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My guess on how Warhammer 3 will be and also the Plot for the Campaign

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Comments

  • ScreamimgEnvyScreamimgEnvy Registered Users Posts: 355
    Arsenic said:

    To me it's looking a lot more like Nagash and N'Kari fighting it out over something or other as the main theme.

    Makes me wonder if the Undead-haters are going to be tearing their hair out over a faction in Game 3 comprised of Nagash, Neferata and The Nameless (and some other bugger whose name begins with N!).

    A bunch of undead-haters can't do anything against the fact that hundreds of thousands, if not millions, people likes undead and will buy it, just like with Tomb Kings and Vampire Coast.

    Nagash leading their mortarchs? I love the idea! And it seems really possible now, after all the hints.
    Team Monogods - Team Nurgle

  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 1,390
    Tayvar said:

    The ideal for game 3 is

    Demons of Chaos
    Ogre Kingdoms
    Chaos Dwarfs
    Kislev and/or Cathay, if DoW isn't in game 2 change this to Kislev and/or DoW.

    That would follow the trend of game 1 and 2, providing good and evil races to play as. They can then do whatever minor races they so desire as DLC, be it monogods or some other races.

    Cathay who barely has any lore over a Independent Army of Nurgle? I don't see what so ideal about it, the Ogre Kingdoms and the Chaos Dwarfs could be added as a DLCs for Game 3. Almost no one care about the whole "good and evil" thing, the major 'good factions' are already in the combined map.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Nurgle
    ''Almost no one care about the whole ''good and evil'' thing ''

    This is not true since the majority of players played Empire/Hes.

    That usually means that they do care.

    Cathay may barely have any lore, but so did Vamp coast and they went ahead and butchered it (decided to randomly turn another character undead and add a CA custom lord) so at this point I am sure they could invent some LLs for Cathay as well.


  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,081
    KronusX said:

    Tayvar said:

    The ideal for game 3 is

    Demons of Chaos
    Ogre Kingdoms
    Chaos Dwarfs
    Kislev and/or Cathay, if DoW isn't in game 2 change this to Kislev and/or DoW.

    That would follow the trend of game 1 and 2, providing good and evil races to play as. They can then do whatever minor races they so desire as DLC, be it monogods or some other races.

    Cathay who barely has any lore over a Independent Army of Nurgle? I don't see what so ideal about it, the Ogre Kingdoms and the Chaos Dwarfs could be added as a DLCs for Game 3. Almost no one care about the whole "good and evil" thing, the major 'good factions' are already in the combined map.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Nurgle
    ''Almost no one care about the whole ''good and evil'' thing ''

    This is not true since the majority of players played Empire/Hes.

    That usually means that they do care.

    Cathay may barely have any lore, but so did Vamp Coast and they went ahead and butchered it (decided to randomly turn another character undead and add a CA custom lord) so at this point I am sure they could invent some LLs for Cathay as well.
    Then how do you explain the fact that the Tomb Kings and the Vampire Coast DLCs had sold a lot of copies? if majority of players are playing just with Empire? Cathay's Official Roster is closer to the Amazons Roster than to the Vamp Coast Roster, and you saw what happen to the formerly human city of Sartosa.
  • ScreamimgEnvyScreamimgEnvy Registered Users Posts: 355
    The good vs evil means nothing when millions of players buyed DLC about evil and neutral races.
    If people plays mostly good races this doesn't mean they won't buy evil races. And Norsca, Coast and Tomb Kings proved that. Global top sellers.
    Team Monogods - Team Nurgle

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 20,534
    Tayvar said:

    KronusX said:

    In this case I have a better idea so everyone is satisfied. Game 3 should have Sun Elves, Winter elves, Chaos elves and Halfling elves. All types of elves for every need, I don't see why anyone would disagree with it :D.

    I kind of want to see a Halflings Elf now....

    Joke aside four of any one type of race makes for a bad core. With game 3 monogods there would be 6 or 5 Chaos races. It's a lot, and because it means a severe lack of good races they prevent themselves from shining or standing out.
    Where is the problem? CA gave us Norsca, an evil race.
    CA gave us Vampire Coast, another evil race.
    CA gave us Tomb Kings, a neutral race.

    These 3 races are all top sellers basing on Steam, regardless they are not good races. The opinions of 4 or 5 users in this forum =/= all the Total War: Warhammer players.
    And i can't see why having Monogods would be a problem for the future good races. The 3 race/campaign packs are 2 evil and 1 neutral. 2 of them are undead. Is the game dead because of this?
    Nothing stops CA to add a lot of good races in the future. Surely the Monogods won't stop them to do that.
    We have still 2 DLC and they might be all good races.
    Yes, we've had 2 undead DLC in a row and people are complaining. Imagine if it was nothing but Chaos, ick.

    Game 3 only has 2 real options (excluding DoW) for good races, that is Kislev and Cathay. Norsca was a pre-order DLC, so it's not fair whatsoever to claim it on its own sold well because it didn't.

    Monogods could be done as DLC, but as cores they're just boring.
    Cathay is not much of a opinion, a the Great Game storyline would work with Monogods Armies.
    Do you mean option? And the monogod storyline doesn't work, it's evil vs evil vs evil vs evil with no nuance.
    Malakai is the best choice for a Dwarf LP. Give us Slayer lords so we may form a Slayer host and revel in our destruction!
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,081

    Tayvar said:

    KronusX said:

    In this case I have a better idea so everyone is satisfied. Game 3 should have Sun Elves, Winter elves, Chaos elves and Halfling elves. All types of elves for every need, I don't see why anyone would disagree with it :D.

    I kind of want to see a Halflings Elf now....

