Welcome

Please register for Total War Access to use the forums. If you're an existing user, your forum details will be merged with Total War Access if you register with the same email or username. For more information please read our FAQ’s here.

Categories

Why is this game so imbalanced?

lucibuislucibuis Posts: 2,524Registered Users
Why is it so that some races get a lot of content and attention and others are left to rot with the minimum? I've never seen a fantasy game with such a messy asymmetrical philosophy, usually races are roughly equal in content and power.

Is this a design decision or just the lack of proper planning? It's so messy it's offputting

Comments

  • drakeof5ddrakeof5d Junior Member Posts: 235Registered Users
    That s the question everyone seek an answer. Not even the greatest scholar can answer u this. Only CA know
  • DolorousEddDolorousEdd Junior Member Posts: 555Registered Users
    edited May 2018
    Because these are the early stages of Game 2. Because given the success of Game 1, Game 2 had way more resources to spare, hence the more fleshed out races in Game 2. Because developing a game takes time, and there are at least 2 more years of Warhammer. Because according to CA's own policy, you can't have DLC for DLC.
    I thought all of this was obvious.
    [Edit: Oh, and power-wise, there isn't a single race you can't work with and lead successfull campaigns and battles.]
    Team Dwarfs
    Team Bretonnia
    Team Crooked Moon
    Team Cult of Pleasure
    Team Clan Pestilens
  • FinishingLastFinishingLast Posts: 4,145Registered Users
    Get over it already. Wood Elves have one of the most complete rosters. It’s not about being equal in amount of content. It’s about being equal in quality and accuracy. There is no reason to add a bunch of extra fairy dragons and stuff to the Wood Elves. At best they could use LLs that aren’t in the same area.
    Later
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,221Registered Users
    It's imbalanced because you only own half of it.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,656Registered Users
    This game is quite imbalanced in campaign, mainly between 'old world factions' and 'new world factions', 'old world factions' still didn't got their Rites, while as the same time this game is too balanced in custom battles, where the multiplayer community is making CA to nerf many good units, and make them almost useless, like in case of Mortis Engine. Also in case of "DLC races" it's even worse, thanks to "no DLC for DLC" policy. Yes there is some lack of proper planning, and some power creep involved. CA should had sold the Wood Elves units and characters in multiple parts, and even more so for Beastmen.
  • MrJadeMrJade Senior Member Lansing, MIPosts: 7,162Registered Users
    In OWE, WE are really powerful. What is the issue there?
    Thrones of Britannia: 69/100
    Warhammer II: 73/100
    Warhammer: 79/100
    Attila: 70/100 [Age of Charlemagne: 72/100]
    Rome II: 49/100
    Shogun II: 93/100 [Fall of the Samurai: 95/100]
    Napoleon: 58/100
    Empire: 53/100
    Medieval II: 90/100 [Kingdoms: 90/100]
    Rome I: 88/100
    Medieval I: 92/100
    Shogun I: 84/100
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Posts: 3,043Registered Users
    edited May 2018
    A lot of factions means a lot of variables to juggle. This by far the most difficult total war title to balance because of that. It also doesn't help that CA only patches the game when DLC releases.
  • mitthrawnuruodomitthrawnuruodo Junior Member Posts: 1,754Registered Users
    edited May 2018
    It is whimsical and poorly thought out decision-making, mixed with lack of care for the fact that most of their customers enjoy some factions over others, as well as a tendency to double down on bad decisions.

    Even their DLC is unbalanced -
    • One side gets a dragon riding mage lord with 5 variants, new magic cavalry, a whip-wielding gladiator unit, a monster RoR, and new flying cavalry RoR unlike any other unit in their roster, and some "surprise addition" post launch.
    • The other side gets a hybrid archer hero, a hybrid archer unit, a stealth hybrid archer unit, RoRs that are slight modifications of existing foot units, and apparently no additions post-launch.
    They originally planned to launch the Lizardman FLC lord along with this DLC, which was a very good move. All faction would have had something new on 31st may. But they figured HE fans would be unhappy about getting shafted in the DLC. Instead of adding more content in the DLC for the HE, they doubled down on the bad decisions and pushed up the HE FLC lord instead.
  • Arthas_MenethilArthas_Menethil Senior Member Posts: 5,633Registered Users

    It is whimsical and poorly thought out decision-making, mixed with lack of care for the fact that most of their customers enjoy some factions over others, as well as a tendency to double down on bad decisions.

