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Wood elf, High elf and Dark elf Confederation...

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  • NemotheelfNemotheelf Registered Users Posts: 842

    Nothing short of a world-ending apocalypse would cause the Elves to even consider uniting, and chances are the Dark Elves would've had some hand in it.

    The High and Wood Elves might unite since they do share some common beliefs and practices, but that's about it.

    WE and DE are as close to WE and HE before ET.WE really don't care for any of them
    WE and HE share the worship of Kurnous and Isha, having an queen that's an avatar of the latter, and a general concern for the world. They're both decidedly Orderly factions that want to see the world endure, and most of their issues go back to the War of the Beard and cultural outlook.

    The Dark Elves in the meantime are responsible for killing Ariel's sister and partially for Ariel's eventual corruption. They also are responsible for the Wood Elves' feud with the High Elves to begin with since the War of the Beard was their creation. If the Dark Elves were to end up on top, it would mean the end for both Ulthuan and Athel Loren. The High Elves at worst just want the Phoenix King and Everqueen to be recognized as the "higher" authority.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 2,583

    Nothing short of a world-ending apocalypse would cause the Elves to even consider uniting, and chances are the Dark Elves would've had some hand in it.

    The High and Wood Elves might unite since they do share some common beliefs and practices, but that's about it.

    WE and DE are as close to WE and HE before ET.WE really don't care for any of them
    WE and HE share the worship of Kurnous and Isha, having an queen that's an avatar of the latter, and a general concern for the world. They're both decidedly Orderly factions that want to see the world endure, and most of their issues go back to the War of the Beard and cultural outlook.

    The Dark Elves in the meantime are responsible for killing Ariel's sister and partially for Ariel's eventual corruption. They also are responsible for the Wood Elves' feud with the High Elves to begin with since the War of the Beard was their creation. If the Dark Elves were to end up on top, it would mean the end for both Ulthuan and Athel Loren. The High Elves at worst just want the Phoenix King and Everqueen to be recognized as the "higher" authority.
    WE are created at the end of the war of vengance and are a merge from brainwashed by the forest HEs and DEs.Kurnous is not really that important for the HE.WE use Dark and High magic.Till the ET they don't really have better relation with any of the other elf factions.The really don't care about the conflict b/e HE and DE.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,884

    Nothing short of a world-ending apocalypse would cause the Elves to even consider uniting, and chances are the Dark Elves would've had some hand in it.

    The High and Wood Elves might unite since they do share some common beliefs and practices, but that's about it.

    WE and DE are as close to WE and HE before ET.WE really don't care for any of them
    WE and HE share the worship of Kurnous and Isha, having an queen that's an avatar of the latter, and a general concern for the world. They're both decidedly Orderly factions that want to see the world endure, and most of their issues go back to the War of the Beard and cultural outlook.

    The Dark Elves in the meantime are responsible for killing Ariel's sister and partially for Ariel's eventual corruption. They also are responsible for the Wood Elves' feud with the High Elves to begin with since the War of the Beard was their creation. If the Dark Elves were to end up on top, it would mean the end for both Ulthuan and Athel Loren. The High Elves at worst just want the Phoenix King and Everqueen to be recognized as the "higher" authority.
    WE are created at the end of the war of vengance and are a merge from brainwashed by the forest HEs and DEs.Kurnous is not really that important for the HE.WE use Dark and High magic.Till the ET they don't really have better relation with any of the other elf factions.The really don't care about the conflict b/e HE and DE.
    The Wood Elves are mostly ex-High Elves. There are indications that some ex-Dark Elves have made it there since (it's probably the best option to get away from Naggaroth if you're a Dark Elf that wants to defect) but the settlements in Elthin Arvan were all High Elves, and thus the former settlers that became the first Asrai were High Elves. Any Dark Elves that wandered in afterwards are a small minority (note: there is a rumour that the Sisters of the Thorn are Sorceresses that defected).

    The Wood Elves are wilder and 'darker' than the High Elves, but that's mostly the influence of the forest, and Ariel being silly enough to let Morathi corrupt her with Dark Magic.

