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Criticism and Feedback

TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior MemberRegistered Users Posts: 34,001
So, after having played with the new patch for a while, I have the following suggestions to make:

1.It's still way, way too easy to get rich quick. You can pile up too many economic bonuses too quickly and by turn 50 I had basically infinite funds which turned the rest of the game trivial. There's simply too many money and economic bonuses thrown at the player from too many different sources. My suggestion is to reduce or remove monetary gains from something like farms, restrict commercial buildings and edicts to apply to inter-faction trade for the most part and to have less economic boosts from dominating the senate, which brings me to:

2.It's too easy to keep high influence. For that I blame the Other Nobles section of characters, where characters belonging to your party can randomly show up whereas other parties only gain new members if you recruit them which means you quickly outnumber your rivals and with that their influence as well. My suggestion is to either have statesmen randomly show up for rival parties too or to reduce the influence gain you get from Other Nobles.
Another thing is automatic influnce gain from high imperium levels is a holdover from older versions of the game where civil wars were triggered by having too much influence and should be removed for this reason since secessions and civil wars are now caused by other means

3.Tying into the infinite money criticism above, you can have so many armies so quickly that the AI is quickly cowed into leaving the player alone which means he can easily pick off targets one by one. The AI should definitely act more decisiviely against the player if he's being expansionistic. In my test campaign (Hard/Hard difficulty) as Macedon I used the join war feature to bypass defensive and military alliances, but no matter how badly I smashed a faction, their allies would not dare do anything against me. This is another factor that makes the game way too easy

Aside from that, the improvements brought by the Ancestral Update are great! If you could do something about the issues above the game would be a contender for best TW title ever.

Comments

  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    To illustrate my point:



    77 turns in, I have four fullstacks and two fleets and yet I'm raking in nearly 10000 worth of funds. I could easily create three fullstacks more. That's just way too much at this point in the game and I haven't even been as aggressive as I could have.

  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    A third thing, related to the money is that the amount of money you get from defeating an army is really small and requires the enemy army to be rather large to even get something at all.

    Considering that getting money through won battles require probably the most effort, this amount should be increased while making money purely through taxes should be reduced and I mean considerably reduced.
  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,354
    Agree with all points
    Team Mercia

    Team Picts

    Team WRE
  • MarcusIuniusBrutusMarcusIuniusBrutus Senior Member GermanyRegistered Users Posts: 1,739
    edited July 2018
    The problem is, would cutting the taxes not hit the AI to hard too?

    And i want a return, if i plan my economy.

    But 20000 seems a bit too good...

    And i think high influence should bring negative effects, for example corrruption.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001

    The problem is, would cutting the taxes not hit the AI to hard too?

    And i want a return, if i plan my economy.

    But 20000 seems a bit too good...

    And i think high influence should bring negative effects, for example corrruption.

    Back in the campaign when I just owned Macedon and Thrace, I already had few monetary problems and I didn't even have to upgrade my settlements all that much. The game's just way too generous with the funds.

    I think it would be a good idea to shift the monetary bonuses into the higher tiers of settlement development and make upgrading to this point more expensive at the same time.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    I must say there's also something seriously wrong with public order. In the campaign above I have an average of +15 public order nearly everywhere, even in regions with foreign cultures I just conquered. The tooltip gives as explanation "buildings" even though whatever buildings are present in the region shouldn't give such a large plus to PO. I can only assume some bonuses are spread globally rather than locally.
  • CA_GrimfeldCA_Grimfeld Registered Users, Moderators, CA Staff Posts: 291
    Thank you for your feedback. The idea about adding corruption to the influence is an intriguing one to say the least. Of course that would lead to most likely removing the tax bonus...

    Anyway, thank you @Ephraim_Dalton , we'll see where this goes ( :
  • kmanekekmaneke Registered Users Posts: 2
    My main complaint regarding the family Tree itself is 2 minor things:
    1: No family name? - In Rome 1 for example, say a male character has the last name (family name) "Julii". Every male descendent would have that name and every female that married into your family would take the name "Julii". That made the world feel more real and I always loved making up my own little stories for my family members.
    2: Age? Why is it I can see the age of my characters death but not in life? I like to know how old my characters are so I know when I should be preparing 1 for retirement or a change on the Throne. Maybe I'm just overlooking it but I haven't found it.

    I know this is still beta and I hope to see these changes implemented.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited July 2018

    Thank you for your feedback. The idea about adding corruption to the influence is an intriguing one to say the least. Of course that would lead to most likely removing the tax bonus...

    Anyway, thank you @Ephraim_Dalton , we'll see where this goes ( :

    I'm adding the savefile of my Macedon campaign so it's easier to illustrate my issues.

