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Vampire Coast Legendary Lord: Luthor Harkon

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  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,571
    Canuovea said:

    Canuovea said:

    Sbygneus said:

    I don't see the problem with Aranesa being alive. Necromancers are technicaly alive too.

    She never used Undead. She never utilized necromancy. She never was part of the Dreadfleet. She was part of Jaego Roths Great Alliance to fight the Dreadfleet.

    I by now am simply hoping that CA made her lines as undeady as possible to allow modders to change her into a living character again and make her faction and Sartosa into a living pirates paradise.
    Times change...
    If anybody and their mothers can use Necromancy it shows only one Time... End Times. But then I want Goldmaster Gelt to have Necromancy as well. And Grimgor. and Karl Franz. And Volkmar, And Tyrion. And Mazdamundi. Everybody gets necromancy!
    Technically, she doesn't even have to be the one using the necromancy. I mean. In the Lore all Tomb Kings except Settra needed to have a magic caster to keep their army around but that isn't the case here.
    still if the Lord and Liche Priest dies your army crumbles. So either Saltspite can in someway use Necromancy or you always need an undead hero. and that would be only a small improvement.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 13,898

    Canuovea said:

    Canuovea said:

    Sbygneus said:

    I don't see the problem with Aranesa being alive. Necromancers are technicaly alive too.

    She never used Undead. She never utilized necromancy. She never was part of the Dreadfleet. She was part of Jaego Roths Great Alliance to fight the Dreadfleet.

    I by now am simply hoping that CA made her lines as undeady as possible to allow modders to change her into a living character again and make her faction and Sartosa into a living pirates paradise.
    Times change...
    If anybody and their mothers can use Necromancy it shows only one Time... End Times. But then I want Goldmaster Gelt to have Necromancy as well. And Grimgor. and Karl Franz. And Volkmar, And Tyrion. And Mazdamundi. Everybody gets necromancy!
    Technically, she doesn't even have to be the one using the necromancy. I mean. In the Lore all Tomb Kings except Settra needed to have a magic caster to keep their army around but that isn't the case here.
    still if the Lord and Liche Priest dies your army crumbles. So either Saltspite can in someway use Necromancy or you always need an undead hero. and that would be only a small improvement.
    Well, Liche Priests aren't really needed in TWW2 though. They just kinda... handwave that. And it makes sense more or less in the lore, as Konrad Bon Barstool basically just had his necromancers sit back away from the battle and do their thing. Who is to say that Saltspite isn't doing the same? Gosh I hope that's the case.
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  • Lord_KamionLord_Kamion Registered Users Posts: 959
    Let's be real. We are all going to play with Harkon or Noctilus anyway. It's really annoying....but as long as they get those two right, I'll still have fun.

    Will just make it extra personal when I wipe out Saltspite
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,571

    Let's be real. We are all going to play with Harkon or Noctilus anyway. It's really annoying....but as long as they get those two right, I'll still have fun.

    Will just make it extra personal when I wipe out Saltspite

    As i said: my current hope is that they keep Saltspites dialogue as alivey as possible, to allow modders to make her faction into a proper living pirates one.
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 13,898
    I will probably go with either Saltspite or Harkon first.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -The "Spam" flag is not a "disagree" flag. Have a care.
    -...No, no the "Abuse" flag isn't a "disagree" flag either!
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • SbygneusSbygneus Registered Users Posts: 799

    Sbygneus said:

    I don't see the problem with Aranesa being alive. Necromancers are technicaly alive too.

    She never used Undead. She never utilized necromancy. She never was part of the Dreadfleet. She was part of Jaego Roths Great Alliance to fight the Dreadfleet.

    I by now am simply hoping that CA made her lines as undeady as possible to allow modders to change her into a living character again and make her faction and Sartosa into a living pirates paradise.
    Maybe she won't utilize necromancy or magic at all. She could probably have bonus to

    Let's be real. We are all going to play with Harkon or Noctilus anyway. It's really annoying....but as long as they get those two right, I'll still have fun.

