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Low Hanging Fruit: What low-effort unit reskins can CA add for big gameplay Improvements?

SelakahSelakah Registered Users Posts: 487
A recent thread about the possibility of a Savage Orc faction got me thinking about missing units that fall under the category of low effort re-skins. Perhaps CA passed up on implementing these units in the first place because of redundant roles, but I feel some of these could add a lot to the game for what amounts to low effort (hence the "low hanging fruit" title).

I honestly don't know if implementing these units would actually be a low-effort endeavor for CA. They are, after all, reskins, which would take time from some of their artists and whatnot to implement. Some designers would also have to get pulled over to come up with skill trees. Some new voice lines would have to be recorded, which costs money. In truth, most of these units have already been implemented (quite convincingly in some casess) via mods, and that's the bar I've chosen to use here. Do note that I don't mean to diminish the effort of our amazing mod community in any way. I'm just saying that if a missing unit can be quite convincingly implemented by a modder, it probably wouldn't be that costly or problematic for CA to implement the unit officially.

Savage Orc Warboss (Lord)

Reskin of: Savage Orc Big Un / Orc Warboss

Can share animations with: Savage Orc Big Uns

Arguments for it:
Currently, the only way to create an effective late-game Savage Orc army in Campaign is to play as Wurzzag and invest in his red skill line. While one can recruit and use savage orcs with any Lord, they tend to run out of steam in the late game and become increasingly more difficult to use. A Savage Orc Warboss option could solve this issue by having a skill line similar to Wurzzag, buffing savage orcs and perhaps even trolls. This would allow the player to have an effective end-game savage-orc themed army, just in the same way the Goblin Warboss allows you to make effective goblin-themed armies. The Savage Orc Warboss could be restricted to Wurzzag campaigns, and only recruitable from savage orc settlements for non-Wurzzag campaigns.

CA's Possible Arguments against it:
Role overlap with the Orc Warboss: two melee lords which serve the same purpose. Another argument is that outside of the theme, a savage orc army plays mostly similar to a standard orc army: both tend to be rush armies.

Orc Big Boss (Hero)

Reskin of: Orc Warboss

Can share animations with: Orc Warboss

Arguments for it:
Currently, the Greenskins only have two hero options in campaign. With the way TW:WH2 redesigns Hero army-buff abilities, the Greenskins are missing out on Training and Replenishment, and currently only have access to Scouting and Scavenge. They are also missing out on the very important Assault Army/Assault Garrison agent abilities which can make a big difference in campaign. Furthermore, there is no strong melee hero to pair a Goblin Shaman Lord or Wurzzag with. The Orc Big Boss hero could help plug these gaps in campaign, as well as serve as a resilient heavy-hitting unit in multiplayer quick battles.

CA's Possible Arguments against it:
Once again, Role overlap with the Orc Warboss. This argument kind of falls flat when we consider the Saurus Scar Veteran has an overlapping role with the Saurus Lord, while providing the Training campaign skill.

Doombull (Lord)

Reskin of: Gorebull

Can share animations with: Gorebull

Arguments for it:
Currently, the Beastmen faction only has one Lord option, the Beastlord. Adding a Doombull Lord option would enable Minotaur-themed armies, as well as give the Beastmen a powerful melee Lord option which is currently lacking. To further differentiate between the Beastlord and the Doombull, the Beastlord could have an additional skill or two to improve army Leadership whereas the Doombull could be a selfish, melee-monster pick.

CA's Possible Arguments against it:
I am going to go with overlap with the Gorebull hero here. If you read the buff descriptions for the Gorebull, they reference the Gorebull as a "Lord", which leads me to believe that the Doombull was planned at some point, but scrapped in favor of the Gorebull.

Wargor (Hero)

Reskin of: Beastlord

Can share animations with: Beastlord

Arguments for it:
Currently, the Beastmen have only two hero options. Similar to the Greenskins, this deprives them of some campaign agent actions. The Gorebull could be redesigned to provide army replenishment and hinder replenishment, and the Wargor could fulfill the leadership and training role (and maybe even have vanguard deployment). In this way, the Wargor can be the army-buffing option, while the Gorebull remains the selfish damage dealer, wrecking ball option. Once again, it's all about giving the player army composition options.

