VCoast not looking so good anymore

ptavangar · October 2018

I have to say that I am quite unhappy with what I'm seeing with these legendary lords. I cannot believe that CA would prioritize adding 2 female LL's over lore and logic. Vangheist and Skretch would have made MUCH better LL's than these two. I'm all for female LL's so don't get me wrong. But I think we should prioritize differently. Saltespite is cool and all, but she isn't undead and should not really be commanding undead pirates. Her crew is living.... And Charlotta Jacoba is very obscure and I'm pretty sure she isn't a pirate. Skretch and Vangheist would have been awesome because they're unique AF, have cool arse ships/crews, and are both in dreadfleet. It would have been perfect!

Even if I'm wrong about it being Charlotta Jacoba, the point is that it is clearly either a very obscure character or a completely new character. Either way, skretch and vangheist made a lot more sense from a lore perspective. Having female LL's is great when it fits and makes sense (e.g., Isabella, Alarielle, Khalida). But giving us female LL's simply for the sake of having more female LL's is not right. It is almost patronizing.

CA had better give us a good reason (lore-wise) for why they added Saltespite even though she should be commanding living armies and why they are giving us this relatively unknown character.

While I'm at it though.... "death shriek terrorgheist"???? Is that CA's way of trying to market the same old terrorgheist as something new and unique? We saw the trailer and clearly it is the same terrorgheist. Also, ALL terrorgheists have death shriek... Stop trying to fool us. It isn't working. And I think it is really messed up to copy and paste a big monster from one race to another. This is a full on campaign pack and should be of a higher quality. There were other monsters in the lore to choose from so there is no excuse. It was bad enough when CA was on a giant craze and thus we got FOUR reskinned giants, but having the exact same terrorgheist in two different races takes away its uniqueness and is insulting since we are paying twice for the same unit.

I expected more of you CA after seeing how amazingly high quality the Tomb Kings DLC was and after waiting a ridiculous amount of time for this DLC. You promised very high quality DLCs for the long wait times. Although, this DLC clearly has merits, these rough spots really looks bad.

TheGuardianOfMetal · October 2018

ptavangar said:
I have to say that I am quite unhappy with what I'm seeing with these legendary lords. I cannot believe that CA would prioritize adding 2 female LL's over lore and logic. Vangheist and Skretch would have made MUCH better LL's than these two. I'm all for female LL's so don't get me wrong. But I think we should prioritize differently. Saltespite is cool and all, but she isn't undead and should not really be commanding undead pirates. Her crew is living.... And Charlotta Jacoba is very obscure and I'm pretty sure she isn't a pirate. Skretch and Vangheist would have been awesome because they're unique AF, have cool arse ships/crews, and are both in dreadfleet. It would have been perfect!

Even if I'm wrong about it being Charlotta Jacoba, the point is that it is clearly either a very obscure character or a completely new character. Either way, skretch and vangheist made a lot more sense from a lore perspective. Having female LL's is great when it fits and makes sense (e.g., Isabella, Alarielle, Khalida). But giving us female LL's simply for the sake of having more female LL's is not right. It is almost patronizing.

CA had better give us a good reason (lore-wise) for why they added Saltespite even though she should be commanding living armies and why they are giving us this relatively unknown character.

While I'm at it though.... "death shriek terrorgheist"???? Is that CA's way of trying to market the same old terrorgheist as something new and unique? We saw the trailer and clearly it is the same terrorgheist. Also, ALL terrorgheists have death shriek... Stop trying to fool us. It isn't working. And I think it is really messed up to copy and paste a big monster from one race to another. This is a full on campaign pack and should be of a higher quality. There were other monsters in the lore to choose from so there is no excuse. It was bad enough when CA was on a giant craze and thus we got FOUR reskinned giants, but having the exact same terrorgheist in two different races takes away its uniqueness and is insulting since we are paying twice for the same unit.

I expected more of you CA after seeing how amazingly high quality the Tomb Kings DLC was and after waiting a ridiculous amount of time for this DLC. You promised very high quality DLCs for the long wait times. Although, this DLC clearly has merits, these rough spots really looks bad.

WE DON'T EVEN NOW IF IT'S CHARLOTTA! IT COULD BE A NEWLY CREATED "GENDERBEND" VERSION OF VARNGHEIST CALLED "SIREN OF THE STORMS" OR WHATEVER.

Her silhouette compared to the others lacks feet and seems to be flaoting

SiWI · October 2018

well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

Tennisgolfboll · October 2018

I dont care about Arnessa.

If i did i would have been livid to see one of my favorite LLs leading an enemy faction.

