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FORGONE CONCLUSION MECHANIC NEEDS TO BE REMOVED

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Comments

  • krunshkrunsh Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,693

    He lost all of his units save for his general while the enemy still had half a dozen left, including a Doomwheel. He's angry because the match was ended by the army losses penalty since he thinks he could have just cycle-charged all of the remaining Skaven units to death.

    Of course, if Boris on his griffon was the only unit left he would have been forced to the ground and facing enough Skaven plus a Doomwheel would have beaten you anyway, especially since this was an MP match with a player you can't just abuse like the AI.

    OP should just drop the saltshaker and git gud.

    From what I understand, that isn't correct. He won the battle but his lord couldnt access abilities anymore due to the UI disapearing. Jsut very poorly explained.
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  • ShiroAmakusa75ShiroAmakusa75 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 26,342
    edited January 2018
    Nope.

    "My entire army apart from Boris on his griffon mount had been routed and i had just killed the enemy skaven lord when the UI for Boris had dissappeared. "

    He was down to just his general and against half a dozen enemy units in an MP match. He wanted to force a win by cycle-charge abuse but couldn't because the match ended due to army losses.

    If you lose your whole army and are down to just your general and there's still half a dozen enemy units left in decent-ish health you deserve to get the loss, period.

  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    edited January 2018
    Never heard of or encountered this "bug" before. Sounds like he pressed K and doesn't want to admit it now that he's made a scene.
  • coury97coury97 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 615
    But he won, that's what you can say from his post, so he didn't lost due to army losses.
  • IshkanderIshkander Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 13
    So at first OP i didnt feel bad for you because of your rant, but not most posters who came to this thread have literally posted without reading your post. Thus missing the entire point which is you won the battle but the game incorrectly pulled your UI assuming it would be impossible. Thus depriving you of fine control over the battle and almost costing you the win.

    TLDR
    OP WON THE BATTLE
    but his UI was taken as if he had routed from army losses, but Boris wasn't done.
  • AxelradAxelrad Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 633
    edited January 2018
    krunsh said:

    He lost all of his units save for his general while the enemy still had half a dozen left, including a Doomwheel. He's angry because the match was ended by the army losses penalty since he thinks he could have just cycle-charged all of the remaining Skaven units to death.

    Of course, if Boris on his griffon was the only unit left he would have been forced to the ground and facing enough Skaven plus a Doomwheel would have beaten you anyway, especially since this was an MP match with a player you can't just abuse like the AI.

    OP should just drop the saltshaker and git gud.

    From what I understand, that isn't correct. He won the battle but his lord couldnt access abilities anymore due to the UI disapearing. Jsut very poorly explained.
    Yeah, I think this is what he's trying to say. Granted, it's a trial to read the OP and try to gather what he's saying happened, but he seems to claim that:

    1. His army routed, leaving him with only his lord at 80% health. His enemy's lord was dead, but the enemy army had 5 infantry units and a Doomwheel left, all around half health.

    2. His UI disappeared. Boris should've also been forced to ground since he was the last remaining unit and on a flying mount, though the OP doesn't mention this.

    3. Enemy player asked him to forfeit, he refused.

    4. He dragged the remaining enemy units into shallow water and routed them with cycle charges (no idea how the enemy player allowed this with 6 v 1 odds.)

    The UI disappearing still sounds like a bug or misclick to me - it's possible the game thought his army was shattered and went into "you've been defeated" mode, but his lord hadn't routed so it didn't actually end. An interesting test would've been to try to use hotkeys to fire off his abilities (alt+1, alt+2, etc) and see if his abilities had been disabled, or just the UI.
  • BRiiTASH2BRiiTASH2 Registered Users Posts: 419

    He lost all of his units save for his general while the enemy still had half a dozen left, including a Doomwheel. He's angry because the match was ended by the army losses penalty since he thinks he could have just cycle-charged all of the remaining Skaven units to death.

    Of course, if Boris on his griffon was the only unit left he would have been forced to the ground and facing enough Skaven plus a Doomwheel would have beaten you anyway, especially since this was an MP match with a player you can't just abuse like the AI.

    OP should just drop the saltshaker and git gud.

    If you want me to upload a replay of the battle just to prove your ass wrong i will.
  • CrajohCrajoh Member Registered Users Posts: 1,905
    BRiiTASH2 said:

    Krilral said:

    I think a lot of people responding to this haven't actually read the OP's post. He is not complaining that he lost a battle; he actually won the battle. He's complaining that his UI disappeared. That being said, I think you (OP) probably just experienced a bug or pressed K, like others have said. I have certainly never seen this mechanic you speak of (though I only play singleplayer).

    It isnt K, trust me ive tried. The AI assumes that during the mass rout your lords run away too but that isnt the case.
    Good effort, pulling a win from that situation. I haven't seen the foregone conclusion mechanic myself. But then I mainly play single player.
    Live your life and try to do no harm.