CA's Possible Arguments against it:
Role overlap, most likely. Why a Wargor when we have Beastlords? Why a Doombull when we have Gorebulls?



What are your thoughts? Do you think the game could benefit from the addition of these units? Why or why not? Do you agree with my assessment of these being "low effort" reskins?
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Comments

  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,323
    You hit the 2 I would have suggested so I'll just say how much I support this!
    Later
  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 4,253

    Tuskgor Chariot

    Reskin of: Orc Boar Chariot/Razorgor Chariot

    Can share animations with: Orc Boar Chariot/Razorgor Chariot

    Arguments for it:
    Simply a cheaper chariot option at about 750 Gold it offer the B-Men more flexibility.

    CA's Possible Arguments against it:
    We're lazy cheep bastards.

    Preyton

    Reskin of: Terrorghiest

    Can share animations with: Terrorghiest

    Arguments for it:
    Providing the BMen with some air support would be nice.

    CA's Possible Arguments against it:
    OK, this would be one hell of a re-skin, I'll give them that much.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • EquixEquix Registered Users Posts: 791
    Beastmen really need an update


    My heart is for Nagash.
    My dreams are made of Elves..
    And my soul always sides with ogres, goblins and beastmen.

    Amazons and Cathay are coming!
  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 4,253

    Coven Throne

    Reskin of: Mortise Engine

    Can share animations with: Mortise Engine

    Arguments for it:
    Its the same chariot as the Mortise Engine with vampirxes on board, has a high ward save, lowers enemy melee attack and damage, causes enemy units with low moral to attack their allies.

    CA's Possible Arguments against it:
    Whaa, Wahh, Boo, Hoo,
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Registered Users Posts: 4,102

    Templar Grand Master

    Reskin of: General of the Empire

    Can share animations with: General of the Empire

    Arguments for it: Would give the Empire a generic lord option with a focus on cavalry and Knights and who is quite good in melee combat.

    CA's Possible Arguments against it: You can basically do it now by speccing out a GotE with the proper Yellow and Red line skills and keeping him mounted on a barded warhorse.

    Similar arguments could be made for the HE Anointed (from HE Prince), DE Fleetmaster, or High Beastmaster (from DE Dreadlord)
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,055
    ben8vtedu said:

    Templar Grand Master

    Reskin of: General of the Empire

    Can share animations with: General of the Empire

    Arguments for it: Would give the Empire a generic lord option with a focus on cavalry and Knights and who is quite good in melee combat.

    CA's Possible Arguments against it: You can basically do it now by speccing out a GotE with the proper Yellow and Red line skills and keeping him mounted on a barded warhorse.
    Then the Grand Master should hit harder in the red tree as the point of the General after all is jack of all trades master of none. (Along with being the cheapest Empire lord)
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 2,706

    WOOD ELVES' ARCHERS ARROW VARIANTS

    Reskin of: not even a real reskin, just change the animation of the arrows for others that are already in the game.

    Can share animations with: Doesn't apply

    Arguments for it:
    Will give WE more variety, opening new playstyles. For example, a deepwood scout unit with poison for kiting (which would be very welcomed as the hagbane variant of the glade guard is rearely used) or a glade rider unit with the extra damage of the swiftshiver variant.


    CA's Possible Arguments against it:
    I guess... none? maybe MP balance? But that can be fixed by making any op variant more expensive.

    SPELLWEAVER

    Reskin of: spellsinger

    Can share animations with: spellsinger

    Arguments for it:
    Standard caster lord for the wood elves, as both Durthu and the treelord are expensive and not a real option against anything with missiles. Also, a way of giving them their missing lore's of magic.

    CA's Possible Arguments against it:
    None. However, for some reason CA seems to hate generic caster lords.
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,055

    SQUIRES

    Reskin of: Questing Knights.. I MEAN FOOT SQUIRES!

