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Chinese community and Grand Cathay

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  • BaronKlatzBaronKlatz Registered Users Posts: 1,037
    Haha, awesome! :)

    You guys really outdid yourselves on those gifts. Truly a credit to the hobby.
  • urbanmechurbanmech Registered Users Posts: 1,239
    edited February 2018
    @zizi

    谢谢, 弟兄

    Thank you for putting it up for download and the work you put into it, it's the most detailed of the fanmade maps I've seen of the Celestial Empire and I like how you tried to put in all the named locations from Mount Li to Beichai to Shangyang to the Tower of Ashshair in positions that make sense. There are a few spelling issues such as the Mountains of Mourn, Fragrant Harbor/Harbour and Halberd Pass but otherwise it's good.

    The only thing I'd wish you'd add in was the Land of the Celestial Dragon Monks to the southwest (southeast of the Mountains of Mourn) that you can see on the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms armybook map and the 8th Edition Hardback Rulebook:







    Anyway, it's good to see continued support for Warhammer and Total War from the mainland community.
    Post edited by urbanmech on
  • ChukchataChukchata Registered Users Posts: 901
    @zizi

    Hi man, I just want to say, this map is great. I can't know if Cathay or Ind would make it to game 3, but if anything, that trip and the gifts probably made it a bit more likely - and they certainly showed a lot of people that there are passionate fans in China!

    Land is Kislev, Kislev is Land! We are Kislev!

    Proud Elspeth von Draken partisan
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Registered Users Posts: 1,382
    @zizi

    You guys are my heroes. I wish more fans were as passionate and positive as you all are. Salute from the U.S., and +1 for any polite request for Cathay and the Far East.
  • Shomy9342Shomy9342 Registered Users Posts: 343
    4uk4ata said:

    @zizi

    Hi man, I just want to say, this map is great. I can't know if Cathay or Ind would make it to game 3, but if anything, that trip and the gifts probably made it a bit more likely - and they certainly showed a lot of people that there are passionate fans in China!

    Considering that freaking Squats are coming back to 40k, I think GW giving CA chance of making Cathay have increased.
  • ZilongZilong Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 501
    Shomy9342 said:

    4uk4ata said:

    \

    Considering that freaking Squats are coming back to 40k, I think GW giving CA chance of making Cathay have increased.
    Wait, Squats are coming back? But then, what will we use to cynically call things that GW has unnecessarily taken out behind the barn to put down?
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Registered Users Posts: 1,382
    edited February 2018
    Zilong said:

    Wait, Squats are coming back? But then, what will we use to cynically call things that GW has unnecessarily taken out behind the barn to put down?

    Bretonnia'd?

    (For those who don't know, GW recently released a few Squat characters for the revamped Necromunda. We're probably not getting a full codex for them, but the fact that we're getting any Squats at all is amazingly awesome, and it makes you wonder if GW will be more willing to let something like Cathay happen.)
  • BaronKlatzBaronKlatz Registered Users Posts: 1,037
    edited February 2018
    Nah, it's just one bounty hunter hero for Necromunda. The rest of the race is still pretty much nommed.

    (The Demiurg are still a thing in canon though which are basically merc squats. Definitely a higher chance of a race that made it into a recent videogame coming back than the sci-fi biker gang dwarfs)

    Edit: "Bretonnia'd?"

    Haha, good one.

    Though since the "Order of Breton" is a thing in AoS lore(and they have viable rules to use in the game) they're still better off than the Nid munchies.
  • BaronKlatzBaronKlatz Registered Users Posts: 1,037
    edited February 2018
    Here's the vid with GW being epic as ever. :D



    (The clock joke is that everytime someone mentioned Squats then the clock for their release would be reset.

    They also just did a troll interview leak where you could see a Fishman battletome presentation in the background. They're having too much fun. XD )
  • acroguePatrickacroguePatrick Registered Users Posts: 333
    Shomy9342 said:

    4uk4ata said:

    @zizi

    Hi man, I just want to say, this map is great. I can't know if Cathay or Ind would make it to game 3, but if anything, that trip and the gifts probably made it a bit more likely - and they certainly showed a lot of people that there are passionate fans in China!

    Considering that freaking Squats are coming back to 40k, I think GW giving CA chance of making Cathay have increased.
    While's that great, what does it actually mean and how does it increase chances?
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Registered Users Posts: 1,382


    While's that great, what does it actually mean and how does it increase chances?