    Joke aside four of any one type of race makes for a bad core. With game 3 monogods there would be 6 or 5 Chaos races. It's a lot, and because it means a severe lack of good races they prevent themselves from shining or standing out.
    Where is the problem? CA gave us Norsca, an evil race.
    CA gave us Vampire Coast, another evil race.
    CA gave us Tomb Kings, a neutral race.

    These 3 races are all top sellers basing on Steam, regardless they are not good races. The opinions of 4 or 5 users in this forum =/= all the Total War: Warhammer players.
    And i can't see why having Monogods would be a problem for the future good races. The 3 race/campaign packs are 2 evil and 1 neutral. 2 of them are undead. Is the game dead because of this?
    Nothing stops CA to add a lot of good races in the future. Surely the Monogods won't stop them to do that.
    We have still 2 DLC and they might be all good races.
    Yes, we've had 2 undead DLC in a row and people are complaining. Imagine if it was nothing but Chaos, ick.

    Game 3 only has 2 real options (excluding DoW) for good races, that is Kislev and Cathay. Norsca was a pre-order DLC, so it's not fair whatsoever to claim it on its own sold well because it didn't.

    Monogods could be done as DLC, but as cores they're just boring.
    Cathay is not much of a opinion, a the Great Game storyline would work with Monogods Armies.
    Do you mean option? And the monogod storyline doesn't work, it's evil vs evil vs evil vs evil with no nuance.
    Just because you think that 'evil Is one big, happy family' not means that it's the case in Warhammer.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 20,534

    KronusX said:

    In this case I have a better idea so everyone is satisfied. Game 3 should have Sun Elves, Winter elves, Chaos elves and Halfling elves. All types of elves for every need, I don't see why anyone would disagree with it :D.

    I kind of want to see a Halflings Elf now....

    Joke aside four of any one type of race makes for a bad core. With game 3 monogods there would be 6 or 5 Chaos races. It's a lot, and because it means a severe lack of good races they prevent themselves from shining or standing out.
    Where is the problem? CA gave us Norsca, an evil race.
    CA gave us Vampire Coast, another evil race.
    CA gave us Tomb Kings, a neutral race.

    These 3 races are all top sellers basing on Steam, regardless they are not good races. The opinions of 4 or 5 users in this forum =/= all the Total War: Warhammer players.
    And i can't see why having Monogods would be a problem for the future good races. The 3 race/campaign packs are 2 evil and 1 neutral. 2 of them are undead. Is the game dead because of this?
    Nothing stops CA to add a lot of good races in the future. Surely the Monogods won't stop them to do that.
    We have still 2 DLC and they might be all good races.
    Yes, we've had 2 undead DLC in a row and people are complaining. Imagine if it was nothing but Chaos, ick.

    Game 3 only has 2 real options (excluding DoW) for good races, that is Kislev and Cathay. Norsca was a pre-order DLC, so it's not fair whatsoever to claim it on its own sold well because it didn't.

    Monogods could be done as DLC, but as cores they're just boring.
    A bunch of biased people =/= Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings being global top sellers.
    Same with Chaos. A bunch of biased people =/= every single player in the world.
    CA listen the world. Not a small group of people. Vampire Coast and Norsca proved it. CA follow the success of the game, not 5 biased users, unless these users will pay the same amount of money of millions of players.

    Everyone here is biased, it's how opinion works.

    Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings are undead races, not chaos Races. If CA follow your logic then game 3 will be all about the undead, because according to you those have done well, while obviously Chaos is the least popular of all types of race.

    That's not my logic though. My logic is simple; the most played races of game 1 and 2 are the Empire and the High Elves. Human or human looking good races. The least played of these two are the evil races. Therefore game 3 needs a mix. Without that it relies on the idea that the least played type of race is on its own enough to hold up an entire game. I find that illogical.

    Tomb Kings are also a neutral race, which would back my point that game 3 needs a mix of races good and evil.
    Malakai is the best choice for a Dwarf LP. Give us Slayer lords so we may form a Slayer host and revel in our destruction!
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 20,534
    Tayvar said:

    Tayvar said:

    KronusX said:

    In this case I have a better idea so everyone is satisfied. Game 3 should have Sun Elves, Winter elves, Chaos elves and Halfling elves. All types of elves for every need, I don't see why anyone would disagree with it :D.

    I kind of want to see a Halflings Elf now....

    Joke aside four of any one type of race makes for a bad core. With game 3 monogods there would be 6 or 5 Chaos races. It's a lot, and because it means a severe lack of good races they prevent themselves from shining or standing out.
    Where is the problem? CA gave us Norsca, an evil race.
    CA gave us Vampire Coast, another evil race.
    CA gave us Tomb Kings, a neutral race.

    These 3 races are all top sellers basing on Steam, regardless they are not good races. The opinions of 4 or 5 users in this forum =/= all the Total War: Warhammer players.
    And i can't see why having Monogods would be a problem for the future good races. The 3 race/campaign packs are 2 evil and 1 neutral. 2 of them are undead. Is the game dead because of this?
    Nothing stops CA to add a lot of good races in the future. Surely the Monogods won't stop them to do that.
    We have still 2 DLC and they might be all good races.
    Yes, we've had 2 undead DLC in a row and people are complaining. Imagine if it was nothing but Chaos, ick.

    Game 3 only has 2 real options (excluding DoW) for good races, that is Kislev and Cathay. Norsca was a pre-order DLC, so it's not fair whatsoever to claim it on its own sold well because it didn't.

    Monogods could be done as DLC, but as cores they're just boring.
    Cathay is not much of a opinion, a the Great Game storyline would work with Monogods Armies.
    Do you mean option? And the monogod storyline doesn't work, it's evil vs evil vs evil vs evil with no nuance.
    Just because you think that 'evil Is one big, happy family' not means that it's the case in Warhammer.
    Please show me the quote where I said that.

