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Suggestion: Cheap Exploration 'Agent' for Mortal Empires

BlindWatcherBlindWatcher Junior MemberPosts: 15Registered Users
in General Discussion
The basic design of armies and agents since Rome 2 - for better or worse - is that they are less numerous and more individually important. Sending an army to one side of your empire means - unlike in, say, Shogun 2 - you are deciding to not have a unit on the other side. Positioning is very important, for better or worse, and it's always a good idea to have each army and agent doing some thing useful or heading to somewhere where they'll be more useful.

The downside of this is that you end up kind of close to your own borders for a long time, especially in Warhammer where there are no naval units (for better or worse) that might be doing some scouting in other Total War titles. Agents are a little hard to come by, and again limited in number, so they're not really what you want for scouting either. Overall it really feels like there's no good way to get a good sense for what's going on around the world. You have your corner of the world, they have there's, and you dare not leave it for fear of being too far away to deal with a sudden enemy invasion.

My suggestion is a very simple scouting ship which sort of operates like an automated probe. It's not a naval unit that can participate in battles, nor is it an agent that can harass the enemy or whathaveyou. Perhaps it might be able to explore ruins and islands, but I think that's not what my intended purpose for it is. It should, at the end of the day, be a scout - pure and simple - and one with a limited lifespan. You pay about 500 gold to make this ship at a port, and maybe it can go about 5 or so turns before it 'returns' from its 'expedition', with tales of new lands and new peoples.

The end result is that something like the Empire in the Old World can more comfortably meet up with, say, the High Elves or the Lizardmen - which it normally wouldn't know about at all unless you wanted to be very reckless with your armies. The fact that its lifespan is limited prevents it being effectively an immortal spy you can plop somewhere, and it would in general operate much like historical merchant and exploration expeditions did in the Age of Discovery. You're sending a caravel to open up your markets to new regions and new goods, not sending a military fleet or anything to conquer a place you've never heard of. That's what you're kinda forced to do now, which makes no sense. You'd need a scout before you send an invasion force. Columbus before the Conquistadors.

I know I've mentioned changes in the franchise as being 'for better or worse' a few times, and while I may be a grumbling old Rome 1 vet, I do think that if CA changes one thing because it decides that such is a good idea (like say, fewer armies or no naval fleets) then they have to change something else to balance the scales and make up for what may have been lost by that design decision. It is a balancing act, and I think a very barebones exploration vessel for each faction would be fine in this regard.
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Comments

  • SteppelordSteppelord Junior Member Posts: 2,191Registered Users
    You raze an interesting point. I always wondered how, if you go to war with a faction, you know how many settlements they have. I think you should have to actually send scouts to them.

    Off course this adds a lot of annoying micromanagement, I think that might be the greatest issue, but I think your idea is a good one if it gets implemented well.
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  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 7,241Registered Users
    Steppelord said:

    You raze an interesting point.

    Raise.

    Sorry to grammar police on you, but that particular spelling swap makes you contradict yourself in a somewhat humorous manner that I want to get my snark on against; but I'm listening to the angel on my shoulder (the boring one without the horns) and trying to be helpful in a mildly condescending fashion instead of being something worse.

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  • CrajohCrajoh Member Posts: 1,527Registered Users
    edited November 2017
    Nah I just fought he was being ironic. On that note, I have been known to make a mistake or to myself. :)
    Live your life and try to do no harm.

    "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." Evelyn Beatrice Hall
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  • SlaistsSlaists Senior Member Posts: 2,902Registered Users
    I feel, at least in W2, the game design actually encourages exploration offering random naval loot piles. The loot piles tend to pay for whatever exploration party discovered them and then some.

    For DE's I use the black arcs for that purpose since they do not count towards army cost increase anymore.
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  • SteppelordSteppelord Junior Member Posts: 2,191Registered Users
    Itharus said:

    Steppelord said:

    You raze an interesting point.

    Raise.

    Sorry to grammar police on you, but that particular spelling swap makes you contradict yourself in a somewhat humorous manner that I want to get my snark on against; but I'm listening to the angel on my shoulder (the boring one without the horns) and trying to be helpful in a mildly condescending fashion instead of being something worse.

    Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I'm a bloody grammar policeman chief myself, and an english teacher, I am devastated by the fact that I made such a stupid spelling mistake!

    BUT don't blame it on me, I play too much total war, the spelling comes from razing too many settlements in this game.
    Flag · 2Like
  • JachymulusJachymulus Posts: 228Registered Users
    actually, in my last empire campaing i hired 2nd army from start without any units. I named him Colombo, generals only purpose was to sail through all map and make trade agreements and pick sea treasuries. Especially in early game he made a lot of money. The feeling when you are on turn 20 and get about 10k just from sending one guy to sea. Also it didnt cripple my economy, yes i was playing "only" on hard, but i could afford 1 full army from start.
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  • madskittlsmadskittls Posts: 294Registered Users
    Love it, a lot of people say they hire a general, but the cost of that in higher difficulties is absurd, for just an emissary. This is absolutely necessary especially for landlocked factions that would have to travel many turns just to make it to sea. Had to use a doom (sorry DOOOOOOOOM) engineer to try and find Skavenblight and Clan Pestilens... Expensive and a waste of a useful unit. It would be nice to have an "emissary" unit to go and meet factions.
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  • FifthOfSpaghettiFifthOfSpaghetti Posts: 1,629Registered Users
    You definitely don’t need an army to go scout around the map lol. Agents are much cheaper and don’t increase the cost of your other armies. Not to mention enemies won’t attack them like they will your lone general. Depending what faction you are just use whichever hero best suits exploring neutrally. And they can move further without force March
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  • madskittlsmadskittls Posts: 294Registered Users
    FifthOfSpaghetti said:

    You definitely don’t need an army to go scout around the map lol. Agents are much cheaper and don’t increase the cost of your other armies. Not to mention enemies won’t attack them like they will your lone general. Depending what faction you are just use whichever hero best suits exploring neutrally. And they can move further without force March

    I think a special emissary unit would be better, my agent that I was using to meet people got assassinated in western Lustria while trying to meet people... Had to re-recruit a new agent that started in the Southlands and took 12 turns to get back to meeting factions... emissary unit would be great.
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  • Lord_HenkusLord_Henkus Posts: 1,472Registered Users
    Nah man not necessary. Just wait for Estalia DLC which will have special faction related traits that allowd heroes to do treqsure hunts and get extra goodies.
    How negative I may sound, game is stil 11 out of 10

    Also, please slow down combat!




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