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  • GeneralConfusionGeneralConfusion Registered Users Posts: 1,009
    That's not a mechanic. I've played with unbreakable units plenty of times and never seen anything like that. You had a bug.
  • AnothaGitAnothaGit Registered Users Posts: 267
    Git gud at reading:

    yet by dragging the enemy infantry out into the shallow water and a few cycle charges was enough to win the battle from "certain defeat" to fully routing the enemy.

    Hell, even the other player was asking me to just quit the battle because he believed there was no way for m,e to win the fight, and yet i did anyway.
  • Combat_WombatCombat_Wombat Registered Users Posts: 4,092
    AnothaGit said:

    Git gud at reading:

    yet by dragging the enemy infantry out into the shallow water and a few cycle charges was enough to win the battle from "certain defeat" to fully routing the enemy.

    Hell, even the other player was asking me to just quit the battle because he believed there was no way for m,e to win the fight, and yet i did anyway.

    Who cares? By how much he won is completely irrelevant. The fact he won means it wasn't a mass route unless there was a bug stopping Boris from running even though the UI vanished in which case he doesn't even deserve the win to begin with. If it isn't a bug then he pressed K like an idiot and won't admit it it.
  • NightOfTheDeadNightOfTheDead Member Registered Users Posts: 654
    Is this a thread discussing that morale does not need to be a thing?
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,810

    Is this a thread discussing that morale does not need to be a thing?

    Hard to know. It's all speculation until we find the rosetta stone to confirm.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • BRiiTASH2BRiiTASH2 Registered Users Posts: 419
    For those saying that the forgone conclusion isnt a thing, it is basically when the battle outcome has been decided by the game, which i suppose is a better way of putting it. This is noticeable when you examine the 'Disintegrating' or 'crumbling' mechanic on the tomb kings constructs, as these two factora are disabled if the Battle Outcome Decided.
    This impies that should the AI assume a battle is no longer winnable by a player with their remaining units, the effects of disintegration and crumbling will stop for the presumed victorious players units so as to allow them to mop up the battlefield or force the other player to accept defeat.
    It also helps when the game assumes one player has overall battle superiority following something such as a mass rout as was the case for me.



  • IxusIxus Registered Users Posts: 190
    edited January 2018
    Since some people are confused about this, if your only units left are flying units - that automatically loses the battle due to the fact many ground units can't actually do anything to force a win.

    That should probably stay the same.
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Registered Users Posts: 4,340
    Actually if you only have flyers left the game grounds them so they have to fight. You don’t automatically lose. Unless that’s been changed.
    Later
  • IxusIxus Registered Users Posts: 190

    Actually if you only have flyers left the game grounds them so they have to fight. You don’t automatically lose. Unless that’s been changed.

    You could be right. I've never had it happen to me, only seen it applied to the AI. Like that first greenskins battle where the gyros show up; if you shatter the ground forces they just auto-shatter.
  • BRiiTASH2BRiiTASH2 Registered Users Posts: 419
    Ixus said:

    Since some people are confused about this, if your only units left are flying units - that automatically loses the battle due to the fact many ground units can't actually do anything to force a win.

    That should probably stay the same.

    Technically the Griffon is a monstorous unit that can only fight when landed and engaged in melee.
  • AxelradAxelrad Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 633
    edited January 2018
    BRiiTASH2 said:

    For those saying that the forgone conclusion isnt a thing, it is basically when the battle outcome has been decided by the game, which i suppose is a better way of putting it. This is noticeable when you examine the 'Disintegrating' or 'crumbling' mechanic on the tomb kings constructs, as these two factora are disabled if the Battle Outcome Decided.
    This impies that should the AI assume a battle is no longer winnable by a player with their remaining units, the effects of disintegration and crumbling will stop for the presumed victorious players units so as to allow them to mop up the battlefield or force the other player to accept defeat.
    It also helps when the game assumes one player has overall battle superiority following something such as a mass rout as was the case for me.



    This is literally not a mechanic present in the game. You most likely experienced a bug, ie the game not working correctly. It sucks, but it's not by design. You should report it in the support forums.

    The "Battle Outcome Decided" takes effect once one side has completely shattered and the "Battle Won!" message displays. At this point, the victor can choose to end the battle right then or continue playing and manually mop up routers - the crumbling mechanic is disabled at this point to prevent VC or TK players from incurring serious accidental losses while doing so, which could in theory result in their army also being wiped out. This really only matters in campaign play, where mopping up routers can have significant affects on the campaign map.

    The game is never "predicting" who is going to win and modifying play based on probabilities in order to speed things along, as you claim.
  • IntertriarriiaeIntertriarriiae Registered Users Posts: 385
    The ai cannot predict when a player is going to lose and make your ui disappear. I mean, start a 40 stack custom battle, take 1 goblin lord and run him into 40 monsters. Your ui does not disappear but there's no way you can win.

    OP encountered a bug or pressed K.

    Just tossing in my 2 heresies every once in a while.
  • TalmoreanTalmorean Registered Users Posts: 1,436
    This has been entertaining. I just wanted to say thank you all for this high dose of sodium infused kerfufflery.
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