    Kurnuous may be less important for the High Elves, but he's still on the inner ring of the High Elven Panthoenic Mandela (in fourth place, what's more, behind Asuryan, Vaul, and Isha), while the Dark Elves place him on the outer ring.

    More broadly speaking, the High Elves and the Wood Elves have four gods in common in the inner ring (Isha, Kurnuous, Loec, and Lileath). The Dark Elves have only one in common with the Wood Elves in the inner ring (Hekarti) and, unsurprisingly, none in common with the High Elves.

    (Unless you count Ladrielle as Lileath.)

    So, from a religious perspective, the Asur and Asrai do have more in common than either have with the Druchii.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 2,583
    edited November 2017
    Draxynnic said:

    Nothing short of a world-ending apocalypse would cause the Elves to even consider uniting, and chances are the Dark Elves would've had some hand in it.

    The High and Wood Elves might unite since they do share some common beliefs and practices, but that's about it.

    WE and DE are as close to WE and HE before ET.WE really don't care for any of them
    WE and HE share the worship of Kurnous and Isha, having an queen that's an avatar of the latter, and a general concern for the world. They're both decidedly Orderly factions that want to see the world endure, and most of their issues go back to the War of the Beard and cultural outlook.

    The Dark Elves in the meantime are responsible for killing Ariel's sister and partially for Ariel's eventual corruption. They also are responsible for the Wood Elves' feud with the High Elves to begin with since the War of the Beard was their creation. If the Dark Elves were to end up on top, it would mean the end for both Ulthuan and Athel Loren. The High Elves at worst just want the Phoenix King and Everqueen to be recognized as the "higher" authority.
    WE are created at the end of the war of vengance and are a merge from brainwashed by the forest HEs and DEs.Kurnous is not really that important for the HE.WE use Dark and High magic.Till the ET they don't really have better relation with any of the other elf factions.The really don't care about the conflict b/e HE and DE.
    The Wood Elves are mostly ex-High Elves. There are indications that some ex-Dark Elves have made it there since (it's probably the best option to get away from Naggaroth if you're a Dark Elf that wants to defect) but the settlements in Elthin Arvan were all High Elves, and thus the former settlers that became the first Asrai were High Elves. Any Dark Elves that wandered in afterwards are a small minority (note: there is a rumour that the Sisters of the Thorn are Sorceresses that defected).

    The Wood Elves are wilder and 'darker' than the High Elves, but that's mostly the influence of the forest, and Ariel being silly enough to let Morathi corrupt her with Dark Magic.

    Kurnuous may be less important for the High Elves, but he's still on the inner ring of the High Elven Panthoenic Mandela (in fourth place, what's more, behind Asuryan, Vaul, and Isha), while the Dark Elves place him on the outer ring.

    More broadly speaking, the High Elves and the Wood Elves have four gods in common in the inner ring (Isha, Kurnuous, Loec, and Lileath). The Dark Elves have only one in common with the Wood Elves in the inner ring (Hekarti) and, unsurprisingly, none in common with the High Elves.

    (Unless you count Ladrielle as Lileath.)

    So, from a religious perspective, the Asur and Asrai do have more in common than either have with the Druchii.
    The also have The Ancients as the second most important deities in their Mandala which ain't present in any of the elven races.
    Every Wood Elf holds Kumous and Isha above all other beings, but beyond that they make little distinction between the Gods of the Heavens and
    the Gods of the Underworld. Instead, they worship according to the calling of their own natures, embracing the wildness ofKhaine as readily as the compassion ofLileath

    Anyways my point was more about how they view the other elves not their religion.

    Perhaps the only commonality between the Dark Elves and
    H igh Elves, besides their shared ancestry, is the mix of pity
    and annoyance with which the Wood Elves regard them
    both. Despite efforts to the contrary, the folk of Ulthuan and
    Naggaroth are fading from the world. The Wood Elves, by
    contrast, neither grow nor dwindle, but are as timeless as the
    forest in which they dwell. Long ago, at the very beginning
    of Elven history, a pact was forged between the spirits of the
    wood and the Elves over the sea. Now, shaped by that accord,
    the Wood Elves stand at once on the cusp of greatness and
    on the brink of extinction, living in anticipation of that day
    on which Athel Loren will burst its bounds and reclaim lost
    lands, or be overwhelmed by the malice of outsiders
    Post edited by HisShadowBG on
  • Wargol5Wargol5 Registered Users Posts: 1,306

    Nothing short of a world-ending apocalypse would cause the Elves to even consider uniting, and chances are the Dark Elves would've had some hand in it.