    Can Share Animations with: Questing Knights.. I MEAN FOOT SQUIRES!

    Arguments for it: either rename foot squires to just Squires or add a mounted version called Squires
    just wanted to point out this peasants units models is shared with a Knight one.

    Argument against it: CA became lazy when *Designing* the model of Squires/Foot Squires so you wouldn't be able to actually tell the visual difference between Squires and Questing Knights.

    p.s I will link you the proof if you try make the damn argument that Squires are knights when in Warhammer Bretonnian Squires have and will always been filthy peasants.
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 4,253
    Pocman said:

    WOOD ELVES' ARCHERS ARROW VARIANTS

    Reskin of: not even a real reskin, just change the animation of the arrows for others that are already in the game.

    Can share animations with: Doesn't apply

    Arguments for it:
    Will give WE more variety, opening new playstyles. For example, a deepwood scout unit with poison for kiting (which would be very welcomed as the hagbane variant of the glade guard is rearely used) or a glade rider unit with the extra damage of the swiftshiver variant.


    CA's Possible Arguments against it:
    "We're lazy cheep bastards."
    War Hawks with swift shiver arrows is something I'd like to see tried.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,419
    Well the thing is, your definition of re-skin is like adding certain fuels into your car for a hopefully superior performance (a la "quality of life improvement).

    The problem is that it's easy to do, but very costly to fix and balance so that it would actually work, let alone properly. OP admits there are reasons like role redundancy being a factor. Regarding Greenskins it seems clear the race design is that heroes are the spellcasters whereas regular Lords, exceptions being LLs like Wurzagg, are largely bullrushers. Things get hairy once you insist on a Hero whose purpose is to also be a bullrusher, especially if you cite other race designs as an argument for.
    Same goes for ideas like Doombull, which would demand revisions of existing content to accommodate. That's not "easy fix", and certainly not "lowhanging fruit". More like having you buy new plots of land and time and effort to cultivate new trees. Worth it? Perhaps, but don't call it low hanging fruit like the amount of effort required isn't high.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • NeverBackDownNeverBackDown Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,850

    SQUIRES

    Reskin of: Questing Knights.. I MEAN FOOT SQUIRES!

    Can Share Animations with: Questing Knights.. I MEAN FOOT SQUIRES!

    Arguments for it: either rename foot squires to just Squires or add a mounted version called Squires
    just wanted to point out this peasants units models is shared with a Knight one.

    Argument against it: CA became lazy when *Designing* the model of Squires/Foot Squires so you wouldn't be able to actually tell the visual difference between Squires and Questing Knights.

    p.s I will link you the proof if you try make the damn argument that Squires are knights when in Warhammer Bretonnian Squires have and will always been filthy peasants.
    Link or it never was true.
  • OdTengriOdTengri Registered Users Posts: 4,253
    In Reguardes to @daelin4

    I honestly thing that with melee characters they can make them fit into different niches, some could be powerful vs. other lords while others could be better vs. units, others could provide more of a support role anchoring your force with combat auras and moral improvements.

    Take the Branch Wraith for instance they kindof smashed the Shadow Dancer and the Branch Wraith into a single character, in TT for instance Branch Wraiths only had access to Lore of Life and Shadow Dancers Lore of Shadow.

    They could have made it so the Branch Wraith only had lore of life and an aura that increased physical resist around her. She could have been a buffer and an anchor improving otherwise mediocre troops and making them punch above their weight.

    The Shadow Dancer could have had Lore of Shadow and also been equipped with an Asrai Spear, with a big bonus vs large she could have become a Big Game Monster Hunter. Mediocre in performance vs troops with no splash damage and average Melee attack but with a large BvLarge she could excel vs Giants and the like.
    Give us Doombull, Great Bray-Shaman, Wargor, and Tuskgor Chariot.

  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 6,055

    SQUIRES

    Reskin of: Questing Knights.. I MEAN FOOT SQUIRES!

    Can Share Animations with: Questing Knights.. I MEAN FOOT SQUIRES!

