Campaign AI

Jedidias1 · July 2018

I am on my 90th turn with my egyptian campaign (Normal difficult). I have to admit that the patch is great but the game has become so much easier with so many bonuses and little penalties. My public order is very high and never have been a problem at all. I have 69,134 money with an income of 10,381 every turn (only 3 armies full stack and 1 fleet, all of them medium tier). And I feel I can expand without almost any resistance by the AI. It seems that the biggest factions in my current game are willing to offer me 7,400 for peace (like Sparta did 3 turns before) instead of using this money to improve quality of their armies. They still use cheap units and the AI doesn´t seems to be able to dismiss cheap units to recruit better ones once they have the infrastructure for it, or recruit more armies. The AI doesn´t seem very assertive, and isn´t very challenging. I know it is normal difficulty! (And I noticed an improvement with the battle AI with the patch). But it seems I am playing in easy mode more than normal. I compare normal difficulty with Warhammer 1 and 2, and Shogun 2 and I feel like the campaign AI in those games has a better performance than Rome 2. I know the devs are working hard to improve this game, and this patch is really amazing! I just want to call the attention that the campaign and battle AI of Rome 2 needs more love!!
(I know it may not be in this update since you are running low on time. BUT "Other Possible Update" HAS TO HAPPEN PLEASE!!)
I don´t want to be all negative, so seriously guys you have been doing a great job, this is one of the best patches for Rome 2 I have seen so far!! And I am looking forward with expectations for the new DLC. I just want you to continue in the future supporting the game as today and work more with the AI.

P.D: I know there are different levels of difficulty for a more challenging game. But I feel that those are based on bonuses for the AI and debuff for the player rather than an smart AI. (Believe me I am not the only player who thinks like that).

Again thanks and keep up the good job.

happycompy · July 2018

Hey! Great post! I agree!

The problem of too easy is fixable by the following fixes, all but one of which are available via modding.

- Nerf resource buildings that grant p/o factionwide
- Nerf faction leader public order trait to local province instead of factionwide
- Nerf free public order gained by having high influence
- Copy over the public order difficulty bonuses from Attila
- Increase public order penalties from events like plagues, fires etc
- Add upkeep penalties per imperium
- Copy over AI aggression values from Warhammer or Attila
- Remove the autoresolve win chance % (not possible with mods unfortunately) that tells you with 100% accuracy if you will win or lose a battle.

All of these fixes (except the last one) are present in the Community Patch mod.

ShiroAmakusa75 · July 2018

happycompy said:

- Increase public order penalties from events like plagues, fires etc

The PO hit by plagues is already -10, which I think is more than sufficient. It's just that all those other bonuses pile up so quickly that this is almost never a factor.

huntermrg · July 2018

Great post! I also agree CAI of Rome 2 needs a serious patch, the game its to easy and fast pace.

Boicote · July 2018

happycompy said:

- Nerf faction leader public order trait to local province instead of factionwide

IMO the faction leader trait should be tied with his authority, cunning and zeal. For example, if a faction leader has low authority, the trait should give public orders penalties; if Authority is high, it should give public order in a local province; and if Authority is super-high it should give factionwide public order bonus.
This way, we should be more carefull when chosing our heirs.

MarcusIuniusBrutus · July 2018

But not an CAI improvement in Attila Style:

"Hurray! The player! Let throw all armies on him after we found him. No peace ever. Financially struggle all time."

There is a reason, why Attila is less sold and played.

Theres is nothing difficult on AI-Stack-Spam, its boring grindfest.

MarcusIuniusBrutus · July 2018

@Jedidias1: You still get boni on Normal.

Jedidias1 · July 2018

The point we all agree is that the AI still needs some work (It doesn't have to be like Attila, thats a different game with different characteristics).
I mean those details like for example when you find in your turn 89 of the campaign an seleucid army with 8 slingers, 11 oriental spearmen and 1 elephant (general). Then you find in diplomacy they have a medium economy and at least 2 barracks level 3.
(I will post a picture when I get home).
Then you understand the AI could still use some more work.

MarcusIuniusBrutus · July 2018

They have worked on army builds by patch notes.

