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The Problematic Implementation of TEB

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  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Posts: 1,930Registered Users
    Shadd said:

    ben8vtedu said:

    There are so many colourful characters it would be a shame if CA gave us only 2 of them.

    Lietpold The Black
    Marco Colombo
    Lucrezzia Belladonna
    Asarnil Dragonlord: I know that's a stretch but it opens up so many possibilities regarding Climate, Diplomacy, unique buildings, special troops

    To this day I could never understand why people keep suggesting Marco Colombo over and over again, also Borgio is way more likely than Asarnil.
    They say it because they can't imagine anyone else taking over the NWC faction. If it's an itch that absolutely has to be scratched, I'd suggest combining the characters of Pirazzo and Colombo; basically give Pirazzo all of Colombo's special gear and attributes but keep his name. But the front runners for me are still Borgio, Lorenzo, Lucretia, and Lietpold.
    Isn't Port Reaver(NWC) a minor settlement in Hexoatl's starting province? AKA Mazdamundi early game fodder?

    Do any other major factions share the same province at the start?

    Vlad and Skarsnik are the only LL that don't start with a capitol settlement I can recall, but even they aren't splitting territory with another LL in the province.
    Khalida starts in Lybaras which is a four slot settlement too, but she doesn't really have to contest other Legendary Lords immediately either (though she will end up in conflict with Queek and Kroq-gar rather quickly).

    But yeah, The New World Colonies, are basically just cannonfodder for Mazdamundi, after he has gobbled up Skeggi.. If they are lucky he use them as a trade partner for a while, before he grows tired of them.
  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Alith anar has no capital.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,134Registered Users

    Shadd said:

    ben8vtedu said:

    There are so many colourful characters it would be a shame if CA gave us only 2 of them.

    Lietpold The Black
    Marco Colombo
    Lucrezzia Belladonna
    Asarnil Dragonlord: I know that's a stretch but it opens up so many possibilities regarding Climate, Diplomacy, unique buildings, special troops

    To this day I could never understand why people keep suggesting Marco Colombo over and over again, also Borgio is way more likely than Asarnil.
    They say it because they can't imagine anyone else taking over the NWC faction. If it's an itch that absolutely has to be scratched, I'd suggest combining the characters of Pirazzo and Colombo; basically give Pirazzo all of Colombo's special gear and attributes but keep his name. But the front runners for me are still Borgio, Lorenzo, Lucretia, and Lietpold.
    Isn't Port Reaver(NWC) a minor settlement in Hexoatl's starting province? AKA Mazdamundi early game fodder?

    Do any other major factions share the same province at the start?

    Vlad and Skarsnik are the only LL that don't start with a capitol settlement I can recall, but even they aren't splitting territory with another LL in the province.
    Khalida starts in Lybaras which is a four slot settlement too, but she doesn't really have to contest other Legendary Lords immediately either (though she will end up in conflict with Queek and Kroq-gar rather quickly).

    But yeah, The New World Colonies, are basically just cannonfodder for Mazdamundi, after he has gobbled up Skeggi.. If they are lucky he use them as a trade partner for a while, before he grows tired of them.
    That's never been a problem for TW.

    Athens, Sparta, Epirus, Macedon and Illyria all border each other and are all playable. Oda and Tokugawa. etc
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Posts: 1,834Registered Users

    Shadd said:

    ben8vtedu said:

    There are so many colourful characters it would be a shame if CA gave us only 2 of them.

    Lietpold The Black
    Marco Colombo
    Lucrezzia Belladonna
    Asarnil Dragonlord: I know that's a stretch but it opens up so many possibilities regarding Climate, Diplomacy, unique buildings, special troops

    To this day I could never understand why people keep suggesting Marco Colombo over and over again, also Borgio is way more likely than Asarnil.
    They say it because they can't imagine anyone else taking over the NWC faction. If it's an itch that absolutely has to be scratched, I'd suggest combining the characters of Pirazzo and Colombo; basically give Pirazzo all of Colombo's special gear and attributes but keep his name. But the front runners for me are still Borgio, Lorenzo, Lucretia, and Lietpold.
    Isn't Port Reaver(NWC) a minor settlement in Hexoatl's starting province? AKA Mazdamundi early game fodder?

    Do any other major factions share the same province at the start?