    Arguments for it: either rename foot squires to just Squires or add a mounted version called Squires
    just wanted to point out this peasants units models is shared with a Knight one.

    Argument against it: CA became lazy when *Designing* the model of Squires/Foot Squires so you wouldn't be able to actually tell the visual difference between Squires and Questing Knights.

    p.s I will link you the proof if you try make the damn argument that Squires are knights when in Warhammer Bretonnian Squires have and will always been filthy peasants.
    Link or it never was true.
    Do you really know HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO LINK IT
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/5x261s/in_response_to_the_rage_about_foot_squires_being/deeqjbe/
    Mitch_CA
    The description for the unit is incorrect, which is being fixed.

    Squires are peasants in-game, in the lore and in the army book (5th).

    They are peasants, and will forever be peasants.
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 2,706
    OdTengri said:

    In Reguardes to @daelin4

    I honestly thing that with melee characters they can make them fit into different niches, some could be powerful vs. other lords while others could be better vs. units, others could provide more of a support role anchoring your force with combat auras and moral improvements.

    Take the Branch Wraith for instance they kindof smashed the Shadow Dancer and the Branch Wraith into a single character, in TT for instance Branch Wraiths only had access to Lore of Life and Shadow Dancers Lore of Shadow.

    They could have made it so the Branch Wraith only had lore of life and an aura that increased physical resist around her. She could have been a buffer and an anchor improving otherwise mediocre troops and making them punch above their weight.

    The Shadow Dancer could have had Lore of Shadow and also been equipped with an Asrai Spear, with a big bonus vs large she could have become a Big Game Monster Hunter. Mediocre in performance vs troops with no splash damage and average Melee attack but with a large BvLarge she could excel vs Giants and the like.

    I would have preferred the shadow dancer having a role as it had in TT, were it could share its 3 different "dances" with the units around. So great in melee but squishy, lore of shadows but not great WoM battery abilities, and "dance" abilities that buff it and its surrounding allies. The dances should be a bit like the ones already owned by wardancers and speardancers: situational, not just buffs.
    OdTengri said:

    Pocman said:

    WOOD ELVES' ARCHERS ARROW VARIANTS

    Reskin of: not even a real reskin, just change the animation of the arrows for others that are already in the game.

    Can share animations with: Doesn't apply

    Arguments for it:
    Will give WE more variety, opening new playstyles. For example, a deepwood scout unit with poison for kiting (which would be very welcomed as the hagbane variant of the glade guard is rearely used) or a glade rider unit with the extra damage of the swiftshiver variant.


    CA's Possible Arguments against it:
    "We're lazy cheep bastards."
    War Hawks with swift shiver arrows is something I'd like to see tried.
    Warhawks didn't have arrow variants in TT i think. Although i CA wants to get "imaginative" (lol) it would be a nice addition.
  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,514
    Black orcs with shields cause there is no endgame greenskin unit with shields except Nightgobbos.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    The skins for the new RoR are copied from the other it's already so thanks but no thanks.
  • doclumbagodoclumbago Registered Users Posts: 1,607
    Pocman said:

    WOOD ELVES' ARCHERS ARROW VARIANTS

    Reskin of: not even a real reskin, just change the animation of the arrows for others that are already in the game.

    Can share animations with: Doesn't apply

    Arguments for it:
    Will give WE more variety, opening new playstyles. For example, a deepwood scout unit with poison for kiting (which would be very welcomed as the hagbane variant of the glade guard is rearely used) or a glade rider unit with the extra damage of the swiftshiver variant.


    CA's Possible Arguments against it:
    "We're lazy cheep bastards."

    SPELLWEAVER

    Reskin of: spellsinger

    Can share animations with: spellsinger

    Arguments for it:
    Standard caster lord for the wood elves, as both Durthu and the treelord are expensive and not a real option against anything with missiles.

    CA's Possible Arguments against it:
    "We're lazy cheep bastards."
    Also: Gives Wood Elves access to Dark and Light Magic Lore
    (I think that was what Spellweavers could do in the last army book)
  • PaulHPaulH Registered Users Posts: 1,387
    I'm pretty sure it was Dark and High magic, but its been awhile since I've looked at the Welves.
  • seienchinseienchin Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,572
    Yeah but in 5th edition peasants had a good chance to become knights!