    Squats were essentially 40K's space dwarfs. They had an army and miniatures way back in the late 80s and early 90s, but GW scrapped them and never touched them again. For almost a quarter of a century 40K fans fondly remembered and joked about the Squats until it became a meme to say that something's getting "squatted" if it's getting removed from the game and lore by GW.

    Now, to everyone's amazement, GW brought the Squats back into 40K by releasing a Squat character for their game Necromunda. It's just one character, but the fact that GW revived the Squats is stunning, and it could meant that they're a lot more open to trying new things and having fun with their IPs.

    If Squats of all things could get revived in 40K, suddenly the idea of GW approving a CA-developed Cathay or even more of the Far East doesn't seem as impossible as we thought.
  • BaronKlatzBaronKlatz Registered Users Posts: 1,037
    Haha, by that measurement all it will take is a constant stream of Cathay requests for well over a decade so we can see one Cathayan general in a TWW update when we thought they were long done with the series ala Rome 2 update. :p

    But hey, whatever gives people hope. (Though I'm betting on sneaky Fishmen release. And I don't mean the ones tilling Bretonnia's fields. ;) )
  • mw51630mw51630 Member Registered Users Posts: 1,594
    CA can't really release "Cathay" at all anymore, it is destroyed along with WFB.

    A Chinese-themed faction may someday get the light though. GW made up a Chinese-Mongol faction for the Lord of the Rings Strategy Game.




  • BaronKlatzBaronKlatz Registered Users Posts: 1,037
    Haha, well that made the idea of TW:LotR more appealing. :)

    But yeah, Cathay would need to be worked from the ground up and need to go off just lore sources instead of any models which is the huge question mark here.

    There is the white dwarf Cathay kitbashes which are nice, though.
  • zizizizi Registered Users Posts: 9
    edited February 2018
    mw51630 said:

    CA can't really release "Cathay" at all anymore, it is destroyed along with WFB.

    A Chinese-themed faction may someday get the light though. GW made up a Chinese-Mongol faction for the Lord of the Rings Strategy Game.




    well......it's really not chinese army :D
    they look like some central asians :p
  • urbanmechurbanmech Registered Users Posts: 1,239
    mw51630 said:

    CA can't really release "Cathay" at all anymore, it is destroyed along with WFB.

    A Chinese-themed faction may someday get the light though. GW made up a Chinese-Mongol faction for the Lord of the Rings Strategy Game.




    Technically it wasn't completely made up. It was just GW's interpretation of the Variags of Khand (and for some reason giving them the chariots of the Wainriders), which were given some obscure few sentences in Tolkien's books.
  • mw51630mw51630 Member Registered Users Posts: 1,594
    zizi said:

    mw51630 said:

    CA can't really release "Cathay" at all anymore, it is destroyed along with WFB.

    A Chinese-themed faction may someday get the light though. GW made up a Chinese-Mongol faction for the Lord of the Rings Strategy Game.




    well......it's really not chinese army :D
    they look like some central asians :p
    Yeah you are right they really are more Mongolian themes tbh...
  • zizizizi Registered Users Posts: 9
    edited February 2018

    @zizi

    谢谢, 弟兄

    Thank you for putting it up for download and the work you put into it, it's the most detailed of the fanmade maps I've seen of the Celestial Empire and I like how you tried to put in all the named locations from Mount Li to Beichai to Shangyang to the Tower of Ashshair in positions that make sense. There are a few spelling issues such as the Mountains of Mourn, Fragrant Harbor/Harbour and Halberd Pass but otherwise it's good.

    The only thing I'd wish you'd add in was the Land of the Celestial Dragon Monks to the southwest (southeast of the Mountains of Mourn) that you can see on the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms armybook map and the 8th Edition Hardback Rulebook:







    Anyway, it's good to see continued support for Warhammer and Total War from the mainland community.

    very thanx brother

    you are right.....there is not " celestial dragon monks"...because...er..u know....there is more “fantasy” ancient religion in really chinese history and it's more suitable for wfb than monks.....taoist priests' ultimate pursuit is ascending themself into supernatural beings, thus to become to being unworldly and eternal...they call its "eclosion"

    don't u think that it's more cool and more chinese than monks(whitch was from india)? :D
    so......i never wrote any "monks" in that picture....
  • zizizizi Registered Users Posts: 9
    edited February 2018

    @zizi

    谢谢, 弟兄

    Thank you for putting it up for download and the work you put into it, it's the most detailed of the fanmade maps I've seen of the Celestial Empire and I like how you tried to put in all the named locations from Mount Li to Beichai to Shangyang to the Tower of Ashshair in positions that make sense. There are a few spelling issues such as the Mountains of Mourn, Fragrant Harbor/Harbour and Halberd Pass but otherwise it's good.