    Vlad and Skarsnik are the only LL that don't start with a capitol settlement I can recall, but even they aren't splitting territory with another LL in the province.
    Khalida starts in Lybaras which is a four slot settlement too, but she doesn't really have to contest other Legendary Lords immediately either (though she will end up in conflict with Queek and Kroq-gar rather quickly).

    But yeah, The New World Colonies, are basically just cannonfodder for Mazdamundi, after he has gobbled up Skeggi.. If they are lucky he use them as a trade partner for a while, before he grows tired of them.
    That's never been a problem for TW.

    Athens, Sparta, Epirus, Macedon and Illyria all border each other and are all playable. Oda and Tokugawa. etc
    Yeah but they are all the same... if a major faction dies early on in my campaign it feels dead... i dont like big factions dying off early.

    This is an issue with alith anar... if he doesn't confed with tyrion hes gone forever... total waste of a lord he really does struggle at times
  • TayvarTayvar Posts: 10,591Registered Users

    ben8vtedu said:

    There are so many colourful characters it would be a shame if CA gave us only 2 of them.

    Lietpold The Black
    Marco Colombo
    Lucrezzia Belladonna
    Asarnil Dragonlord: I know that's a stretch but it opens up so many possibilities regarding Climate, Diplomacy, unique buildings, special troops

    To this day I could never understand why people keep suggesting Marco Colombo over and over again, also Borgio is way more likely than Asarnil.
    They say it because they can't imagine anyone else taking over the NWC faction. If it's an itch that absolutely has to be scratched, I'd suggest combining the characters of Pirazzo and Colombo; basically give Pirazzo all of Colombo's special gear and attributes but keep his name. But the front runners for me are still Borgio, Lorenzo, Lucretia, and Lietpold.
    It is mostly because of the flag for Pirazzo and because Pirazzo and Colombo operated in the same area of Lustria with the only difference being the time skip.
    And the fact that Marco Colombo is Long Dead, and so CA should know better than to add him.
  • ItharusItharus Senior Member Posts: 7,285Registered Users
    The problem here is that MORTAL EMPIRES is actually the Grand Campaign, and The Vortex is just a minicampaign that nobody cares about after you beat it once with each race pair (you don't even have to do both sides because it's the same).

    So my advice is to quit worrying about The Vortex and just release stuff for M.E.... it's what we all want, anyway.
  • psychoakpsychoak Posts: 2,378Registered Users
    Actually, some prefer to play the smaller campaign because it's a better balanced map, that runs better. It's not lopped off most of the new world and rather severely consensed several LL factions into a relatively small area.

    Having done both, HE games in ME are severely disappointing, in terms of DE resistance. To keep Malekith the sad, impotent threat that he is, I had to go to war with Mazdamundi and draw Tyrion into it, because even after Khatep met his demise early, they still never made any headway in the 3 way war. Disliking the Vortex race is really the only serious detraction, aside from the faction list.
  • SephlockSephlock Posts: 2,046Registered Users
    #JusticeForUshoran
    #JusticeForUshoran #RuneGolems #RuneGuardians #ShardDragons #Thunderbarges #Stormfiends #BigMonsters #MoreDakka
  • CaesarSahlertzCaesarSahlertz Posts: 1,930Registered Users

    Shadd said:

    ben8vtedu said:

    There are so many colourful characters it would be a shame if CA gave us only 2 of them.

    Lietpold The Black
    Marco Colombo
    Lucrezzia Belladonna
    Asarnil Dragonlord: I know that's a stretch but it opens up so many possibilities regarding Climate, Diplomacy, unique buildings, special troops

    To this day I could never understand why people keep suggesting Marco Colombo over and over again, also Borgio is way more likely than Asarnil.
    They say it because they can't imagine anyone else taking over the NWC faction. If it's an itch that absolutely has to be scratched, I'd suggest combining the characters of Pirazzo and Colombo; basically give Pirazzo all of Colombo's special gear and attributes but keep his name. But the front runners for me are still Borgio, Lorenzo, Lucretia, and Lietpold.
    Isn't Port Reaver(NWC) a minor settlement in Hexoatl's starting province? AKA Mazdamundi early game fodder?

    Do any other major factions share the same province at the start?

    Vlad and Skarsnik are the only LL that don't start with a capitol settlement I can recall, but even they aren't splitting territory with another LL in the province.
    Khalida starts in Lybaras which is a four slot settlement too, but she doesn't really have to contest other Legendary Lords immediately either (though she will end up in conflict with Queek and Kroq-gar rather quickly).