    Will just make it extra personal when I wipe out Saltspite

    I don't agree. For me living Aranesa (even using necromancy) would be much more interesting than the rest. I also like Noctilus because I liked Dreadfleet.
  • hendo1592hendo1592 Registered Users Posts: 1,696
    I wonder if we will get reveals all week or if they will do one each day this week. I’m hoping g they didn’t give Saltspite an undead paint job- and she’s a hybrid LL with zombies replaced with living pirates but I don’t see this happening..
  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,116
    I like how some of you are calling Aranessa a nobody. Lads, this is an entire FACTION of nobodies. Honestly even if you said you were a big fan of Warhammer I wouldn't be super surprised at all if you didn't know who Noctilus or Luthor were.

    Personally I don't mind. Sartosa is an interesting start for VP too, for ME it's right in the OW so she can fight different factions immediately. My only problem with Saltspite being in game is that it is a pretty major blow to DoW chances of being in game, unless they just add Tilea and Estalia to the map now they only have one start which means at best DoW might be a race pack. But ultimately as long as it is with GW's blessing I think it's fine, easy to say she or Sartosa was cursed just before the game starts somehow.


    Also Vampiric Depth Guard are not Grave Guard reskins, they are a 16 man unit.
  • TheGuardianOfMetalTheGuardianOfMetal Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,571
    Krunch said:

    I like how some of you are calling Aranessa a nobody. Lads, this is an entire FACTION of nobodies. Honestly even if you said you were a big fan of Warhammer I wouldn't be super surprised at all if you didn't know who Noctilus or Luthor were.

    Personally I don't mind. Sartosa is an interesting start for VP too, for ME it's right in the OW so she can fight different factions immediately. My only problem with Saltspite being in game is that it is a pretty major blow to DoW chances of being in game, unless they just add Tilea and Estalia to the map now they only have one start which means at best DoW might be a race pack. But ultimately as long as it is with GW's blessing I think it's fine, easy to say she or Sartosa was cursed just before the game starts somehow.


    Also Vampiric Depth Guard are not Grave Guard reskins, they are a 16 man unit.

    Tilda and Estalia? What about the border Princes? And New World Colonies?
    Every wrong is recorded. Every slight against us, page after page, ETCHED IN BLOOD! Clan Gunnisson! Karak Eight Peaks! JOSEF BUGMAN! TOTAL WAR TROY FOR ONE YEAR EXCLUSIVELY ON THE EPIC GAMES STORE!"

    The Empire still hasn't gotten their FLC LL. We need Marius Leitdorf of Averland!

    Where is Boris Todbringer? Have you seen him? For a Middenland DLC with Boris and the Ar-Ulric!

    Queek could smell their hatred, ratcheted to a degree that even he could not evoke in their simple hearts. He stepped over the old orange-fur’s body, eager to see for himself what it was they saw. But he heard it first.
    'Waaaaaaaggh! Gorfang!'
  • KrunchKrunch Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,116

    Krunch said:

    I like how some of you are calling Aranessa a nobody. Lads, this is an entire FACTION of nobodies. Honestly even if you said you were a big fan of Warhammer I wouldn't be super surprised at all if you didn't know who Noctilus or Luthor were.

    Personally I don't mind. Sartosa is an interesting start for VP too, for ME it's right in the OW so she can fight different factions immediately. My only problem with Saltspite being in game is that it is a pretty major blow to DoW chances of being in game, unless they just add Tilea and Estalia to the map now they only have one start which means at best DoW might be a race pack. But ultimately as long as it is with GW's blessing I think it's fine, easy to say she or Sartosa was cursed just before the game starts somehow.


    Also Vampiric Depth Guard are not Grave Guard reskins, they are a 16 man unit.