    What I said is "it's evil vs evil vs evil vs evil with no nuance" which is absolutely true. Warhammer is not complex storytelling, and the gods themselves are not complex, there's no nuance, they are straight evil. You could make a story out of it, but not a good one. There's no foil, there's just a bunch of antagonists competing to be the biggest antagonist.
    Malakai is the best choice for a Dwarf LP. Give us Slayer lords so we may form a Slayer host and revel in our destruction!
  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 1,390
    Tayvar said:

    KronusX said:

    Tayvar said:

    The ideal for game 3 is

    Demons of Chaos
    Ogre Kingdoms
    Chaos Dwarfs
    Kislev and/or Cathay, if DoW isn't in game 2 change this to Kislev and/or DoW.

    That would follow the trend of game 1 and 2, providing good and evil races to play as. They can then do whatever minor races they so desire as DLC, be it monogods or some other races.

    Cathay who barely has any lore over a Independent Army of Nurgle? I don't see what so ideal about it, the Ogre Kingdoms and the Chaos Dwarfs could be added as a DLCs for Game 3. Almost no one care about the whole "good and evil" thing, the major 'good factions' are already in the combined map.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Nurgle
    ''Almost no one care about the whole ''good and evil'' thing ''

    This is not true since the majority of players played Empire/Hes.

    That usually means that they do care.

    Cathay may barely have any lore, but so did Vamp Coast and they went ahead and butchered it (decided to randomly turn another character undead and add a CA custom lord) so at this point I am sure they could invent some LLs for Cathay as well.
    Then how do you explain the fact that the Tomb Kings and the Vampire Coast DLCs had sold a lot of copies? if majority of players are playing just with Empire? Cathay's Official Roster is closer to the Amazons Roster than to the Vamp Coast Roster, and you saw what happen to the formerly human city of Sartosa.
    Because there is no other DLC left? The whole idea is silly of ''look Vcoast sold well! That's proof!''. What are you comparing Vcoast with? Which other ''Order faction'' ? On game 2 we cannot compare since both factions are undead neutral factions .

    The only factions that could be compared would be Beastmen and WEs and one of them is mixed, the other is mostly positive, but even those are from game 1 when they had a different model.

    On the other hand if they released say DoW with good mechanics then we could make a comparison based on the number of copies sold versus TK or Vcoast.
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,081

    KronusX said:

    In this case I have a better idea so everyone is satisfied. Game 3 should have Sun Elves, Winter elves, Chaos elves and Halfling elves. All types of elves for every need, I don't see why anyone would disagree with it :D.

    I kind of want to see a Halflings Elf now....

    Joke aside four of any one type of race makes for a bad core. With game 3 monogods there would be 6 or 5 Chaos races. It's a lot, and because it means a severe lack of good races they prevent themselves from shining or standing out.
    Where is the problem? CA gave us Norsca, an evil race.
    CA gave us Vampire Coast, another evil race.
    CA gave us Tomb Kings, a neutral race.

    These 3 races are all top sellers basing on Steam, regardless they are not good races. The opinions of 4 or 5 users in this forum =/= all the Total War: Warhammer players.
    And i can't see why having Monogods would be a problem for the future good races. The 3 race/campaign packs are 2 evil and 1 neutral. 2 of them are undead. Is the game dead because of this?
    Nothing stops CA to add a lot of good races in the future. Surely the Monogods won't stop them to do that.
    We have still 2 DLC and they might be all good races.
    Yes, we've had 2 undead DLC in a row and people are complaining. Imagine if it was nothing but Chaos, ick.

    Game 3 only has 2 real options (excluding DoW) for good races, that is Kislev and Cathay. Norsca was a pre-order DLC, so it's not fair whatsoever to claim it on its own sold well because it didn't.

    Monogods could be done as DLC, but as cores they're just boring.
    A bunch of biased people =/= Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings being global top sellers.
    Same with Chaos. A bunch of biased people =/= every single player in the world.
    CA listen the world. Not a small group of people. Vampire Coast and Norsca proved it. CA follow the success of the game, not 5 biased users, unless these users will pay the same amount of money of millions of players.

    Everyone here is biased, it's how opinion works.

    Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings are undead races, not chaos Races. If CA follow your logic then game 3 will be all about the undead, because according to you those have done well, while obviously Chaos is the least popular of all types of race.

    That's not my logic though. My logic is simple; the most played races of game 1 and 2 are the Empire and the High Elves. Human or human looking good races. The least played of these two are the evil races. Therefore game 3 needs a mix. Without that it relies on the idea that the least played type of race is on its own enough to hold up an entire game. I find that illogical.

    Tomb Kings are also a neutral race, which would back my point that game 3 needs a mix of races good and evil.
    Empire and High Elves are already in the game, and Ogre Kingdoms and Chaos Dwarfs are not good races, GW had never cared about having a lot of good factions, that's why Cathay is barely having any lore, while the Chaos Gods forces have a lot of lore and models.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 14,205
    Alright folks.

    I should be making breakfast right now, but instead I just had to pop in and see how things were going here. They were not going well. They involved the on topic, the off topic, and the abusive. This here forum is only big enough for the one of those... and its the on topic stuff that isn't abusive. Just to be clear.

    I frankly should have closed this discussion. Instead I went through it and deleted posts and gave warnings so you could all still have a little chat. You're welcome.

    Here is some advice: Do not call people obtuse. Do not insult the intelligence of other posters. Don't say that they have bad taste just because they disagree with you. Stop false flagging. And yes, when you false flag I Know Who You Are. Oh, and calling people crybabies is not respectful either. Talking about in circles but really directing your comments at one individual to suggest they are childish? Still not respectful. So. Before posting anything when you are angry at someone, stop and consider if maybe what you are posting will not meet the Forum Terms and Conditions.