Like Karl Franz for skaven. Or Thorgrim leading greenskins.

TheGuardianOfMetal · October 2018

SiWI said:
well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.

tyrannus · October 2018

Ah just imagine if it was DoW with Borgio, Lucrezzia, Lorenzo and Mydas.

Crossil · October 2018

The only one that I'm miffed with is Aranessa really. Then again with the guy behind Dreadfleet here why not let him advance the lore? Maybe he'll do it well.

Just not undead Sartosa please.

As for 4th character can't you wait before judging?

The Terrorgheist is pretty much like any other shared unit some races have.

ptavangar · October 2018

SiWI said:
well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.

You're kidding right? All races can be undead and in the lore many races have been raised from the dead. The animated hulk unit in teh vcoast roster are undead ogres....

SiWI · October 2018

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

SiWI said:
well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.
Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.

funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

But on ascetics alone they don't fit.

Vampires have clear 17th century aesthetics and skaven have NONE of that.

TheGuardianOfMetal · October 2018

tyrannus said:
Ah just imagine if it was DoW with Borgio, Lucrezzia, Lorenzo and Mydas.

Gashnag the Black Prince is sad.

ptavangar · October 2018

Crossil said:
The only one that I'm miffed with is Aranessa really. Then again with the guy behind Dreadfleet here why not let him advance the lore? Maybe he'll do it well.

Just not undead Sartosa please.

As for 4th character can't you wait before judging?

The Terrorgheist is pretty much like any other shared unit some races have.

Give me one example of a big monster that has been copied and pasted like this. At least with giants there are different kinds of giants and thus they look different.

RikRiorik · October 2018

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

tyrannus said:
Ah just imagine if it was DoW with Borgio, Lucrezzia, Lorenzo and Mydas.
Gnashrag the Black Prince is sad.

As is Pirazzo and his Lost Legion.

SiWI · October 2018

I really a bit buff that people are seem to be shocked that 4 LL for ZP means that red shirts get promoted...

even the most prominent of ZP LL is a pretty much an outsider TT wise, with no Armybook or model in the 8th.

tyrannus · October 2018

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

tyrannus said:
Ah just imagine if it was DoW with Borgio, Lucrezzia, Lorenzo and Mydas.
Gnashrag the Black Prince is sad.

Heh, with how DoW fans reacted to campaign pack, i don't know what reaction would be if yet another vamp took LL slot.If they added border princes lord, i'd prefer Leitpold the Black or Morgan Bernhardt.

Surge_2 · October 2018

Its good for gaming, and the 'lore' as it was is minor anyway. Bring on the lady pirates.

I just want to see those colossus walking around and shooting things with a Vampire Pirate in the crow's nest.

TheGuardianOfMetal · October 2018

tyrannus said:

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

tyrannus said:
Ah just imagine if it was DoW with Borgio, Lucrezzia, Lorenzo and Mydas.
Gnashrag the Black Prince is sad.
Heh, with how DoW fans reacted to campaign pack, i don't know what reaction would be if yet another vamp took LL slot.If they added border princes lord, i'd prefer Leitpold the Black or Morgan Bernhardt.

Hey, Gnashrag would be a Vampire Lord without Vampiric Corruption and stuff. Morgan Bernhardt is more Empire aligned than Border Princes.

Fuzzybeard3 · October 2018

CA wtf Saltspite instead of vangheist, skretch, or drekla. This to me is forcing a female character just becuase even though there is absolutly no lore reason for saltstpite to be in. Disrespecting warhammer fantasy to this extent is going way too far. Really disapointed as UNDEAD PIRATES was initially summing up to be a fanatic dlc. Now it's seems your forcing in at least one female character that doesn't belong.

Infinite_Maw · October 2018

Vangheist and Skretch have no free over Noctilus from what I have heard, which makes them fighting Noctilus a bit lore-unfriendly. Saltspite controlling the undead is also pretty dumb as well. It is a close tie on the lore-breaking, but I was more leaning towards Vangheist with the original character. At least we got the two most important vampire pirate lords.

Nevertheless I will also state I do like certain LL choices, they are not really a priority for me. The priority is interesting unique infantry, cavalry and monsters (or otherwise). For example Araby has no interesting neutral characters, except for two mentioned in Town Scyer #21 (don't know if that is canon or not, but CA might as well make it be). However it is their army units such as the jezzail mounted camels and Royal Djinn that is interesting.
It has always been the soldiers that have been the highlight of total war games, not necessarily the leaders.

Also no idea what a death shriek terrorgheist is, just pretend it is a lustrian breed or something.

