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So how do you guys imagine Naval battles working?

EimhosanEimhosan Registered Users Posts: 360
Title.

I Imagine It working in a similar way to how chokepoints maps work.

So you have say..... a high elf ship on one end and a dark elf ship on the other. Each ship has two boarding bridges connecting to eachother, one with a HE design and one ith a DE design and each ship has a capture point similar to siege maps. If you manage to hold down your opponents point. Your army captures it and you win.

This is win by raiding. It gives you more gold and replenishment after combat. It also disables the losing stack's replenishment and hinders thier movement speed until they can get to a port that they own. Ive always felt that there was little to no incentive to actually hold down a point in siege maps rather than just murder the enemy like in normal maps

Now The ships themselves can be fought on and loaded with cannons and artillary to fire at eachother. While all the ships, regardless of faction, have the same default damage via normal ship cannons which work like siege towers. (put a unit in a square and you gain control.) Any artillary can be used to do extra damage and tip the scale. Of course, your enemy can walk across the bridge and destroy said artillary if you don't guard it. If your ship runs out of health it sinks and your crew dies.

This is win by sinking. It doesn't give you any bonuses, but it does wipe the enemy stack off the map since they don't have a ship anymore.

and then there is the traditional way of destroying the enemy/causing them to route. Which gives a small leadership buff for a few turns.


The name of the game here would be trying to either blow away your opponent with superior firepower, or to push through on the bridges and capture.

Anyways what do you guys think? and what are your ideas for naval combat?
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Comments

  • GettoGeckoGettoGecko Registered Users Posts: 1,415
    :sleepy: Not again. My idea is to skip it entirely.
  • UagrimUagrim Registered Users Posts: 1,935
    just make it a land battle on a fitting map and I would be happy, no reason to go with cracy game machanics that don't work.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 5,224
    with ships and some water.
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 6,781

    :sleepy: Not again. My idea is to skip it entirely.

    Anything is better than the sheer unadulterated arse that is autoresolve.

    Your generals playing that "Rock, paper, scissors" game they had in Alex Kidd in Miracle World would be preferable, even down to that highly dubious hand movement they made for the "1,2,3..".

    I don't understand "All Total War naval combat has been pants therefore we shouldn't have it at all" argument". It is possible to do decent naval combat, it's just CA haven't bothered trying.
    For in spite of all temptations. To belong to other nations. He remains an Englishman.
  • CirdanCirdan Registered Users Posts: 806
    Arsenic said:

    :sleepy: Not again. My idea is to skip it entirely.

    Anything is better than the sheer unadulterated arse that is autoresolve.

    Your generals playing that "Rock, paper, scissors" game they had in Alex Kidd in Miracle World would be preferable, even down to that highly dubious hand movement they made for the "1,2,3..".

    I don't understand "All Total War naval combat has been pants therefore we shouldn't have it at all" argument". It is possible to do decent naval combat, it's just CA haven't bothered trying.
    Considering how many new models, maps and battle mechanics that would had to be done my bet is that it would cost not a small amount of charlemanges. Also they would have to figure out how flying units, magic and lords would interact with the ships. I don't think it's about "bothering" something, rather time and money, budgeting. If naval combat would had been implemented we would probably get less of other content.
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 6,781
    Cirdan said:



    Considering how many new models, maps and battle mechanics that would had to be done my bet is that it would cost not a small amount of charlemanges. Also they would have to figure out how flying units, magic and lords would interact with the ships. I don't think it's about "bothering" something, rather time and money, budgeting. If naval combat would had been implemented we would probably get less of other content.

    That's a reasonable enough point, the mind does boggle imagining some of those units interacting with naval combat a bit, but the "convenient island" idea hand-waves all that, and would be better than AR.
    For in spite of all temptations. To belong to other nations. He remains an Englishman.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 11,188
    Arsenic said:

    :sleepy: Not again. My idea is to skip it entirely.

    Anything is better than the sheer unadulterated arse that is autoresolve.

    Your generals playing that "Rock, paper, scissors" game they had in Alex Kidd in Miracle World would be preferable, even down to that highly dubious hand movement they made for the "1,2,3..".

    I don't understand "All Total War naval combat has been pants therefore we shouldn't have it at all" argument". It is possible to do decent naval combat, it's just CA haven't bothered trying.
    This. A million times this.

    It is disgusting that it is autoresolve only.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 11,188
    Uagrim said:

    just make it a land battle on a fitting map and I would be happy, no reason to go with cracy game machanics that don't work.

    Yeah this would be good.

    Autoresolve only is unacceptable.
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 16,513
    I'd rather they have the autoresolve from Rome2, where having certain types of units can up your chances in autoresolve.

    Spawning islands because you engage a fleet in the middle of the ocean makes little sense. There's better than nothing, and there's better than nothing by like one notch and more appropriately called barely more.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • The_baronThe_baron Registered Users Posts: 652
    @GettoGecko your idea is soo great .... NOT ! XD

    leave this thread to people with some imagination , don't worry you could auto resolve all battles as you do now even if Sea warfare will be implemented.
  • RodentofDoomRodentofDoom Registered Users Posts: 588

    with ships and some water.

    Yup ..

    It's not like it's something they've never done in any previous TW titles.

  • GrimblueGrimblue Registered Users Posts: 898
    Half the size of a normal total war battle map and with two ship texture. No vanguard but you're starting close together to start. Straight up brawl where cav will be pretty useless.
  • EnforestEnforest Registered Users Posts: 2,312
    I would just like a battle on a small island to be honest. I hate being forces to do broken auto-resolve.


