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Do we really need more options for a nearly perfect race (the dawi)?

Dinogig1Dinogig1 Posts: 79Registered Users
I love the dawi but this new inclusion of new and better slayers is for me taking things too far. Remember CA still needs to fill in gaps like the gorgon in other rosters that have less variety and I believe that this wasn't the best use of CA's money and time which could be spent on fixing Empire bugs and adding more variety into the campaign like a family tree? Am I being to judgemental and please tell me your thoughts down below.
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  • PocmanPocman Posts: 2,382Registered Users
    You are being too judgemental, and you are wrong.

    Specially from an MP view, take into account that WH2 factions are clearly dominating WH1 factions, and they haven't even received their extra LLs and their lord packs.

    So yeah, Wh1 factions need some love, dwarfs included.

    Btw, adding a 2h variant is not a lot of work. Basically, a lot of modders had already done it.
  • FenristhegreatFenristhegreat Member Posts: 376Registered Users
    The pursuit of full rosters is always a worthy use of CA's time and money.

    At least to me.
  • MTechMTech Posts: 385Registered Users
    Dinogig1 said:

    I love the dawi but this new inclusion of new and better slayers is for me taking things too far. Remember CA still needs to fill in gaps like the gorgon in other rosters that have less variety and I believe that this wasn't the best use of CA's money and time which could be spent on fixing Empire bugs and adding more variety into the campaign like a family tree? Am I being to judgemental and please tell me your thoughts down below.

    I will never understand how the Ghorgon is considered a gap in the beastmen roster, but then again i never played 8ed so my Beastmen didnt need flying snails and a poor Gorro copy (mortal kombat) seriously a faction only sneaking trough the forest and ambushing travellers needs big and useless monsters how?
    Never understood that part.

    1st true melee AP antilarge for Dwarfs now thats how you fill a gap.
  • ViktorTWWforumViktorTWWforum Posts: 1,082Registered Users
    MTech said:

    Dinogig1 said:

    I love the dawi but this new inclusion of new and better slayers is for me taking things too far. Remember CA still needs to fill in gaps like the gorgon in other rosters that have less variety and I believe that this wasn't the best use of CA's money and time which could be spent on fixing Empire bugs and adding more variety into the campaign like a family tree? Am I being to judgemental and please tell me your thoughts down below.

    I will never understand how the Ghorgon is considered a gap in the beastmen roster, but then again i never played 8ed so my Beastmen didnt need flying snails and a poor Gorro copy (mortal kombat) seriously a faction only sneaking trough the forest and ambushing travellers needs big and useless monsters how?
    Never understood that part.

    1st true melee AP antilarge for Dwarfs now thats how you fill a gap.
    Necrospinx counterpart with regen.
  • Mac_Mac_MacMac_Mac_Mac Posts: 98Registered Users
    Yeeeessss always more.. Agree with @Pocman, WH2 races are overwhelming WH1 races.
    Besides it wil be a enourmous complement to have Giant Slayers for Dwarfs, huge MA and armor-piercing. Those cavalry will melt now at their charges.
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Posts: 2,082Registered Users
    The Dawi have plenty of things that can be fixed. Their roster is not complete, there are still some unit gaps that can be filled, the really annoying grudge system still exists, Ungrim still starts in Karaz-a-Karak, and they lack any really good mechanic that makes them unique in the campaign. Army abilities could be added for siege defenders like the game II races, they could get a general army ability, etc...
    I would hold off judgment until the changes are actually released or at least announced. All we know is that the Dawi are getting Giant Slayers. That doesn't mean that other units from other rosters won't make it in the future. The Dawi could be a testing race for CA to make changes on and see how they are received by the community. I wouldn't say they are the race in need of the most changes (*cough* Empire *cough cough*), but they are a good starting point to make some changes that everyone generally agrees upon (crafting, Ungrim moved, etc.). And a lot of people like the Dawi, just like you like the Beastmen, and think they need some changes. Hopefully, the Norsca update will include some great thing for the Dawi that will open the doors for more game I races to be updated.
  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    This new unit would literally take 1 hour to implement lol... its a reskin of a unit in game, not even sure if it has new voices but that would add a tiny bit more work, doubtful as CA hate to spend money while not making any.

    Overall out of every unit they could of added this has to be the worst one... its like CA employees were dualing each other and one cried dwarfs dont have good enough AL and so this was added over lunch :\

    Very lack luster in my opinion... not sure why everyone is giddy over this, Black Orcs with shields would take just as much work but havent been added.
  • KhorneFlakesKhorneFlakes Posts: 3,373Registered Users
    yes

    Balance Is A Lie

  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Posts: 2,962Registered Users
    edited April 2018
    Perfect race? They have no cavalry, magic, or monsters. Giant slayers are only going to matter in MP matches against tomb kings and lizardmen. Maybe greenskins if its double arachnarok builds.
  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Posts: 1,834Registered Users

    Perfect race? They have no cavalry, magic, or monsters. Giant slayers are only going to matter in MP matches against tomb kings and lizardmen. Maybe greenskins if its double arachnarok builds.