    Tilda and Estalia? What about the border Princes? And New World Colonies?
    Only NWC is on the Vortex map. If Sartosa was free for the taking I could see a DoW subfaction there and one in the NWC and so could see them somehow squeezing 2 LLs elsewhere for the Vortex campaign and moving them to Tilea and another typical DoW region for ME, but I can't see there being 3 Vortex only spots for DoW, or even think there are 3 good spots to give without cutting into Araby. As such I'd say DoW is either at best going to be a race pack, which would be unfortunate.
  • NiltNilt Registered Users Posts: 31
    The LL I wanted the most with this DLC was Drekla because he had a hook hand.
  • HarkovastHarkovast Registered Users Posts: 1,868
    I wanted to play Noctilus but now I want to play Saltspite...unless they have really messed up her lore.

    She has double spikey peg legs!
    For The Lady, for Manann, for Bordeleaux!
  • RikisRikis Registered Users Posts: 1,286
    Like I mentionned in another thread, here is my take on making Saltspite work.

    My wish for Saltspite is for her to be a living LL ruling a mixed subfaction of empire/Vampire coast units. Mainly reskinned free company militia and gunners as infantry supported with sea monsters to make a living pirate faction. She would be the "Arkhan" of the vampire coast basically, being a pain to the other Vampire Coast factions like Arkhan is to the Tomb Kings. I dont actually expect this to happen but it would be pretty cool.

    As for the fourth LL I'll wait and see what s/he is. Might actually be some flamboyant Vangheist for all we know.
  • RattusXIIIRattusXIII Registered Users Posts: 205

    Love this new way of presenting info before release, and super stoked about potential two playable women that so far both look amazing! ♡♡♡

    This is why people have a problem with female LLs.

    The only options are overwriting Warhammer lore. Or creating brand new characters. Which would be annoying, but regardless of who is added they were always going to be relatively barebones.

    But being happy just because they are female, and saying they look great. When we know nothing about them...is the epitome of token female characters for the sake of it. It's the exact problem a lot of people have.

    I don't care about the gender split for characters, if a faction had four better female LL as options...I'd say go all female.

    But celebrating just because they are female, to the detriment of existing lore. Is tokenistic at best, and pandering at worst.
    Or perhaps the actual lore-person who was actually in charge of lore stuff at games work-shop has written something relevant, and they thought the character's aesthetic and theme had enough going for it to make a more varied and nuanced addition than another dude-vampire that looks like most of the other dude vampires already in game.

    This is a DLC about the Vampire Coast which involves 4LL. There's little ways to spin this in a super Lore-involved way.

    As for pandering. I mean... Yeah? Why not try to sell something to people who want it?

    "I don't care about the gender split for characters (because I'm represented in practically every games I play and altough I don't care you can be sure I'll let you know about HOW MUCH I DONT CARE)" is the epitome of having been pandered to your whole life, buddy. If these two women were boring token "female characters" i'd be annoyed just as well, but even with little information given about them so far, they already scream a lot more personality than most of the other options I had expected.

    Even as a Skaven player in both TT and in TW, I have to say this is a lot more exciting to me that that Zombie Skaven guy I probably would have touched once.

    But please tell me more about how I'm not allowed to care and look forward to the things I actually love and care about.
  • IconicIconic Registered Users Posts: 477
    So you guys know that the lore could change dramatcally from one edition to the next right? Warhammer has never been a fixed and unmutable scripture. Just view TWWH as a new edition of Warhammer and run with it.
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,575
    Honestly, Saltspite sounds like she would be a cool addition as a vampire. It would make her a tragic figure, as one of Harkons chief enemies having the curse of vampirism inflicted upon her could make for a character that toes the line between good and evil.

    Also we don’t know much about her except that she’s a kind of human mutant. Maybe being rejected by humanity would make her more sympathetic to being accepted by the Vampire Coast.


    Also are we positive we won’t see Drekla as a LL?
  • Berg_Of_The_WestBerg_Of_The_West Registered Users Posts: 528
    edited October 2018
    What?! No Vangheist?! Captain of the Shadewraith in dreadfleet?! A whole faction of ghost pirates?