    But yeah, The New World Colonies, are basically just cannonfodder for Mazdamundi, after he has gobbled up Skeggi.. If they are lucky he use them as a trade partner for a while, before he grows tired of them.
    That's never been a problem for TW.

    Athens, Sparta, Epirus, Macedon and Illyria all border each other and are all playable. Oda and Tokugawa. etc
    Erhm... As far as I know, Oda did also have a tendency to die within the first 15 turns, followed by that ninja clan whose name escape me... In fact, Shogun had a major problem with the Great Clans dying off almost immediately... So why again is it that we want that for Warhammer?
  • Fear_The_WolfFear_The_Wolf Posts: 3,093Registered Users
    They could have Blue Moon and The New World Colonies switch spots. Give them that one/two provinces. Both LL would probably start in the same spot. Barring that it would be awesome if one of them started in Sartossa. That would give the High Elves some much needed competition, and give the DoW the opportunity to pick anywhere they want to go. Plus the idea of starting out on Pirate Island kicks ass.

    Also I doubt very highly that the DoW will be unique to ME. Not everyone prefers it. And it's content being released for Warhammer 2, in which the Vortex is front and center.

    Finally the emphasis for the Southern Realms should definitely be on the DoW as a mercenary faction, and much less on the factions themselves. Tilea, Estalia, and the Border Princes have accomplished exactly **** all in their entire existence. Their pike and shot/crossbow armies aren't powerful, with less tech, less training, and less experience than the Empire. So what you do is have the most basic elements of their faction be cheap and weak but somewhat comprehensive. No glaring holes in the line up but capable of accomplishing little.

    You can then make the DoW exceptional and bring out all their variety with 1 turn global recruitment. Yet cost an arm and a leg to maintain. Each time you go to a fight you would need to build in the army you think would work best. Going on a siege spree of the Dwarfs? How about recruiting Cannons from Nuln, Halfling Sniper Rifles, and Ogre Mercenaries with great weapons. Wood Elves being a problem? Dark Elf mercenary Corsairs, Kislev mercenary Winged Riders, and some Dwarf Adventurers will see you through the day. Reikland Greatsword Veteran mercenaries to push through when you just need that extra bump on the infantry line. Having a fluid and flexible army set up that relies on hiring and disbanding powerful yet prohibitively expensive mercenaries would make DoW quite unique.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Posts: 10,134Registered Users

    Shadd said:

    ben8vtedu said:

    There are so many colourful characters it would be a shame if CA gave us only 2 of them.

    Lietpold The Black
    Marco Colombo
    Lucrezzia Belladonna
    Asarnil Dragonlord: I know that's a stretch but it opens up so many possibilities regarding Climate, Diplomacy, unique buildings, special troops

    To this day I could never understand why people keep suggesting Marco Colombo over and over again, also Borgio is way more likely than Asarnil.
    They say it because they can't imagine anyone else taking over the NWC faction. If it's an itch that absolutely has to be scratched, I'd suggest combining the characters of Pirazzo and Colombo; basically give Pirazzo all of Colombo's special gear and attributes but keep his name. But the front runners for me are still Borgio, Lorenzo, Lucretia, and Lietpold.
    Isn't Port Reaver(NWC) a minor settlement in Hexoatl's starting province? AKA Mazdamundi early game fodder?

    Do any other major factions share the same province at the start?

    Vlad and Skarsnik are the only LL that don't start with a capitol settlement I can recall, but even they aren't splitting territory with another LL in the province.
    Khalida starts in Lybaras which is a four slot settlement too, but she doesn't really have to contest other Legendary Lords immediately either (though she will end up in conflict with Queek and Kroq-gar rather quickly).

    But yeah, The New World Colonies, are basically just cannonfodder for Mazdamundi, after he has gobbled up Skeggi.. If they are lucky he use them as a trade partner for a while, before he grows tired of them.
    That's never been a problem for TW.

    Athens, Sparta, Epirus, Macedon and Illyria all border each other and are all playable. Oda and Tokugawa. etc
    Erhm... As far as I know, Oda did also have a tendency to die within the first 15 turns, followed by that ninja clan whose name escape me... In fact, Shogun had a major problem with the Great Clans dying off almost immediately... So why again is it that we want that for Warhammer?
    I'm pointing out that CA has never cared about that in the past. And if a faction dies within 15 turns I don't really either.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Posts: 1,351Registered Users
    edited July 2018
    It might be unpopular to say, but TEB might be better off with just two or three LLs like Norsca and Wood Elves. The same can be said for Araby.

