Has anyone played Beastmen or Warriors of Chaos in Mortal Empires and TWW1. What do you think?

BoldElf · January 2018

I am just wondering as I havent had the chance to play Mortal Empires yet (still doing Vortex when I have time) and I was wondering has anyone played a horde faction since the inclusion of climate update and in the old game and what do you think now?

I personally liked Warriors of Chaos on release and they look even better now with the foundation update. I will probably replay them when Norsca is re introduced as I want to beat down wolfrick and force him to confederate with me after losing

instead of spending ages crushing Norsca then invading the old/newworld

. I also enjoyed the beastmen and their gorilla warfare style.

So as a horde faction fan I was wondering how the climate mechanic has changed its feel? I would have imagined its just like playing the Huns in Attilla where you go around razing etc and then later down the line people resettle so you can loop around if you want.

What do you guys recon do you think it was better before or after and why?

Also have the objectives changed for Warriors of chaos? and other old world factions to cause you to explore more of the map

Enforest · January 2018

Nothing changed at all, besides some replenishment tweaks from the foundation update.

BoldElf · January 2018

Enforest said:
Nothing changed at all, besides some replenishment tweaks from the foundation update.

I meant in the feel when playing them since anyone can settle anywhere now does your swathe of destruction and corruption feel less detrimental or can you still have big sections of the map barren and corrupted from your reign of terror lol. Essentially do the AI fill it up faster XD

MrMecH · January 2018

I play as Beastmen and they are worse in ME.

First, Their Brayherd is hopeless with stance bugs and dump AI.

Second, Climate mechanic made their enemy can expand and gain more stack&money while they stuck with few stack. It would be better if Brayherd don't have a problems from above.

Third, Chaos Trigger isn't help them at all.

Sagranda · January 2018

The Climate System in WH2 has made it a more tedious task to play hordes imho if you want to go for a "Long Victory" or annihilate everyone, since the AI will resettle razed cities/settlements just a few turns after with zealous fervor (doesn't matter if it is inhibitable climate or not), which can lead to some annoying snowballs.

The objectives for the WoC and Beastmen haven't been updated for WH2, so there's nothing forcing you to go to the New World/The Southlands aside from what you set for yourself.

About Chaos pre-foundation and post-foundation comparison.
I am torn on this I must admit.
The higher replenishment and upkeep reduction from the Foundation Update are nice, but are imho too high.
90% upkeep reduction without suffering penalties (Sigvald can even get 99% for his army) and +30% replenishment was going too far and has made a WoC campaign too easy imho. Economy is almost a non-factor and your armies will be up against in 1 or 2 turns after suffering heavyy casualties.
I also don't like that they took away the pure "Sack" option (only "Raze" and "Loot and Raze" now).
So while I like the idea of most of the changes, I don't like the numbers (especially when compared to the Beastmen)

BoldElf · January 2018

MrMecH said:
I play as Beastmen and they are worse in ME.

First, Their Brayherd is hopeless with stance bugs and dump AI.

Second, Climate mechanic made their enemy can expand and gain more stack&money while they stuck with few stack. It would be better if Brayherd don't have a problems from above.

Third, Chaos Trigger isn't help them at all.

Are you on about the Brayherd bug where they take attrition? because I think the latests patch notes fixed that but again I haven't played them recently so wouldn't know.

I would have thought the new system would be better for Beastmen as it gives them more targets to hit and run to keep their money flowing

Sagranda · January 2018

BoldElf said:

I would have thought the new system would be better for Beastmen as it gives them more targets to hit and run to keep their money flowing

Newly resettled cities/settlements don't give much money, in fact it is a pretty small amount.
What they can gain though is horde growth.

BoldElf · January 2018

sagranda2 said:
The Climate System in WH2 has made it a more tedious task to play hordes imho if you want to go for a "Long Victory" or annihilate everyone, since the AI will resettle razed cities/settlements just a few turns after with zealous fervor (doesn't matter if it is inhibitable climate or not), which can lead to some annoying snowballs.

The objectives for the WoC and Beastmen haven't been updated for WH2, so there's nothing forcing you to go to the New World/The Southlands aside from what you set for yourself.

About Chaos pre-foundation and post-foundation comparison.
I am torn on this I must admit.
The higher replenishment and upkeep reduction from the Foundation Update are nice, but are imho too high.
90% upkeep reduction without suffering penalties (Sigvald can even get 99% for his army) and +30% replenishment was going too far and has made a WoC campaign too easy imho. Economy is almost a non-factor and your armies will be up against in 1 or 2 turns after suffering heavyy casualties.
I also don't like that they took away the pure "Sack" option (only "Raze" and "Loot and Raze" now).
So while I like the idea of most of the changes, I don't like the numbers (especially when compared to the Beastmen)

Have you played vortex and ME campaigns? as I haven't noticed it too much where people instantly resettle but I am not sure as it would be something you notice more as a horde I would imagine. Hopefully its something they tweak in the next patch as I do like the new climate system but I can see it being a bit annoying if anyone will resettle anywhere and not care about the climate (at least AI wise as they don't suffer penalties as much due to cheats)

Combat_Wombat · January 2018

Just as hopeless as ever. Pointless to play as either. Everyone knows the true hordes of chaos are the norscan tribes.

