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is total war secretly a series of sports video games?

for_bretonniafor_bretonnia Posts: 1,616Registered Users
let's think about this rationally for a moment. before the aztecs invented football, going to war and killing people was the only viable sport available in any society.

and total war style warfare is all about getting favorable matchups for your dudes or ladies, which is exactly like any sport ever.


I'm surprised there isn't more overlap between sports nerdom and RTS or moba nerdom. I mean there probably is, but I dont really pay attention to esports that much, or, real sports, really, but I figure the people that play fifa or madden are probably also the same people that play dota 2 and makes tons of money before playing the game that they're really passionate about but doesnt pay as well, which of course is warhamer total war 2.

right?

Comments

  • LordCommanderLordCommander Posts: 1,114Registered Users

    let's think about this rationally for a moment. before the aztecs invented football, going to war and killing people was the only viable sport available in any society.

    I think you have a very shaky grasp of the term 'rationally'. Also the Aztec did not invent football. They simply independently developed a version of it.
  • for_bretonniafor_bretonnia Posts: 1,616Registered Users

    let's think about this rationally for a moment. before the aztecs invented football, going to war and killing people was the only viable sport available in any society.

    Also the Aztec did not invent football. They simply independently developed a version of it.
    sounds they were kicking a ball with their feet a long time ago. before probably anyone else, although dont quote me on that because a lot of people could have been kicking a ball with feet throughout human history.

    +1 aztecs
  • jherr46jherr46 Posts: 112Registered Users
    edited October 2018
    Killing people was never a sport, its called war. Most wars were fought for land/resources/ideology’s/faith.

    And I’m sorry I’m not quite sure I see the comparison between a sports game and Warhammer or I guess I really don’t understand what you are saying.. idk
  • LordCommanderLordCommander Posts: 1,114Registered Users



    sounds they were kicking a ball with their feet a long time ago. before probably anyone else, although dont quote me on that because a lot of people could have been kicking a ball with feet throughout human history.

    +1 aztecs

    ōllamalitzli was played with the hips, not the feet.


    -1 Aztecs
  • RikRiorikRikRiorik Posts: 7,122Registered Users



    sounds they were kicking a ball with their feet a long time ago. before probably anyone else, although dont quote me on that because a lot of people could have been kicking a ball with feet throughout human history.

    +1 aztecs

    ōllamalitzli was played with the hips, not the feet.


    -1 Aztecs
    Either that is one big ball or some weird and uncomfortable playing positions.

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  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Posts: 16,233Registered Users
    Besides Aztecs not "inventing" football as OP claims, war is not sport and even if it were, I fail to see the connection between warfare and trying to find favourable conditions for your characters, and a sports video game.

    And then the unfounded assumption- AFTER admitting having no clue- between eSports players, real sports players, and DOTA players.

    So no it's not a secret, it's as sport as much as doing something for the entertainment value is a sport. But that's called a game.

    Corrected action is the most sincere form of apology.
  • for_bretonniafor_bretonnia Posts: 1,616Registered Users
    jherr46 said:

    Killing people was never a sport, its called war. Most wars were fought for land/resources/ideology’s/faith.

    And I’m sorry I’m not quite sure I see the comparison between a sports game and Warhammer or I guess I really don’t understand what you are saying.. idk
    what about in gladiator sports. nice logic tho.

    if you look at how football has positions and they all play a role for a side. and then look at how total war has units that play a role for a side. it's the same thing.

    war is sports for people not into sports and sports is war for people not into war.

  • ArminageShikobaArminageShikoba Junior Member Posts: 172Registered Users
    Actually war would still be war.

    Sports will be the ancient olympics, Mob football (medieval football), Jousting. I would consider them sports, of the past, but war itself is not a sport.

    But I understand what you are getting at, just when in peace time they had tournaments to mimic small battles, but they were meant for fun and entertainment and not to kill. i.e. Gladiatorial fights were for entertainment, and not made to see someone die, though death was common.
  • for_bretonniafor_bretonnia Posts: 1,616Registered Users
    daelin4 said:

    Besides Aztecs not "inventing" football as OP claims, war is not sport and even if it were, I fail to see the connection between warfare and trying to find favourable conditions for your characters, and a sports video game.