    MacedonTest

    The monetary deluge started when I took Apollonia in 240 BC. Before that I had a much tighter budget, but ever since then the funds kept rolling. I'm suspicious that some bonuses, like I suspect with PO, are applied globally and therefore stack up quickly, so the deluge might be bug related rather than design related so it might be worth to check on that before you take the hatchet to the income.

    I've also not gotten another childbirth for 30 years at this point in the campaign. I think that might be a bug too ->insert joke about the virility of Macedonian rulers<-.

    Anyway, great patch! Keep up the good work!

  • CA_GrimfeldCA_Grimfeld Registered Users, Moderators, CA Staff Posts: 291
    @kmaneke, following user feedback we have almost completed the inheritable names feature. As for character age, it can be viewed here, in the bottom right corner of character details window:




    @Ephraim_Dalton thanks, I'll look into your save file as soon as I have the time.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    edited July 2018
    Thanks!

    Another issue I'd like to bring up is the siege timer. In the savegame the siege timer is always on 1 before the besieged has to surrender. While I researched a few technologies that speed up sieges, I think I only ever got 1 turn before surrender in every siege ever since the start of the game, so that might be bugged too.

    I'd also suggest to remove the automatic ladders you get on turn 1 of the siege since these were introduced way back before patch 14 which corrected the siege AI and served as a crutch of sorts. Since the siege AI now works reasonable well on its own, I think the automatic ladders can be removed as well.
  • RonBurgundyRonBurgundy Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,354
    edited July 2018

    Thanks!

    I'd also suggest to remove the automatic ladders you get on turn 1 of the siege since these were introduced way back before patch 14 which corrected the siege AI and served as a crutch of sorts. Since the siege AI now works reasonable well on its own, I think the automatic ladders can be removed as well.

    A thousand times, yes! I’ve never had a really great siege defense battle because every time the AI attacks, it just brings ladders and the fact they can attack on the same turn mitigates a huge advantage of having walls

    This is the only TW game that handles sieges like this.
    Team Mercia

    Team Picts

    Team WRE
  • RafSwi7RafSwi7 Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,677

    Thanks!

    I'd also suggest to remove the automatic ladders you get on turn 1 of the siege since these were introduced way back before patch 14 which corrected the siege AI and served as a crutch of sorts. Since the siege AI now works reasonable well on its own, I think the automatic ladders can be removed as well.

    A thousand times, yes! I’ve never had a really great siege defense battle because every time the AI attacks, it just brings ladders and the fact they can attack on the same turn mitigates a huge advantage of having walls

    This is the only TW game that handles sieges like this.
    I would also like to see the automatic ladders gone.

    Completed EMPIRE, ROMEII, ATTILA, THRONES OF BRITANNIA, WARHAMMER, THREE KINGDOMS, TROY and ROME REMASTERED campaigns:
    EMPIRE
    France, Poland-Lithuania, Spain.
    ROMEII
    GC: Ardiaei, Arevaci, Athens, Baktria, Carthage, Cimmeria, Egypt, Epirus, Iceni, Kush, Lusitani, Macedon, Masaesyli, Massagetae, Massalia, Nabatea, Nervii, Odrysian Kingdom, Parthia, Pergamon, Rome, Royal Scythia, Saba, Seleucid, Sparta, Suebi, Syracuse.
    CiG: Arverni, Rome, Suebi.
    HatG: Arevaci, Carthage, Rome, Syracuse.
    IA: Antony's Rome, Dacia, Egypt, Marcomanni, Octavian's Rome, Parthia, Pompey's Rome.
    WoS: Athenai, Boiotian League, Korinthos, Sparta.
    ED: Armenia, Caledonii, Gallic Rome, Marcomanni, Palmyra, Rome, Saxoni, The Sassanids.
    RotR: Rome, Samnites, Senones, Syracuse, Taras, Tarchuna.
    ATTILA
    GC: Alans, Anteans, Eastern Roman Empire, Franks, Geats, Himyar, Jutes, Ostrogoths, Saxons, Venedians.
    TLR: Roman Expedition, Visigothic Kingdom.
    AoC: Kingdom of Asturias, Kingdom of Charlemagne, Kingdom of the Danes, Kingdom of Mercia.
    THRONES OF BRITANNIA
    Dublin, Gwined, Northumbria, Mercia, Sudreyar, West Seaxe.
    WARHAMMER 1 & 2 & 3
    W1: Belegar Ironhammer, Durthu, Karl Franz, Louen Leoncoeur, The Fay Enchantress.
    W2 - ME: Alith Anar, Count Noctilus, Ikit Claw, Imrik, Kroq-Gar, Louen Leoncoeur, Morghur the Shadowgave, The Fay Enchantress, Vlad von Carstein, Wulfrik the Wanderer, Wurrzag da Great Green Prophet.
    W2 - V: Eltharion, Lokhir Fellheart, Markus Wulfhart, Repanse de Lyonesse, Settra the Imperishable, Sisters of Twilight.
    W3 - RoC: Kairos Fateweaver, Tzarina Katarin, Zhao Ming.
    THREE KINGDOMS
    MOH: Liu Chong, Liu Hong, Lu Zhi, Zhang Bao.
    ROTW: Dong Zhuo, Gongsun Zan, He Yi, Liu Bei, Ma Teng, Sun Jian, Yuan Shao.
    AWB: Cao Cao, King Mulu, Liu Biao, Lü Bu, Meng Huo, Sun Ce, Yan Baihu.
    FD: Cao Cao, Liu Bei, Liu Zhang, Sun Ce, Yuan Shao.
    EP: Sima Ai, Sima Yong, Sima Yue.
    TROY
    Achilles, Aeneas, Agamemnon, Ajax, Diomedes, Hector, Hippolyta, Memnon, Menelaus, Odysseus, Paris, Penthesilea, Rhesus, Sarpedon.
    ROME REMASTERED
    RTW: Carthage, Egypt, Greek Cities, Macedon, Scipii, Scythia.
    BI: Eastern Roman Empire, Romano-British, Sarmatians, Slavs.
  • Jedidias1Jedidias1 Registered Users Posts: 284
    Yes Please!!!!!!! Remove them!!!! It shoudn't be so hard!
  • MarcusIuniusBrutusMarcusIuniusBrutus Senior Member GermanyRegistered Users Posts: 1,739
    And if they remove them, its guaranteed, that the AI not try to burn the gates most sieges?
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001