  • lordreaven448lordreaven448 Registered Users Posts: 250

    What?! No Vangheist?! Captain of the Shadewraith in dreadfleet?! A whole faction of ghost pirates?





    That art work of him seems to be the current 4th outline at a different angle.
  • D3adgodsD3adgods Registered Users Posts: 62
    Just something I've thought about considering Aranesse; what if CA focused on the daughter of Manaan bit? Her roster could be filled with sea monsters and even drowned sailors from her connection to the sea without necromancy. This doesn't explain units such as deck droppers and the like, but it's an interesting idea to speculate.

    On the topic of the 4th LL; I'm going to say it's a new character and a sireen Lord at that. Based on their previous dlc we can assume CA want a full fledged caster to round out the Lord choices which none of the vampire coast lore seems to fill in. This would go hand in hand with the new lore of the deep and the full unit of sireen we see instead of the singular hero unit, which this particular Lord could enhance. Also the hair(?) Reminds me of the banshee model in WoW.

    At the very least we know Games Workshop gave it the thumbs up.
  • SchwarzhelmSchwarzhelm Registered Users Posts: 1,217
    Iconic said:

    So you guys know that the lore could change dramatcally from one edition to the next right? Warhammer has never been a fixed and unmutable scripture. Just view TWWH as a new edition of Warhammer and run with it.

    Again, it was never a new edtition before. It was (and should be) based on the already existing lore!
    Saying that "GW approved" or "we moved forward the lore" is a cheap way for CA to justify that they don't care for the lore anymore. With this they could change everything because of "progress".

    It doesn't even make sense to make her an undead leader because there are other Characters who would be far more fitting since they ARE undead.

    Why would CA use her and butcher the lore? What is the reason?
    Since her background is contrary to her new faction I guess it is only because of her looks and that is more than dissapointing.

  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 3,637
    What I don't get is why do this? You have existing lords, existing lore that people actually know. NonGorst level out of the hat things. And you have Dreadfleet that is an open source that people can go to. Why then do the rearrangement? And don't say diversity, I don't buy that. They've not cared about that beforehand, they're not going to suddenly start now. More like personal favorites of somebody there.

    And then nobody in the design team going, nah, we can't do that bud. We've got these others, they're cool to and they wont cause yet another PR debacle. People will get well on pirates.

    And they did, right till that basic reveal sucked the life out of it.
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,645
    edited October 2018

    Iconic said:

    So you guys know that the lore could change dramatcally from one edition to the next right? Warhammer has never been a fixed and unmutable scripture. Just view TWWH as a new edition of Warhammer and run with it.

    Again, it was never a new edtition before. It was (and should be) based on the already existing lore!
    Saying that "GW approved" or "we moved forward the lore" is a cheap way for CA to justify that they don't care for the lore anymore. With this they could change everything because of "progress".

    It doesn't even make sense to make her an undead leader because there are other Characters who would be far more fitting since they ARE undead.

    Why would CA use her and butcher the lore? What is the reason?
    Since her background is contrary to her new faction I guess it is only because of her looks and that is more than dissapointing.

    If they wanted a female VC that badly they could've just given them Nef. Would at least be a vamp, could just say she subverted her way to ruling Sartosa like they move the 8 peaks trio.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,575
    If people can swallow the load of feces that was the end time and accept it as “canon” and “lore progression” then they can’t complain about anything CA does with GW approval. Making Saltspite a vampire doesn’t even come close to the ridiculous bull **** GW pulled at the end
  • Commissar_GCommissar_G Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 10,645

    If people can swallow the load of feces that was the end time and accept it as “canon” and “lore progression” then they can’t complain about anything CA does with GW approval. Making Saltspite a vampire doesn’t even come close to the ridiculous bull **** GW pulled at the end

    I don't swallow that bull, I purchased no end times miniatures or AoS stuff from GW since.
    "As a sandbox game everyone, without exception, should be able to play the game exactly as they see fit and that means providing the maximum scope possible." - ~UNiOnJaCk~
  • Mr_Finley7Mr_Finley7 Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 4,575
    No