    It went even further - the fairest maid in the village choses the task that one have to accomplish once the old knight of the village dies and anyone can participate in the quest.

    I wish CA went with that lore and not the depressing 6ths edition...
  • blaatblaat Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,121
    seienchin said:

    Yeah but in 5th edition peasants had a good chance to become knights!

    It went even further - the fairest maid in the village choses the task that one have to accomplish once the old knight of the village dies and anyone can participate in the quest.

    I wish CA went with that lore and not the depressing 6ths edition...

    BUIUUUUUUUUT muh GRIMDERP LOL

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
  • EnforestEnforest Registered Users Posts: 2,167

    Black orcs with shields cause there is no endgame greenskin unit with shields except Nightgobbos.

    ^^^^^ this guy gets it


    Demand more love for Empire, Greenskins and Beastmen! Playable Middenland with Cult of Ulric! Expanded Beastmen roster with Ghorgon and Jabberslythe! Bring back Black Orcs variants and Orc Big Boss heroes!
  • doclumbagodoclumbago Registered Users Posts: 1,607

    Khorngors
    Slanngors
    Pestigors
    Tzanngors

    Reskin of: Bestigors/Gor Herd

    Can share animations with: Bestigors/Gor Herd

    Arguments for it:
    Will give some versatility to the underperforming Beastmen Infantry
    Gives CA the the chance to play with special Infantry features like
    Poison, Magic Damage. Rampage, Frenzy, Unbreakable, Regeneration
    apart from RoR
    Will free players of the need to include Minotaurs for killing powers
    Also adds some beautiful colours to otherwise brown faction

    Arguments against it:
    The Beastmen Infantry is supposed to be underperforming, that´s
    their weakness- but in light of the new factions abilities a slight buff
    for Beastmen might be in order
  • doclumbagodoclumbago Registered Users Posts: 1,607
    edited January 2018
    multiple post due to site not responding-sorry
    Post edited by doclumbago on
  • dodge33cymrudodge33cymru Registered Users Posts: 2,003
    Great idea for a thread, can honestly say that I'd rather see these additions than more monsters scattered around - I'll be back to add a few ideas later.

    @OdTengri @Pocman good suggestions, I'm definitely with you with the Grand Master, spellweaver and Tuskgor chariots - but please refrain from 'lazy' or 'cheap' comments, they're not in keeping with the OP's reasonable time.

    Grand Master, I see the 'reasons against' being that lore-wise they would belong to a specific order, which wouldn't be in the game as they couldn't produce a unique White Wolves, Blazing Sun and KoMorr GM, as well as the other hundred or so. Sure, I'd love to see this option (give them either a hammer or sword or lance option) but understand the logic.

    Spellweaver would be a tough sell when they seem reluctant to add wizard lords in general - I'd argue that they make most sense for High Elves - unfortunately. Probably due to lack of model definition, although I'd be perfectly happy with the same model personally.

    Tuskgor chariots, I guess they thought people would be more attracted to the more monsterous razorgor version, which I wholly disagree with as the tuskgor variant is the 'iconic' Beastmen chariot IMO.
  • PocmanPocman Registered Users Posts: 2,706

    Great idea for a thread, can honestly say that I'd rather see these additions than more monsters scattered around - I'll be back to add a few ideas later.

    @OdTengri @Pocman good suggestions, I'm definitely with you with the Grand Master, spellweaver and Tuskgor chariots - but please refrain from 'lazy' or 'cheap' comments, they're not in keeping with the OP's reasonable time.

    Grand Master, I see the 'reasons against' being that lore-wise they would belong to a specific order, which wouldn't be in the game as they couldn't produce a unique White Wolves, Blazing Sun and KoMorr GM, as well as the other hundred or so. Sure, I'd love to see this option (give them either a hammer or sword or lance option) but understand the logic.

