew thru those dragons like toys, not to mention getting demolish by tempest + whatever darts or basti cannons they decide to bring.

    Never, ever, ever bring dragons against liz, ure basically doing nothing with them. They will just laugh off any dmg via reviv crystals on those t-rexes. After 1-3 tempest and darts, ull never be able to land ur drag or it gets instant charge death by carnos.

    Liz hard counter he, it would be quite foolish to use them against liz. U only need 2 spells against he, tempest and crows. Tempest expensive drag if noobs bring them vs liz, which is a mystery why they would even do something that foolish in the first place. Crow any pg or sm they bring and pretty much thats that.

    De on the other hand, uber hard to deal with. Any monster is easily bolt down vs witch and darkshards. Cheap inf plus wicth pretty much guarantees anything that counters de hard gets dealt with no problem at all. And theres absolutely nothing u can do the moment witch touches u.

    Dont need to start with skaven, they r the dwf in war 2, super strong but cant do **** and will never ever win if they decides to draw u.
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  • glosskilosglosskilos Posts: 1,161Registered Users
    Dont play HE much, but 2 nobles on eagles worked well for me. Or prince on dragon+1 noble on eagle. The bolt thrower seems to work far better for me at sniping monsters than against infantry also.
  • AerocrasticAerocrastic Posts: 393Registered Users
    edited October 2017
    High Elves have trouble dealing with any monster with greater than 80 armor roughly. Phoenix Guard are not a good pick against Lizardmen because the solar engines bypass their physical resistance and if Phoenix Guard are being shot by said solar engine they will lose to Saurus Warriors.
    High Elves will only win this matchup if the map isn't mostly flat or you goon out their monsters.

    @yst
    To the person saying that a carnosaur would destroy dragons, what about 3 at once? Plus, how often does a Lizardmen player take a carnosaur other than Kroq’Gar on Grimloq and/or maybe a saurus old blood? Basically Never. and even if they did, 3 dragons is plenty enough to deal with them. Also, almost nobody takes a high slaan priest either, so I don’t even understand why we bother bringing up tempest (which by the way should only affect one of your dragons if you’re paying any attention and would be a huge waste of WoM for them), and even if in the off chance they do anticipating a dragon build, it’s really squishy with that pathetic 30 MD and no Mount options. Good luck escaping 3 dragons.


    Prince on Star Dragon
    x2 Sun Dragons
    x1 frostheart phoenix
    x1 life mage earth blood, regrowth, dwellers
    x2 spearmen
    x2 white lions
    x1 archer

    That’s 9 breath attacks to destroy basically 4-5 full units, a MA and AP dmg debuff aura, and enough infantry to muck up their large units or be a nuisance.

    Now some real examples.

    *Star dragon + x2 sun dragons + frostheart phoenix all unsupported with magic and not using any breath attacks

    -Mazdamundi on Zlaak casting apotheosis on himself on average dies in 12 seconds and deals one hit in return (tested 5 times)

    -Kroq’Gar on Grimloq on average dies in 18 seconds on and deals 3 hits in return (tested 5 times)

    -Solar Engine Bastilladon on average dies in 11 seconds and deals 1 hit in return (tested 5 times)

    -Solar Engine Bastilladon + Kroq’Gar on Grimloq, + Saurus Old Blood on a Carnosaur on average die in 54 seconds dealing enough damage to kill both sun dragons and the Phoenix leaving the prince on the sun dragon at around 1/4 HP. (Tested 4 times)
    The HE dragons+ Phoenix cost 2241 points more than this odd case lizard counterbuild, but let me remind you, NO SPELLS and NO BREATH ATTACKS were used.

    The dragons are perfectly viable, just don’t fight 1v1 in Melee versus a carnosaur because you don’t win that way, and the only reason the last test came out so close was because the dragons were at times dueling the carnosaurs since they were all caught close to each other instead of ganking then seperately like you should be seeking to do.

    Post edited by Aerocrastic on
  • ystyst Posts: 6,152Registered Users
    edited October 2017



    @yst
    To the person saying that a carnosaur would destroy dragons, what about 3 at once? Plus, how often does a Lizardmen player take a carnosaur other than Kroq’Gar on Grimloq and/or maybe a saurus old blood? Basically Never. and even if they did, 3 dragons is plenty enough to deal with them. Also, almost nobody takes a high slaan priest either, so I don’t even understand why we bother bringing up tempest (which by the way should only affect one of your dragons if you’re paying any attention and would be a huge waste of WoM for them), and even if in the off chance they do anticipating a dragon build, it’s really squishy with that pathetic 30 MD and no Mount options. Good luck escaping 3 dragons.


    Prince on Star dragons are perfectly viable, just don’t fight 1v1 in Melee versus a carnosaur because you don’t win that way, and the only reason the last test came out so close was because the dragons were at times dueling the carnosaurs since they were all caught close to each other instead of ganking then seperately like you should be seeking to do.

    Only bad players pick kroqgar, scar vet on rex is only slightly weaker than than krog, hes isnt the generic aura lord, he doesnt have anything that helps units around him at all. Hand of gods just another pathetic costly useless thing to bring.

    Nothing on him is worth having 30 less mana or 50% less mana pool, thats 2.5 charges of crows easily worth over 10k hp, lords hardly ever have a chance to do that much dmg esp as a frontal melee lord.

    I love he and de bringing drags, been farming them since release, got lazy lately otherwise wouldve start climbing towards top 50 then back to top 10.

    He with drag is as predicatable as we ladyglade on drag with net. Even excellent players with teclics have to keep watch on him to avoid getting zerged out by trex on animation lock.