    If people can swallow the load of feces that was the end time and accept it as “canon” and “lore progression” then they can’t complain about anything CA does with GW approval. Making Saltspite a vampire doesn’t even come close to the ridiculous bull **** GW pulled at the end

    I don't swallow that bull, I purchased no end times miniatures or AoS stuff from GW since.
    No but the silent majority (AoS players) and half the people on these forums apparently do.
  • GamgeeGamgee Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,908
    So its looking like I was right about a new LL. I remember when people scoffed at the idea, but this I think was done for one very very important reason. This DLC shows that NOTHING can't be done to flesh out a faction including making new lore. So this means nearly any faction that has at least a unique theme, and has at least some basis in the fluff can be fleshed out now. I think this is fantastic as it means WH series can be almost a long term evolving style game as they add in new content for a looong time. This also means that game 3 will have a lot more interesting factions that can be fleshed out, and Kislev might get 4LL. Rejoice!

    The dreams of 4LL FIshmen faction come truer and truer with every reveal. Granted it would probably be post game 3 or even game 4 addition as a grand send off.
  • NeverBackDownNeverBackDown Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 1,850
    All this assuming and bickering over a non-confirmed shadow. Might be just a little bit to much people.
    Not even the fact we have no idea who or what mechanics are.
  • EliacTheEmeraldTeethEliacTheEmeraldTeeth Registered Users Posts: 448
    It's interesting how people complain about CA trying to shoehorn "nobodies" as lords and will destroy Saltspite lore to make her a LL. Yet people wanted Araby or Albion with even less characters or none at all, yet i can bet the same people who wanted those factions would be upset about CA making up lords and shoehorning obscure characters into it even if they had no choice, as those factions existed as a footnote or a unique DoW.
    I assure you, we are very real. And we have come for you and your realm.
  • HisShadowBGHisShadowBG Registered Users Posts: 2,583
    edited October 2018

    It's interesting how people complain about CA trying to shoehorn "nobodies" as lords and will destroy Saltspite lore to make her a LL. Yet people wanted Araby or Albion with even less characters or none at all, yet i can bet the same people who wanted those factions would be upset about CA making up lords and shoehorning obscure characters into it even if they had no choice, as those factions existed as a footnote or a unique DoW.

    Speak for yourself I don't want neither and I am not sold on v coast either
  • cat59cat59 Registered Users Posts: 466
    Personally, I'm gonna be playing Saltspite, if that is indeed her, or the 4th unknown (Presumably Original) character. Likely the 4th, as it looks like a Banshee caster, with a bladed fan of some sort, and I've always wanted to have an entire army of ghosty goos. Hopefully that character can have cairn/hexwraiths as well as the standard army, with possibly even a mortis engine, for a 'fuller' ethereal army.

    Not to mention the character, whoever it is, having seemingly a bladed fan, means they'll have to be using a lot of unique animations in melee, presumably, since no one else has one of those yet, which could be a stepping stone to Lhamian vampire lords, Neferata, or even Cathay/the Far East characters.

    I might take a look at Harkon a couple of times, because of his split-personality mechanic, but male LL/characters hardly ever catch my attention, and if they do, it's always for the wrong reasons. (Helman Ghorst is a personal favorite of mine, as an example, just because I like laughing/cackling at... I mean, with, him...)

    Either way, the LL you start with is just one army, and if you dislike the LL, you can just replace them with a generic character from turn 1-2, and never bring them back/just pretend. The characters are in, modeled, animated, Voice acted, scripted, textured, and anything else I might've forgotten, so complaining and arguing isn't going to get you anywhere in the here and now. They might take note of things for the future, but nothing short of literally no-one buying this DLC is going to change anything about it, and even then it'll likely just be seen as a failed experiment, and we'll never get non-armybook factions in any games, and the features for any future content could possibly go back to Beastmen levels of... detail...
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