    The maps are getting very busy... maybe too busy to start cramming in LL start positions where they simply don't belong.

    My preferred option? 2LL starts... New World Colonies and Sartosa in Vortex. New World Colonies and Miragliano in ME.

    It works for Norsca. It works for Wood Elves. It works for me.


    Edit: Crazy thought here. Campaign pack combines Araby and TEB. 2LLs each. 2 start positions each. 2 varied rosters. It's how I would do it, honestly. However, I am a genius and a greenskin warboss of some repute.
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Posts: 3,225Registered Users

    It might be unpopular to say, but TEB might be better off with just two or three LLs like Norsca and Wood Elves. The same can be said for Araby.

    The maps are getting very busy... maybe too busy to start cramming in LL start positions where they simply don't belong.

    My preferred option? 2LL starts... New World Colonies and Sartosa in Vortex. New World Colonies and Miragliano in ME.

    It works for Norsca. It works for Wood Elves. It works for me.

    Well the way it sounds at the moment they're getting 4, so we just have to use our imagination as to how they're going to fit all of them onto the Vortex map. As far as too cramped, the Vortex campaign doesn't yet have as many LLs as WH1 did at the end of it's DLC cycle and the map has more settlements than WH1. The mainland of Lustria is still wide open for instance.

    Edit: Crazy thought here. Campaign pack combines Araby and TEB. 2LLs each. 2 start positions each. 2 varied rosters. It's how I would do it, honestly. However, I am a genius and a greenskin warboss of some repute.

    Not all that crazy since that suggestion's already been brought up in this very thread but it's just as unrealistic now as it was when the idea was first suggested months ago.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • Grom_the_PaunchGrom_the_Paunch Posts: 1,351Registered Users
    ben8vtedu said:

    It might be unpopular to say, but TEB might be better off with just two or three LLs like Norsca and Wood Elves. The same can be said for Araby.

    The maps are getting very busy... maybe too busy to start cramming in LL start positions where they simply don't belong.

    My preferred option? 2LL starts... New World Colonies and Sartosa in Vortex. New World Colonies and Miragliano in ME.

    It works for Norsca. It works for Wood Elves. It works for me.

    Well the way it sounds at the moment they're getting 4, so we just have to use our imagination as to how they're going to fit all of them onto the Vortex map. As far as too cramped, the Vortex campaign doesn't yet have as many LLs as WH1 did at the end of it's DLC cycle and the map has more settlements than WH1. The mainland of Lustria is still wide open for instance.

    Edit: Crazy thought here. Campaign pack combines Araby and TEB. 2LLs each. 2 start positions each. 2 varied rosters. It's how I would do it, honestly. However, I am a genius and a greenskin warboss of some repute.

    Not all that crazy since that suggestion's already been brought up in this very thread but it's just as unrealistic now as it was when the idea was first suggested months ago.
    Sure, but don't forget we still have 2 lizardmen, a skaven and a dark elf to come as a minimum. The gaps in lustria should fill at the very least. I do think ME in particular is going to be very crowded, although obviously nothing is stopping CA from making it even more so.

    Personally, I also don't really feel comfortable with LLs being in strange places lorewise. Khatep in Naggaroth? Really? I know he's an exile but Naggaroth? Skarsnik goes squig-hunting in the Grey Mountains? That's like me travelling from the UK to Switzerland just to get a pizza... and I love pizza. It works for the game I guess, so I glumly accept it.

    As for my "crazy" idea? Kudos @Selakah for beating me to it!
  • SetrusSetrus Senior Member SwedenPosts: 18,448Registered Users
    Sartosa, New world colonies, Araby and Vampire coast all exist in both maps. A campaign pack featuring them all competing in exploring, settling and plundering an expanded Lustria isn't too far-fetched. (not even araby with their corsairs)
    And while vampire Coast features zombies and vampires, one could argue that by using the warhammer chronicles army list for them, making them a somewhat gunpowder-heavy faction with lots that differ them from regular undead, they'd not count as pure VC.
    New world colonies would of course use the dogs of war army list, the Araby one could be inspired from Warmaster's roster and Sartosa coudl either us Dogs of War or be a little more creative, depending on what GW says.