    Even their DLC is unbalanced -

    • One side gets a dragon riding mage lord with 5 variants, new magic cavalry, a whip-wielding gladiator unit, a monster RoR, and new flying cavalry RoR unlike any other unit in their roster, and some "surprise addition" post launch.
    • The other side gets a hybrid archer hero, a hybrid archer unit, a stealth hybrid archer unit, RoRs that are slight modifications of existing foot units, and apparently no additions post-launch.
    They originally planned to launch the Lizardman FLC lord along with this DLC, which was a very good move. All faction would have had something new on 31st may. But they figured HE fans would be unhappy about getting shafted in the DLC. Instead of adding more content in the DLC for the HE, they doubled down on the bad decisions and pushed up the HE FLC lord instead.
    Actually the original game 2 FLC list has the HE FLC LL before the Lizardmen LL

    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/71bfq1/total_war_warhammer_ii_freelc_array/
    So...the Light's vaunted justice has finally arrived. Shall I lay down Frostmourne and throw myself at your mercy, Fordring?

  • ystyst Posts: 6,408Registered Users
    Nothing more than extreme elven favourtism and fanboism from the ca part.

    The cancellation of a planned andschedule liz legendary lord flc infaour for more elf is extremely crystal clear.

    Even in balancing, all we see if nerf nonelf and most situations r highly favoured towards those 3 elves.

    Just go on with the flow i suppose, nothing easier than playing cheesy elf. They will do minate the game for months to come, until some update gets released.
    https://imgur.com/a/Cj4b9
    Top #3 Leaderboard on Warhammer Totalwar.
  • mitthrawnuruodomitthrawnuruodo Junior Member Posts: 1,754Registered Users

    It is whimsical and poorly thought out decision-making, mixed with lack of care for the fact that most of their customers enjoy some factions over others, as well as a tendency to double down on bad decisions.

    Even their DLC is unbalanced -

    • One side gets a dragon riding mage lord with 5 variants, new magic cavalry, a whip-wielding gladiator unit, a monster RoR, and new flying cavalry RoR unlike any other unit in their roster, and some "surprise addition" post launch.
    • The other side gets a hybrid archer hero, a hybrid archer unit, a stealth hybrid archer unit, RoRs that are slight modifications of existing foot units, and apparently no additions post-launch.
    They originally planned to launch the Lizardman FLC lord along with this DLC, which was a very good move. All faction would have had something new on 31st may. But they figured HE fans would be unhappy about getting shafted in the DLC. Instead of adding more content in the DLC for the HE, they doubled down on the bad decisions and pushed up the HE FLC lord instead.
    Actually the original game 2 FLC list has the HE FLC LL before the Lizardmen LL

    https://www.reddit.com/r/totalwar/comments/71bfq1/total_war_warhammer_ii_freelc_array/
    ... which was changed to LM, I assume, after they decided on the subject of the first DLC. That is the good move I am referring to.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Posts: 3,043Registered Users
    edited May 2018
    yst said:

    Nothing more than extreme elven favourtism and fanboism from the ca part.

    The cancellation of a planned andschedule liz legendary lord flc infaour for more elf is extremely crystal clear.

    Even in balancing, all we see if nerf nonelf and most situations r highly favoured towards those 3 elves.

    Just go on with the flow i suppose, nothing easier than playing cheesy elf. They will do minate the game for months to come, until some update gets released.

    And the next update would be the second lord pack.
  • endurendur Posts: 3,241Registered Users
    It has always been this way in Warhammer. The newest faction has the most toys. You could look at the GW books from the 1980's and see the progression.

    That said, Total War is doing a better job of balance than GW ever did.