    MP lol... MP has like 6% of the playerbase playing it, leave MP to TW Arena and focus SP...
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Posts: 2,962Registered Users

    Perfect race? They have no cavalry, magic, or monsters. Giant slayers are only going to matter in MP matches against tomb kings and lizardmen. Maybe greenskins if its double arachnarok builds.

    MP lol... MP has like 6% of the playerbase playing it, leave MP to TW Arena and focus SP...
    No **** MP is the minority. You can win in SP with just about any build you want.
  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Posts: 1,834Registered Users

    Perfect race? They have no cavalry, magic, or monsters. Giant slayers are only going to matter in MP matches against tomb kings and lizardmen. Maybe greenskins if its double arachnarok builds.

    MP lol... MP has like 6% of the playerbase playing it, leave MP to TW Arena and focus SP...
    No **** MP is the minority. You can win in SP with just about any build you want.
    On easy maybe son...
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Posts: 2,962Registered Users

    Perfect race? They have no cavalry, magic, or monsters. Giant slayers are only going to matter in MP matches against tomb kings and lizardmen. Maybe greenskins if its double arachnarok builds.

    MP lol... MP has like 6% of the playerbase playing it, leave MP to TW Arena and focus SP...
    No **** MP is the minority. You can win in SP with just about any build you want.
    On easy maybe son...
    Quit talking up SP. Especially a dwarf campaign. Tech buffs, army buffs, and veteran rank units allow you to use t1/t2 units in the late game. I am also not your son.
  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Posts: 1,834Registered Users

    Perfect race? They have no cavalry, magic, or monsters. Giant slayers are only going to matter in MP matches against tomb kings and lizardmen. Maybe greenskins if its double arachnarok builds.

    MP lol... MP has like 6% of the playerbase playing it, leave MP to TW Arena and focus SP...
    No **** MP is the minority. You can win in SP with just about any build you want.
    On easy maybe son...
    Quit talking up SP. Especially a dwarf campaign. Tech buffs, army buffs, and veteran rank units allow you to use t1/t2 units in the late game. I am also not your son.
    The game is a SP game son... what you on about talking up SP lol? Stop defending MP :\ its bad.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Posts: 2,962Registered Users
    edited April 2018

    Perfect race? They have no cavalry, magic, or monsters. Giant slayers are only going to matter in MP matches against tomb kings and lizardmen. Maybe greenskins if its double arachnarok builds.

    MP lol... MP has like 6% of the playerbase playing it, leave MP to TW Arena and focus SP...
    No **** MP is the minority. You can win in SP with just about any build you want.
    On easy maybe son...
    Quit talking up SP. Especially a dwarf campaign. Tech buffs, army buffs, and veteran rank units allow you to use t1/t2 units in the late game. I am also not your son.
    The game is a SP game son... what you on about talking up SP lol? Stop defending MP :\ its bad.
    I am not defending MP. I stated that the unit will have more relevance there. No **** this is primarily a SP game as is every Total War title. Comment removed.
    Post edited by dge1 on
  • ZerglesZergles Member Posts: 3,011Registered Users
    The Dawi have quite a bit of room to grow. And Grace said that the Dawi are not the only ones being updated. It is most likely all of the OW factions. Or at least the original four.

    But on Dwarfs: they still have major issues dealing with certain things. Cavalry. Monsters. Fast skirmishers. Anti armor units of some types (When Norsca gets added back, Marauder Champs will be a big issue. As will be heavily armored monsters.)

    Right now Dwarfs have to rely on their ranged units to deal with a lot of things. Their infantry can all be kites into oblivion. Even Slayers. If they get an anti armor, anti large option, that will work very well for them.

    On top of that...you don't know what other factions are getting. Dwarfs may need more to deal with what is coming soon. And again, if we remember Norsca vs. Dwarfs in TWWH1, Dwarfs struggled quite a bit with all the anti armor options Norsca could bring.
  • ZerglesZergles Member Posts: 3,011Registered Users
    edited April 2018

    Perfect race? They have no cavalry, magic, or monsters. Giant slayers are only going to matter in MP matches against tomb kings and lizardmen. Maybe greenskins if its double arachnarok builds.