    And if they remove them, its guaranteed, that the AI not try to burn the gates most sieges?

    This was fixed in patch14, four years ago.
  • MarcusIuniusBrutusMarcusIuniusBrutus Senior Member GermanyRegistered Users Posts: 1,739
    I know, that it should work, but we can not check it at the moment, as the AI uses mostly the ladders.
  • TheShiroOfDaltonTheShiroOfDalton Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 34,001
    If they could make it work in Attila, I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to have the AI build siege equipment before it assaults.
  • CA_GrimfeldCA_Grimfeld Registered Users, Moderators, CA Staff Posts: 291
    Hey, guys. As a result of your feedback here, we have added army and navy upkeep effects to the imperium levels. To mitigate them for the AI, we have added reduced upkeeps for it in all difficulty levels.
    Furthermore, public order bonus from party influence has been significantly reduced and applied only on the two topmost levels. At the moment I can't provide any specific numbers as I'm riding the subway worm right now ( :

    Thank you for the suggestion, your feedback is very valuable.

    Cheers!
  • CA_GrimfeldCA_Grimfeld Registered Users, Moderators, CA Staff Posts: 291
    Battle loot is also reworked. It now provides more cash as slain enemies are also accoubtes for ( :
  • happycompyhappycompy Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 355

    Hey, guys. As a result of your feedback here, we have added army and navy upkeep effects to the imperium levels. To mitigate them for the AI, we have added reduced upkeeps for it in all difficulty levels.
    Furthermore, public order bonus from party influence has been significantly reduced and applied only on the two topmost levels. At the moment I can't provide any specific numbers as I'm riding the subway worm right now ( :

    Thank you for the suggestion, your feedback is very valuable.

    Cheers!

    This is awesome news!
    HappyCompy's Rome 2 video emporium

    Completed Campaigns:
    ETW: Italian States, Mughal Empire

    Shogun 2: Uesegi, Date, Shoni

    Rome II: Rome, Venetii, Bastarnians, Pontus, Athens

    Attila: Franks (minor), Vandals (cultural)
  • Jedidias1Jedidias1 Registered Users Posts: 284
    Any news regarding removing the automatic ladders? Would it be possible in this patch or not?
  • wolphyxwolphyx Registered Users Posts: 43

    Hey, guys. As a result of your feedback here, we have added army and navy upkeep effects to the imperium levels. To mitigate them for the AI, we have added reduced upkeeps for it in all difficulty levels.
    Furthermore, public order bonus from party influence has been significantly reduced and applied only on the two topmost levels. At the moment I can't provide any specific numbers as I'm riding the subway worm right now ( :

    Thank you for the suggestion, your feedback is very valuable.

    Cheers!

    Upkeep effects on imperium levels? Wow, I'd never thought one of my mods would be adapted for the vanilla Rome II game. (Now I can rightfully proclaim: "You know, I'm somewhat of a game developer myself." B) ) Just kidding, but thanks for incorporating your players' feedback so well! One of the reasons why I already preordered the new DLC.
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