    The High and Wood Elves might unite since they do share some common beliefs and practices, but that's about it.

    WE and DE are as close to WE and HE before ET.WE really don't care for any of them
    No, Wood Elves are closer to the High Elves since they're both part of the Order factions.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 2,583
    edited November 2017
    Wargol5 said:

    Nothing short of a world-ending apocalypse would cause the Elves to even consider uniting, and chances are the Dark Elves would've had some hand in it.

    The High and Wood Elves might unite since they do share some common beliefs and practices, but that's about it.

    WE and DE are as close to WE and HE before ET.WE really don't care for any of them
    No, Wood Elves are closer to the High Elves since they're both part of the Order factions.
    Being order or destruction faction has no bearing onn how WE view the other elves
  • Wargol5Wargol5 Registered Users Posts: 1,306
    edited November 2017

    Wargol5 said:

    Nothing short of a world-ending apocalypse would cause the Elves to even consider uniting, and chances are the Dark Elves would've had some hand in it.

    The High and Wood Elves might unite since they do share some common beliefs and practices, but that's about it.

    WE and DE are as close to WE and HE before ET.WE really don't care for any of them
    No, Wood Elves are closer to the High Elves since they're both part of the Order factions.
    Being order or destruction faction has no baring on how WE view the other elves
    Wrong again. The very fact that Wood Elves and High Elves are both in the Order means that they are much more able to cooperate with each other against a common ennemy while both of them will cooperate with Dark Elves only in the most dire of circumstances.

    Wood Elves and High Elves can eventually trust each other, but they won't trust Dark Elves.
    Even in the tabletop game, an alliance High Elves/Wood Elves is subject to the "Trusted Allies" rules, which give them some bonus in fight.
    Dark Elves allied with Wood Elves or High Elves are subject to the "Desperate Allies" rules and "Fragiles Alliances" rules on top of that, because they're close to nobody. Dark Elves are not even close to each other.
  • Wargol5Wargol5 Registered Users Posts: 1,306
    edited November 2017
    That anti-spam thing is ****
    Post edited by Wargol5 on
  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USARegistered Users, Moderators, Knights Posts: 19,655
    Wargol5 said:

    That anti-spam thing is ****

    Tell me about it!!!
    "The two most common things in the universe are Hydrogen and Stupidity." - Harlan Ellison
    "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." - Hubert H. Humphrey
    "Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.” - George Carlin
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 2,583
    Wargol5 said:

    That anti-spam thing is ****

    Wargol5 said:

    Nothing short of a world-ending apocalypse would cause the Elves to even consider uniting, and chances are the Dark Elves would've had some hand in it.

    The High and Wood Elves might unite since they do share some common beliefs and practices, but that's about it.

    WE and DE are as close to WE and HE before ET.WE really don't care for any of them
    No, Wood Elves are closer to the High Elves since they're both part of the Order factions.
    Being order or destruction faction has no bearing onn how WE view the other elves
    Wrong again, Wood Elves and High Elves are much more able to cooperate with each other against a common ennemy while both of them will cooperate with Dark Elves only in the most dire of circumstance.
    Wood Elves and High Elves don't trust Dark Elves.

    Even in the tabletop game, a Wood Elves/High Elves alliance is subject to the rule "Trusted Allies", which give them some bonus in fight.
    An alliance between Dark Elves and High Elves or Wood Elves is subject to the rules "Desperate Allies" and "Fragiles Alliances" on top of that.
    Dark Elves can't even trust their own kin.
    I have posted direct quote from WE armybook how they view basically in the same manner
    ...Perhaps the only commonality between the Dark Elves and High Elves, besides their shared ancestry, is the mix of pity and annoyance with which the Wood Elves regard them both...
    They are as likely to work with DE as HE that the DE might betray them at some point does not change that.