  • EnforestEnforest Posts: 2,087Registered Users
    I like how is everyone attacking OP just because of the Allariele meme, while he hasn't even mentioned anything regarding WE and is in fact 100% correct: there are glaring issues with quality and quantity gaps betwen both core and DLC factions since game 1, I don't even have to name them because it is obvious.

    I'd like to basically repeat after @DolorousEdd and say that we're on the way of more reworked factions, since Dwarven update seems very good and promising. Hopefully, Empire and Greenskins get updated skill and tech trees, fixed holes in the roster (GS mainly) and more starting positions. Later, WoC and Beastmen get roster expansions, along with WE more LLs.

    That's my wishlist for game 2-3 post-launch support.


    Demand more love for Empire, Greenskins and Beastmen! Playable Middenland with Cult of Ulric! Expanded Beastmen roster with Ghorgon and Jabberslythe! Bring back Black Orcs variants and Orc Big Boss heroes!
  • sieahsieah Posts: 565Registered Users
    Because the idea of balance only exists in Multiplayer and noone plays that (well, yes, you do, and you, all of you 5 guys, thank you).
  • SultschiemSultschiem Posts: 1,660Registered Users
    Simple: Because its Warhammer, which is imbalanced in itself already.

    Look at the Greenskins and compare their roster to lets say Bretonnia.

    Look how much stuff Greenskins have there and how much Bretonnia.
  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Posts: 1,834Registered Users

    Simple: Because its Warhammer, which is imbalanced in itself already.

    Look at the Greenskins and compare their roster to lets say Bretonnia.

    Look how much stuff Greenskins have there and how much Bretonnia.

    Ermmm bret destroy greenskins with utter ease.... questing knight spam can kill everything greenskins have they literally have no counter
  • AvadonAvadon Posts: 1,543Registered Users

    Simple: Because its Warhammer, which is imbalanced in itself already.

    Look at the Greenskins and compare their roster to lets say Bretonnia.

    Look how much stuff Greenskins have there and how much Bretonnia.


    And yet...CA still try to balance it all...well...that is if you can call it "balance".


    I guess that is how it works with mortals...one problem after another...in an endless cycle...until your time...runs out... >:)

  • yx3768031yx3768031 Posts: 156Registered Users
    Because the real world is not balanced at all.
    Can you say Gulf War a balanced warfare?

    Then why it's neccesary for a fantasy game to be balanced?
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,221Registered Users
    Enforest said:

    I like how is everyone attacking OP just because of the Allariele meme, while he hasn't even mentioned anything regarding WE and is in fact 100% correct: there are glaring issues with quality and quantity gaps betwen both core and DLC factions since game 1, I don't even have to name them because it is obvious.

    I'd like to basically repeat after @DolorousEdd and say that we're on the way of more reworked factions, since Dwarven update seems very good and promising. Hopefully, Empire and Greenskins get updated skill and tech trees, fixed holes in the roster (GS mainly) and more starting positions. Later, WoC and Beastmen get roster expansions, along with WE more LLs.

    That's my wishlist for game 2-3 post-launch support.

    They dont even own Warhammer 2. Hardly who I'd be getting into the corner with to discuss balancing dilemmas.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • EnforestEnforest Posts: 2,087Registered Users

    Enforest said:

    I like how is everyone attacking OP just because of the Allariele meme, while he hasn't even mentioned anything regarding WE and is in fact 100% correct: there are glaring issues with quality and quantity gaps betwen both core and DLC factions since game 1, I don't even have to name them because it is obvious.

    I'd like to basically repeat after @DolorousEdd and say that we're on the way of more reworked factions, since Dwarven update seems very good and promising. Hopefully, Empire and Greenskins get updated skill and tech trees, fixed holes in the roster (GS mainly) and more starting positions. Later, WoC and Beastmen get roster expansions, along with WE more LLs.

    That's my wishlist for game 2-3 post-launch support.

    They dont even own Warhammer 2. Hardly who I'd be getting into the corner with to discuss balancing dilemmas.
    Well, I didn't know about that until now... Still, that doesn't invalidate the initial message of the OP.


