Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Is there light cavalry for Empire in the Lore or TT?

RazeAndBurnRazeAndBurn Registered Users Posts: 82
edited April 2018 in General Discussion
It feels weird chasing crossbowmen with Reiksguard. Empire could use something with 80 speed, easier building requirements and a cost lower than 900g(I'm looking at you Empire Knights) for tactical flexibility.

Edit: Pistoliers and Outriders fulfill a different role and have very low MA, MD and Charge stats.

Also another funny example from my Empire campaigns: I used Zintler's Reiksguard soley to rush down AI Hellcannons because ZR's were the only unit with Vanguard Deployment.
Post edited by RazeAndBurn on

Comments

  • blaatblaat Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,121
    out riders or pistoliers

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
  • TolgharTolghar Registered Users Posts: 97
    Ironic that empire knight and knights errants are true light cav of their respective factions XD
  • BaronKlatzBaronKlatz Registered Users Posts: 1,037
    Well in a world like Warhammer the "heavy" stuff here is lightweight. We've only had to deal with other humans, not monsters that can shrug off a cannonball. XD

    Also, by the lore, their is the seldom mentioned demi-lancers like in "Riders of the Dead" which are basically pistoliers with spears.
  • RazeAndBurnRazeAndBurn Registered Users Posts: 82
    blaat said:

    out riders or pistoliers

    Melee Attack and Defence on those are crap, the Charge of Bonus of 8 is just... unspeakable!
  • Michael4537Michael4537 Registered Users Posts: 2,358
    BUT THE CHARGE OF THE REIKSGUARD IS SO EPIC!

    Seriously though, I love Lizardmen, but Reiksguard are probably my favorite unit in the entire game. If you want something with "tactical flexibility," look no further than the finest bodyguards of the Emperor himself. With 120 armor, solid melee stats, and decent speed, these units pack a serious punch on the charge and have the melee defense to function almost like a melee cavalry. Even without a bonus vs large, the Reiksguard can hold their own against many of the old and new world's cavalries. They shine even more in the campaign, especially when in the presence of the Emperor when they can receive substantial bonuses to their combat states and even receive a bonus vs large. And coming in at only 1150 gold per unit, they are arguably one of the most cost-effective units in the game.

    Anybody want to buy my old pickup while we're at it?
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 25,107
    Outriders and Pistoliers are light cavalry. Their role is to harass the enemy and chase down routing units, exactly the role light cavalry fulfills. What you want is medium cavalry, which the Empire doesn't have.

  • RazeAndBurnRazeAndBurn Registered Users Posts: 82

    Outriders and Pistoliers are light cavalry. Their role is to harass the enemy and chase down routing units, exactly the role light cavalry fulfills. What you want is medium cavalry, which the Empire doesn't have.

    Just ran test in W1TW: Outriders lose in melee to crossbowmen... Chasing a routing unit off the battlefield? Maybe that do that, but routing a basic ranged unit is already beyond them.
  • psychoakpsychoak Registered Users Posts: 3,080
    You did it wrong. You run the outrider around to flank the crossbows, shoot the crap out of them, and when they turn to fire back, you charge. You get another shot off in the way in, and then pull back out when they start fighting back. If you don't break them on the first run, you'll do it on the second.

    The idea is not to be engaged, charge in when they're going to fire on you, pull back and shoot them up again when they try to chase you.
  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,834
    psychoak said:

    You did it wrong. You run the outrider around to flank the crossbows, shoot the crap out of them, and when they turn to fire back, you charge. You get another shot off in the way in, and then pull back out when they start fighting back. If you don't break them on the first run, you'll do it on the second.

    The idea is not to be engaged, charge in when they're going to fire on you, pull back and shoot them up again when they try to chase you.

    No you dont lol... outriders suck vrs most ranged they are used to kite slower melee units.

    Ranged infantry melt both outriders and pistoliers.

    The issue with empire is reiksgaurd make empire knights obsolete... specially under franz.

    They should make empire knights weaker and cheaper as they just cost too much when reiksgaurd are better in everyway and a tiny bit more upkeep
  • PrayPray Registered Users Posts: 1,407
    Demigryph knights
  • ZerglesZergles Member Registered Users Posts: 3,014

    blaat said:

    out riders or pistoliers

    Melee Attack and Defence on those are crap, the Charge of Bonus of 8 is just... unspeakable!
    Better than mounted Yeoman, and they get to shoot at stuff as they charge in.
  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,834
    Zergles said:

    blaat said:

    out riders or pistoliers

    Melee Attack and Defence on those are crap, the Charge of Bonus of 8 is just... unspeakable!
    Better than mounted Yeoman, and they get to shoot at stuff as they charge in.
    Nah... yeoman are much better, longer range and everything :|
  • ZerglesZergles Member Registered Users Posts: 3,014