    Spellweaver would be a tough sell when they seem reluctant to add wizard lords in general - I'd argue that they make most sense for High Elves - unfortunately. Probably due to lack of model definition, although I'd be perfectly happy with the same model personally.

    Tuskgor chariots, I guess they thought people would be more attracted to the more monsterous razorgor version, which I wholly disagree with as the tuskgor variant is the 'iconic' Beastmen chariot IMO.


    In fact, i thought i had edited that for a more "serious response". I will re-edit it. But, it's partially true. Spellweaver and arrow variants would probably require very very little work to add. Knowing nothing about modding, i think it's the kind of thing a skilled modder could add in a single afternoon.


    It's easy to the point were any argument against it must be more or less obscure and non confessable, like "we don't want to add more units to the WE roster because that may make other factions' user think they are also entitled to them" or "by principle, we won't give you anything else unless you pay for it".
  • DarkLordDDarkLordD Registered Users Posts: 2,412
    Selakah said:

    A recent thread about the possibility of a Savage Orc faction got me thinking about missing units that fall under the category of low effort re-skins. Perhaps CA passed up on implementing these units in the first place because of redundant roles, but I feel some of these could add a lot to the game for what amounts to low effort (hence the "low hanging fruit" title).

    I honestly don't know if implementing these units would actually be a low-effort endeavor for CA. They are, after all, reskins, which would take time from some of their artists and whatnot to implement. Some designers would also have to get pulled over to come up with skill trees. Some new voice lines would have to be recorded, which costs money. In truth, most of these units have already been implemented (quite convincingly in some casess) via mods, and that's the bar I've chosen to use here. Do note that I don't mean to diminish the effort of our amazing mod community in any way. I'm just saying that if a missing unit can be quite convincingly implemented by a modder, it probably wouldn't be that costly or problematic for CA to implement the unit officially.


    Savage Orc Warboss (Lord)

    Reskin of: Savage Orc Big Un / Orc Warboss

    Can share animations with: Savage Orc Big Uns

    Arguments for it:
    Currently, the only way to create an effective late-game Savage Orc army in Campaign is to play as Wurzzag and invest in his red skill line. While one can recruit and use savage orcs with any Lord, they tend to run out of steam in the late game and become increasingly more difficult to use. A Savage Orc Warboss option could solve this issue by having a skill line similar to Wurzzag, buffing savage orcs and perhaps even trolls. This would allow the player to have an effective end-game savage-orc themed army, just in the same way the Goblin Warboss allows you to make effective goblin-themed armies. The Savage Orc Warboss could be restricted to Wurzzag campaigns, and only recruitable from savage orc settlements for non-Wurzzag campaigns.

    CA's Possible Arguments against it:
    Role overlap with the Orc Warboss: two melee lords which serve the same purpose. Another argument is that outside of the theme, a savage orc army plays mostly similar to a standard orc army: both tend to be rush armies.

    Orc Big Boss (Hero)

    Reskin of: Orc Warboss

    Can share animations with: Orc Warboss

    Arguments for it:
    Currently, the Greenskins only have two hero options in campaign. With the way TW:WH2 redesigns Hero army-buff abilities, the Greenskins are missing out on Training and Replenishment, and currently only have access to Scouting and Scavenge. They are also missing out on the very important Assault Army/Assault Garrison agent abilities which can make a big difference in campaign. Furthermore, there is no strong melee hero to pair a Goblin Shaman Lord or Wurzzag with. The Orc Big Boss hero could help plug these gaps in campaign, as well as serve as a resilient heavy-hitting unit in multiplayer quick battles.

    CA's Possible Arguments against it:
    Once again, Role overlap with the Orc Warboss. This argument kind of falls flat when we consider the Saurus Scar Veteran has an overlapping role with the Saurus Lord, while providing the Training campaign skill.

    Doombull (Lord)

    Reskin of: Gorebull

    Can share animations with: Gorebull

    Arguments for it:
    Currently, the Beastmen faction only has one Lord option, the Beastlord. Adding a Doombull Lord option would enable Minotaur-themed armies, as well as give the Beastmen a powerful melee Lord option which is currently lacking. To further differentiate between the Beastlord and the Doombull, the Beastlord could have an additional skill or two to improve army Leadership whereas the Doombull could be a selfish, melee-monster pick.