    The only thing I'd wish you'd add in was the Land of the Celestial Dragon Monks to the southwest (southeast of the Mountains of Mourn) that you can see on the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms armybook map and the 8th Edition Hardback Rulebook:

    Anyway, it's good to see continued support for Warhammer and Total War from the mainland community.

    thanx brother

    yeah, u r right , there is not "monks" in that picture
    but...er...u know..there's a reason for that.
    in really chinese history, there is a more fantasy ancient religion and is more suitable for WFB world. .taoist priests' ultimate pursuit is ascending themself into supernatural beings, thus thus to become to be unworldly and eternal.
    and they call its "eclotion".

    don't you think that it is more cool and more chinese than monks(whitch was from india)?
    so i never wrote any "monk"word in that...
    Post edited by zizi on
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 5,735
    zizi said:

    @zizi

    谢谢, 弟兄

    Thank you for putting it up for download and the work you put into it, it's the most detailed of the fanmade maps I've seen of the Celestial Empire and I like how you tried to put in all the named locations from Mount Li to Beichai to Shangyang to the Tower of Ashshair in positions that make sense. There are a few spelling issues such as the Mountains of Mourn, Fragrant Harbor/Harbour and Halberd Pass but otherwise it's good.

    The only thing I'd wish you'd add in was the Land of the Celestial Dragon Monks to the southwest (southeast of the Mountains of Mourn) that you can see on the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms armybook map and the 8th Edition Hardback Rulebook:

    Anyway, it's good to see continued support for Warhammer and Total War from the mainland community.

    thanx brother

    yeah, u r right , there is not "monks" in that picture
    but...er...u know..there's a reason for that.
    in really chinese history, there is a more fantasy ancient religion and is more suitable for WFB world. .taoist priests' ultimate pursuit is ascending themself into supernatural beings, thus thus to become to be unworldly and eternal.
    and they call its "eclotion".

    don't you think that it is more cool and more chinese than monks(whitch was from india)?
    so i never wrote and "monk"word in that...
    Well said I agree completely. Perhaps the tk liche priests could have gotten some of their ideas from the "taoist" immortals?
  • urbanmechurbanmech Registered Users Posts: 1,239
    zizi said:

    @zizi

    谢谢, 弟兄

    Thank you for putting it up for download and the work you put into it, it's the most detailed of the fanmade maps I've seen of the Celestial Empire and I like how you tried to put in all the named locations from Mount Li to Beichai to Shangyang to the Tower of Ashshair in positions that make sense. There are a few spelling issues such as the Mountains of Mourn, Fragrant Harbor/Harbour and Halberd Pass but otherwise it's good.

    The only thing I'd wish you'd add in was the Land of the Celestial Dragon Monks to the southwest (southeast of the Mountains of Mourn) that you can see on the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms armybook map and the 8th Edition Hardback Rulebook:

    Anyway, it's good to see continued support for Warhammer and Total War from the mainland community.

    thanx brother

    yeah, u r right , there is not "monks" in that picture
    but...er...u know..there's a reason for that.
    in really chinese history, there is a more fantasy ancient religion and is more suitable for WFB world. .taoist priests' ultimate pursuit is ascending themself into supernatural beings, thus thus to become to be unworldly and eternal.
    and they call its "eclotion".

    don't you think that it is more cool and more chinese than monks(whitch was from india)?
    so i never wrote and "monk"word in that...
    Ah, I had a feeling it was related to that. At least their absence makes sense now.
  • zizizizi Registered Users Posts: 9

    zizi said:

    @zizi

    谢谢, 弟兄

    Thank you for putting it up for download and the work you put into it, it's the most detailed of the fanmade maps I've seen of the Celestial Empire and I like how you tried to put in all the named locations from Mount Li to Beichai to Shangyang to the Tower of Ashshair in positions that make sense. There are a few spelling issues such as the Mountains of Mourn, Fragrant Harbor/Harbour and Halberd Pass but otherwise it's good.

