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Chaos and Undead: Have they used non-humans?

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  • SteppelordSteppelord Junior Member Posts: 2,231Registered Users
    Haha every few weeks somebody asks this question on the forums.
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member Lansing, MIPosts: 7,162Registered Users
    Avadon said:

    Did I ever mention Vampire Coast and Vampire Counts are the same faction?

    However, I was only talking about Vampire Counts, and not the Vampire Coast. Factionally, not all Vampires are Vampire Counts, such as the Lahmians.
    Thrones of Britannia: 69/100
    Warhammer II: 73/100
    Warhammer: 79/100
    Attila: 70/100 [Age of Charlemagne: 72/100]
    Rome II: 49/100
    Shogun II: 93/100 [Fall of the Samurai: 95/100]
    Napoleon: 58/100
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    Medieval II: 90/100 [Kingdoms: 90/100]
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  • AvadonAvadon Posts: 1,543Registered Users
    MrJade said:

    Avadon said:

    Did I ever mention Vampire Coast and Vampire Counts are the same faction?

    However, I was only talking about Vampire Counts, and not the Vampire Coast. Factionally, not all Vampires are Vampire Counts, such as the Lahmians.
    Yeap...and I just typed this "Ummm...zombie pirates?"...I can't help it if you misunderstood from the start.

    Both may use the acronym of VC, that doesn't mean they are the same "faction". The mistake was not typing "Vampire Counts" from the start.

    Not always good to generalise in the long run...though if this was a discussion rather than a forced argument. It would have been interesting.

  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member Lansing, MIPosts: 7,162Registered Users
    edited April 2018
    Avadon said:

    Not always good to generalise in the long run...though if this was a discussion rather than a forced argument. It would have been interesting.

    Point being, Counts can't use ranged weapons at all, period, and the Coast cannot de facto use ranged weapons as without short-term magical buffs they simply don't hit.

    But yes, the Coast have a unique resurrection spell that is superior to the Counts.
    Post edited by MrJade on
    Thrones of Britannia: 69/100
    Warhammer II: 73/100
    Warhammer: 79/100
    Attila: 70/100 [Age of Charlemagne: 72/100]
    Rome II: 49/100
    Shogun II: 93/100 [Fall of the Samurai: 95/100]
    Napoleon: 58/100
    Empire: 53/100
    Medieval II: 90/100 [Kingdoms: 90/100]
    Rome I: 88/100
    Medieval I: 92/100
    Shogun I: 84/100
  • AvadonAvadon Posts: 1,543Registered Users
    edited April 2018
    MrJade said:

    Avadon said:

    Not always good to generalise in the long run...though if this was a discussion rather than a forced argument. It would have been interesting.

    Point being, Counts can't use ranged weapons at all, period, and the Coast cannot de facto use ranged weapons as without short-term magical buffs they simply don't hit.

    But yes, the Coast have a unique resurrection spell that is superior to the Counts.

    Now you are just repeating both of us...

    Though you not actually being true to the faction and mentioning the rest of the ranged options...


    But I can at least provide this to the OP...

    http://sgabetto.free.fr/Telechargements/War.CZombiePirates.pdf

    One example of non-humans being reanimated are the Animated Hulks:

    Not all mariners are of human stature and girth. Indeed, many Ogres take passage
    aboard ocean-going vessels in search of money or food. Thus, not all of Harkon’s eternal
    indentured servants are man-sized, though for some reason the reanimation process often
    yields more unpredictable results.


    Normally from Ogres so that should be a good example of non humans being reanimated into undeath.

    There is another as well...Rotting Leviathan:

    There are many great and wondrous creatures in the seas of the Old World. From the Sea
    Dragons and Kraken of the Great Ocean, to the crab-like Prometheans of the Lustrian
    coastline, the sea’s bounty is truly as varied as that of land-going life. Not that Harkon
    cares much about either. He waits until they’re dead and infinitely more controllable.
    Post edited by Avadon on

  • itsonlymeitsonlyme Posts: 225Registered Users
    Zilong said:

    There's examples of a couple elf vampires in the black library books I believe.

    As for chaos, the Horned Rat is a minor chaos god and there's also the chaos dwarfs who worship another minor chaos god Hashut. So there are at least two major non-human races that are completely devoted to chaos. Plus there's weird dudes like Fimir out there, but are a bit less present in the world.

    The GW stock models for undead and chaos are typically humans yes, but thats more becaue they were mass producing things and didn't really need to diversify. Female chaos champions are a thing, but didn't really have specific models because there wasn't a huge demand. Luckily, modelers could kitbash pretty much any concept they wanted with all the model bits out there.

    They aren't chaos gods, they are just evil gods.
  • ZerglesZergles Member Posts: 3,011Registered Users
    itsonlyme said:

    Zilong said:

    There's examples of a couple elf vampires in the black library books I believe.

    As for chaos, the Horned Rat is a minor chaos god and there's also the chaos dwarfs who worship another minor chaos god Hashut. So there are at least two major non-human races that are completely devoted to chaos. Plus there's weird dudes like Fimir out there, but are a bit less present in the world.

    The GW stock models for undead and chaos are typically humans yes, but thats more becaue they were mass producing things and didn't really need to diversify. Female chaos champions are a thing, but didn't really have specific models because there wasn't a huge demand. Luckily, modelers could kitbash pretty much any concept they wanted with all the model bits out there.

    They aren't chaos gods, they are just evil gods.


    Nooo...it's pretty much common knowledge that The GHR and Hashut are minor Chaos Gods. The GHR even goes on to be less minor in AoS. (But they treat the poor guy like total crap.)

    The only real "evil" non-Chaos gods that exist would be Khaine (as Dark Elves see him), Gork and Mork, and Nagash (as worshiped by Vampires.)
  • Elder_MolochElder_Moloch Posts: 1,798Registered Users
    edited April 2018
    MrJade said:

    I'd guess because the Vampire Counts in lore cannot resurrect zombies/skeletons with souls unlike the TKs.

    Well, as far as I understand it depends from what lore we take into account. I had small discussion with IzzyStradlin where he said that according to newest Lore (for pre-ET I suppose or maybe ET/AoS), VC have some different approach to resurrection, than before (which could mean that they don't summon souls anymore in newest versions).
    But at least in some older Lore which I read (and even in 8th edition TT for VC), I found a lot about VC summoning souls in first place and than only bodies in some cases (Wraiths are obvious exception where summoned only soul).
    VC summoned souls are just worse in quality on average, since their rituals are more about quantity, not quality and they are slaves to their master not souls with duty and free will like TK one or different Ghosts from other factions.
    So tehnically they could do this, but would have worse results, than TK.
    But Zombies may indeed have no actual concept of soul or its too primitive, plus their flesh is actually debuffing them, so if to make them shoot they would have really awful results.
    Meanwhile, Wights, Skeletons, Wraiths and Vampires definitely could and could succeed with it to some extent.
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  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Posts: 6,569Registered Users
    From the 8E book, the Vampire Counts method of animation still does draw in souls. Not sure if it does with zombies, though, which might explain why zombies are weaker fighters. Skeletons certainly do, but the souls called back remember even less of their lives than Nehekharan skeletons.

    In the case of the Vampire Coast, Harkon's zombies do actually retain something of their past lives, and are thus more skilled than must zombies and skeletons (including Nehekharan ones). They still have trouble shooting straight, though.

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