    Not quite Tilea and Estalia, but the OP has a point about their implementation... :)
    Don't worry.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Posts: 3,148Registered Users
    The ME map isn't that busy. It is in certain areas. Some areas it's outright clotted, but then it still has others that are virtually hollow and could use someone else. Like the far southern worlds edge mountains. Basically got TK on the left, and lizards on the right. Dinking around with nobody for a lengthy while. A greenskin, or anyone zipping out of there would be nice. The entire TEB area is hollow from Estalia to eastern BP province. They can also always add a settlement. There were plenty that were cut or can be added like Sartosa.

    TEB/DoW alone would go a long ways to fill one of those very empty areas, especially if they slap the Skaven lord there to. Would turn into a properly feisty area.
  • hurricane501hurricane501 Senior Member Posts: 1,834Registered Users
    Itharus said:

    The problem here is that MORTAL EMPIRES is actually the Grand Campaign, and The Vortex is just a minicampaign that nobody cares about after you beat it once with each race pair (you don't even have to do both sides because it's the same).

    So my advice is to quit worrying about The Vortex and just release stuff for M.E.... it's what we all want, anyway.

    Wrong....the vortex map is far better gameplay than ME...

    ME new world factions bar tk queek and kroq have they most boring campaigns ever!!!! Nothing happens.

    Teclis basically fights to keep corruption under control for 100 turns...

    Vortex is the best campaign to date by miles each starting area has multiple paths to take well it had more until the last dlc which messed up a lot but its fast and you can have easy 3 full campaigns by the time you have 1 on ME due to end turn times...

    ME is an illusion of more content... you dont actually see most of the content. I mean dwarfs will never see he or de... maybe not even norsca. But they all add to the end turn times making playing dwarfs super tedious.
  • GollummypreciousGollummyprecious Posts: 396Registered Users

    Itharus said:

    The problem here is that MORTAL EMPIRES is actually the Grand Campaign, and The Vortex is just a minicampaign that nobody cares about after you beat it once with each race pair (you don't even have to do both sides because it's the same).

    So my advice is to quit worrying about The Vortex and just release stuff for M.E.... it's what we all want, anyway.

    Wrong....the vortex map is far better gameplay than ME...

    ME new world factions bar tk queek and kroq have they most boring campaigns ever!!!! Nothing happens.

    Teclis basically fights to keep corruption under control for 100 turns...

    Vortex is the best campaign to date by miles each starting area has multiple paths to take well it had more until the last dlc which messed up a lot but its fast and you can have easy 3 full campaigns by the time you have 1 on ME due to end turn times...

    ME is an illusion of more content... you dont actually see most of the content. I mean dwarfs will never see he or de... maybe not even norsca. But they all add to the end turn times making playing dwarfs super tedious.
    I have finished my dwarf campaign in ME conquering naggaroth, Uthuan and razing Norsca with KK (confederate Dwarfs earlier to have the stronghold). What were you saying? The limit to ME is actually your willingness to continue since its a sandbox campaign. The only downsides is that there is nothing very appealing to this campaign at a certain point of the game when you turn into a super power. Also there is a lack of landmarks and some custom objectives and less end turn time to keep it dynamic. But yeah Vortex is very fun but once Me will be completed (in 3-4 years maybe) and optimised it would be great, rn it is not finished, so ofc ME is inferior to the Vortex campaign
    Sanity is a curse, madness offers the only freedom...
  • AJH1987AJH1987 Posts: 110Registered Users
    I'm pretty confident the next installment will be TEB / New World Colonies / Dogs of war. I wonder how they'll brand them as a race, but i suspect you'll get them playable in the vortex and ME campaigns.

    There's plenty of lore there, and if given creative licence to a point, as they were with Norsca, I think they'll come up with something pretty good.
  • Some_ScribeSome_Scribe Posts: 1,320Registered Users
    Selakah said:

    They will handle it by making the Campaign Pack TEB + Araby, with two LLs for each.

    Two LLs for TEB easily fit in the Vortex, and there's space for two Araby LLs.

    I sincerely hope not. DoW and Araby both have enough lore and units (statted or otherwise) to be their own race packs. I'd much rather pay more for two fully fleshed-out races than two half-baked races.
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