And the seleucid armies i met the last two years didn´t consisted off 8 slingers and 11 spearmen. Thats a exaggeration.

ShiroAmakusa75 · July 2018

MarcusIuniusBrutus said:
They have worked on army builds by patch notes.

And the seleucid armies i met the last two years didn´t consisted off 8 slingers and 11 spearmen. Thats a exaggeration.

Eastern armies are still of inferior makeup compared to everyone else, because they have four dedicated recruitment buildings while Romans/Hellenics have only two and Barbarians have multipurpose buildings. That's why I have Seleucids, Armenians and Parthians die off quickly in most of my campaigns.

Jedidias1 · July 2018

MarcusIuniusBrutus said:
They have worked on army builds by patch notes.

And the seleucid armies i met the last two years didn´t consisted off 8 slingers and 11 spearmen. Thats a exaggeration.

I will post a picture late. I don't need to lie.

Boicote · July 2018

Ephraim_Dalton said:

MarcusIuniusBrutus said:
They have worked on army builds by patch notes.

And the seleucid armies i met the last two years didn´t consisted off 8 slingers and 11 spearmen. Thats a exaggeration.
Eastern armies are still of inferior makeup compared to everyone else, because they have four dedicated recruitment buildings while Romans/Hellenics have only two and Barbarians have multipurpose buildings. That's why I have Seleucids, Armenians and Parthians die off quickly in most of my campaigns.

One of the things that really bothers me in this game is when I see Galatia creating a huge empire in the Middle-East and the historical regional power (Seleucids, Pontus, Armenia...) are easily erased from the map.
The same happens with Macedon, which is always destroyed by the Greeks and the Balkan tribes.
And the same happens with Carthage, which is almost always conquered by Syracuse / numidians/ iberians.

I would prefer to see the historical powers creating huge empires, not small tribes or city-states.

Jedidias1 · July 2018

here is the picture (normal difficulty. turn 90. No mods)

and here you can check their barrack level 3

I take other of another army and it seems it has much better composition, but no many units.

and here is other of a Bactrian and a Pontus army that has some variety but still a lot of cheap units even if their have the 3 level barracks and a medium economy.

The AI needs the ability to dismiss units and recruit better ones once it has the resources and infrastructure to do it. And recruit more quality units more often.

MarcusIuniusBrutus · July 2018

Fine, you can post so much screenshots you want. It proves only, that in one campaign you played, the Seleucids build garbage. And i could patch back, try some campaigns and posts screens here, where Seleucids have good builds.

From 27. March 2016:

text

I am Egypt.

MarcusIuniusBrutus · July 2018

Jedidias1 said:

The AI needs the ability to dismiss units and recruit better ones once it has the resources and infrastructure to do it.

That would be useful. At least the AI now merge units. So it can build better troups faster.

ShiroAmakusa75 · July 2018

MarcusIuniusBrutus said:
Fine, you can post so much screenshots you want. It proves only, that in one campaign you played, the Seleucids build garbage. And i could patch back, try some campaigns and posts screens here, where Seleucids have good builds.

From 27. March 2016:

I am Egypt.

That's not a good build, it's all T1 units.

Jedidias1 · July 2018

"At least the AI now merge units. So it can build better troups faster."

I didn't know that. That's a step ahead!

Jedidias1 · July 2018

huntermrg · July 2018

CAI needs a lot off work AI dont recruit sufficient armies and quality ones also in diplomacy the AI needs to be smarter AI should make more alliances and trade to boost their economy this is the only way for the game to become interesting to play and to deliver some degree of challenge to the player.

Jedidias1 · July 2018

I already finished my current Egyptian campaign. I found 2 more bugs.

1- When I finished the campaign with Egypt I got the Status Quo steam Achievement: "As Rome or Carthage, choose not to establish an empire following a civil war."