    You can find the Terms and Conditions in my signature.
    -Forum Terms and Conditions: https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/172193/forum-terms-and-conditions#latest
    -Using all caps is the equivalent of shouting. Please don't.
    -The "Spam" flag is not a "disagree" flag. Have a care.
    -...No, no the "Abuse" flag isn't a "disagree" flag either!
    -5.7 Summon a moderator if someone seems to be out of line, or use the report button. Do NOT become another party to misbehaviour
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 20,534
    @Tayvar Cathay, Kislev, and DoW are good races. Whether or not GW cared about good races doesn't matter, the fact is that the TWW fanbase does.
    Malakai is the best choice for a Dwarf LP. Give us Slayer lords so we may form a Slayer host and revel in our destruction!
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 20,534
    KronusX said:

    Tayvar said:

    KronusX said:

    Tayvar said:

    The ideal for game 3 is

    Demons of Chaos
    Ogre Kingdoms
    Chaos Dwarfs
    Kislev and/or Cathay, if DoW isn't in game 2 change this to Kislev and/or DoW.

    That would follow the trend of game 1 and 2, providing good and evil races to play as. They can then do whatever minor races they so desire as DLC, be it monogods or some other races.

    Cathay who barely has any lore over a Independent Army of Nurgle? I don't see what so ideal about it, the Ogre Kingdoms and the Chaos Dwarfs could be added as a DLCs for Game 3. Almost no one care about the whole "good and evil" thing, the major 'good factions' are already in the combined map.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Nurgle
    ''Almost no one care about the whole ''good and evil'' thing ''

    This is not true since the majority of players played Empire/Hes.

    That usually means that they do care.

    Cathay may barely have any lore, but so did Vamp Coast and they went ahead and butchered it (decided to randomly turn another character undead and add a CA custom lord) so at this point I am sure they could invent some LLs for Cathay as well.
    Then how do you explain the fact that the Tomb Kings and the Vampire Coast DLCs had sold a lot of copies? if majority of players are playing just with Empire? Cathay's Official Roster is closer to the Amazons Roster than to the Vamp Coast Roster, and you saw what happen to the formerly human city of Sartosa.
    Because there is no other DLC left? The whole idea is silly of ''look Vcoast sold well! That's proof!''. What are you comparing Vcoast with? Which other ''Order faction'' ? On game 2 we cannot compare since both factions are undead neutral factions .

    The only factions that could be compared would be Beastmen and WEs and one of them is mixed, the other is mostly positive, but even those are from game 1 when they had a different model.

    On the other hand if they released say DoW with good mechanics then we could make a comparison based on the number of copies sold versus TK or Vcoast.
    I'm just going to point out we don't know the copies sold, or how successful any of these DLC's were. We can absolutely guess at it, but we can't say for certain because we don't have the numbers, nor know anything CA's internal metrics.
    Malakai is the best choice for a Dwarf LP. Give us Slayer lords so we may form a Slayer host and revel in our destruction!
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,081
    edited November 2018
    @Vanilla_Gorilla Cathay barely has any lore, and lore and models counts for more than goodness.
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 14,205
    It is known that of the base factions for both games, the most played faction is the good faction. Empire or High Elves. This does seem to be a point against having a Realm of Chaos Vortex style campaign as it removes the option for good factions or, indeed, anything not Daemons.

    But are the "good" factions so popular because they're good? Or because they're balanced and familiar? Empire are your average dudes with pointy sticks and guns. High Elves are spears and archers... and magic and dragons but still, they're neither mad scientist rats nor dinosaurs riding dinosaurs.

    So it is still hard to be sure.
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  • Elder_MolochElder_Moloch Registered Users Posts: 1,799
    Arsenic said:

    To me it's looking a lot more like Nagash and N'Kari fighting it out over something or other as the main theme.

    Makes me wonder if the Undead-haters are going to be tearing their hair out over a faction in Game 3 comprised of Nagash, Neferata and The Nameless (and some other bugger whose name begins with N!).

    Tbh, I wonder, if Nameless would be implemented would he be with Undead or with Daemons of Chaos/Warriors of Chaos. Based on Cylostra Epilogue he seems like separate player from Nagash, but who knows.
    ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 20,534
    edited November 2018
    Tayvar said:

    @Vanilla_Gorilla Cathay barely has any lore, and lore and models counts for more than goodness.

    And? If lore and models count so much then why is the VC2 such a successful DLC according to you? The VC2 didn't have models on the TT and barely any lore, yet you've said its been a success.

    From what I can see what matters most is whether or not a race is good and whether or not it looks human, with other factors following behind those two.
    Malakai is the best choice for a Dwarf LP. Give us Slayer lords so we may form a Slayer host and revel in our destruction!
  • CanuoveaCanuovea Registered Users, Moderators Posts: 14,205

    Tayvar said:

    @Vanilla_Gorilla Cathay barely has any lore, and lore and models counts for more than goodness.

    And? If lore and models count so much then why is the VC2 such a successful DLC according to you? The VC2 didn't have models on the TT and barely any lore, yet you've said its been a success.

    From what I can see what matters most is whether or not a race is good and whether or not it looks human, with other factors following behind those two.
    Admittedly, the Vampire Coast did have rules, and I think they had some models. But they definitely had rules. Cathay does not. Though, I don't think they could surprise me anymore as I practically expect they could do anything.
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  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,081
    edited November 2018

    Tayvar said:

    @Vanilla_Gorilla Cathay barely has any lore, and lore and models counts for more than goodness.

    And? If lore and models count so much then why is the VC2 such a successful DLC according to you? The VC2 didn't have models on the TT and barely any lore, yet you've said its been a success.

