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Gold income vs. Food shortage causing distortions in recruitment

This is on VH Campaign with the Irish Vikings.

I have 3 provinces in Ireland plus the Isle of Man. My income is almost 4K per turn despite my army cost being almost 2K. The only limitation on me raising more men is Food, which has always been the bottleneck throughout the entire campaign. All my building decisions prioritize food, not gold income and I still have too much gold with too little food.

As a result, my armies are mostly Retinue troops. I have no incentive to train Levy troops because they cost the same food as Retinue.

The solution I think is not to lower the gold income (as high level buildings are so expensive) but to adjust food costs.

Retinue and Elite troops should cost MORE FOOD than Levy troops. Cavalry should cost more than Infantry.

Here's my proposal:

Levy Infantry: 5 food
Levy Cavalry: 10 food
Retinue Infantry: 10 food
Retinue Cavalry: 20 food
Elite Infantry: 15 food
Elite Cavalry: 30 food

This gives the player some incentive to actually train levies rather than going all Retinue/Elite level.

It also makes more sense historically as Retinues would be full time soldiers and thus contribute nothing to agriculture. They would also demand more meat and have their own servants/family/clients to feed, so they should cost more food.

Cavalry costing more food is a no-brainer.

Comments

  • Felix_CarnifexFelix_Carnifex Junior Member Posts: 23Registered Users
    +1 for this suggestion!
  • Jack_Lusted_CAJack_Lusted_CA Creative Assembly Brighton, UKPosts: 1,346Registered Users, CA Staff Mods, CA Staff
    Food upkeep for units is specified on a faction level, and the AI has been coded to deal with it under the assumption the value is consistent for all units in a faction. Whilst a nice suggestion, making this change would require big changes to how the AI works and understands food upkeep.
    Game Director - Thrones of Britannia

    Disclaimer: Any views or opinions expressed here are those of the poster and do not necessarily represent the views or opinions of Creative Assembly or SEGA.
  • AurelianDidItAurelianDidIt Posts: 14Registered Users

    Food upkeep for units is specified on a faction level, and the AI has been coded to deal with it under the assumption the value is consistent for all units in a faction. Whilst a nice suggestion, making this change would require big changes to how the AI works and understands food upkeep.

    As always, thanks for the reply. It's so refreshing to get specific, honest, sensible answers from lead developers.

    And I can understand that it would take too many Charlemagnes to redo all that AI code.

    That being said I still do believe that there should be more food income and less gold income. As I progress further on my Irish Vikings campaign, I'm left with nothing but small armies of all-Retinue units, while my gold income is still quite healthy.

    I understand that the Irish Vikings are one of the richer factions due to their economic bonuses through the slave trade and the ports. But even so, it's strange fielding these all professional armies in 9th century Ireland.
  • AurelianDidItAurelianDidIt Posts: 14Registered Users
    Forgot to add my suggestion on fixing the gold/food balance:

    Increase corruption. Despite acquiring bad traits on governors all the time, my provinces are still sitting at less than 20% corruption, many are less than 10%.

    I don't have any of the anti-corruption structures built either.

    The modifier that ramps up corruption across the board as your faction grows in size needs to increase. Money is only tight in the early game. Once you reach the mid-game, you start steamrolling, even if all you get are half stacks of retinue troops (cause the food bottleneck).
  • thesmooshthesmoosh Posts: 5Registered Users
    The best way to balance Levy vs Retinue / Elite is through replenishment rate. If your whole army is made of elites (i.e nobles), it would take much longer to replenish after a battle, whereas levies which can be filled by anyone would fill up much faster.

    Ideally there would actually be a population systemin game where the impact of wars could be felt through the loss of fighting population, and raiding/pillaging would affect the civilian population but I don't see that happening at this point.

    @Jack_Lusted_CA not sure if you've tried the people of rome addon in Rome 2 but that executes a lot of these mechanics and at least when I tried it as part of DEI, it definitely made me want to mix up levies and auxiliaries into my army all the way to end game.
  • Ephraim_DaltonEphraim_Dalton Senior Member Posts: 20,738Registered Users
    edited August 2018
    I see no reason to implement this because the game's already effectively restricting the amount of high tier units in your army and what sense does it make to have them cost more food anyway? Is military prowess tied to body fat?

    What should be done is make early building upgrades cost less but later ones cost more food, because right now certain factions start with so little nutrition that it is impossible to recruit additional units.

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