    And then the unfounded assumption- AFTER admitting having no clue- between eSports players, real sports players, and DOTA players.

    So no it's not a secret, it's as sport as much as doing something for the entertainment value is a sport. But that's called a game.

    games, sports. it's all the same thing. posting on a forum is a sport. it's also a war
  • ArminageShikobaArminageShikoba Junior Member Posts: 172Registered Users

    jherr46 said:

    Killing people was never a sport, its called war. Most wars were fought for land/resources/ideology’s/faith.

    And I’m sorry I’m not quite sure I see the comparison between a sports game and Warhammer or I guess I really don’t understand what you are saying.. idk
    what about in gladiator sports. nice logic tho.

    if you look at how football has positions and they all play a role for a side. and then look at how total war has units that play a role for a side. it's the same thing.

    war is sports for people not into sports and sports is war for people not into war.

    The definition of sport is two teams or a series of teams going head to head, using physical exertion or skill for entertainment.

    I wouldn't class war as entertainment, apart from those who are maybe cynical.
  • for_bretonniafor_bretonnia Posts: 1,616Registered Users

    Actually war would still be war.

    Sports will be the ancient olympics, Mob football (medieval football), Jousting. I would consider them sports, of the past, but war itself is not a sport.

    But I understand what you are getting at, just when in peace time they had tournaments to mimic small battles, but they were meant for fun and entertainment and not to kill. i.e. Gladiatorial fights were for entertainment, and not made to see someone die, though death was common.



    but war would still be a game of sorts played by rulers or wealthy bureaucrats? Analogous to chess, but played with armies and soldiers instead of chess pieces?

    so like, exactly a sport, basically?

    definition of sport: an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

    yes? yes. lol. get out of here with these mental gymnastics. so when we play TOTAL war and risk CARPAL TUNNEL we're exerting ourselves physically playing a game, or SPORT.

    unless you're just playing against the ai or something like that, but even then, it's still a sport
  • FifthOfSpaghettiFifthOfSpaghetti Posts: 1,629Registered Users
    Didn’t some Native American groups go to “war” with each other as sport? The Apache I believe? Or Iroquois. I’m not terribly familiar. As much as I don’t want to support this nonsense
  • for_bretonniafor_bretonnia Posts: 1,616Registered Users

    Didn’t some Native American groups go to “war” with each other as sport? The Apache I believe? Or Iroquois. I’m not terribly familiar. As much as I don’t want to support this nonsense

    total war as a game, is totally a sport.

    in terms of actual war being a sport, well, it definitely could be a sport, but that's neither here or there.
  • ArminageShikobaArminageShikoba Junior Member Posts: 172Registered Users

    Actually war would still be war.

    Sports will be the ancient olympics, Mob football (medieval football), Jousting. I would consider them sports, of the past, but war itself is not a sport.

    But I understand what you are getting at, just when in peace time they had tournaments to mimic small battles, but they were meant for fun and entertainment and not to kill. i.e. Gladiatorial fights were for entertainment, and not made to see someone die, though death was common.



    but war would still be a game of sorts played by rulers or wealthy bureaucrats? Analogous to chess, but played with armies and soldiers instead of chess pieces?

    so like, exactly a sport, basically?

    definition of sport: an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

    yes? yes. lol. get out of here with these mental gymnastics. so when we play TOTAL war and risk CARPAL TUNNEL we're exerting ourselves physically playing a game, or SPORT.

    unless you're just playing against the ai or something like that, but even then, it's still a sport
    Yes if you take the game itself and use it for a competition purpose then yes it is can fall under the category of eSports, but what you are saying is war itself is a sport, which it is not.

    Sport is meant to be entertainment for a mass crowd, not meant for one person to enjoy, most soldiers are forced into war itself, with few to no volunteers, where as sport is mainly those who want to compete and with few to none being forced to compete.
  • for_bretonniafor_bretonnia Posts: 1,616Registered Users
    what kind of society glorifies war games into some kind of sacred art

    Actually war would still be war.