    From what I can see what matters most is whether or not a race is good and whether or not it looks human, with other factors following behind those two.
    The Vampire Coast's lore edge is why Vampire Coast got fleshed out while Sartosa got overrun.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 20,534
    Canuovea said:

    Tayvar said:

    @Vanilla_Gorilla Cathay barely has any lore, and lore and models counts for more than goodness.

    And? If lore and models count so much then why is the VC2 such a successful DLC according to you? The VC2 didn't have models on the TT and barely any lore, yet you've said its been a success.

    From what I can see what matters most is whether or not a race is good and whether or not it looks human, with other factors following behind those two.
    Admittedly, the Vampire Coast did have rules, and I think they had some models. But they definitely had rules. Cathay does not. Though, I don't think they could surprise me anymore as I practically expect they could do anything.
    As far as I recall they just had a White Dwarf list, with entirely custom models. They certainly never had a proper army list. It's definitely far beyond what Cathay has, but if they can do a list with as little lore and no models as VC2 then *shrug* why not? Hell, they even made up a LL for this one. And if we get Araby they'll probably make up 2 more LL and potentially more units.

    To my mind the success of the VC2 makes possible the inclusion of properly minor races whereas before I thought it'd have to be Monogods for DLC because there's nothing else that qualifies, now the standard has changed.
    Malakai is the best choice for a Dwarf LP. Give us Slayer lords so we may form a Slayer host and revel in our destruction!
  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,081

    Canuovea said:

    Tayvar said:

    @Vanilla_Gorilla Cathay barely has any lore, and lore and models counts for more than goodness.

    And? If lore and models count so much then why is the VC2 such a successful DLC according to you? The VC2 didn't have models on the TT and barely any lore, yet you've said its been a success.

    From what I can see what matters most is whether or not a race is good and whether or not it looks human, with other factors following behind those two.
    Admittedly, the Vampire Coast did have rules, and I think they had some models. But they definitely had rules. Cathay does not. Though, I don't think they could surprise me anymore as I practically expect they could do anything.
    As far as I recall they just had a White Dwarf list, with entirely custom models. They certainly never had a proper army list. It's definitely far beyond what Cathay has, but if they can do a list with as little lore and no models as VC2 then *shrug* why not? Hell, they even made up a LL for this one. And if we get Araby they'll probably make up 2 more LL and potentially more units.

    To my mind the success of the VC2 makes possible the inclusion of properly minor races whereas before I thought it'd have to be Monogods for DLC because there's nothing else that qualifies, now the standard has changed.
    The standard didn't changed for Sartosa, and Cathay is also so easy to not include in the map.
  • ArsenicArsenic Registered Users Posts: 5,724


    Tbh, I wonder, if Nameless would be implemented would he be with Undead or with Daemons of Chaos/Warriors of Chaos. Based on Cylostra Epilogue he seems like separate player from Nagash, but who knows.

    Well, assuming that wasn't just an Easter Egg, and is actually foreshadowing something..

    I'd expect an ethereal caster allied to the Undead I think, judging by him seeking out Cylostra, and using a phantom to do so.

    But as you say there do seem tweaks to him, he not only seems to be acting independently, but he's aware of who he is, which in the End Times he wasn't.

    Do hope it's not Nagash confederating everyone and The Empire Offices reworked as Mortarchs, that'd be a bit dull.

    "Ours is a world of fleeting glory. But it is glory, nonetheless."
  • ScreamimgEnvyScreamimgEnvy Registered Users Posts: 355

    KronusX said:

    In this case I have a better idea so everyone is satisfied. Game 3 should have Sun Elves, Winter elves, Chaos elves and Halfling elves. All types of elves for every need, I don't see why anyone would disagree with it :D.

    I kind of want to see a Halflings Elf now....

    Joke aside four of any one type of race makes for a bad core. With game 3 monogods there would be 6 or 5 Chaos races. It's a lot, and because it means a severe lack of good races they prevent themselves from shining or standing out.
    Where is the problem? CA gave us Norsca, an evil race.
    CA gave us Vampire Coast, another evil race.
    CA gave us Tomb Kings, a neutral race.

    These 3 races are all top sellers basing on Steam, regardless they are not good races. The opinions of 4 or 5 users in this forum =/= all the Total War: Warhammer players.
    And i can't see why having Monogods would be a problem for the future good races. The 3 race/campaign packs are 2 evil and 1 neutral. 2 of them are undead. Is the game dead because of this?
    Nothing stops CA to add a lot of good races in the future. Surely the Monogods won't stop them to do that.
    We have still 2 DLC and they might be all good races.
    Yes, we've had 2 undead DLC in a row and people are complaining. Imagine if it was nothing but Chaos, ick.

    Game 3 only has 2 real options (excluding DoW) for good races, that is Kislev and Cathay. Norsca was a pre-order DLC, so it's not fair whatsoever to claim it on its own sold well because it didn't.

    Monogods could be done as DLC, but as cores they're just boring.
    A bunch of biased people =/= Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings being global top sellers.
    Same with Chaos. A bunch of biased people =/= every single player in the world.
    CA listen the world. Not a small group of people. Vampire Coast and Norsca proved it. CA follow the success of the game, not 5 biased users, unless these users will pay the same amount of money of millions of players.

    Everyone here is biased, it's how opinion works.

    Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings are undead races, not chaos Races. If CA follow your logic then game 3 will be all about the undead, because according to you those have done well, while obviously Chaos is the least popular of all types of race.

    That's not my logic though. My logic is simple; the most played races of game 1 and 2 are the Empire and the High Elves. Human or human looking good races. The least played of these two are the evil races. Therefore game 3 needs a mix. Without that it relies on the idea that the least played type of race is on its own enough to hold up an entire game. I find that illogical.