    Zergles said:

    blaat said:

    out riders or pistoliers

    Melee Attack and Defence on those are crap, the Charge of Bonus of 8 is just... unspeakable!
    Better than mounted Yeoman, and they get to shoot at stuff as they charge in.
    Nah... yeoman are much better, longer range and everything :|

    Mounted Yo-Dawg Archers are a different unit.
  • psychoakpsychoak Registered Users Posts: 3,080

    psychoak said:

    You did it wrong. You run the outrider around to flank the crossbows, shoot the crap out of them, and when they turn to fire back, you charge. You get another shot off in the way in, and then pull back out when they start fighting back. If you don't break them on the first run, you'll do it on the second.

    The idea is not to be engaged, charge in when they're going to fire on you, pull back and shoot them up again when they try to chase you.

    No you dont lol... outriders suck vrs most ranged they are used to kite slower melee units.

    Ranged infantry melt both outriders and pistoliers.
    Oh great and powerful Oz, how did you become so wise...

    Any unit as Lord mod, started outside crossbow range, no distractions, just a head on ass kicking in the opposite of ideal circumstances. Now, I wouldn't recommend you do that to quarrelers, but the typical lightly armored pure archer unit will always be dog meat, even against pistoliers.
  • RazeAndBurnRazeAndBurn Registered Users Posts: 82
    psychoak said:

    psychoak said:

    You did it wrong. You run the outrider around to flank the crossbows, shoot the crap out of them, and when they turn to fire back, you charge. You get another shot off in the way in, and then pull back out when they start fighting back. If you don't break them on the first run, you'll do it on the second.

    The idea is not to be engaged, charge in when they're going to fire on you, pull back and shoot them up again when they try to chase you.

    No you dont lol... outriders suck vrs most ranged they are used to kite slower melee units.

    Ranged infantry melt both outriders and pistoliers.
    Oh great and powerful Oz, how did you become so wise...

    Any unit as Lord mod, started outside crossbow range, no distractions, just a head on ass kicking in the opposite of ideal circumstances. Now, I wouldn't recommend you do that to quarrelers, but the typical lightly armored pure archer unit will always be dog meat, even against pistoliers.
    Only if you micro them and cycle charge abusing the fire on the move ability. How about something that doesn't require micro?
  • baronblackbaronblack Registered Users Posts: 3,218
    Do you want medium cavalry? (that does not exist in WH, ofc, it's better translated as "high speed shock cavalry") You have to wait for Kislev.

    You know, winged lancers are not on the same tier of Reiksguard and Knights of the Realm in durability. But they are faster...
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Registered Users Posts: 8,566
    Pistoliers should be light cavalry of some repute. They’ve had a total remake for this game. In the table top they packed a whallop on the charge with their brace of pistols and were relatively fast but not as fast as they are here. I’d take table top Pistoliers over TWW Pistoliers any day of the week.
    Lord of the Undermountain and your friendly neighbourhood giant (Dwarf)
    Favourite campaigns: Clan Angrund, Followers of Nagash and the new Huntsmarshall’s Expedition
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member Lansing, MIRegistered Users Posts: 7,165
    Pistoliers are bugged, have been bugged, and apparently will always be bugged, but in the TT, they had much better melee capabilities and did act like valuable light cavalry.

    If you are looking for medium cavalry, as stated above, those don't exist here, sadly.
    Thrones of Britannia: 69/100
    Warhammer II: 73/100
    Warhammer: 79/100
    Attila: 70/100 [Age of Charlemagne: 72/100]
    Rome II: 49/100
    Shogun II: 93/100 [Fall of the Samurai: 95/100]
    Napoleon: 58/100
    Empire: 53/100
    Medieval II: 90/100 [Kingdoms: 90/100]
    Rome I: 88/100
    Medieval I: 92/100
    Shogun I: 84/100
  • TheImperialWarriorTheImperialWarrior Registered Users Posts: 739

    Do you want medium cavalry? (that does not exist in WH, ofc, it's better translated as "high speed shock cavalry") You have to wait for Kislev.

    You know, winged lancers are not on the same tier of Reiksguard and Knights of the Realm in durability. But they are faster...

    Wait wait wait:)
    You mean in the lore or TWW?
    Cause in the lore empire knights have the same stats as knights of the Realm
  • psychoakpsychoak Registered Users Posts: 3,080

    psychoak said:

    psychoak said:

    You did it wrong. You run the outrider around to flank the crossbows, shoot the crap out of them, and when they turn to fire back, you charge. You get another shot off in the way in, and then pull back out when they start fighting back. If you don't break them on the first run, you'll do it on the second.