    The Wood Elves are mostly ex-High Elves. There are indications that some ex-Dark Elves have made it there since (it's probably the best option to get away from Naggaroth if you're a Dark Elf that wants to defect) but the settlements in Elthin Arvan were all High Elves, and thus the former settlers that became the first Asrai were High Elves. Any Dark Elves that wandered in afterwards are a small minority (note: there is a rumour that the Sisters of the Thorn are Sorceresses that defected).


    At least one of the DE assassins(their leader) responsible for the war of the beard became a WE 100%.And while most of them were Asur but there were also druchii among the first wood elves.Also they all got brainwashed so it really does not matter that much.

    Although nearly all of them were asur here and there the odd druchii stood among them - apparently without distinction


    Druchii and asur, we must all cut away what we have been.We must go beyond what we were and become what we must be.
  • TheCrimsonNightTheCrimsonNight Registered Users Posts: 72

    hanesdav said:

    Total War: Warhammer Trilogy is not set in End Times. It should be Storm of Chaos if I remember it correctly. This means that such confederation which happened in End Times doesn't exist in this era. Why should they do something which doesn't exist and may influence game balance?

    Can you link me the URL. I didn't know CA mention that
    You have been told this 234684324687354 times in this thread and you are just now getting this?

    Just to make sure, let me say this in all caps: END TIMES DO NOT APPLY TO THE TOTAL WAR GAMES. THIS IS A GOOD THING, BECAUSE THE END TIMES ARE POORLY WRITTEN HOGWASH THAT CRAPS OVER THE PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED LORE, IN A SIMILAR MANNER TO DISNEY STAR WARS. ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED ONLY IN END TIMES IS IRRELEVANT TO THESE GAMES.
    You say they won't include the end times but the aspect of end time is present on the game itself.

    Sorry but I won't accept your opinion if you don't have an evidence that CA did mention end times not being included
  • bayesbayes Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 426

    hanesdav said:

    Total War: Warhammer Trilogy is not set in End Times. It should be Storm of Chaos if I remember it correctly. This means that such confederation which happened in End Times doesn't exist in this era. Why should they do something which doesn't exist and may influence game balance?

    Can you link me the URL. I didn't know CA mention that
    You have been told this 234684324687354 times in this thread and you are just now getting this?

    Just to make sure, let me say this in all caps: END TIMES DO NOT APPLY TO THE TOTAL WAR GAMES. THIS IS A GOOD THING, BECAUSE THE END TIMES ARE POORLY WRITTEN HOGWASH THAT CRAPS OVER THE PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED LORE, IN A SIMILAR MANNER TO DISNEY STAR WARS. ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED ONLY IN END TIMES IS IRRELEVANT TO THESE GAMES.
    You say they won't include the end times but the aspect of end time is present on the game itself.

    Sorry but I won't accept your opinion if you don't have an evidence that CA did mention end times not being included
    Even if they wont include it, they havent said they either will or wont it still reveals aspects of the warhammer world that is 100% canon. Anything that was revealed about the past of the character, their motivations or aspects and possiblities of races is still going to be relevant.
  • IntertriarriiaeIntertriarriiae Registered Users Posts: 385
    I just think it's funny this discussion is still raging on.
    Just tossing in my 2 heresies every once in a while.
  • DraxynnicDraxynnic Registered Users Posts: 7,884
    Regarding both with 'pity and annoyance' says nothing about their choices of alliances. Asrai and Asur have made common cause a couple of times prior to the End Times, while the Asrai generally did not make common cause with the Druchii.

    Probably in part because they knew that while the Asur would like to bring them into the fold, they wouldn't press the issue, while the Druchii are treacherous bastards.

    Nevertheless, the very game rules stated that HE and WE could make common cause easily, while DE and WE could not.
  • blaatblaat Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 3,119

    hanesdav said:

    Total War: Warhammer Trilogy is not set in End Times. It should be Storm of Chaos if I remember it correctly. This means that such confederation which happened in End Times doesn't exist in this era. Why should they do something which doesn't exist and may influence game balance?

    Can you link me the URL. I didn't know CA mention that
    You have been told this 234684324687354 times in this thread and you are just now getting this?

