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I am worried that CA is struggling to handle the scope of the Warhammer Trilogy

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  • EssieEssie Junior Member Posts: 20Registered Users
    edited November 2017
    Siwi.

    So yes if nothing was promised, they released game 2 as it was with the Vortex only.
    and 2 weeks later they come out and say here you get ME for free with this update ( and they hadn't promised it since before game 1was released )
    That makes it FLC.
    Since i wasn't promised to get it when i bought something. So it wasn't included in the purchase, hence it being Free.
    But since they said i would get it, and then i got it weeks later doesn't make it free.

    If i buy a complete PC but the Motherboard isn't there and i get it 2 weeks later, does that mean i get the motherboard for free?
    According to your logic i do.
  • Xenos7Xenos7 Posts: 5,119Registered Users

    Xenos7 said:

    Can we get it out of our heads that 'Free-Loaded Content'(this is what the marketing monkeys were thinking when they came up with the disgusting 'FLC' abbreviation) is 'bonus stuff' or 'extra content'? It is part of the package that we bought, it is included because it's used to increase sales that pay for it. It's not charity and compared to what developers used to do when their profits were slimmer and the industry more competitive, it isn't even good-will.

    Then come up with another name for it.
    'Content updates' are not new and not novel. They were standard in the golden age of PC gaming(thought to be 1997-2002) when profits were smaller and competition larger. They were not something the players were grateful for, but the developers for being able to make them, to which their gratitude was owed to their paying playerbase. It was also that time that popularised 'expansion packs' which were cheaper but often almost as large as the base games, rather than piecemeal 'DLC' before companies realised some idiots will pay through the nose for horse-armour.

    Now we are entitled free-loaders that have to be appeased with Free-Loaded Content they graciously give us and really we are the ones that should be grateful.
    The golden age of PC gaming was all but golden. And content updates came months if not years apart, bundled with magazines.
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,392Registered Users
    Urgat said:

    SiWI said:

    it does accrue to you that Ca didn't stop working on WH2 or ME for that matter right?

    What occurs to me is that they said they wouldn't give the game 1 races the same perks as the game 2 races ( the battle skills like teleporting dinos or blakc ark bombardments), or the rituals (not sure on the term, not the Vortex things, the campaign bonuses you activate every few turns). And compare the skills the LL got/will get with the Norsca patch, to the skills the Game 2 lords get (they were worked at the same time, right?). That itself tells volumes about the treatment game 1 races will get.

    Well I think you over reacting.
    Sure CA did not give Wh1 race the same feature* of WH2, thou say they look into it.

    But I stated before, I think CA isn't done with game 1 race just yet.

    If in 6 months from now, the situation is the same, then I would agree with you far more.
    But I think we will see ME to further develop more and more.

    Granted that CA has to "catch up" with Norsca is annoying, thou communicated, but I think thats the price of setting yourself a time limited before release.

    *while I have ideas myself how to do empire rites for examples, I hope CA doesn't follow some of the more "a race has a cool unique thing, lets give it to every race" approach some fan designer seem to have.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Posts: 10,392Registered Users
    Essie said:

    Siwi.

    So yes if nothing was promised, they released game 2 as it was with the Vortex only.
    and 2 weeks later they come out and say here you get ME for free with this update ( and they hadn't promised it since before game 1was released )
    That makes it FLC.
    Since i wasn't promised to get it when i bought something. So it wasn't included in the purchase, hence it being Free.
    But since they said i would get it, and then i got it weeks later doesn't make it free.

    Well according to that logic, you are really damning them, because they speak about it.l
    I wonder if getting "punished" for doing someone nice, is reinforcing nice behavior or not.

    And quite frankly, getting FLC's is not necessary given and why should CA not profit from giving them?


    If i buy a complete PC but the Motherboard isn't there and i get it 2 weeks later, does that mean i get the motherboard for free?
    According to your logic i do.

    No. Because according to my logic, the complete PC, is the vortext campaign.
    Including the motherboard of course.

    ME is the coupon you get from the graphic card.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,946Registered Users
    edited November 2017
    @Richdog I'm more interested in what I say than what impression I give, I can control the former, not the latter. I'm not against the other factions being updated, I simply don't want the Ogres to suffer because of it.