    MP lol... MP has like 6% of the playerbase playing it, leave MP to TW Arena and focus SP...
    No **** MP is the minority. You can win in SP with just about any build you want.
    On easy maybe son...
    Quit talking up SP. Especially a dwarf campaign. Tech buffs, army buffs, and veteran rank units allow you to use t1/t2 units in the late game. I am also not your son.
    The game is a SP game son... what you on about talking up SP lol? Stop defending MP :\ its bad.
    The MP playerbase is growing dude. And MP is the only way to actually test unit to unit balance since the AI is not able to use its armies correctly in every instance. MP is fun. My invitation to play against you and teach you is still open. If you took the time to try, and stop patting yourself on the back for playing Legendary campaigns against predictable AI, you may enjoy it.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Posts: 3,072Registered Users
    Dwarfs are in a good place compared to the other cores of game 1, but wouldn't say perfect. It is possible that they are slowly increasing support for 1, and are starting with factions that least need it (bretonia then Dwarfs). Also we don't know that Dwarfs are only faction that gets stuff this patch. The "hungry" thing suggests something else, perhaps Grom or Ghorgon.
  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Zergles said:

    Perfect race? They have no cavalry, magic, or monsters. Giant slayers are only going to matter in MP matches against tomb kings and lizardmen. Maybe greenskins if its double arachnarok builds.

    MP lol... MP has like 6% of the playerbase playing it, leave MP to TW Arena and focus SP...
    No **** MP is the minority. You can win in SP with just about any build you want.
    On easy maybe son...
    Quit talking up SP. Especially a dwarf campaign. Tech buffs, army buffs, and veteran rank units allow you to use t1/t2 units in the late game. I am also not your son.
    The game is a SP game son... what you on about talking up SP lol? Stop defending MP :\ its bad.
    The MP playerbase is growing dude. And MP is the only way to actually test unit to unit balance since the AI is not able to use its armies correctly in every instance. MP is fun. My invitation to play against you and teach you is still open. If you took the time to try, and stop patting yourself on the back for playing Legendary campaigns against presictable AI, you may enjoy it.
    No MP is not the only way to test balance at all... MP balance does not dictate SP balance... not 1 single little bit. So stop spewing this all over :\

    MP is bad, the battles are tiny, it plays nothing like SP and never will.

    SP AI is bad not gonna deny it but its the best we have :\ still more fun than MP will ever be.
  • SakuraHeinzSakuraHeinz Junior Member Posts: 2,165Registered Users
    I dont see any problem with any faction getting new units the more the better, dont care if I can use them or if I have to fight them.
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Posts: 2,082Registered Users
    Take it easy! SP is where most people play, but MP also plays an important role in balancing. Both are viable for discussion, but SP tends to be more difficult to universally relate to and balance due to the buffs that can be given to various units through skill and tech trees. Both are relevant, but MP is easier to discuss as it isn't specific to every campaign and/or army in the campaign.
    This is also not the only thing that is going to be added. CA didn't ask what the one unit they could add that would satisfy everyone and think, "I know, Giant Slayers!" This is only the tip of the iceberg, and there will be more impressive stuff on the way. Everyone is excited because this opens the possibility of other units (like Ghorgorn and the Knight of the White Wolf) to be added in the future. This is just a tease of what will come. And who doesn't want more units anyway?
  • Xalek96Xalek96 Junior Member Posts: 310Registered Users
    are people complaining that we are getting something for free ?, guys do take note that this is just an example of what we might get, its a good show that they haven't just left old world races dead in the water, this could be a great start of things to come.
    "Heavily armoured, gilded, decked out in layers of steel that an Empire warhorse would have struggled to carry, let alone charge with. Formidable. Not for nothing did men across the Old World fear the onslaught of the knights of Bretonnia." -- Reiksmarshal Kurt Helborg, observing Bretonnia's Knights.
    ep12xtrgw3gn.jpg



  • mw51630mw51630 Member Posts: 1,593Registered Users
    It's because of people like the OP that we can't have nice things... :'(
  • VemberVember Posts: 88Registered Users
    I don't mind extra units for anyone, but that being said, Dwarves are the easiest for me to do well on in the game as it currently stands.
  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    I dont mind new things but this unit literally doesnt impact the game at all... its basically an MP feature due to dwarfs weak AL, in SP you dont build slayers because they suck! but in MP they are good because its an all in kind of battle, you dont care if they have 3 men left or die as long as they do their job, in SP even if they kill a full unit of cav i bet they still lose half their models while a group of long beards would just win the melee battle and lose few models on charge. Long beards also come as the default unit, slayers need a building of their own and need lord skills to buff them, long beards get all this and get tech buffs earlier too.