2- It´s kind of weird so I will explain. Playing with Egypt when I declared war on Seleucids my satrapy Cyprus rebelled against me and one of this armies got ambush by Kush (another of my satrapies) near Alexandria, with my garrison army joining the battle as reinforcement. The problem was that when the Kush army deployed, It was deployed far away from the enemy and looking backward. I mean not looking toward the enemy. After that the battle developed in a normal way, The Kush army run to meet the enemy, but the momentum of the ambush was lost. I don´t remember seen that problem before. No Mods.
I would be good if someone can confirm it. (Sorry I didn´t take a picture to explain this time, it would have been really helpful).

I Also want to recall the attention about the AI recruitment process. I know in the Patch you said you improve the AI recruitment so it now recruit more suitable units in campaign. But like the pictures of this discussion in the 111 turns that my campaign long almost all of the big factions I met (Seleucids, Bactria, Pontus, Massilia, Athens, Spartha) used a lot of cheap units in their armies. I can confirm that those factions had barracks level 3 and they still had some good units per armies but usually more cheap units than good ones. (The problem is not the variety of units in every stack if not the quality of them), I thinks that´s the fact that make battles in GC so easy in Rome 2.
It would be great if in the future you could look more into it.

CA_Grimfeld · July 2018

Hey @Jedidias1 , thanks for the last two issues. The Status Quo achievement has been updated and is supposed to trigger if you complete a campaign without changing your government type. I'm not sure if the issue here is, for example, wrong localisation text, did you change your government type?

As for issue 2 - we are aware of it and aim to fix it. Currently there are a handful of issues related to ambush battles, among these the wrong facing and deployment.

The recruitment - currently the AI prefers sticking to its lower tier units. While I like to think that the AI is emotionally attached to them we'll try to persuade him otherwise ( :

Jedidias1 · July 2018

Hi

I only changed my government from kingdom to Empire once during my campaign. But I was playing with Egypt not Rome or Carthage.

Thanks for your answer! Hope you get to convince the AI.

RonBurgundy · July 2018

Oh man, if CA can get the AI to recruit T3 and T4 units, that would be one of the best updates they could make to this game

CA_Grimfeld · July 2018

The chief problem is that the AI does not disband outdated units. This is why you can see silver chevron hillmen.

The other reason to see them reaching this level is their fized shield animations ( :

Jedidias1 · July 2018

Yes I think teaching the AI to disband outdated units and recruit better ones is the missing key. (I don't know if it is easy or hard to implement) But is a key the game is in really need to find!

Hope you devs can get it done.

There are 2 small bugs I found (I don't know if they are reported or not)
1- in custom battles the cimerian nobles hoplites display a orange color instead of the faction color.
2- In the graphics setting panels there are missing words explaining some settings options. (Will post pictures when I get home)

RonBurgundy · July 2018

@CA_Grimfeld What if the AI was given the ability to upgrade its units? This ability would not be given to the player, of course

Argon · July 2018

RonBurgundy said:
Oh man, if CA can get the AI to recruit T3 and T4 units, that would be one of the best updates they could make to this game

And if that happens I vote for @CA_Grimfeld at the European elections

RonBurgundy · July 2018

CA_Grimfeld for President of the United States

lilsweetcaligula · July 2018

CA_Grimfeld said:
The recruitment - currently the AI prefers sticking to its lower tier units. While I like to think that the AI is emotionally attached to them we'll try to persuade him otherwise ( :

CA_Grimfeld, our Imperator!

RonBurgundy · July 2018

The lack of high tier units being recruited by the AI could be fixed by allotting more money towards armies and navies for the AI. More armies->more battles->more units being recruited.

Also, the AI could be made a bit more aggressive. Their priority for attacking all enemy forces and all enemy settlements is currently 0.1 while most other priorities are >1.0 in the task generator something something file (I forget).

Making the AI a tad more aggressive will also help the AI to recruit more high tier units.

@CA_Grimfeld Just some suggestions

Boicote · July 2018

CA_Grimfeld said:
The chief problem is that the AI does not disband outdated units. This is why you can see silver chevron hillmen.

The other reason to see them reaching this level is their fized shield animations ( :

I hope this will solve the disappointment that I have everytime I attack Knossos. I expect to fight powefull Cretan Archer (just like in Rome 1) but Knossos only bring to battle cheap units. They never bring Cretan Archer to battle because they are tier IV units.

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