Sagranda · January 2018

BoldElf said:

sagranda2 said:
The Climate System in WH2 has made it a more tedious task to play hordes imho if you want to go for a "Long Victory" or annihilate everyone, since the AI will resettle razed cities/settlements just a few turns after with zealous fervor (doesn't matter if it is inhibitable climate or not), which can lead to some annoying snowballs.

The objectives for the WoC and Beastmen haven't been updated for WH2, so there's nothing forcing you to go to the New World/The Southlands aside from what you set for yourself.

About Chaos pre-foundation and post-foundation comparison.
I am torn on this I must admit.
The higher replenishment and upkeep reduction from the Foundation Update are nice, but are imho too high.
90% upkeep reduction without suffering penalties (Sigvald can even get 99% for his army) and +30% replenishment was going too far and has made a WoC campaign too easy imho. Economy is almost a non-factor and your armies will be up against in 1 or 2 turns after suffering heavyy casualties.
I also don't like that they took away the pure "Sack" option (only "Raze" and "Loot and Raze" now).
So while I like the idea of most of the changes, I don't like the numbers (especially when compared to the Beastmen)
Have you played vortex and ME campaigns? as I haven't noticed it too much where people instantly resettle but I am not sure as it would be something you notice more as a horde I would imagine. Hopefully its something they tweak in the next patch as I do like the new climate system but I can see it being a bit annoying if anyone will resettle anywhere and not care about the climate (at least AI wise as they don't suffer penalties as much due to cheats)

I have noticed it in my Skrolk ME campaign, that the AI in the vortex campaign will resettle rather fast, too.

You definitely notice it more as a horde, since you leave a trail of destruction behind you instead of capturing cities, so there's more stuff for the AI to take over.

BoldElf · January 2018

sagranda2 said:

BoldElf said:

sagranda2 said:
The Climate System in WH2 has made it a more tedious task to play hordes imho if you want to go for a "Long Victory" or annihilate everyone, since the AI will resettle razed cities/settlements just a few turns after with zealous fervor (doesn't matter if it is inhibitable climate or not), which can lead to some annoying snowballs.

The objectives for the WoC and Beastmen haven't been updated for WH2, so there's nothing forcing you to go to the New World/The Southlands aside from what you set for yourself.

About Chaos pre-foundation and post-foundation comparison.
I am torn on this I must admit.
The higher replenishment and upkeep reduction from the Foundation Update are nice, but are imho too high.
90% upkeep reduction without suffering penalties (Sigvald can even get 99% for his army) and +30% replenishment was going too far and has made a WoC campaign too easy imho. Economy is almost a non-factor and your armies will be up against in 1 or 2 turns after suffering heavyy casualties.
I also don't like that they took away the pure "Sack" option (only "Raze" and "Loot and Raze" now).
So while I like the idea of most of the changes, I don't like the numbers (especially when compared to the Beastmen)
Have you played vortex and ME campaigns? as I haven't noticed it too much where people instantly resettle but I am not sure as it would be something you notice more as a horde I would imagine. Hopefully its something they tweak in the next patch as I do like the new climate system but I can see it being a bit annoying if anyone will resettle anywhere and not care about the climate (at least AI wise as they don't suffer penalties as much due to cheats)
I have noticed it in my Skrolk ME campaign, that the AI in the vortex campaign will resettle rather fast, too.

You definitely notice it more as a horde, since you leave a trail of destruction behind you instead of capturing cities, so there's more stuff for the AI to take over.

Fair enough

. Like I said hopefully they will tweak it so certain AI will only take their preferred climate within reason. So they wont just sit there with nothing to do if they are surrounded by ruins as its like a person if you had peace and not much to do you might as well take the time to settle in a worse climate region to gain its benefits but in most cases during a war you wont want to invest in something that will take ages to develop resulting in you having to protect it for a long time. If that makes sense lol

MrMecH · January 2018

BoldElf said:

MrMecH said:
I play as Beastmen and they are worse in ME.

First, Their Brayherd is hopeless with stance bugs and dump AI.

Second, Climate mechanic made their enemy can expand and gain more stack&money while they stuck with few stack. It would be better if Brayherd don't have a problems from above.