    The only thing I'd wish you'd add in was the Land of the Celestial Dragon Monks to the southwest (southeast of the Mountains of Mourn) that you can see on the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms armybook map and the 8th Edition Hardback Rulebook:

    Anyway, it's good to see continued support for Warhammer and Total War from the mainland community.

    thanx brother

    yeah, u r right , there is not "monks" in that picture
    but...er...u know..there's a reason for that.
    in really chinese history, there is a more fantasy ancient religion and is more suitable for WFB world. .taoist priests' ultimate pursuit is ascending themself into supernatural beings, thus thus to become to be unworldly and eternal.
    and they call its "eclotion".

    don't you think that it is more cool and more chinese than monks(whitch was from india)?
    so i never wrote and "monk"word in that...
    Well said I agree completely. Perhaps the tk liche priests could have gotten some of their ideas from the "taoist" immortals?
    not identical....by alchemy, sorcery, medicine, meditation, and even art, the taoist priests "will"(at least they think ) be something analogous to .....er...force ghost in SW :D and more different from human at a spirit level.....(more indifferent and more like force itself)
  • zizizizi Registered Users Posts: 9

    zizi said:

    @zizi

    谢谢, 弟兄

    Thank you for putting it up for download and the work you put into it, it's the most detailed of the fanmade maps I've seen of the Celestial Empire and I like how you tried to put in all the named locations from Mount Li to Beichai to Shangyang to the Tower of Ashshair in positions that make sense. There are a few spelling issues such as the Mountains of Mourn, Fragrant Harbor/Harbour and Halberd Pass but otherwise it's good.

    The only thing I'd wish you'd add in was the Land of the Celestial Dragon Monks to the southwest (southeast of the Mountains of Mourn) that you can see on the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms armybook map and the 8th Edition Hardback Rulebook:

    Anyway, it's good to see continued support for Warhammer and Total War from the mainland community.

    thanx brother

    yeah, u r right , there is not "monks" in that picture
    but...er...u know..there's a reason for that.
    in really chinese history, there is a more fantasy ancient religion and is more suitable for WFB world. .taoist priests' ultimate pursuit is ascending themself into supernatural beings, thus thus to become to be unworldly and eternal.
    and they call its "eclotion".

    don't you think that it is more cool and more chinese than monks(whitch was from india)?
    so i never wrote and "monk"word in that...
    Well said I agree completely. Perhaps the tk liche priests could have gotten some of their ideas from the "taoist" immortals?
    not identical....by alchemy, sorcery, medicine, meditation, and even art, the taoist priests "will"(at least they think ) be something analogous to .....er...force ghost in SW :D and more different from human at a spirit level.....(more indifferent and more like force itself)
  • epic_159738407532WjML0C1epic_159738407532WjML0C1 Registered Users Posts: 56
    @zizi

    Many thanks for the map. It's very cool and it would be great to get something like this in the game. I'm a little connoisseur of the game universe and in my opinion it would be nice to add a map key, so that it would be easier to navigate on this map. But this does not cancel the work that you did. Thanks again for the link.

    I'm still wondering: If the СA would have taken your map for the realization of the game, you would have demanded from them some money for it insisting on your copyright rights or giving it to them for free, in order to see it in the game.



  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Registered Users Posts: 1,382
    edited February 2018
    Reposting due to relevancy:

    Lore on Cathay is scarce, but what exists consistently implies that it is very powerful. Examples of stories from 4th-8th editions that involve Cathay or Cathayans include:

    -The Siege of the Great Bastion (8th edition rulebook, pg. 219)
    -Assault on the Tower of Ashshair (Tamurkhan: The Throne of Chaos, pg. 25)
    -The Coming of the Great Maw (8th edition Ogre Kingdoms armybook, pg. 8)
    -The Voyage of Yin-Tuan to Lustria (5th edition Lizardmen armybook, pgs. 14-17)
    -Ricco and Robbio and the Silk Road (5th edition Dogs of War armybook, pgs. 94-95)
    -The Treacherous Career of Oglah Khan (White Dwarf #231, pgs. 10-11)
    -The Creation of the Helstorm Rocket Battery (7th edition Empire armybook, pg. 49)
    -The Sinking of the Talon of Agony (4th edition Dark Elf armybook, pg. 12)

    All of these are examples I've looked up in the primary sources myself and can verify, and anyone else can too if they're willing to do some digging.

