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Speculation for future Races

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  • WarlockeWarlocke Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,925
    . Chaos Dwarves and Ogre Kingdoms we know, providing one evil and one neutral/good faction on release

    What?
    ò_ó
  • Ol_NessieOl_Nessie Registered Users Posts: 4,135
    Danaman said:

    There is just no way the game starts with 4 Chaos Daemons factions, but also no way the game can have as much content as the previous 2 without either dividing Daemons into 4 unique races or going further east to Cathay and Nippon. Frankly they'd have to do both given that Game 1 finished with 9 races and Game 2 will likely finish on 8. Personally I think Cathay and Nippon bring a tonne to the table. Who cares if they don't have a army book, CA literally make rosters all the time.

    No, they literally don't. Both Norsca's and Vampire Coast's rosters are heavily based on extant source material. They may invent a unit here and there to bridge a capability gap, but they don't outright create entirely original rosters. The most original thing they've done to date is one single LL. Contriving an entire race from scratch, from the ground up, will not only be costly to produce but also risky to sell. Think about the average TW:WH player; do you think they know a thing about Cathay or Nippon? I know old TT players who couldn't tell you a thing about them.

    Also, no where is it written that all 3 titles have to end their cycle with the same number of introduced races. It's also not set in stone that we are absolutely getting 8 races in WH2. Frankly, I would not be surprised at all if the only additional race we get is with the preorder bonus for WH3. I also wouldn't be surprised if WH3 only introduces the races that come with the base game. That might seem pessimistic, but I'm just managing expectations.

    Including Cathay and/or Nippon would require the third campaign map to cover twice as much territory as it would have to if it only came with Daemons, Chaos Dwarfs, Ogres, and Kislev. Just me personally, but I'd rather have a more detailed campaign of the Dark Lands, Mountains of Mourn, and Chaos Wastes than a more vague map that encompasses the fantasy equivalent of TW: 3 Kingdoms and TW: Shogun 2.
    Build a Slayer Hero and make Miners, Rangers, and Irondrakes great again! Thorek Ironbrow 2020

  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 3,902
    A lot of absolutes here really shouldn't be said as absolutes. For one thing CA was clearly at one point thinking things different and yeah they can have changed that just as easily as they have not changed.

    They said DoC will be its own race. No amalgations to that, maybe as some side faction later but DoC will get a stand alone of some sort. Possibly four, that avenue is not at all closed.

    The eastern kingdoms are a longer shot than previous long shots.

    But no matter what most of the predictors including me have been wrong before about CA's plans. So when people go it 'has to be this'. No it doesn't.
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,131
    Nyxilis said:

    A lot of absolutes here really shouldn't be said as absolutes. For one thing CA was clearly at one point thinking things different and yeah they can have changed that just as easily as they have not changed.

    They said DoC will be its own race. No amalgations to that, maybe as some side faction later but DoC will get a stand alone of some sort. Possibly four, that avenue is not at all closed.

    The eastern kingdoms are a longer shot than previous long shots.

    But no matter what most of the predictors including me have been wrong before about CA's plans. So when people go it 'has to be this'. No it doesn't.

    Right. The best we can really say is "I want this" or "I'm willing to bet we get this" but anything else is hubris.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 4,538

    The mental gymnastics some people do to justify their fav obscure races getting in is astonishing.
    How the hell is DoW a "core race" or in any way a must have? They are one of the dullest things there are.
    Why should Kislev be a core race for game 3? Reskinned Empire doesnt sell well to non nerds buying and playing the game, playing aa 4 different Chaos faction with their unique demons is far better from literally every point of view, even better adding the Ogres and the Chorfs as DLC.
    Dont get me wrong I'd buy pretty much any faction for this game except an OC faction but saying Cathay, DoW or Kislev are "must have" factions makes zero sense. You would probably love to have them in the game but they are far from must have or am I missing something here?
    Not trying to offend anyone here but when people start to consider the Halflings a real must have faction before the 4 chaos gods, ogres and chaos dwarves I kind of lose track of whats going on here.