    It's a question of whether or not CA should bring game 1 factions up to game 2 standards, and then up to game 3 standards. I think CA should make game 3 factions as good as they can be without having to worry about the obligation to then rework the other factions already ingame. Y'all have had your time in the spotlight.

    You make it sounds like a competition between races but it's not that. I am sure they will make them as good as they can be, they will most likely get newer mechanics and improvements, they need a selling point after all.
    They will indeed. I simply don't want any attention drawn away from them because they need to update all the other factions.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,481Registered Users
    Xenos7 said:

    boyfights said:

    I ordered a pizza and they gave me a free order of garlic bread and said "it's on the house!" and I said "It is part of the package that we bought, it is included because it's used to increase sales that pay for it. It's not charity and compared to what developers used to do when their profits were slimmer and the industry more competitive, it isn't even good-will."

    If they tell you 'free garlic bread with orders above X amount' on the menu, then that was a selling point intended to bring extra customers in. Really, almost anybody knows this but can't see it when game companies start doing it. On the flip side, when my mum orders Chinese and gets a load of prawn crackers, to her it's a wasteful way of them dumping stock for something almost nobody actually orders.

    The takeaways though have gone the opposite way of games; more competition and they are less profitable. There is none of this strange gratitude towards takeaways for meal deals of questionable value or freebies which are so unpopular few include them in their order. No one tries to present something neutral as something positive in the takeaway industry; that seems to be a quirk purely of the modern 'triple-A' gaming industry.
    Sorry but, this "less competition" thing, where did you read it? The gaming market has never been so competitive. Online distribution platforms made it quite easy to market a game even without a published, and some of these indie games easily outprofit AAA titles with way smaller budgets (see Minecraft, Rimworld, PU'S Battleground). Sales are frequent and very deep (did you ever see 80% off in the golden age of gaming? Me neither). The competition is fierce. I mean, just count the new releases on Steam every day.
    It's less competitive for two reasons. The first is that the market has diversified and there are now 'markets', which leads to confusion and disputes over who 'gamers' are because some don't see those who play mobile free-to-play games as gamers and others do. Indie also doesn't mean the same thing it used to, where small companies were their own publishers competing in the same field as large well-heeled ones. Though they exist, there was a branch-off indie scene that emerged some years ago which make games that are not in direct competition with the mainstream. Much of the industry growth is down to diversification creating many different markets that don't compete with each other. Reason two is the mainstream market those companies aren't participating in has not diversified but everything gets bought up by large publishers, becoming in-house studios. This ended the PC gaming golden age. And Bullfrog, and Westwood, and Visceral, and Irrational, and Lionhead, and Interplay, then Interplay again, and Pandemic and so on. With there being only a few massive publishers, there has never been so little competition. They hardly innovate, seek new audiences rather than re-discovering the neglected ones(the XCOM strategy reboot was almost an accident) and try to milk as much money out of the playerbase they already have rather than spending less on development(and marketing) per development project and just have more projects.

    Currently there are indies who are striking at the mainstream market again and having a huge success doing so(see Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice), but for every one of them there are more developers being bought up by publishers or closed down by them.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,481Registered Users
    A note regarding price: Steam came after the golden age and no one knew the untapped potential of recognising that games do have depreciating value over time, when really they should have given how often publishers moaned about the 2nd-hand game market.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,946Registered Users
    Xenos7 said:

    Urgat said:

    So, if all those flaws are excusable because it's a FLC, guess what? I'd rather have paid for it and have a better ME

    Here's a man after my hearth. I dislike FLC not because of the semantics of the thing, but because their are inevitably smaller in scope and less polished than paid DLC. I want to pay for every bit of content, and THEN I will demand it to be done properly.
    FLC is paid content. You paid for the game, hence you've paid for any content that comes down as well.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • LayzanLayzan Posts: 920Registered Users
    I really want to like ME but I'm not in comparison to WH1. I loved greenskins, but it just seems so messy now and there are some real bugs, which make things worse.

    Upkeep made greenskins so much harder. Their units are weak early campaign against dwarfs. Who now get more armies to add salt. And factions can take anywhere now and they don't care about climate. I'm forced to use ROR.