    Tomb Kings are also a neutral race, which would back my point that game 3 needs a mix of races good and evil.
    I already told you that this popularity stuff is pointless. Good races are the most played and yet millions of people didn't care about having evil races, in fact Norsca, Tomb Kings and Coast are top sellers regardless they are not good races.

    The mixed races in Warhammer 3 is fine with me, but saying nobody will buy a game with mostly evil races and undead, like Monogods, is wrong. Coast, Norsca, Coast are global top sellers and they are not good races.
    Saying they won't sell is blatantly false.
    Team Monogods - Team Nurgle

  • KronusXKronusX Registered Users Posts: 1,390
    edited November 2018

    KronusX said:

    Tayvar said:

    KronusX said:

    Tayvar said:

    The ideal for game 3 is

    Demons of Chaos
    Ogre Kingdoms
    Chaos Dwarfs
    Kislev and/or Cathay, if DoW isn't in game 2 change this to Kislev and/or DoW.

    That would follow the trend of game 1 and 2, providing good and evil races to play as. They can then do whatever minor races they so desire as DLC, be it monogods or some other races.

    Cathay who barely has any lore over a Independent Army of Nurgle? I don't see what so ideal about it, the Ogre Kingdoms and the Chaos Dwarfs could be added as a DLCs for Game 3. Almost no one care about the whole "good and evil" thing, the major 'good factions' are already in the combined map.

    https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Nurgle
    ''Almost no one care about the whole ''good and evil'' thing ''

    This is not true since the majority of players played Empire/Hes.

    That usually means that they do care.

    Cathay may barely have any lore, but so did Vamp Coast and they went ahead and butchered it (decided to randomly turn another character undead and add a CA custom lord) so at this point I am sure they could invent some LLs for Cathay as well.
    Then how do you explain the fact that the Tomb Kings and the Vampire Coast DLCs had sold a lot of copies? if majority of players are playing just with Empire? Cathay's Official Roster is closer to the Amazons Roster than to the Vamp Coast Roster, and you saw what happen to the formerly human city of Sartosa.
    Because there is no other DLC left? The whole idea is silly of ''look Vcoast sold well! That's proof!''. What are you comparing Vcoast with? Which other ''Order faction'' ? On game 2 we cannot compare since both factions are undead neutral factions .

    The only factions that could be compared would be Beastmen and WEs and one of them is mixed, the other is mostly positive, but even those are from game 1 when they had a different model.

    On the other hand if they released say DoW with good mechanics then we could make a comparison based on the number of copies sold versus TK or Vcoast.
    I'm just going to point out we don't know the copies sold, or how successful any of these DLC's were. We can absolutely guess at it, but we can't say for certain because we don't have the numbers, nor know anything CA's internal metrics.
    Eh,
    Canuovea said:

    It is known that of the base factions for both games, the most played faction is the good faction. Empire or High Elves. This does seem to be a point against having a Realm of Chaos Vortex style campaign as it removes the option for good factions or, indeed, anything not Daemons.

    But are the "good" factions so popular because they're good? Or because they're balanced and familiar? Empire are your average dudes with pointy sticks and guns. High Elves are spears and archers... and magic and dragons but still, they're neither mad scientist rats nor dinosaurs riding dinosaurs.

    So it is still hard to be sure.

    It could also have to do with RP issues. Let's say you play Empire. You can ally with the good factions, you can attempt to ally with the bad factions or just stay on your side and grow.

    Now let's think of Chaos warriors faction. You are a horde, your goal is to destroy pretty much everything. You cannot ally , but rather only subjugate Norsca. You simply cannot role-play Chaos faction because their goal any way you put it is complete destruction.

    Tzeech, Nurgle, whichever Chaos god you want to pick, all are evil and all would be similar. Even elven-wise, to some degree there is major differences.

    KronusX said:

    In this case I have a better idea so everyone is satisfied. Game 3 should have Sun Elves, Winter elves, Chaos elves and Halfling elves. All types of elves for every need, I don't see why anyone would disagree with it :D.

    I kind of want to see a Halflings Elf now....

    Joke aside four of any one type of race makes for a bad core. With game 3 monogods there would be 6 or 5 Chaos races. It's a lot, and because it means a severe lack of good races they prevent themselves from shining or standing out.
    Where is the problem? CA gave us Norsca, an evil race.
    CA gave us Vampire Coast, another evil race.
    CA gave us Tomb Kings, a neutral race.

    These 3 races are all top sellers basing on Steam, regardless they are not good races. The opinions of 4 or 5 users in this forum =/= all the Total War: Warhammer players.
    And i can't see why having Monogods would be a problem for the future good races. The 3 race/campaign packs are 2 evil and 1 neutral. 2 of them are undead. Is the game dead because of this?
    Nothing stops CA to add a lot of good races in the future. Surely the Monogods won't stop them to do that.
    We have still 2 DLC and they might be all good races.
    Yes, we've had 2 undead DLC in a row and people are complaining. Imagine if it was nothing but Chaos, ick.

    Game 3 only has 2 real options (excluding DoW) for good races, that is Kislev and Cathay. Norsca was a pre-order DLC, so it's not fair whatsoever to claim it on its own sold well because it didn't.

    Monogods could be done as DLC, but as cores they're just boring.
    A bunch of biased people =/= Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings being global top sellers.
    Same with Chaos. A bunch of biased people =/= every single player in the world.
    CA listen the world. Not a small group of people. Vampire Coast and Norsca proved it. CA follow the success of the game, not 5 biased users, unless these users will pay the same amount of money of millions of players.

    Everyone here is biased, it's how opinion works.

    Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings are undead races, not chaos Races. If CA follow your logic then game 3 will be all about the undead, because according to you those have done well, while obviously Chaos is the least popular of all types of race.

    That's not my logic though. My logic is simple; the most played races of game 1 and 2 are the Empire and the High Elves. Human or human looking good races. The least played of these two are the evil races. Therefore game 3 needs a mix. Without that it relies on the idea that the least played type of race is on its own enough to hold up an entire game. I find that illogical.

    Tomb Kings are also a neutral race, which would back my point that game 3 needs a mix of races good and evil.
    I already told you that this popularity stuff is pointless. Good races are the most played and yet millions of people didn't care about having evil races, in fact Norsca, Tomb Kings and Coast are top sellers regardless they are not good races.

    The mixed races in Warhammer 3 is fine with me, but saying nobody will buy a game with mostly evil races and undead, like Monogods, is wrong. Coast, Norsca, Coast are global top sellers and they are not good races.
    Saying they won't sell is blatantly false.
    Norsca, Vcoast and Tomb Kings are DLCs, not games. Any numbers report to back up the ''millions of people'' argument? I see it thrown around but nothing showing data.



  • TayvarTayvar Registered Users Posts: 12,081
    KronusX said:

    Canuovea said:

    It is known that of the base factions for both games, the most played faction is the good faction. Empire or High Elves. This does seem to be a point against having a Realm of Chaos Vortex style campaign as it removes the option for good factions or, indeed, anything not Daemons.

    But are the "good" factions so popular because they're good? Or because they're balanced and familiar? Empire are your average dudes with pointy sticks and guns. High Elves are spears and archers... and magic and dragons but still, they're neither mad scientist rats nor dinosaurs riding dinosaurs.

    So it is still hard to be sure.

    It could also have to do with RP issues. Let's say you play Empire. You can ally with the good factions, you can attempt to ally with the bad factions or just stay on your side and grow.

    Now let's think of Chaos warriors faction. You are a horde, your goal is to destroy pretty much everything. You cannot ally, but rather only subjugate Norsca. You simply cannot role-play Chaos faction because their goal any way you put it is complete destruction.

    Tzeech, Nurgle, whichever Chaos god you want to pick, all are evil and all would be similar. Even elven-wise, to some degree there is major differences.
    Well lore-wise the chaos undivided forces are a example of a temporary alliance between the gods.
  • Vanilla_GorillaVanilla_Gorilla Registered Users Posts: 20,534

    KronusX said:

    In this case I have a better idea so everyone is satisfied. Game 3 should have Sun Elves, Winter elves, Chaos elves and Halfling elves. All types of elves for every need, I don't see why anyone would disagree with it :D.

    I kind of want to see a Halflings Elf now....

    Joke aside four of any one type of race makes for a bad core. With game 3 monogods there would be 6 or 5 Chaos races. It's a lot, and because it means a severe lack of good races they prevent themselves from shining or standing out.
    Where is the problem? CA gave us Norsca, an evil race.
    CA gave us Vampire Coast, another evil race.
    CA gave us Tomb Kings, a neutral race.

    These 3 races are all top sellers basing on Steam, regardless they are not good races. The opinions of 4 or 5 users in this forum =/= all the Total War: Warhammer players.
    And i can't see why having Monogods would be a problem for the future good races. The 3 race/campaign packs are 2 evil and 1 neutral. 2 of them are undead. Is the game dead because of this?
    Nothing stops CA to add a lot of good races in the future. Surely the Monogods won't stop them to do that.
    We have still 2 DLC and they might be all good races.
    Yes, we've had 2 undead DLC in a row and people are complaining. Imagine if it was nothing but Chaos, ick.

    Game 3 only has 2 real options (excluding DoW) for good races, that is Kislev and Cathay. Norsca was a pre-order DLC, so it's not fair whatsoever to claim it on its own sold well because it didn't.

    Monogods could be done as DLC, but as cores they're just boring.
    A bunch of biased people =/= Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings being global top sellers.
    Same with Chaos. A bunch of biased people =/= every single player in the world.
    CA listen the world. Not a small group of people. Vampire Coast and Norsca proved it. CA follow the success of the game, not 5 biased users, unless these users will pay the same amount of money of millions of players.

    Everyone here is biased, it's how opinion works.

    Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings are undead races, not chaos Races. If CA follow your logic then game 3 will be all about the undead, because according to you those have done well, while obviously Chaos is the least popular of all types of race.

    That's not my logic though. My logic is simple; the most played races of game 1 and 2 are the Empire and the High Elves. Human or human looking good races. The least played of these two are the evil races. Therefore game 3 needs a mix. Without that it relies on the idea that the least played type of race is on its own enough to hold up an entire game. I find that illogical.

    Tomb Kings are also a neutral race, which would back my point that game 3 needs a mix of races good and evil.
    I already told you that this popularity stuff is pointless. Good races are the most played and yet millions of people didn't care about having evil races, in fact Norsca, Tomb Kings and Coast are top sellers regardless they are not good races.

    The mixed races in Warhammer 3 is fine with me, but saying nobody will buy a game with mostly evil races and undead, like Monogods, is wrong. Coast, Norsca, Coast are global top sellers and they are not good races.
    Saying they won't sell is blatantly false.
    Millions? Please show a source showing any one of those DLC's sold "millions".

    People will buy an all evil game, but logic twlls us less will than if it were as the first two mixed. We know this because evil races are the least played races, and among evil races Chaos races are the least played.
    Malakai is the best choice for a Dwarf LP. Give us Slayer lords so we may form a Slayer host and revel in our destruction!
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 5,868
    This sounds frigging weird.
  • NyxilisNyxilis Registered Users Posts: 3,883

    KronusX said:

    In this case I have a better idea so everyone is satisfied. Game 3 should have Sun Elves, Winter elves, Chaos elves and Halfling elves. All types of elves for every need, I don't see why anyone would disagree with it :D.