    Demand more love for Empire, Greenskins and Beastmen! Playable Middenland with Cult of Ulric! Expanded Beastmen roster with Ghorgon and Jabberslythe! Bring back Black Orcs variants and Orc Big Boss heroes!
  • yx3768031yx3768031 Posts: 156Registered Users
    edited May 2018
    Quote removed.

    Fun has nothing to do with balance.
    For example, World of Warcraft has most fun at
    60 level era, when it's least balanced
    Post edited by dge1 on
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,221Registered Users
    edited May 2018
    Quote removed.

    Games don't need to be balanced but they need to be fair. Real life doesn't.

    Posts containing derogatory and off topic remarks removed.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • Wargol5Wargol5 Posts: 1,291Registered Users
    Hey, even before Total War Warhammer, some factions received unfair treatment ! :lol:

    That's was always like that. Even in Age of Sigmar, some factions will be left to rot as time passes.
  • uriakuriak Posts: 3,421Registered Users
    edited May 2018
    Because simply put, not all races have a design and a background worthy as equal attention, or opening as much possibilities, and TW:WH is a work in progress with far less rigidity than imagined.

    And I'd dare say because point counting is pointless. Let's take two baddies as example

    - beastmen, for all their woes are still quite accurately represented in game. They are after all mutated animals that hide in the wild parts of the world and attack civilization. Their campaign mechanics and roster reflect this approach. They don't have as much variety, but you could say that of dwarfs, who for reasons of lore don't have any cavalry nor magicians, or even, say spear units. That's quite a extreme approach, when you think about it.

    - Skaven, clearly have fanned the fires of imagination in GW. 4 large clans, wild science and endless possibilities. Elite fighters, mutans/biological horroros, crazy machines and pestilance themed, + some magician and daemonic elements. Supposed to live underneath many other races settlements. For all they new mechanics and roster in the game this doesn't translate as much the experience as some other more "straightforward" factions could.

    What I mean, if even if in absolute terms, some factions have more "goodies", the whole faction experience may not be as well represented in game at all. As another example, take WE and HE : with Allarielle, you may cry foul because some forest spirits units are available to HE. But in game the WE can do already more than the lore allowed them, whereas you can wonder what happened to the supposedly naval superpower of the HE, or some would say they super magical dominance (archmages and stuff)

    I would say even if it's instinctive, there is no need to be as tribal with factions within TW as people were with the TT. With the expensive cost and time investment for a TT army, you bet you'd better be quite fond and protective of your army. Whereas something in a video game... I'd say the most constructive thing you can do if you really really want to make a specific faction shine is modding or help modders to gill in the gaps and add new mechanics.
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,919Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Posts containing derogatory and off topic remarks removed.
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • The_baronThe_baron Posts: 529Registered Users

    It is whimsical and poorly thought out decision-making, mixed with lack of care for the fact that most of their customers enjoy some factions over others, as well as a tendency to double down on bad decisions.

    Even their DLC is unbalanced -

    • One side gets a dragon riding mage lord with 5 variants, new magic cavalry, a whip-wielding gladiator unit, a monster RoR, and new flying cavalry RoR unlike any other unit in their roster, and some "surprise addition" post launch.
    • The other side gets a hybrid archer hero, a hybrid archer unit, a stealth hybrid archer unit, RoRs that are slight modifications of existing foot units, and apparently no additions post-launch.
    They originally planned to launch the Lizardman FLC lord along with this DLC, which was a very good move. All faction would have had something new on 31st may. But they figured HE fans would be unhappy about getting shafted in the DLC. Instead of adding more content in the DLC for the HE, they doubled down on the bad decisions and pushed up the HE FLC lord instead.
    Well said @mitthrawnuruodo ! it really bothers me sometimes times how RoR units can be so disappointing for some factions. Both of the factions I love HE and Bretonnian have no top tier RoR units ...

    @DolorousEdd Yep you could successfully snowball with anyone ! that means balance isn't it ? when you equip one faction with a human mind that can do so much more than any of the basic AI the game has in place XD.

    If you copy pasted a generic Rome II faction has no special faction gimiks such as Rites and and slaves and events you could still snowball the entire campaign in WH ...
Sign In or Register to comment.