    Just to make sure, let me say this in all caps: END TIMES DO NOT APPLY TO THE TOTAL WAR GAMES. THIS IS A GOOD THING, BECAUSE THE END TIMES ARE POORLY WRITTEN HOGWASH THAT CRAPS OVER THE PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED LORE, IN A SIMILAR MANNER TO DISNEY STAR WARS. ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED ONLY IN END TIMES IS IRRELEVANT TO THESE GAMES.
    You say they won't include the end times but the aspect of end time is present on the game itself.

    Sorry but I won't accept your opinion if you don't have an evidence that CA did mention end times not being included
    the source a non CA site is down ATM but will be running again ASAP
    https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/155046/tw-warhammer-information-from-ca-updated-4-june-15

    but there is your proof

    snip

    It's much easier and more fun to get engrossed in lore that takes itself seriously and tries to make sense within its own frame of reference.

    the reason I prefer LOTR over warhammer fantasy and 40k

    I am dutch so if you like to have a talk in dutch shoot me a PM :)
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 1,752

    hanesdav said:

    Total War: Warhammer Trilogy is not set in End Times. It should be Storm of Chaos if I remember it correctly. This means that such confederation which happened in End Times doesn't exist in this era. Why should they do something which doesn't exist and may influence game balance?

    Can you link me the URL. I didn't know CA mention that
    You have been told this 234684324687354 times in this thread and you are just now getting this?

    Just to make sure, let me say this in all caps: END TIMES DO NOT APPLY TO THE TOTAL WAR GAMES. THIS IS A GOOD THING, BECAUSE THE END TIMES ARE POORLY WRITTEN HOGWASH THAT CRAPS OVER THE PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED LORE, IN A SIMILAR MANNER TO DISNEY STAR WARS. ANYTHING THAT HAPPENED ONLY IN END TIMES IS IRRELEVANT TO THESE GAMES.
    You say they won't include the end times but the aspect of end time is present on the game itself.

    Sorry but I won't accept your opinion if you don't have an evidence that CA did mention end times not being included
    There is a difference between the End Times, the Chaos Event, the End Times (end of any World) and The End Times as executed by GW.

    Chaos End Times, historically, have been anything but.

    Each Everchosen is to bring about the End Times, and each Time (just like in our game here) they Fail.

    The End Times as executed by GW was a singular event, and a capstone on the setting.

    End Times are clearly implemented, as Archaon is in the game and is the Event of game 1/2 ME.

    The End Times, are not in this game, and all such developments are suspect as not being 'canon' for the context of this game.

    ------

    That said, I wish the Elves had a bit of racial affinity at least. I'm going to have to burn down the woods to get those WE dealt with, and it would be nice if I could just Confed them.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 11,808

    Nothing short of a world-ending apocalypse would cause the Elves to even consider uniting, and chances are the Dark Elves would've had some hand in it.

    The High and Wood Elves might unite since they do share some common beliefs and practices, but that's about it.

    WE and DE are as close to WE and HE before ET.WE really don't care for any of them
    WE and HE share the worship of Kurnous and Isha, having an queen that's an avatar of the latter, and a general concern for the world. They're both decidedly Orderly factions that want to see the world endure, and most of their issues go back to the War of the Beard and cultural outlook.

    The Dark Elves in the meantime are responsible for killing Ariel's sister and partially for Ariel's eventual corruption. They also are responsible for the Wood Elves' feud with the High Elves to begin with since the War of the Beard was their creation. If the Dark Elves were to end up on top, it would mean the end for both Ulthuan and Athel Loren. The High Elves at worst just want the Phoenix King and Everqueen to be recognized as the "higher" authority.
    And you can add to that, that Avelorn, the realm of the Everqueen is very similar to the realm of the Wood Elves, and that Finubar didn't had too much problem with visiting the Wood Elves.

    http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Avelorn
  • BrakierBrakier Registered Users Posts: 1,528

    That is like asking for the Empire to be able to confederate Bretonnia and Norsca, since they are also human factions.

    Not good.

    of all the factions i think empire and bretonnia are the onces that could pull it off, but norsca? ahahahahahhahah

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