    Funny u mention about needing luck to deal with 3 drags lol, noobs swap to he when i pick liz to feed me wins lol.

    There r however a few pro builds on he that is extremely difficult to play against, obviously involved 0 drags, unlike typical noobs fav to bring the “strongest” unit they think due to being inexperienced players.
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  • Busa1227Busa1227 Posts: 3,118Registered Users
    yst said:



    @yst
    To the person saying that a carnosaur would destroy dragons, what about 3 at once? Plus, how often does a Lizardmen player take a carnosaur other than Kroq’Gar on Grimloq and/or maybe a saurus old blood? Basically Never. and even if they did, 3 dragons is plenty enough to deal with them. Also, almost nobody takes a high slaan priest either, so I don’t even understand why we bother bringing up tempest (which by the way should only affect one of your dragons if you’re paying any attention and would be a huge waste of WoM for them), and even if in the off chance they do anticipating a dragon build, it’s really squishy with that pathetic 30 MD and no Mount options. Good luck escaping 3 dragons.


    Prince on Star dragons are perfectly viable, just don’t fight 1v1 in Melee versus a carnosaur because you don’t win that way, and the only reason the last test came out so close was because the dragons were at times dueling the carnosaurs since they were all caught close to each other instead of ganking then seperately like you should be seeking to do.

    Only bad players pick kroqgar
    What?. No.


  • DeuzerreDeuzerre Member Posts: 939Registered Users
    I always have 2 carnosaurs (One on a lord and one on a hero) and two terradon heroes (Skink chief for harassment and priest forvarious utilities) so it's improbable for the three dragons to be that efficient. Add to that that I generally have 1 or 2 bastilodons with solar engines against high elves (Because they're good against dragons AND because they make archers shoot badly) and you can see that dragons are in a bad position unless you overinvest a lot.

    The lizardmen player with such a build will still find a great use to his Carnosaurs (they are his fastest tool to hunt for cavalry for example) or his bastiladons (that are pretty good against infantry and at making archers shoot badly. -40% accuracy for 10 seconds is pretty good) while if you don't engage the dragons they're mostly useless.
  • AerocrasticAerocrastic Posts: 393Registered Users
    edited October 2017
    I think we’re forgetting about the frostheart phoenix included with the dragons. Funny how we seem to be missing a particularly important detail here. Not to mention that there’s also lore of life to consider.

    The one time out of maybe 7-8 matches I’ve played (edit: since my original post) with this build HE vs LM that I lost was to 8 chameleon skinks but it’s up to you to decide for yourself if that discredits my opinion.

    @Deuzerre
    The Phoenix is fast enough to catch terradon mounted heroes and though the Bastilladon(s) do good work on paper, that’s only really against infantry focused builds. For each one to pay for itself it would need to do >50% HP to any single dragon on its own, and that, is what’s unlikely.

    High Elf players that are impatient are bad, and a lot of players are impatient, therefore many High Elf players will be feeding wins to average and better players with other factions.
  • DeuzerreDeuzerre Member Posts: 939Registered Users

    The Phoenix is fast enough to catch terradon mounted heroes and though the Bastilladon(s) do good work on paper, that’s only really against infantry focused builds. For each one to pay for itself it would need to do >50% HP to any single dragon on its own, and that, is what’s unlikely

    ...

    Facepalm.

    Have you looked at the little icon next to what the bastilodon's shots do? Like REDUCING MELEE DEFENCE AND ATTACK AND SHOTS ACCURACY?

    Raw damage is only one aspect of the bastilodon's power.
  • KayosivKayosiv Senior Member Posts: 2,617Registered Users
    I too have noticed that most players pick high elves when trying to deal with lizardmen.

    I am not surprised at this.

    Phoenix guard are the best anti-monster infantry in existance and the anti-cavalry options for other races that are fast tend to be large entities or rampage. Phoenix guard are a safe pick because they're good against everything.

    Nobles on horses, especially working in tandem, are very effective monster hunters.

    I will say however that archers, bolt throwers, and spears are all completely incapable of deaking with lizardmen monsters that have any sort of healing support, which is always.
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  • Drak234Drak234 Posts: 84Registered Users



    I could go on, but my basic point is that the High Elves cannot rely on their infantry to take out monsters. You mentioned six Phoenix Guard; I am entirely confident that a monster mash list could and would run right over six Phoenix Guard, just by blobbing up and smashing them one unit at a time. I would be far more wary of two Star Dragons, because their breath attacks could drop a huge damage spike that would be hard to heal through and prevent routing; against Phoenix Guard, though, dinosaurs with healing support can pretty much just power through the DPS and keep dishing out more than they're taking.

    I like your take on this subject as I too experience this all the time and decided to try it out myself (). In this battle I used teclis along with two nobles and at least 3 phoenix guard and found it to be very effective. I am no pro and make many many many mistakes but usually when I play lizardmen I have a really tough time with HE.... Now I will say I never thought about using the "monster mash" against them because I feared phoenix guard spam would surely win easily but from what Im reading Im guessing that is a no. So my understanding from reading everything is lizardmen infantry wont cut it against HE but monsters will make your day even against phoenix guard spam. Oh and dragons are a higher kill priority than phoenix guard as well.
  • glosskilosglosskilos Posts: 1,161Registered Users
    edited October 2017
    Lizardmen infantry can cut it, you just need to shut down their archers and stop their cav from landing hammer and anvil charges. Kroxigors can deal with swordmasters and white lions and lore of heavens has great spells for dealing with phienix guard.

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