I think you are overreacting a little, at the end of the day it does have the same quality and effort as tomb kings. For a lot of vampire coast infantry they definitely needed to do a lot of new animations, zombies holding guns or spears in comparison to the tomb kings infantry and cavalry being reskinned units, and of course a lot of the single-entity monsters have unique animations.

Crossil · October 2018

ptavangar said:

Crossil said:
The only one that I'm miffed with is Aranessa really. Then again with the guy behind Dreadfleet here why not let him advance the lore? Maybe he'll do it well.

Just not undead Sartosa please.

As for 4th character can't you wait before judging?

The Terrorgheist is pretty much like any other shared unit some races have.
Give me one example of a big monster that has been copied and pasted like this. At least with giants there are different kinds of giants and thus they look different.

Treeman. Frost Wyrm is recolored Chaos Dragon but apparently that's fine. And there were units ala marauders, Chaos Trolls and harpies shared when appropriate. So just how different does it have to be? Giants are literally just reskins.

SiWI · October 2018

RikRiorik said:

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

tyrannus said:
Ah just imagine if it was DoW with Borgio, Lucrezzia, Lorenzo and Mydas.
Gnashrag the Black Prince is sad.
As is Pirazzo and his Lost Legion.

he should sue CA for using his flag but not putting him in.

tyrannus · October 2018

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

tyrannus said:

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

tyrannus said:
Ah just imagine if it was DoW with Borgio, Lucrezzia, Lorenzo and Mydas.
Gnashrag the Black Prince is sad.
Heh, with how DoW fans reacted to campaign pack, i don't know what reaction would be if yet another vamp took LL slot.If they added border princes lord, i'd prefer Leitpold the Black or Morgan Bernhardt.
Hey, Gnashrag would be a Vampire Lord without Vampiric Corruption and stuff. Morgan Bernhardt is more Empire aligned than Border Princes.

Yeah, but in the beginning of his career he was in Border Princes, he became hero of empire later. Actually would be cool if you could duplicate his pass in sandbox enviroment. Sorta how Azhag became hero of empire in one of my campaigns, when i saved them from Archaon.

tyrannus · October 2018

Crossil said:

ptavangar said:

Crossil said:
The only one that I'm miffed with is Aranessa really. Then again with the guy behind Dreadfleet here why not let him advance the lore? Maybe he'll do it well.

Just not undead Sartosa please.

As for 4th character can't you wait before judging?

The Terrorgheist is pretty much like any other shared unit some races have.
Give me one example of a big monster that has been copied and pasted like this. At least with giants there are different kinds of giants and thus they look different.
Treeman. Frost Wyrm is recolored Chaos Dragon but apparently that's fine. And there were units ala marauders, Chaos Trolls and harpies shared when appropriate. So just how different does it have to be? Giants are literally just reskins.

Don't forget about good ole giant.

SteelRonin · October 2018

The problem is that the DLC is called Vampire Coast, and for that reason, the lords and units should be vampire-undead.

The DLC name could be "Dreadfleet" and they could add the Pirates they want, Saltspite with human crew, Skretch with skaven crew, Noctilus and Harkon with the unit roster we already saw in the trailer.....Maybe some common units for the 4 LL...who knows.

Same faction mechanism to the 4.......I mean, this skaven lord without the food mechanism of the normal Skaven faction.

These 4 lords or even more in the future, should compite for being the best pirate....like Clan Angrund vs Crooked Moon, vs Clan Mors fighting for K8P...

I believe it would be much easier that way...

Enforest · October 2018

SiWI said:

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

SiWI said:
well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.
Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

But on ascetics alone they don't fit.

Vampires have clear 17th century aesthetics and skaven have NONE of that.

SiWI said:
I really a bit buff that people are seem to be shocked that 4 LL for ZP means that red shirts get promoted...

even the most prominent of ZP LL is a pretty much an outsider TT wise, with no Armybook or model in the 8th.

And you've just defeated yourself with your own statement. This DLC is based on VCoast White Dwarf and Dreadfleet. Character list has nothing to do with 8th edition.

Skretch has all the reasons to be with VCoast, he had his own special ship made of a corpse of undead moster with jurry-rigged lightning cannons and bell on top of it. Don't get me started on Vangheist even.

People are shocked because it is plain bad choice by CA and the fact that Ghorst and Tretch has not taught them anything.

SakuraHeinz · October 2018

Yes Im sad too. Cant wait to be called a nazi, for wanting a cool manly Ghost Captain instead of a disney Villain-nobody character.