    No ambush when you have a WAAAGH.

    Doom divers are broken now...

    What happened to the extra skills for LL?

    Our agents got changed but no immortal skill? Yea, our lords are safe but our agents are open to critical assassinations and we lost the defence skills.

    There such a huge difference between the power of the WH2 factions and WH1.

    It's turned a meant to be aggressive faction into a turtle one with sub par units, dated skills and abilities. Rubbish tech. And bugs to boot which really hinder play.



  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,946Registered Users
    People need to relax about ME. Of course it's unpolished, Norsca isn't even added. If you want a polished ME simply relax, chill out, and wait a little.
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • LolTHELolLolTHELol Posts: 776Registered Users
    I live this post, very detailed and does not mention the large amount of bugs in ME, but clearly shows the huge quality difference between game 1 and 2.

    However, I do not think CA will update the game 1 races. They are very busy with many other games and DLCs. :(
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,481Registered Users
    Greenskins were my favourite race aesthetically but were such a disappointment in game 1. It's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping would get fixed by having the 3-titles combined into one project to extend the post-release support window for years. Still waiting on that, but so far it seems like the key selling point for the Warhammer trilogy is being treated as an after-thought.
  • NopeacejustwarNopeacejustwar Posts: 902Registered Users
    edited November 2017



    It had to become a meme!
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,946Registered Users

    Greenskins were my favourite race aesthetically but were such a disappointment in game 1. It's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping would get fixed by having the 3-titles combined into one project to extend the post-release support window for years. Still waiting on that, but so far it seems like the key selling point for the Warhammer trilogy is being treated as an after-thought.

    How were they a disappointment?
    Game 3 must have variety in its core races. Ogres, Chaos Dwarfs, Kislev, and Demons of Chaos in its full iconic, glorious, undivided glory.
  • LayzanLayzan Posts: 920Registered Users
    Months ago I was relaxed about the ambush bug, which long before WH2 I posted on the support forums about. A lot has happened since but no fix. But instead the games been made harder, where it is more than ever pertinent that greenskins get ambush. So frustrating....


  • carnotauruscarnotaurus Posts: 291Registered Users
    edited November 2017
    LolTHELol said:

    I live this post, very detailed and does not mention the large amount of bugs in ME, but clearly shows the huge quality difference between game 1 and 2.

    However, I do not think CA will update the game 1 races. They are very busy with many other games and DLCs. :(

    ALL new warhammer dlc will be for game 2 we will not see cross game dlc like Grom the Paunch vs Eltharion or a empire dlc for mortal empires and warhammer 1 i done the only why we will get more content for warhammer factions is flc and i honestly can not see mechanics updates happening and even then most flc content will be for warhammer 2 races as that is the game the dlc will be for. PS This might be different if depending on the experiment flc.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,774Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    edited November 2017
    At OP's request this thread has been reviewed, and will be reopened. A large number of off topic, derogatory and/or insulting personal content posts have been deleted or edited.

    Let's keep the thread on topic. It won't get a third chance.

    Moved to Feedback by request.

    Thanks.

    dge1
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,481Registered Users
    dge1 said:

    At OP's request this thread has been reviewed, and will be reopened. A large number of off topic, derogatory and/or insulting personal content posts have been deleted or edited.

    Let's keep the thread on topic. It won't get a third chance.

    Moved to Feedback by request.

    Thanks.

    dge1

    You missed a bit on the 1st and 2nd page.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,481Registered Users
    Xenos7 said:

    Xenos7 said:

    Can we get it out of our heads that 'Free-Loaded Content'(this is what the marketing monkeys were thinking when they came up with the disgusting 'FLC' abbreviation) is 'bonus stuff' or 'extra content'? It is part of the package that we bought, it is included because it's used to increase sales that pay for it. It's not charity and compared to what developers used to do when their profits were slimmer and the industry more competitive, it isn't even good-will.

    Then come up with another name for it.
    'Content updates' are not new and not novel. They were standard in the golden age of PC gaming(thought to be 1997-2002) when profits were smaller and competition larger. They were not something the players were grateful for, but the developers for being able to make them, to which their gratitude was owed to their paying playerbase. It was also that time that popularised 'expansion packs' which were cheaper but often almost as large as the base games, rather than piecemeal 'DLC' before companies realised some idiots will pay through the nose for horse-armour.