    Anyone care to explain?

    There are only 3 major races (races with armybooks) left, DoW had an armybook back in 6th, therefore they are a contender as the 4th major race of game 3. It is not mental gymnastics it is fairly logical if you know what books have actually been released. Kislev is a pretty popular and requested faction, and woud make a lot of sense given the chaos theme of game 3, as they are the front line against chaos incursions. Niether of these factions are even remotely a reskin of Empire, at all. Monogod chaos factions would have far more similarity to each other, given most of their units would be differing themes of Chaos Warriors (not that I don't want monogods in), than Kislev or DoW does to Empire.

    And since when are the human "empire -like" factions, which are closest to the historical TW factions, the nerdy factions in a game with elves, dwarfs, goblins etc? That is baffling to me.
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 1,391

    The mental gymnastics some people do to justify their fav obscure races getting in is astonishing.
    How the hell is DoW a "core race" or in any way a must have? They are one of the dullest things there are.
    Why should Kislev be a core race for game 3? Reskinned Empire doesnt sell well to non nerds buying and playing the game, playing aa 4 different Chaos faction with their unique demons is far better from literally every point of view, even better adding the Ogres and the Chorfs as DLC.
    Dont get me wrong I'd buy pretty much any faction for this game except an OC faction but saying Cathay, DoW or Kislev are "must have" factions makes zero sense. You would probably love to have them in the game but they are far from must have or am I missing something here?
    Not trying to offend anyone here but when people start to consider the Halflings a real must have faction before the 4 chaos gods, ogres and chaos dwarves I kind of lose track of whats going on here.

    Anyone care to explain?

    ''calls DoW dull/obscure while talking about the 4 Chaos Gods''

    Sure buddy, keep dreaming. 4 chaos is as dull as you can get.
  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Registered Users Posts: 4,448
    Its probably gonna be the entire east of the warhammer world, with the Darklands, mountains of mourn, cathay and Ind, that would be around the same scope as the game 2 map


  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Registered Users Posts: 4,448

    Game 3 will start with the four diffrent chaos gods as each faction with chaos dwarfs and ogres as dlc. Cathay and nippon will never see the light of day

    That would be the most boring **** ever 😂😂😂😂


  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 4,538
    KronusX said:

    The mental gymnastics some people do to justify their fav obscure races getting in is astonishing.
    How the hell is DoW a "core race" or in any way a must have? They are one of the dullest things there are.
    Why should Kislev be a core race for game 3? Reskinned Empire doesnt sell well to non nerds buying and playing the game, playing aa 4 different Chaos faction with their unique demons is far better from literally every point of view, even better adding the Ogres and the Chorfs as DLC.
    Dont get me wrong I'd buy pretty much any faction for this game except an OC faction but saying Cathay, DoW or Kislev are "must have" factions makes zero sense. You would probably love to have them in the game but they are far from must have or am I missing something here?
    Not trying to offend anyone here but when people start to consider the Halflings a real must have faction before the 4 chaos gods, ogres and chaos dwarves I kind of lose track of whats going on here.

    Anyone care to explain?

    ''calls DoW dull/obscure while talking about the 4 Chaos Gods''

    Sure buddy, keep dreaming. 4 chaos is as dull as you can get.
    Yeah I want monogods to be implemented by the end of the series, but as 4 cores would be a disaster.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 1,811
    Guys please, talk of Far East stuff is...embarrassing.

    Game 2:

    Araby with Orc Update.
    Southern Realms (DoW as RoR) with Empire Update.

    Game 3:

    Release: Kislev, Ogres, Daemons, and Chaos Dwarves.