    The idea is not to be engaged, charge in when they're going to fire on you, pull back and shoot them up again when they try to chase you.

    No you dont lol... outriders suck vrs most ranged they are used to kite slower melee units.

    Ranged infantry melt both outriders and pistoliers.
    Oh great and powerful Oz, how did you become so wise...

    Any unit as Lord mod, started outside crossbow range, no distractions, just a head on ass kicking in the opposite of ideal circumstances. Now, I wouldn't recommend you do that to quarrelers, but the typical lightly armored pure archer unit will always be dog meat, even against pistoliers.
    Only if you micro them and cycle charge abusing the fire on the move ability. How about something that doesn't require micro?
    I'm guessing you think chariots suck too?

    This is literally the way the game is designed. Why do you think their charge boost sucks so hard? It's not like they're super cheap, it's because they know you can shoot the crap out of your target on the way in, and if they make the charge itself be good enough, they'll be seriously over powered and wreck everything. Instead, they've got sad, pathetic, light infantry caliber stats, to go with that volley of fire that hammers the enemy on the way in.

    If you try to one off archers with pretty much any light cavalry, you're screwing them over big time. This ends up being true all the way into units like wild riders, who are pretty epic off the charge, but still perform far better when well managed. If you really don't want to micro, then use rockets. Two helstorm batteries will drop archers like flies.
  • baronblackbaronblack Registered Users Posts: 3,218
    psychoak said:

    psychoak said:

    psychoak said:

    You did it wrong. You run the outrider around to flank the crossbows, shoot the crap out of them, and when they turn to fire back, you charge. You get another shot off in the way in, and then pull back out when they start fighting back. If you don't break them on the first run, you'll do it on the second.

    The idea is not to be engaged, charge in when they're going to fire on you, pull back and shoot them up again when they try to chase you.

    No you dont lol... outriders suck vrs most ranged they are used to kite slower melee units.

    Ranged infantry melt both outriders and pistoliers.
    Oh great and powerful Oz, how did you become so wise...

    Any unit as Lord mod, started outside crossbow range, no distractions, just a head on ass kicking in the opposite of ideal circumstances. Now, I wouldn't recommend you do that to quarrelers, but the typical lightly armored pure archer unit will always be dog meat, even against pistoliers.
    Only if you micro them and cycle charge abusing the fire on the move ability. How about something that doesn't require micro?
    I'm guessing you think chariots suck too?

    This is literally the way the game is designed. Why do you think their charge boost sucks so hard? It's not like they're super cheap, it's because they know you can shoot the crap out of your target on the way in, and if they make the charge itself be good enough, they'll be seriously over powered and wreck everything. Instead, they've got sad, pathetic, light infantry caliber stats, to go with that volley of fire that hammers the enemy on the way in.

    If you try to one off archers with pretty much any light cavalry, you're screwing them over big time. This ends up being true all the way into units like wild riders, who are pretty epic off the charge, but still perform far better when well managed. If you really don't want to micro, then use rockets. Two helstorm batteries will drop archers like flies.
    Press J and Repeat.

    Fun with chariots.

    Nerf them CA, for my peace sake
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 3,830
    Just outriders and pistoliers.
  • RazeAndBurnRazeAndBurn Registered Users Posts: 82
    psychoak said:



    I'm guessing you think chariots suck too?

    This is literally the way the game is designed. Why do you think their charge boost sucks so hard? It's not like they're super cheap, it's because they know you can shoot the crap out of your target on the way in, and if they make the charge itself be good enough, they'll be seriously over powered and wreck everything. Instead, they've got sad, pathetic, light infantry caliber stats, to go with that volley of fire that hammers the enemy on the way in.

    If you try to one off archers with pretty much any light cavalry, you're screwing them over big time. This ends up being true all the way into units like wild riders, who are pretty epic off the charge, but still perform far better when well managed. If you really don't want to micro, then use rockets. Two helstorm batteries will drop archers like flies.

    First of all chariots are a completely different unit with its' own mechanics that was in TW series since RTW.

    Second - microing a unti of skirmish cav to overcome their design weakness(which exactly there to prevent them being used as light cav) is not convenient. I'd say the game stats discourage that use e

    How about Ellyrian Reaver Archers? They are designed to be a mix of light and skirmish cav and they have Melee stats to reflect that. Pistoliers/Outriders don't stand up anywhere close to that, specifically because they are designed differently. Do you think they are " seriously over powered and wreck everything"?


    To those who say that the game has no place for light cav: where do you classify the Dark Riders then? This is the the type of light cav Empire is missing.
Sign In or Register to comment.