    Now we are entitled free-loaders that have to be appeased with Free-Loaded Content they graciously give us and really we are the ones that should be grateful.
    The golden age of PC gaming was all but golden. And content updates came months if not years apart, bundled with magazines.
    I remember getting a brand new adventure mode for Nox as a downloaded update months after release before Westwood had been told to cease support. All Blizzard games got frequent downloaded updates, including new content. We're remembering this very differently.
  • ArecBalrinArecBalrin Posts: 1,481Registered Users

    Greenskins were my favourite race aesthetically but were such a disappointment in game 1. It's exactly the kind of thing I was hoping would get fixed by having the 3-titles combined into one project to extend the post-release support window for years. Still waiting on that, but so far it seems like the key selling point for the Warhammer trilogy is being treated as an after-thought.

    How were they a disappointment?
    The units are super-expensive for what you get, which are not very hard-hitting or tough considering they have to fight the Dwarfs so soon. Anything you have which can project force in melee is exactly what Quarrallers will rip to shreds. Their cavalry are generally slow but for the Wolf Riders. I wish the RoR and units added did more, but they too are all squishy and focused on Gobbos.

    I found Beastmen played closer to what I was hoping for from Greenskins, despite having their own problems. Their infantry having high speed meant you could be much more aggressive with them, which I would have liked to have been with Orcs. They went the jack-of-all-trades route with Greenskins just like with the Empire, but where Empire focused on good leadership, Greenskins went with more monsters. The problem is Empire start off with that leadership advantage and Greenskins have to develop and research towards their monsters. Once you have monsters, options do open up but the problem with many Greenskin units being expensive for what you get is that you find yourself replacing entire unit roles with monsters. My flanks were always trolls and my reduced front was a single Arachnorok Spider.

    So things only got better once my Greenskin army started having a lot less green in it.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,774Registered Users, Moderators, Knights

    dge1 said:

    At OP's request this thread has been reviewed, and will be reopened. A large number of off topic, derogatory and/or insulting personal content posts have been deleted or edited.

    Let's keep the thread on topic. It won't get a third chance.

    Moved to Feedback by request.

    Thanks.

    dge1

    You missed a bit on the 1st and 2nd page.
    Probably, but how deep does one cut? We can go forward from the point I picked and judge everything after by that. Thanks for the comment.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • ChaosDragonBornChaosDragonBorn Posts: 1,487Registered Users
    I hope CA gives Chaos and the Empire some attention. I think the dev teams can slide in some work on Chaos when developing game 3, as the game is likely to be heavily chaos featured.
  • KGpoopyKGpoopy Posts: 2,009Registered Users
    Are old world LLs going to get combat animations? There is perhaps many things to balance like numbers, and skill trees and faction power, but combat duels and kill animations are most important. :smile:
  • Lexen_RapierLexen_Rapier Junior Member Posts: 262Registered Users
    Very good original post. This is the sort of fundermental question I would like CA to address.

    I understand CA may feel it isn't worth the time to bring up the old races to the new ones. (Better campaign mechanics, graphic and audio improvements)

    Personally I am very pleased with TWW2, I think it's the best TW game so far, but because of its high standard, the combined campaign really shows up the older game content (which was also an excellent game)

    I want CA to update the old. I want them to tell us that I'd there intent. (Not to decide rites are only for future teams for example). I don't want to see feature creep so that only the most recent races feel complete and fun.


    Unlike some people on the forums l am happy with what I got in TWW2. If CA were to put in dlc for old world rites, units, extra voices and so on, requiring payment to justify the development, I would be happy with that.

    I hope CA can offer the update for free, but I'd rather pay and get the high standard that TWW2 is at, than see the combined trilogy not fully realised.
  • HecatonHecaton Posts: 60Registered Users
    It's pretty apparent that CA has moved effort onto something they can sell to people; they have my/our money for WH:TW II, and that's that. They want to spend the exact minimum effort on it from now on.

    We've been had, basically.

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