Crossil · October 2018

Enforest said:

SiWI said:

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

SiWI said:
well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.
Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

But on ascetics alone they don't fit.

Vampires have clear 17th century aesthetics and skaven have NONE of that.

SiWI said:
I really a bit buff that people are seem to be shocked that 4 LL for ZP means that red shirts get promoted...

even the most prominent of ZP LL is a pretty much an outsider TT wise, with no Armybook or model in the 8th.
And you've just defeated yourself with your own statement. This DLC is based on VCoast White Dwarf and Dreadfleet. Character list has nothing to do with 8th edition.

Skretch has all the reasons to be with VCoast, he had his own special ship made of a corpse of undead moster with jurry-rigged lightning cannons and bell on top of it. Don't get me started on Vangheist even.

People are shocked because it is plain bad choice by CA and the fact that Ghorst and Tretch has not taught them anything.

I think the problem would be that Skretch is under Noctilus's control. At least Vangheist and Drekla have their own minds.

Ol_Nessie · October 2018

SiWI said:

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

SiWI said:
well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.
Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

There's the Cursed Company.

SternguardShootyface · October 2018

ptavangar said:
It is almost patronizing.

Matronizing?

SiWI · October 2018

Enforest said:

SiWI said:

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

SiWI said:
well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.
Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

But on ascetics alone they don't fit.

Vampires have clear 17th century aesthetics and skaven have NONE of that.

SiWI said:
I really a bit buff that people are seem to be shocked that 4 LL for ZP means that red shirts get promoted...

even the most prominent of ZP LL is a pretty much an outsider TT wise, with no Armybook or model in the 8th.
And you've just defeated yourself with your own statement. This DLC is based on VCoast White Dwarf and Dreadfleet. Character list has nothing to do with 8th edition.

Skretch has all the reasons to be with VCoast, he had his own special ship made of a corpse of undead moster with jurry-rigged lightning cannons and bell on top of it. Don't get me started on Vangheist even.

People are shocked because it is plain bad choice by CA and the fact that Ghorst and Tretch has not taught them anything.

except that they still should follow the base ascetics of a race and lets be clear: the WD Zp were never a "own" race, but a sub faction/race of the VC.

Skretch is a skaven which would, to be "logical", demand skaven units. Undead skaven even.
Not only clashes that with the basic design of Vampires in Warhammer, but it makes the ZP which are obscure already, a wierd mix of things that don't fit together.

Also what exactly should have CA learned from Ghorst or Tretch? did it effect sales or reviews in a measurable way? I kinda doubt that.

Vangheits is a different beast and would be perhaps better then what ever LL 4 is, but it is kinda interesting that people kinda base part of they outrage on the non fact that LL4 is female.

SiWI · October 2018

ben8vtedu said:

SiWI said:

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

SiWI said:
well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.
Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.
There's the Cursed Company.

wasn't that a DoW unit?

(and also a bit outdated at this point)

Enforest · October 2018

Crossil said:

Enforest said:

SiWI said:

TheGuardianOfMetal said:

SiWI said:
well first of all we only know 1 female, the other one is assume to be female because of the fan but does look a bit bulky doesn't it.

And while I wouldn't argue Vangheist, I would argue against Skretch.

Skaven have no business being undead, thats a human thing.
Nagash, The Witch Hunter Books and Dreadfleet all disagree with you. Zombieslayer also disagrees because of undead Beastmen and an undead Slayer.
funny enough, GW seem to agree with me since they never bothered to do any non human undead in the TT.

But on ascetics alone they don't fit.

Vampires have clear 17th century aesthetics and skaven have NONE of that.

SiWI said:
I really a bit buff that people are seem to be shocked that 4 LL for ZP means that red shirts get promoted...

even the most prominent of ZP LL is a pretty much an outsider TT wise, with no Armybook or model in the 8th.
And you've just defeated yourself with your own statement. This DLC is based on VCoast White Dwarf and Dreadfleet. Character list has nothing to do with 8th edition.

Skretch has all the reasons to be with VCoast, he had his own special ship made of a corpse of undead moster with jurry-rigged lightning cannons and bell on top of it. Don't get me started on Vangheist even.

People are shocked because it is plain bad choice by CA and the fact that Ghorst and Tretch has not taught them anything.
I think the problem would be that Skretch is under Noctilus's control. At least Vangheist and Drekla have their own minds.

Drekla is fanatically devoted to Harkon and it would make less sense him being more indepentant than Skretch. It was also clear that Skretch retained most of his capabilities, it would be at least somewhat plausible to make him on his own, especialyl knowing Skaven nature.

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