    CA's Possible Arguments against it:
    I am going to go with overlap with the Gorebull hero here. If you read the buff descriptions for the Gorebull, they reference the Gorebull as a "Lord", which leads me to believe that the Doombull was planned at some point, but scrapped in favor of the Gorebull.

    Wargor (Hero)

    Reskin of: Beastlord

    Can share animations with: Beastlord

    Arguments for it:
    Currently, the Beastmen have only two hero options. Similar to the Greenskins, this deprives them of some campaign agent actions. The Gorebull could be redesigned to provide army replenishment and hinder replenishment, and the Wargor could fulfill the leadership and training role (and maybe even have vanguard deployment). In this way, the Wargor can be the army-buffing option, while the Gorebull remains the selfish damage dealer, wrecking ball option. Once again, it's all about giving the player army composition options.

    CA's Possible Arguments against it:
    Role overlap, most likely. Why a Wargor when we have Beastlords? Why a Doombull when we have Gorebulls?



    What are your thoughts? Do you think the game could benefit from the addition of these units? Why or why not? Do you agree with my assessment of these being "low effort" reskins?
    True ! If the effort doesn't take away from ANY other factions in terms of future dlc and stiff, yes please ! Otherwise, if it iks going to replace some other work for other factions I would.say no ! Just because I am not a greenskin fan, savage orcs make them tolerable though.. and Wurrzag makes them pretty cool. LL, I find Wurrzag truly an AMAZING Lord and fun to play with. Very very strong and very effective spells at his command.

    Non the less, great topic !
    Dark Lord D the Fearsome (I) ~~~ First Dark Lord of the Old World.

    --~~ let them hate me as long as they fear me ------------------------- Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus Germanicus, Roman Emperor
  • LordSolarMachLordSolarMach Registered Users Posts: 215
    OdTengri said:


    Preyton

    Reskin of: Terrorghiest

    Can share animations with: Terrorghiest

    Arguments for it:
    Providing the BMen with some air support would be nice.

    CA's Possible Arguments against it:
    OK, this would be one hell of a re-skin, I'll give them that much.
    Oooo, I love the idea of adding Preyton to Beastmen armies.
  • Xenos7Xenos7 Registered Users Posts: 5,663
    seienchin said:

    Yeah but in 5th edition peasants had a good chance to become knights!

    It went even further - the fairest maid in the village choses the task that one have to accomplish once the old knight of the village dies and anyone can participate in the quest.

    I wish CA went with that lore and not the depressing 6ths edition...

    Nah, I'll take depressing any day.
  • NeverBackDownNeverBackDown Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,850

    SQUIRES

    Reskin of: Questing Knights.. I MEAN FOOT SQUIRES!

    Can Share Animations with: Questing Knights.. I MEAN FOOT SQUIRES!

    Arguments for it: either rename foot squires to just Squires or add a mounted version called Squires
    just wanted to point out this peasants units models is shared with a Knight one.

    Argument against it: CA became lazy when *Designing* the model of Squires/Foot Squires so you wouldn't be able to actually tell the visual difference between Squires and Questing Knights.

    p.s I will link you the proof if you try make the damn argument that Squires are knights when in Warhammer Bretonnian Squires have and will always been filthy peasants.
    Link or it never was true.
    Do you really know HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO LINK IT
    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/5x261s/in_response_to_the_rage_about_foot_squires_being/deeqjbe/
    Mitch_CA
    The description for the unit is incorrect, which is being fixed.

    Squires are peasants in-game, in the lore and in the army book (5th).

    They are peasants, and will forever be peasants.
    You absolutely prove nothing with that link. They are peasants and nobody is arguing against it. You're being bitter over nothing.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 24,639


    Arguments for it:
    Will give some versatility to the underperforming Beastmen Infantry

    Beastmen infantry are currently overperforming.


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