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How to balance HE

Green0Green0 Registered Users Posts: 7,512
edited August 2018 in Balancing Discussions
I think HE are mostly in a fine spot, only they struggle a bit in the cavalry and infantry game. Perhaps artillery could be improved too. My suggestions:

"Dragon Princes - Halberds". Cost: 1500. 24 models, 234 HP per model, 36 MA, 32 MD, 50 CB. Since they do have a halberd, they should have AP and AL (28). Their models should visually represent the fact that they are a different variant of Dragon Princes, perhaps the Demigryph Knights models could be a good start. Also on these guys perhaps we won't have MP/MM just to not overshoot.

"Elven Militia": basically HE spearmen but cheaper. They should cost 300. Probably no shield, lower leadership and stats to compensate for the cost reduction.

"Great Elven Bolt Thrower": basically throws a larger bolt. Does more damage, flies in a straight line, more range and more damage (primarily AP). Penetrates ranks visibly more than a regular bolt thrower. Is much better at dealing with cav, killing 4-5 models per average hit compared to the normal 2-3 of the regular bolt thrower. Cost 800.

/s.

There's been a lot of posts arguing for more homogeneization. Let's not forget that some units lack some traits or are a bit weak by design and don't necessarily need buffs.
mightygloin_fan_1

Comments

  • KayosivKayosiv Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,725
    While your ideas are perhaps fine from a game design or balancing standpoint, none of these will be implemented, nor do I think that they should.

    High elves are playing pretty accurately to how they functioned in tabletop and they have great and appropriate strengths and weaknesses based on that lore.

    There's certainly some gameplay decisions from CA, such as martial mastery doing what it does, sisters of averlorn having high melee stats, and white lions being mid tier infantry instead of high tier up there with swordmasters and phoenix guard. But there's no invented units or weapon options added nor do I think there needs to be.

    High elves don't need anti-large cavalry because their front-line is spears. High elves don't need cheap militia troops because one of their weaknesses as a faction is that they are elite and low in number. Bolt throwers could use a buff but I don't think we need a whole new bolt thrower unit rather than just a slight increase to bolt thrower effectiveness.
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  • ViktorTWWforumViktorTWWforum Registered Users Posts: 1,116
    Be honest, you just want HE be OP as hel :D l
    To say your ideas are terrible is like to say nothing. Elven spears ARE militia, in fact. Very fast end skilled low-number militia - read army book. I know you want them to be cheap and expendable, but is not HE thing to be cheap and expendable. It is like 120 armor goblins and Dwarven skirmish cav.
    DP with halberds on demigryphs- really !? What are you smoking !? Super-duper charged demis with 25 % phys.resist and insane Allariel healing - yeah, sure, why not. And dont forget about this phoenix guard's skirmish cav. On phoenixes. With Hellcannons, 360° arc fire and 120 models. Because it is good way to balance HE, no doubt.
    If all this stuff is balanced for you, I fear to image what is OP in this case. This suggestions is clear example of what blind fanboism can do to this game. Demis for HE... my ass.
  • glosskilosglosskilos Registered Users Posts: 1,236
    Ill say yes if lizardmen get thunder lizards and saurus ripperdactyl riders with a salamander sitting on the back, and greenskins get black orc wyvern knights.
  • ViktorTWWforumViktorTWWforum Registered Users Posts: 1,116

    Ill say yes if lizardmen get thunder lizards and saurus ripperdactyl riders with a salamander sitting on the back, and greenskins get black orc wyvern knights.

    9 models Doomwheels will be balanced too.
  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 4,444
    High Elves don't need anymore toys to play with.
  • ystyst Registered Users Posts: 8,502
    Wrong date, not 1st apr
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  • cool_ladcool_lad Senior Member IndiaRegistered Users Posts: 2,276
    Right after the Dwarves get their cavalry and the Vampire counts get their ranged units.

    Sarcasm aside; the weaknesses of the HE pointed out by the OP are pretty much part of their design. They're an army which is supposed to have decent ranged options, with a greater reliance on elite melee in the higher tiers. The whole faction is also characterised by being fewer in numbers.

    Artillery, cavalry or numerical superiority are not part of the design of the faction and therefore should not be added.
  • Godefroy_de_BouillonGodefroy_de_Bouillon Registered Users Posts: 2,583
    Nice,

    We need grail Knights with halberds on unicorns (for magic res).
  • TlaxtlanSoothsayerTlaxtlanSoothsayer Registered Users Posts: 2,710
    Ironbreaker Goat Knights (halberds).
  • Lotus_MoonLotus_Moon Registered Users Posts: 10,245
  • RiccardoCorradiniRiccardoCorradini Registered Users Posts: 657
    Ghorgon with a stolen cannon from Empire on Minotaurs chariot is a must
  • MonochromaticSpiderMonochromaticSpider Registered Users Posts: 1,063

    Nice,

    We need grail Knights with halberds on unicorns (for magic res).

    No, grail knights on unicorns would lead to far too many bad jokes about double penetration. No can do.

    Much better idea, grail knights mounted on carnosaurs. Looks cool, has enough speed to be practical, solves the annoying AL-problem Brets have, and there's no denying the entertainment value of something taking a full charge from a carno-mounted lance. It would be borderline dirty to watch, frankly.
  • wunderb0rwunderb0r Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 686
    Throgg on a chariot pulled by halflings!
  • MadDemiurgMadDemiurg Registered Users Posts: 3,599
    Looted steam tanks!

    Team Daemons of Chaos

    Team Skaven

    Team Orcs & Goblins

  • Mogwai_ManMogwai_Man Registered Users Posts: 4,444
    Feral Steam Tanks.
  • Godefroy_de_BouillonGodefroy_de_Bouillon Registered Users Posts: 2,583
    edited August 2018

    Nice,

    We need grail Knights with halberds on unicorns (for magic res).

    No, grail knights on unicorns would lead to far too many bad jokes about double penetration. No can do.

    Much better idea, grail knights mounted on carnosaurs. Looks cool, has enough speed to be practical, solves the annoying AL-problem Brets have, and there's no denying the entertainment value of something taking a full charge from a carno-mounted lance. It would be borderline dirty to watch, frankly.
    Grail Knights mounted on steampowered drago-steamtanks
  • havy09havy09 Registered Users Posts: 242
    edited August 2018
    I’d rather CA put in there missing units/heroes: White Lion Chariots, Lothern Sky Cutters, Archmages, Dragon Mages, Phoenix Mounts, Gryphon Mounts, Prince Imrik, Eltharion the Grim, Captain Caradryan, Sea Helm,etc...

    Hopefully one day CA revisits the HE. I think they designed the HE play style to be more humanoid/finesse rather than incorporating missing “monstrous/big” units. Probably won’t happen until WH1 factions get flushed out though :/
    Post edited by havy09 on
  • glosskilosglosskilos Registered Users Posts: 1,236
    Oh and anti grav steam tanks with twin linked gatling guns for the empire
  • Loupi_Loupi_ Registered Users Posts: 2,358
    Beastmen need a cygor that throws fate of bjunas instead of rocks
  • James_HarrisonJames_Harrison Registered Users Posts: 4
    It would be great to see Archmages, lion chariots and skycutters though...I am sad they didn’t bother to do more than reskin for our DLC
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