    Possible DLC Game 3:

    Silver Pinnacle + Nagash
    Chaos Legion Lists

  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 3,902
    If you really actually look at the map Cathay is actually pretty far from the Darklands. You have to cross the whole of the Ogre Kindgoms and some space to even get to it. Ind by comparison is just right there in the southeast and actually borders some of the major Ogre Kingdoms.
  • MarcusLiviusMarcusLivius Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 645
    We know what the combined map for game three will look like(at least as far as general geography), so if any given race does not have a reason to be on that map, then they are not likely to be added to the game.

    Order factions need to be included in the launch of Game 3, as they have tended to be more popular in TW:WH. Four chaos factions on launch would not work from a sales standpoint.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 1,811
    There is no possible release configuration that makes ANY sense, that is not Ogres, Daemons, Chaos Dwarves and Kislev.

    I've not seen a single reasonable argument made against that as the 4 races.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 3,902
    Surge_2 said:

    There is no possible release configuration that makes ANY sense, that is not Ogres, Daemons, Chaos Dwarves and Kislev.

    I've not seen a single reasonable argument made against that as the 4 races.

    Other than they'd have to change the datamined map for Kislev, not in the original plans they had, is a minor faction that they stated they had no plans to ever make before Norsca.

    There are things against it, it's not a slam dunk.
  • GerardofthetitanGerardofthetitan Registered Users Posts: 433
    edited October 2018
    Cathay and Ind over 4 Chaos Gods?! Since when? Surely not in the lore nor every TT Warhammer based game made by GW.
    However, besides some silly assumptions based on personal taste and nothing else , Ogre Kingdoms, 4 Chaos Gods AKA Monogods, Chaos Dwarfs probably Kislev, probably DoW if they are not in game2. Everything else is as possible as Amazons or Halfling.


  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,131
    Surge_2 said:

    There is no possible release configuration that makes ANY sense, that is not Ogres, Daemons, Chaos Dwarves and Kislev.

    I've not seen a single reasonable argument made against that as the 4 races.

    I actually don't expect them to include the geographical region of Cathay, even though I think it may be in as a faction. There are other options.

    I detailed one of them here.
  • ValkaarValkaar Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 2,162
    edited October 2018
    Surge_2 said:

    Guys please, talk of Far East stuff is...embarrassing.

    Game 2:

    Araby with Orc Update.
    Southern Realms (DoW as RoR) with Empire Update.

    Game 3:

    Release: Kislev, Ogres, Daemons, and Chaos Dwarves.

    Possible DLC Game 3:

    Silver Pinnacle + Nagash
    Chaos Legion Lists

    ^^This is my guess as well, but the Far East stuff could easily be done as additional Game 3 DLC on your list.

    It doesn't need to include the WHOLE Far East to include one or two of these factions. They can just be included on the fringe/border somewhere on the right hand side of the map, or stuck in like an expeditionary/invasion force.

    It's really not that far-fetched. They don't need a whole 30+ settlement continent shoe-horned into the map just to be included as a faction.
  • GoatforceGoatforce Registered Users Posts: 4,538

    Cathay and Ind over 4 Chaos Gods?! Since when? Surely not in the lore nor every TT Warhammer based game made by GW.
    However, besides some silly assumptions based on personal taste and nothing else , Ogre Kingdoms, 4 Chaos Gods AKA Monogods, Chaos Dwarfs probably Kislev, probably DoW if they are not in game2. Everything else is as possible as Amazons or Halfling.

    Well, monogods do not have armybooks, Daemons do, WoC do. CA have stated that they are going off 8th Ed armybooks, so is not at all unreasonable to think monogods won't be in. I hope they are, but they are technically no more a unique faction than Cathay (ok maybe not that much, but they were never their own factions).
  • DraculasaurusDraculasaurus Registered Users Posts: 4,131
    I don't expect them to do Monogods. I do expect them to start with four races and include a comparable number of DLC races to WHI and WHII. That means going beyond Daemons, Ogres, and Chaos Dwarfs. It means going beyond Kislev. I don't know precisely where that road leads, but I'm fairly confident we're on it.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 1,811
    Nyxilis said:

    Surge_2 said:

    There is no possible release configuration that makes ANY sense, that is not Ogres, Daemons, Chaos Dwarves and Kislev.