    There's other tidbits in other sources as well as some ancient retconned lore from 2nd and 3rd editions. It'd still take a lot of work to flesh them out into a playable race, but there's enough interesting stuff about them that I don't see why they should be dismissed as impossible.

    I'll also point out that just because we don't know much about Cathay doesn't mean they aren't important in-universe. Based on the level of might they show off in their lore, and their enmity with the forces of Chaos, I'd say they're at least as important as Bretonnia and the Ogres, and probably more so since they seem to perform the role of Kislev, the Empire, and the Dwarfs combined for the Far East (constantly fighting off Chaos + holding off Greenskins, or in this case Hobgoblins).

    There are a lot of races where, if you took away their army book, all they would be is footnotes or punching bags. The Lizardmen, for example, are one of the most important races in the world, yet they're practically unknown to most other races. Other army books barely mention them, if they do at all. Even the Daemon and Skaven books don't talk much about them. Without their army books to provide their lore, the Lizardmen would be in the same situation as Cathay; a mysterious, far-away faction with hints that it is important to the wider backdrop, but it isn't relevant to the stories that the lore chooses to focus on.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 9,982

    There are a lot of races where, if you took away their army book, all they would be is footnotes or punching bags. The Lizardmen, for example, are one of the most important races in the world, yet they're practically unknown to most other races. Other army books barely mention them, if they do at all. Even the Daemon and Skaven books don't talk much about them. Without their army books to provide their lore, the Lizardmen would be in the same situation as Cathay; a mysterious, far-away faction with hints that it is important to the wider backdrop, but it isn't relevant to the stories that the lore chooses to focus on.

    Exactly this. There are a lot of races that are pretty thin on the ground when it comes to references in other books, and this goes double when you consider that once a race has an army book, GW tends to find reasons to mention it in subsequent printings of the army books for older races (Ogre Kingdoms is a good example of this). Certain people make a big deal of how Cantha was wiped out 'offscreen' during the End Times, but I have little doubt that the Lizardmen would have had a similar off-screen demise if they didn't have an army book.

    In fact, for a non-army-book race, there is a surprising amount of detail available on Cathay. Makes me think that Games Workshop may have been doing the groundwork for a release around 7E before they decided to cut their losses and kill the world instead.
    zizi said:

    @zizi

    谢谢, 弟兄

    Thank you for putting it up for download and the work you put into it, it's the most detailed of the fanmade maps I've seen of the Celestial Empire and I like how you tried to put in all the named locations from Mount Li to Beichai to Shangyang to the Tower of Ashshair in positions that make sense. There are a few spelling issues such as the Mountains of Mourn, Fragrant Harbor/Harbour and Halberd Pass but otherwise it's good.

    The only thing I'd wish you'd add in was the Land of the Celestial Dragon Monks to the southwest (southeast of the Mountains of Mourn) that you can see on the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms armybook map and the 8th Edition Hardback Rulebook:

    Anyway, it's good to see continued support for Warhammer and Total War from the mainland community.

    thanx brother

    yeah, u r right , there is not "monks" in that picture
    but...er...u know..there's a reason for that.
    in really chinese history, there is a more fantasy ancient religion and is more suitable for WFB world. .taoist priests' ultimate pursuit is ascending themself into supernatural beings, thus thus to become to be unworldly and eternal.
    and they call its "eclotion".

    don't you think that it is more cool and more chinese than monks(whitch was from india)?
    so i never wrote any "monk"word in that...
    I think the Celestial Dragon Monks are intended to be a reference of the "kung fu monk" concept, which is at least perceived as being a Chinese thing. While the Eastern concept of monasticism may have come from India, there do seem to be distinctions between the Chinese and Indian manifestations.

    In any sense, the "Celestial Dragon Monks" region is in the mountains that appear to form the Indish/Cathayan border, so it's very possible that in WHFB they were something associated with both. And there's nothing saying that Cathay can't contain multiple religions/philosophies.

    That said, the material we have on Cathay does have the whole Shugengan issue, which I believe is a Japanese term and should really be converted to an actual Chinese term.
  • zizizizi Registered Users Posts: 9
    Vladoff said:

    @zizi

    Many thanks for the map. It's very cool and it would be great to get something like this in the game. I'm a little connoisseur of the game universe and in my opinion it would be nice to add a map key, so that it would be easier to navigate on this map. But this does not cancel the work that you did. Thanks again for the link.