    Sports will be the ancient olympics, Mob football (medieval football), Jousting. I would consider them sports, of the past, but war itself is not a sport.

    But I understand what you are getting at, just when in peace time they had tournaments to mimic small battles, but they were meant for fun and entertainment and not to kill. i.e. Gladiatorial fights were for entertainment, and not made to see someone die, though death was common.



    but war would still be a game of sorts played by rulers or wealthy bureaucrats? Analogous to chess, but played with armies and soldiers instead of chess pieces?

    so like, exactly a sport, basically?

    definition of sport: an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment.

    yes? yes. lol. get out of here with these mental gymnastics. so when we play TOTAL war and risk CARPAL TUNNEL we're exerting ourselves physically playing a game, or SPORT.

    unless you're just playing against the ai or something like that, but even then, it's still a sport
    Yes if you take the game itself and use it for a competition purpose then yes it is can fall under the category of eSports, but what you are saying is war itself is a sport, which it is not.

    Sport is meant to be entertainment for a mass crowd, not meant for one person to enjoy, most soldiers are forced into war itself, with few to no volunteers, where as sport is mainly those who want to compete and with few to none being forced to compete.
    but from our perspective as gamers (lol) war is definitely somewhat for fun and games, and there's a way to REALLY QUICKLY make that analogous to participatory or spectator sports, but it feels like it would be REALLY DIFFICULT

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Posts: 16,886Registered Users
    I watch a lot of UFC when a fight is really good it's often referred to as a "War" so there's that.
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  • dge1dge1 Moderator Arkansas, USAPosts: 18,771Registered Users, Moderators, Knights
    Not a Warhammer related topic. Moved to Chat.
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  • CanuoveaCanuovea Posts: 13,363Registered Users, Moderators
    Technically speaking, I'm sure some peoples throughout history viewed war as a sport. Depends on cultural distinctions.
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  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Posts: 2,591Registered Users

    I watch a lot of UFC when a fight is really good it's often referred to as a "War" so there's that.

    That is called a metaphor.
    ò_ó
  • for_bretonniafor_bretonnia Posts: 1,616Registered Users
    Total war is so similar to football.

    11 players a side in football. They play to kick a ball through a goal.

    20 units a side in total war, sometimes in campaign there might be 40 units. And the player plays to route all the enemy units, or kill them, whichever comes first.

    Reasonably similar rulesets. Total war is even timed sometimes. 60 minutes usually I think, whereas football is 90 minutes with an intermission.

    Real war being a sport.... who cares but skirmish level pseudo simulation.... total war type war, codified into mass entertainment as it is, definitley seems to be analogue to sports. If it isn’t a sport.... well technically the same kind of stuff happens in it as happens in sports, so i don’t see how it isn’t basically a simulation of sport. Remove the basically, or the simulation.... it’s a sport

    And you play these games.... for fun, shocker.

    I mean in rp flavor text fantasy land many of you are deeply reverent about how many soldiers are/were forcibly conscripted and how war probably is emblematic of the human condition and our eternal struggle or some other ridiculous BS but on the level of this video game.... war is a game to you, it’s a sport

  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Posts: 2,591Registered Users
    edited October 2018

    BS but on the level of this video game.... war is a game to you, it’s a sport
    You seem to think you are making a profound insight, but I’m failing to see why this is relevant or interesting. Everybody knows people are entertained by violence.
    ò_ó
  • daelin4daelin4 Senior Member Posts: 16,233Registered Users
    If war was a sport as well as a game, then those hoplites that had to spend their time and money on training and weapons sure didn't seem to enjoy it.
    Or those legionaries, for that matter. I don't think being like the thrill of marching for many miles, only to die to disease, if not get your head lopped off by some barbarian.

    Not everyone plays sports for entertainment, either. There's a difference between choosing to do something you're passionate about, and doing something because that's all you know.

    Of course, that's the old man in me talking.

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  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Posts: 2,591Registered Users
    It is probably worth noting that it is universally agreed upon that sports were invented in order to, in times of peace, train the body and develop skills that would be useful in warfare.

    So to say that war is sport is to put the kart before the horse, so to speak.
    ò_ó
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