    I've not seen a single reasonable argument made against that as the 4 races.

    Other than they'd have to change the datamined map for Kislev, not in the original plans they had, is a minor faction that they stated they had no plans to ever make before Norsca.

    There are things against it, it's not a slam dunk.
    Its still the best option for 'we need an order race' folks. I'd be fine with just the 3 real races.
  • GodWillTellGodWillTell Registered Users Posts: 733
    • Monogods mixed with daemons, some mortals like Hell Striders/Skullcrushers as units and Champion of Khorne/Plague Sorcerer etc. as heroes or lords......and maybe beastmen like Tzaangors etc.

    • Ogre Kingdoms

    • Chaos Dawi

    • Kislev

    Outb4 the game would bomb.

    #FORGHORGON
  • AIMA_DracklorAIMA_Dracklor Registered Users Posts: 4,448

    The mental gymnastics some people do to justify their fav obscure races getting in is astonishing.
    How the hell is DoW a "core race" or in any way a must have? They are one of the dullest things there are.
    Why should Kislev be a core race for game 3? Reskinned Empire doesnt sell well to non nerds buying and playing the game, playing aa 4 different Chaos faction with their unique demons is far better from literally every point of view, even better adding the Ogres and the Chorfs as DLC.
    Dont get me wrong I'd buy pretty much any faction for this game except an OC faction but saying Cathay, DoW or Kislev are "must have" factions makes zero sense. You would probably love to have them in the game but they are far from must have or am I missing something here?
    Not trying to offend anyone here but when people start to consider the Halflings a real must have faction before the 4 chaos gods, ogres and chaos dwarves I kind of lose track of whats going on here.

    Anyone care to explain?

    Its mosty because there is not a lot of factions left, btw Kislev is in no way a Empire Reskin, they are en extremely different human Kingdom.


  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 1,391
    Goatforce said:

    KronusX said:

    The mental gymnastics some people do to justify their fav obscure races getting in is astonishing.
    How the hell is DoW a "core race" or in any way a must have? They are one of the dullest things there are.
    Why should Kislev be a core race for game 3? Reskinned Empire doesnt sell well to non nerds buying and playing the game, playing aa 4 different Chaos faction with their unique demons is far better from literally every point of view, even better adding the Ogres and the Chorfs as DLC.
    Dont get me wrong I'd buy pretty much any faction for this game except an OC faction but saying Cathay, DoW or Kislev are "must have" factions makes zero sense. You would probably love to have them in the game but they are far from must have or am I missing something here?
    Not trying to offend anyone here but when people start to consider the Halflings a real must have faction before the 4 chaos gods, ogres and chaos dwarves I kind of lose track of whats going on here.

    Anyone care to explain?

    ''calls DoW dull/obscure while talking about the 4 Chaos Gods''

    Sure buddy, keep dreaming. 4 chaos is as dull as you can get.
    Yeah I want monogods to be implemented by the end of the series, but as 4 cores would be a disaster.
    If they want to release DLCs for monogods I think it could be cool as well if each is extremely unique but yeah, 4 chaos monogods as core=their game will tank faster than an anchor dropped in the sea.
  • zrickzzrickz Registered Users Posts: 45
    Nyxilis said:

    If you really actually look at the map Cathay is actually pretty far from the Darklands. You have to cross the whole of the Ogre Kindgoms and some space to even get to it. Ind by comparison is just right there in the southeast and actually borders some of the major Ogre Kingdoms.