    I'm still wondering: If the СA would have taken your map for the realization of the game, you would have demanded from them some money for it insisting on your copyright rights or giving it to them for free, in order to see it in the game.



    thanx a lot~
    but the map really is a fans edition, it's just a gift.....so, please dont think too much...please ^_^b
    of cause, i'm VERY pleasure when u say this.

    actually, my original intention only was changing the image of fantasy china which likes rococo monkey garden. that's ridiculous and no cool at all! in fact real china itself contains a lot of fantay elements. and I felt it increasingly when i drew the map: the loess plateau in the northwest of china has produced the most perseverance and fierce soldiers for the last twenty five centuries(yeah, I can testify that..... one of my friends comes from there,and she is a wild beast in MMA and Kali (short club) combat by a 155cm body.....and...had nearly battered me to death by a 70cm club :'( );in the southwest, there are endless forests and everglades, there has always been source of mystical story; and in the southeast coast, only one thousand years before there was still monster-filled wildland, and a queen had to challenge a hill-like snake whit only one dog and one sword.....

    f*** off rococo monkey, Y dont we show that all?
  • urbanmechurbanmech Registered Users Posts: 1,239
    edited February 2018
    @zizi

    Hey zizi, has your side considered drawing any concept art of the Cathay units or locations mentioned in the lore?
  • talonntalonn Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 717
    Draxynnic said:

    There are a lot of races where, if you took away their army book, all they would be is footnotes or punching bags. The Lizardmen, for example, are one of the most important races in the world, yet they're practically unknown to most other races. Other army books barely mention them, if they do at all. Even the Daemon and Skaven books don't talk much about them. Without their army books to provide their lore, the Lizardmen would be in the same situation as Cathay; a mysterious, far-away faction with hints that it is important to the wider backdrop, but it isn't relevant to the stories that the lore chooses to focus on.

    Exactly this. There are a lot of races that are pretty thin on the ground when it comes to references in other books, and this goes double when you consider that once a race has an army book, GW tends to find reasons to mention it in subsequent printings of the army books for older races (Ogre Kingdoms is a good example of this). Certain people make a big deal of how Cantha was wiped out 'offscreen' during the End Times, but I have little doubt that the Lizardmen would have had a similar off-screen demise if they didn't have an army book.

    In fact, for a non-army-book race, there is a surprising amount of detail available on Cathay. Makes me think that Games Workshop may have been doing the groundwork for a release around 7E before they decided to cut their losses and kill the world instead.
    zizi said:

    @zizi

    谢谢, 弟兄

    Thank you for putting it up for download and the work you put into it, it's the most detailed of the fanmade maps I've seen of the Celestial Empire and I like how you tried to put in all the named locations from Mount Li to Beichai to Shangyang to the Tower of Ashshair in positions that make sense. There are a few spelling issues such as the Mountains of Mourn, Fragrant Harbor/Harbour and Halberd Pass but otherwise it's good.

    The only thing I'd wish you'd add in was the Land of the Celestial Dragon Monks to the southwest (southeast of the Mountains of Mourn) that you can see on the 6th Edition Ogre Kingdoms armybook map and the 8th Edition Hardback Rulebook:

    Anyway, it's good to see continued support for Warhammer and Total War from the mainland community.

    thanx brother

    yeah, u r right , there is not "monks" in that picture
    but...er...u know..there's a reason for that.
    in really chinese history, there is a more fantasy ancient religion and is more suitable for WFB world. .taoist priests' ultimate pursuit is ascending themself into supernatural beings, thus thus to become to be unworldly and eternal.
    and they call its "eclotion".

    don't you think that it is more cool and more chinese than monks(whitch was from india)?
    so i never wrote any "monk"word in that...
    I think the Celestial Dragon Monks are intended to be a reference of the "kung fu monk" concept, which is at least perceived as being a Chinese thing. While the Eastern concept of monasticism may have come from India, there do seem to be distinctions between the Chinese and Indian manifestations.

    In any sense, the "Celestial Dragon Monks" region is in the mountains that appear to form the Indish/Cathayan border, so it's very possible that in WHFB they were something associated with both. And there's nothing saying that Cathay can't contain multiple religions/philosophies.

    That said, the material we have on Cathay does have the whole Shugengan issue, which I believe is a Japanese term and should really be converted to an actual Chinese term.



    Oh yeah!
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