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  • Erwin99Erwin99 Registered Users Posts: 185
    Something along the lines of Shogun 2's naval combat, I'd imagine. It had the best naval fights in the series imo.
  • BaronRodneyBaronRodney Registered Users Posts: 1,075
    I'm all for naval battles, I loved them in Empire. But how can people honestly be suggesting that all naval battles be resolved ala Heroes of Might and Magic where we play a pitched battle only..on the desk of two ships side by side? What a truly immersion breaking idea. How would that even work? Imagine a ship in the real world where you could line up 6 units of 120 men side by side, let alone in the warhammer world where half the ships are sailing boats and the other half are just driftwood tied together...or a narwhal.

    Having two navies meet and then the armies fight the battle on board their boats is madness to me. Similarly stopping and fighting on a nearby island. It just doesn't make sense.

    We're not going to get fully 3D ship battles like Empire, I understand that, but at least give us ships to recruit from docks. You would have to choose whether you wanted to build a shipwright instead of a trading port, etc. Then recruit and pay upkeep on a fleet. You could then make all naval combat autoresolve based on the strength of the navies not the armies. Surely that's the optimum compromise?
  • HeinzuHeinzu Registered Users Posts: 938
    They could at least make Black Ark battle map. That thing is huge enough for battles. This would solve a lot of problems.
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 7,311

    I'm all for naval battles, I loved them in Empire. But how can people honestly be suggesting that all naval battles be resolved ala Heroes of Might and Magic where we play a pitched battle only..on the desk of two ships side by side? What a truly immersion breaking idea. How would that even work? Imagine a ship in the real world where you could line up 6 units of 120 men side by side, let alone in the warhammer world where half the ships are sailing boats and the other half are just driftwood tied together...or a narwhal.

    Having two navies meet and then the armies fight the battle on board their boats is madness to me. Similarly stopping and fighting on a nearby island. It just doesn't make sense.

    We're not going to get fully 3D ship battles like Empire, I understand that, but at least give us ships to recruit from docks. You would have to choose whether you wanted to build a shipwright instead of a trading port, etc. Then recruit and pay upkeep on a fleet. You could then make all naval combat autoresolve based on the strength of the navies not the armies. Surely that's the optimum compromise?

    This. An extremely simple system of naval cards recruitment + some general strategy selection buttons in autoresolve combat would be so much better than what we have now. I mean, the first XCOM managed to do it for air combat in 1994, it's not rocket science.
  • ReeksReeks Registered Users Posts: 8,127
    I can´t express how bad i find the "AR only" deal we have now, ANYTHING would be a improvement to this tbh, i even prefer nothing at all compared to that.



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  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 7,311
    Reeks said:

    I can´t express how bad i find the "AR only" deal we have now, ANYTHING would be a improvement to this tbh, i even prefer nothing at all compared to that.

    I really don't understand why CA doesn't address this. They could make literally just one naval unit card, modders would fill the rest of the factions in a week.
  • PilthoidPilthoid Registered Users Posts: 287
    Personally I'd skip it. Make the rest of the game perfect before going there. I don't want or need another place for the Devs to worry about until everything else is where it needs to be. Can't imagine I'm alone in that.
  • TennisgolfbollTennisgolfboll Registered Users Posts: 11,188
    We sail to a treasure in the middle of an ocean and get a text about how it is an island full of zombies, temples with skaven coming up from the ground etc etc etc

    Just make it an island battle. And a black ark map
    It needs to be pointed out that what people call "cheese" is just playing the game the way it actually exists not in some fictional way they think it is supposed to work.
  • BaronRodneyBaronRodney Registered Users Posts: 1,075
    hanesdav said:

    They could at least make Black Ark battle map. That thing is huge enough for battles. This would solve a lot of problems.

    Couldn’t agree more. Black Arks being a siege battle that attackers can’t bring deuce equipment to -like Ulthuan Gates- should have been in at launch. It would only have been one battle map to add.
  • SaurianDruidSaurianDruid Registered Users Posts: 1,602

    We're not going to get fully 3D ship battles like Empire, I understand that, but at least give us ships to recruit from docks. You would have to choose whether you wanted to build a shipwright instead of a trading port, etc. Then recruit and pay upkeep on a fleet. You could then make all naval combat autoresolve based on the strength of the navies not the armies. Surely that's the optimum compromise?

    This is the most sensible and economic solution and I can't believe CA didn't just... DO this. It worked fine in all the old titles before ship combat was added in. All you need is say, three unit cards with some basic stats for each faction to represent different types of ships.

    Suddenly the sea is a lot more engaging. Auto resolve is fine because now we have SOME input into how our sea battles will be calculated. The more we invest in a navy the better we are at ensuring our armies can cross the water safely.

    It also opens up more strategic options like using your navy to blockade ports to hurt the enemy's economy and shut down their ship production. Maybe perform bombardments to damage port city walls so your land army can get in easier.

    They could add visible trade lines in the seas and let you park a fleet on one and use a piracy action to steal the income from that trade line for yourself, suffering a diplomatic hit from the factions you're stealing from because of it. Dark elf players would especially enjoy a mechanic like this because suddenly they can actually play out their race's pirate culture.

    Naval exploration would be easier. You could send out some cheap ships to scout out the coasts and find new trade partners or hunt down the sea treasures without committing an army to it.

    If they wanted to get real fancy they could add admiral characters that can gain experience and get bonuses to their naval auto resolve chances or ship speed, giving you an incentive to try and keep your fleets alive long enough to get a good admiral out of it. Dark Elf Fleetmasters could even get bonuses to piracy to encourage that sort of naval playstyle from them. Maybe in addition to the standard loot they also get slaves from raiding sea routes.

    There is a lot you could do with this mechanic, and it's comparatively pretty cheap to produce. Don't even need to invest in new battlemaps.
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