    They have shrunk and stretched the map in many cases already, so I would say this point is kinda mute =)
  • DanamanDanaman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 29
    @Surge_2 How are you expecting 'just the 3 real races' to even come close to the scope of Game 2?
  • SiWISiWI Senior Member Registered Users Posts: 11,051
    zrickz said:

    Nyxilis said:

    If you really actually look at the map Cathay is actually pretty far from the Darklands. You have to cross the whole of the Ogre Kindgoms and some space to even get to it. Ind by comparison is just right there in the southeast and actually borders some of the major Ogre Kingdoms.

    They have shrunk and stretched the map in many cases already, so I would say this point is kinda mute =)
    but that doesn't change the fact that the map found in the datamine was mostly identical to the one we have now in mortal empires, minus the bits east+ the recently added bits.

    And that doesn't allow for cathy or Ind.
    Ratling_Guns.gif?t=1554385892
  • DanamanDanaman Junior Member Registered Users Posts: 29
    Cathay is almost certainly going to be represented in some way as it seems very unlikely the Ogre Kingdoms campaign will not feature The Great Maw, which is practically in Cathay. Beyond that the Great Bastion would make an awesome campaign mechanic.
  • GerardofthetitanGerardofthetitan Registered Users Posts: 433
    edited October 2018
    Goatforce said:

    Cathay and Ind over 4 Chaos Gods?! Since when? Surely not in the lore nor every TT Warhammer based game made by GW.
    However, besides some silly assumptions based on personal taste and nothing else , Ogre Kingdoms, 4 Chaos Gods AKA Monogods, Chaos Dwarfs probably Kislev, probably DoW if they are not in game2. Everything else is as possible as Amazons or Halfling.

    Well, monogods do not have armybooks, Daemons do, WoC do. CA have stated that they are going off 8th Ed armybooks, so is not at all unreasonable to think monogods won't be in. I hope they are, but they are technically no more a unique faction than Cathay (ok maybe not that much, but they were never their own factions).
    Monogods got their armybooks with AoS. Meanwhile they were monos during The End Times.
    Lorewise they hates each other like mortal enemies, spending their minions and time by fighting against each other with their armies for The Great Game.
    GW choose monos for The End Times, AoS and even 40k, with some units from Forge World and Monstrum Arcanum too.
    Monogods in Warhammer universe are as important as The Empire and all the other major races.
    Chatay, Ind, Nippon are definitely far from their level of importance. Monos would have also a way bigger roster than all of them due to 8th ed. Forge World, Monstrum Arcanum, End Times, novels (like Tamurkhan's one) and other things like White Dwarfs and Dreadfleet for Vampire Coast.


  • SythropoSythropo Registered Users Posts: 18

    My money is firmly on Cathay, Kislev, Daemons, and Chaos Dwarfs for game three, with Ogres as a campaign pack.

    More likely that Ogres will be main for game three and Cathay as a campaign pack. Cathay doesn't really have one, let alone four LL in the lore or an official roster. Plus Ogres are one of the last races included in 8e that haven't yet been included in a TWW game.
  • Surge_2Surge_2 Registered Users Posts: 1,811
    Danaman said:

    @Surge_2 How are you expecting 'just the 3 real races' to even come close to the scope of Game 2?

    I'm not. We are at the tail end of the game.

    My expectation is Kislev, Ogres, Daemons, Chaos Dwarves and an updated Warriors of Chaos Roster with God Units.

    Thats more than sufficient with a mini-campaign, new Dark Lands territory, and a finalized (yes, finalized) Grand Campaign Map.

    People downplay Kislev, but it could easily have more going for it than Vampire Coast, and will easily be a fully realized faction.

    Thats on par roughly, with Game 2 races.

    You then have DLC like I listed, and an eventual inclusion of Nagash.

    But make no mistake we are AT THE END OF THE GAME. The vast vast majority is done and dusted, and just like Baldur's Gate ended with Throne of Bhaal, which was strictly inferior to Baldurs Gate 2, there is only so much content for CA to add.

    Kislev
    Daemons
    Ogres
    Chaos Dwarves.

    Thats it folks.
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