    I kind of want to see a Halflings Elf now....

    Joke aside four of any one type of race makes for a bad core. With game 3 monogods there would be 6 or 5 Chaos races. It's a lot, and because it means a severe lack of good races they prevent themselves from shining or standing out.
    Where is the problem? CA gave us Norsca, an evil race.
    CA gave us Vampire Coast, another evil race.
    CA gave us Tomb Kings, a neutral race.

    These 3 races are all top sellers basing on Steam, regardless they are not good races. The opinions of 4 or 5 users in this forum =/= all the Total War: Warhammer players.
    And i can't see why having Monogods would be a problem for the future good races. The 3 race/campaign packs are 2 evil and 1 neutral. 2 of them are undead. Is the game dead because of this?
    Nothing stops CA to add a lot of good races in the future. Surely the Monogods won't stop them to do that.
    We have still 2 DLC and they might be all good races.
    Yes, we've had 2 undead DLC in a row and people are complaining. Imagine if it was nothing but Chaos, ick.

    Game 3 only has 2 real options (excluding DoW) for good races, that is Kislev and Cathay. Norsca was a pre-order DLC, so it's not fair whatsoever to claim it on its own sold well because it didn't.

    Monogods could be done as DLC, but as cores they're just boring.
    A minority, because in the end sales still ultimately ring in approval. And given you're someone that has used the point of which DLCs did or did not do well. It can't be argued that Vampire Coast didn't do well, it absolutely did. And TK just before it and Norsca is still the best received preorder.
  • Xenos7777Xenos7777 Registered Users Posts: 5,868

    KronusX said:

    In this case I have a better idea so everyone is satisfied. Game 3 should have Sun Elves, Winter elves, Chaos elves and Halfling elves. All types of elves for every need, I don't see why anyone would disagree with it :D.

    I kind of want to see a Halflings Elf now....

    Joke aside four of any one type of race makes for a bad core. With game 3 monogods there would be 6 or 5 Chaos races. It's a lot, and because it means a severe lack of good races they prevent themselves from shining or standing out.
    Where is the problem? CA gave us Norsca, an evil race.
    CA gave us Vampire Coast, another evil race.
    CA gave us Tomb Kings, a neutral race.

    These 3 races are all top sellers basing on Steam, regardless they are not good races. The opinions of 4 or 5 users in this forum =/= all the Total War: Warhammer players.
    And i can't see why having Monogods would be a problem for the future good races. The 3 race/campaign packs are 2 evil and 1 neutral. 2 of them are undead. Is the game dead because of this?
    Nothing stops CA to add a lot of good races in the future. Surely the Monogods won't stop them to do that.
    We have still 2 DLC and they might be all good races.
    Yes, we've had 2 undead DLC in a row and people are complaining. Imagine if it was nothing but Chaos, ick.

    Game 3 only has 2 real options (excluding DoW) for good races, that is Kislev and Cathay. Norsca was a pre-order DLC, so it's not fair whatsoever to claim it on its own sold well because it didn't.

    Monogods could be done as DLC, but as cores they're just boring.
    A bunch of biased people =/= Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings being global top sellers.
    Same with Chaos. A bunch of biased people =/= every single player in the world.
    CA listen the world. Not a small group of people. Vampire Coast and Norsca proved it. CA follow the success of the game, not 5 biased users, unless these users will pay the same amount of money of millions of players.

    Everyone here is biased, it's how opinion works.

    Vampire Coast and Tomb Kings are undead races, not chaos Races. If CA follow your logic then game 3 will be all about the undead, because according to you those have done well, while obviously Chaos is the least popular of all types of race.

    That's not my logic though. My logic is simple; the most played races of game 1 and 2 are the Empire and the High Elves. Human or human looking good races. The least played of these two are the evil races. Therefore game 3 needs a mix. Without that it relies on the idea that the least played type of race is on its own enough to hold up an entire game. I find that illogical.

    Tomb Kings are also a neutral race, which would back my point that game 3 needs a mix of races good and evil.
    I already told you that this popularity stuff is pointless. Good races are the most played and yet millions of people didn't care about having evil races, in fact Norsca, Tomb Kings and Coast are top sellers regardless they are not good races.

    The mixed races in Warhammer 3 is fine with me, but saying nobody will buy a game with mostly evil races and undead, like Monogods, is wrong. Coast, Norsca, Coast are global top sellers and they are not good races.
    Saying they won't sell is blatantly false.
    Millions? Please show a source showing any one of those DLC's sold "millions".

    People will buy an all evil game, but logic twlls us less will than if it were as the first two mixed. We know this because evil races are the least played races, and among evil races Chaos races are the least played.
    We're going on suppositions here. Right now, WH2 DLC races have been undead. That's basically the most ugly and inhuman thing in fantasy. Still, it seems they sold well enough. Actually Vampire Coast has accrued double the steam reviews of Queen & Crone in just a week.

    So my theory is that good, familiar, human-like races are the favorite of occasional and first-time players, while hardcore fans, which are the people buying the DLC, like weirder and more peculiar races. As the third game is mostly dedicated to hardcore fans of the series, I can see CA going with a full Chaos roster. It's surely possible and won't spell doom for the game. It's also a given the game will sell less than the other two in any case.
  • Omega_WarriorOmega_Warrior Registered Users Posts: 793
    Bringing the DLC up as an example is pointless. There are already order races in game 2 and most of the people buying these dlcs are people who already played order races and are moving on to other things. Not to mention that if they play these dlcs they are capable of fighting against the order races in the game.

    This is a far cry away from an entire game without any order races to play as or against.
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