    End of the day this unit is border line useless for SP.
  • NemoxNemox Posts: 2,622Registered Users
    edited April 2018
    Comment removed.

    Now that is out of the way... I think others have covered precisely why the Dwarfs are in need of something. Besides, this makes it more likely to see more Old World love!

    I'm a bit more hopeful than I was before the news.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,640Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Side conversation removed. If anyone wants to argue semantics then take if offline. Also, the topic of this thread is not on SP versus MP. Discuss the OP's topic, without being argumentative or insulting.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Posts: 7,671Registered Users

    The Dawi have plenty of things that can be fixed. Their roster is not complete, there are still some unit gaps that can be filled, the really annoying grudge system still exists, Ungrim still starts in Karaz-a-Karak, and they lack any really good mechanic that makes them unique in the campaign. Army abilities could be added for siege defenders like the game II races, they could get a general army ability, etc...
    I would hold off judgment until the changes are actually released or at least announced. All we know is that the Dawi are getting Giant Slayers. That doesn't mean that other units from other rosters won't make it in the future. The Dawi could be a testing race for CA to make changes on and see how they are received by the community. I wouldn't say they are the race in need of the most changes (*cough* Empire *cough cough*), but they are a good starting point to make some changes that everyone generally agrees upon (crafting, Ungrim moved, etc.). And a lot of people like the Dawi, just like you like the Beastmen, and think they need some changes. Hopefully, the Norsca update will include some great thing for the Dawi that will open the doors for more game I races to be updated.

    I agree 100% with all this!
    Read all my replies as if we are having a pint and a good old time. I will always read your reply like that.
  • PocmanPocman Posts: 2,382Registered Users

    Zergles said:

    Perfect race? They have no cavalry, magic, or monsters. Giant slayers are only going to matter in MP matches against tomb kings and lizardmen. Maybe greenskins if its double arachnarok builds.

    MP lol... MP has like 6% of the playerbase playing it, leave MP to TW Arena and focus SP...
    No **** MP is the minority. You can win in SP with just about any build you want.
    On easy maybe son...
    Quit talking up SP. Especially a dwarf campaign. Tech buffs, army buffs, and veteran rank units allow you to use t1/t2 units in the late game. I am also not your son.
    The game is a SP game son... what you on about talking up SP lol? Stop defending MP :\ its bad.
    The MP playerbase is growing dude. And MP is the only way to actually test unit to unit balance since the AI is not able to use its armies correctly in every instance. MP is fun. My invitation to play against you and teach you is still open. If you took the time to try, and stop patting yourself on the back for playing Legendary campaigns against presictable AI, you may enjoy it.
    No MP is not the only way to test balance at all... MP balance does not dictate SP balance... not 1 single little bit. So stop spewing this all over :\

    MP is bad, the battles are tiny, it plays nothing like SP and never will.

    SP AI is bad not gonna deny it but its the best we have :\ still more fun than MP will ever be.
    So basically you suck. Oook.
  • GingerRoeBroGingerRoeBro Senior Member Posts: 3,037Registered Users
    Pocman said:

    Zergles said:

    Perfect race? They have no cavalry, magic, or monsters. Giant slayers are only going to matter in MP matches against tomb kings and lizardmen. Maybe greenskins if its double arachnarok builds.

    MP lol... MP has like 6% of the playerbase playing it, leave MP to TW Arena and focus SP...
    No **** MP is the minority. You can win in SP with just about any build you want.
    On easy maybe son...
    Quit talking up SP. Especially a dwarf campaign. Tech buffs, army buffs, and veteran rank units allow you to use t1/t2 units in the late game. I am also not your son.
    The game is a SP game son... what you on about talking up SP lol? Stop defending MP :\ its bad.
    The MP playerbase is growing dude. And MP is the only way to actually test unit to unit balance since the AI is not able to use its armies correctly in every instance. MP is fun. My invitation to play against you and teach you is still open. If you took the time to try, and stop patting yourself on the back for playing Legendary campaigns against presictable AI, you may enjoy it.
    No MP is not the only way to test balance at all... MP balance does not dictate SP balance... not 1 single little bit. So stop spewing this all over :\

    MP is bad, the battles are tiny, it plays nothing like SP and never will.

    SP AI is bad not gonna deny it but its the best we have :\ still more fun than MP will ever be.
    So basically you suck. Oook.
    Or maybe it's an opinion that differs from yours?
    Bigger Budget for game 3?

    They're gonna need it for all of the monogod glory.
    Which will be the "4 distinct gods representing the different aspects of Chaos such as Khorne, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle." :blush: ^CA quote

    Thank you CA for seeing them as what they truly are.
    Let the Games Begin!
    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/The_Great_Game
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