Third, Chaos Trigger isn't help them at all.
Are you on about the Brayherd bug where they take attrition? because I think the latests patch notes fixed that but again I haven't played them recently so wouldn't know.

I would have thought the new system would be better for Beastmen as it gives them more targets to hit and run to keep their money flowing

Not that. I mean Brayherd stance issue. They don't use encampment and use Underway instead of Beastpath.

BoldElf · January 2018

MrMecH said:

BoldElf said:

MrMecH said:
I play as Beastmen and they are worse in ME.

First, Their Brayherd is hopeless with stance bugs and dump AI.

Second, Climate mechanic made their enemy can expand and gain more stack&money while they stuck with few stack. It would be better if Brayherd don't have a problems from above.

Third, Chaos Trigger isn't help them at all.
Are you on about the Brayherd bug where they take attrition? because I think the latests patch notes fixed that but again I haven't played them recently so wouldn't know.

I would have thought the new system would be better for Beastmen as it gives them more targets to hit and run to keep their money flowing
Not that. I mean Brayherd stance issue. They don't use encampment and use Underway instead of Beastpath.

Wow I can imagine that being annoying. Have you played a new campaign with them since the recent foundation patch?

If its still going now has anyone reported it?

If its still present now hopefully it will be fixed in the tomb kings patch

MrMecH · January 2018

BoldElf said:

MrMecH said:

BoldElf said:

MrMecH said:
I play as Beastmen and they are worse in ME.

First, Their Brayherd is hopeless with stance bugs and dump AI.

Second, Climate mechanic made their enemy can expand and gain more stack&money while they stuck with few stack. It would be better if Brayherd don't have a problems from above.

Third, Chaos Trigger isn't help them at all.
Are you on about the Brayherd bug where they take attrition? because I think the latests patch notes fixed that but again I haven't played them recently so wouldn't know.

I would have thought the new system would be better for Beastmen as it gives them more targets to hit and run to keep their money flowing
Not that. I mean Brayherd stance issue. They don't use encampment and use Underway instead of Beastpath.
Wow I can imagine that being annoying. Have you played a new campaign with them since the recent foundation patch?

If its still going now has anyone reported it?

If its still present now hopefully it will be fixed in the tomb kings patch

I reported its since November and yes, it still doesn't fix in foundation patches.

robdougherty1984 · January 2018

I've played both and whilst fun I think they actually have opposite problems. Chaos is frankly too easy once you get your horde upgraded a little, it's very easy to go on a spree of destruction and face very little real resistance when doing so. Beastmen for me are the opposite, the BM campaign for me is a nightmare. You start with pretty crappy troops surrounded by enemies which target you instantly. The hidden encampment so far for me hasn't "hidden" them at all and I still get attacked whenever I use it. I've never come close to finishing a BM campaign because inevitably at some point of the game I'm going to end up in a position where I can't replenish troops before I get utterly ruined. I also think BM is much harder to get multiple stacks going which further exacerbates the survival problems.

endur · January 2018

BM TWW2 ME is pretty similar to BM TWW1, except that you don't have the RoRs yet. Morghur is probably the most powerful BM LL because he can get zero upkeep Chaos Spawn.

WoC TWW2 ME is similar to WoC TWW1 except for not having RoRs and the Norsca changes. Its not only Throgg and Wulfrik and new units that are missing -- Norsca patch has four Norsca factions in addition to Varg and Skaeling. This prevents Varg and Skaeling from becoming superpowers with 10+ settlements. It makes invading Norsca much more interesting and also easier. Norsca patch also adds the "defeat the leader" and the faction will agree to vassalize option. So you don't have to raze all of Norsca, just win a few fights and you can invade the Empire.

SherShahSuri · January 2018

I enjoyed it very much... I played with Beastmen first... razed brettonia, athel loren and then gobbled up the dwarves and let the greenskinz take over everything I utterly destroyed! was a fun play through...

I made a post about it Athel Loren and how things should happen when the Beastmen do there thing!

https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/210747/athel-loren-razed-something-more-should-happen#latest

Phoenixzs84 · January 2018

The beastmen should have a rite like "Black Arc" of Dark Elves that spawns a moving spawning point.Or maybe corrupt a ruin to make a "dark hidden" base of it.This way you can use a remote location for your base of operation.

I like the "Black Arc" mechanic a lot.I think AI. beastmen could also benefit from such a similar aproach(But on land obviously).This way they don't get wiped out that easily that fast as well.

Beastmen was hard to play with the horde economy stuff,it's a nightmare for the AI.I never see a beastmen army build advanced units nearly.I hope the upcoming patch addresses these a bit as well.

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Has anyone played Beastmen or Warriors of Chaos in Mortal Empires and TWW1. What do you think?

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